MORE LABOUR ATTACKS

New Zealand Times, Volume LIII, Issue 12504, 21 July 1926, Page 9

MORE LABOUR ATTACKS

PARLIAMENT IN SESSION

IMMIGRATION POLICY AGAIN BEFORE THE HOU&

MINISTER REPLIES TO THE CHARGES OF THE CRITICS

For several hours yesterday New Zealand’s immigration system was again under fi in the House of Representatives. Labour provided most of the criticism, and in the evening the Hon. W. Nosworthy, Minister for Immigration, replied at length to the critics.

In speