INDUSTRIAL CONSCRIPTION

NZ Truth, Issue 685, 27 July 1918, Page 5

INDUSTRIAL CONSCRIPTION

LABOR DEPUTATION AND CABINET MINISTERS

Sofiiie Straight-froni-the-SfioiiJder Speaking

What is Meant by "National Service?"— " Not Compulsion but Co-operation " says Sir James Allen

The deputation appointed by the delegates attending the recent "Industrial Conscription" conference, to wait upon Cabinet, did so on Wednesday afternoon week. The following Ministers were present: The Acting-Prime Minister, Sir James Allen; the Hons. Sir William Fraser, Minister of Public Works; W. D. S. Mac Donald, Minister of Mines; W. H. Herries, Minister 6f Railways, and ActlngMlnister of Labor. The Hon. Q. W. Russell, Minister of Internal Affairs, came m when the apeeohifyinff was about half" through. Mr. j&mefl Roberts, secretary, Water* side Workers' Federation, was ths first speaker. Mr, Roberts tt&id the object of tha deputation was to lay befora Cabinet, the findings of the rooent Industrial Con*' aoriptlon Conference, First of all he wanted Cabinet to tell them what they meant by "national service" as contained m clause 25 of the Finance Act, or as the workers termed it, "THE INDUSTRIAL CONSCRIPTION CLAUSE"? , ff Conference represented 100,000" organised workers, and was unanimous m its opposition to clause 25. Would Cabinet plainly state what was meant by the words "national service"? To do so would clear the air considerably and show them exactly where they were. He wanted to place before Cabinet the reason why they were opposed to "national service" as the workers understood It; and they wanted to impress upon the Government that the putting of industrial conscription into operation would retard and not increase production. As they understood the clause, it meant that something was about to be done that materially affected the wage earners without their being consulted or their views and wishes considered. They could not see how the Government could compel workers to render efficient service except m that of their own choice. In the Old Country, since the beginning 1 of the war, organised Labor had been consulted on all proposed changes m the law affecting Industrial conditions. The Home Government had found that co-operation was preferable to, and more productive than, compulsion. It was said that Government intended j only to interfere m industries where there : was a shortage of labor. He contended ! that even at the present time wherever \ wageß were reasonable and the other conditions of labor fair, there was no shortaare of labor. The "skinning" employer, no doubt, had a shortage. That ; was to be expected and as it should be. | If the Government Intended to use the ! Act to shield that type of employer then he could assure Ministers that not only would organised Labor not assist, but that it ! WOULD ACTIVELY OPPOSE its efforts m that direction. Was that clause passed because there was not efficient or sufficient production m New Zealand? If so, all Labor could Bay was that the private controllers of industry had not managed their induotrles as they should be managed, and the Government should secure scientific and efficient management by handing the control of the industries over to those engaged therein. For the reasons he had given, Conference decided to oppose the introduction of national service, and he asked the Government to consider the Labor point of view before putting the clause into operation. From the North Cape to tho Bluff Labor i was opposed to "industrial conscription." They saw no reason for It. In Britain the greatest authorities condemned it. Jf it was not necesaary m Britain it cnrtainly could not be necessary m New Zealand. Mr. Adam Black (Engineers) contrasted I the treatment raeteO, out, and proposed to ba raated out to the workers, with the treatment, tlio farmers were receiving. ! The aim of tie regulations seemed to be to suppress UlO workers, while at the same time the ■/a.rroers were allowed to do as they pie&sed. Sir J. Allen; THAT IS ENTIRELY WRONG, and you must know it. Mr. Black: That is- the opinion of the workers throughout New Zealand. Sir J. Allen: I am quite sure it is not. Mr. Black (warmly): It is the opinion that the Government is seeking to penalise Labor for certain acts which when committed by farmers are taken no notice of. The farmers are allowed to do what they like with their land; th,ey can grow what -wheat they like; they car. adopt a "go slow" policy, but they are not punished. The farmers, with the aid of the Government have been fattening on the blood and tears of the workers at Home. They have demanded and received the highest prices for their commodities. Labor cannot do so. The facts published by the Government itself defied contradiction of the statement. : Mr. Black went on to say that returned ! soldiers were being exploited "all over the place." When a returned man sought a job, the first question asked was: "What pension have you?" If the applicant said 30s, the employer said, "Well, I will make that up to £3 a week." The Government stood aside and allowed that i to go on. The employing class could ; carry on the "go slow" policy to its fuH T est, and there was no penalty for them, but LABOR WOULD BE GAOLED for doing it. Labor had certain suggestions to make for the scientific organisation of industi'y, but Government would not adopt them because such meant an end to private employers exploiting the people. Sir J. Allen: ' Let us have your proposals and we will consider them. Mr. Black handed Sir James a printed copy of the suggestions drafted by the conference. Continuing, he said, the workers saw the seriousness of the position as plainly as the Government did. Labor was prepared to do its share, if Cabinet was prepared to stop exploitation and see that evory man jjot justice. If the Government did that he did not think there would be much opposition from Labor. Mr. J. G. Bruce, secretary, Wellington J Waterside Workers, said what the deputation wanted to know was what were the definite intentions of Cabinet? He wanted a clear definition of clause 25. lie confessed the workers were suspicious of it, and with good" reason. They feared that it hid something that might be launched at any moment to their hurt. The message he had' to deliver from the conference was: "If 'national servlco m anything on the line 3we believe it will be, AYE ARE GOING TO FIGHT IT; we are prepared to resist it by all the force at our command." That is a)). I .can.. (stiyj eon n lh,e .matter until we hear what nyoullsrfjr* I „...,, . ri , Vf'sri-'iMsV-' ■ zlihteif J^f Elston,, v qrgan,ise'r,., A.S,#,,,?aid , the ■'H'dmejGoy.ei'injment; at the., very,, p.ut.set ; .of-.' .the •< iwtir, ,]]{!s taken ' jopganised . Laboi; . into its conftcjejieje,', a^d Representatives , of Labor we»e.-..ito !f ti>.e.r<?iib / in J e,t. -.Here, the-. Government, flvadj.n'qt,; sought . the. assist-. -ance- of- La-bqiy'iYMr.">;,Mapsey and Sir, •Joseph Ward had promised that every section of Labor interested would l?e consulted before the regulations were brought down. ■ Sh- J. Allen: "No regulations have been brought down." Mr. Roberts: What about the JugoSlavs? Enemy subjects have been brought into industries where British subjects «re .working, and are competing against them. Hiv James Allen In -reply said, the National Government had not ignored Labor ever since the war began. When the National Government was formed an invitation was offered to Labor to join the Cabinet. Was this an invitation to Labor to take part m the government of the country or not? Mr. Roberts: Not direct.

Sir James Allen: 1 can't imagine anything more direct. Mr. Roberts: Labor members only represent the electors m their constituencies. What we want is that the direct representatives of the industries affected shall be consulted before the regulations are promulgated. Sir James said that would be done. The Government is at all times anxious to have the CO-OPBRATION AND ADVICE OF LABOR. He could not agree that national servloa as defined m the Aot msanfc anything liko Industrial oensortptlon, N&tion&l service meant that when the nation wan • m peril U who right that every individual should render servloo to tha nation. The clauses m the Bill were not intended to apply to Labor alone, but to everybody. The intention of the Act was to put the Government, into the position of being able, if necessary; to organise industry m such manner as to give effect to their desires. He reminded the deputation of the promise made by the Prime Minister m the House that before any regulations were made a conference would be convened of representatives of Labor and employers with representatives of the Government. It would be for the conference to go fully into the proposals of the Government. Mr. Roberts: That hasn't been done. Sir James: It has not been done because the regulations have not even been considered by the Government. At present the Government had nothing concrete' to put before such a conference. The Government had brought down some regulations to deal with the Jugo-Slavs, but these regulations had been made under clause 25 of the Finance Act only because there was no other legislation under which the regulations could be made. But these regulations to deal with Jugo-Slavs had nothing to do with national service. These men were alien enemies. These aliens had been dealt with to protect our own people, to prevent them from exploiting, the gumfields, and so to save these gumfields for our own men. He had never dreamt that the making of these regulations concerning Jugo-Slavs would be declared to be a breach of the promise made by the Prime Minister that Labor would be consulted. He knew quite well that one of the troubles of the past and the present was that there was A GREAT DEAL OF SUSPICION between Capital and Labor on both sides. He would ask that m the interests of our country the members of the deputation would do all they could to remove this suspicion, and to make it possible for employer and employee to come together m the interests of their country. He had valued very much the loyalty of the Labor people of New Zealand. The Act was not put on the Statute Book to deal with labor only. It applied to employer, the owner of factory or workshop, and everybody if necessary. He was aware that it was impossible to get satisfactory work out of men who were compelled to work. The Government wanted the willing work of men anxious to help their nation m the time of its need. The Government is aiming not at compulsion, but at co-operation. But the Government must recognise that employers as well as workers had certain, rights. It was suggested that farmers were allowed to do as they liked. The Government had done its best to get the farmer to grow wheat, but he would ask the deputation, who were objecting to the compulsion of labor, whether thoy would compel the farmer to grow wheat? The farmer was not allowed to "go nlow." If a farmer grew moat instead of wheat THAT WAS NOT GOING SLOW. Hon. Mr. Mac Donald said he supposed he was expected to say something m regard to the Government's treatment of the farmers. He assured the deputation that the farmers had been given no privilege ■which had been denied to others. They had asked the fanners to put jn as much wheat as they could, and tho farmers had done> 30. Two hundred and nin«ty-so-ven thousand acres of wheat had. been put m, which was more than sufficient to yield the necessary supplies .In a normal season, but the season had 'not been favorable and thousands of acres of that wheat never germinated. Ho had himself put m wheat, and lost heavily. He admitted there were shirkers among the farmers, but they were few, and steps were being taken to deal with them. Farmers could not go on meeting losses. They- had their mortgages •to meet, and they could- not be blamed if they gave up wh&at-growlng for something that promised a more certain return. The Government had no intention of oppressing Labor or of dealing unfair with any section of the people. ! Hon. G. W. Russell claimed that he was "just as good" a representative of Labor as those gentlemen who called themselves Labor members. He declared that the genesis of the objectional clause was really to enable the Government to keep up the fullest production on tho land. Many farmers had retired, and many had gone to the front. The Government wanted to be able to say to the retired farmers: "You must go back and work on the land until the time of stress passes." It had been said that the Cabinet favored the farmers, but he believed that if the farmers could sell their produce on an open market they would get much more than they were getting. The Government was opposed to the EXPLOITATION OF RETURNED ' rioLDIERS. In the Government service every returned soldier had the full wage for the work done irrespective of the amount of his pension. Mr. Roberts said, rightly or wrongly, tho workers were suspicious. Sir James Allen: Tell them that they need not be. Mr. Roberts: They would not believe, Sir James. Continuing, he said that the question of the Jugo-Slavs was introduced because this clause had been used to compel them to work. That matter had been explained, and the regulations applied only to ali^n enemies. Mr. J. G. Bruce asked if they were definitely to understand that no action would be taken by the Government m regard to enforcing national service until a conference had been held and Labor cdnsulted. xi „ • x ' Sir James Allen emphatically repeated the promise to consult the representatives of Labor before anything was clone. After the regulations were drafted they would have to run the gauntlet r.f the House, and if the House turned them down that would be an end to it. • ! 'The deputation -'their -vvithdi-ewJ > '■• ' '" ' J'- ■■'■•■ CL—.---- 1 '' 11 if " J " % 'i J " r! ; ' ■■ v ' vi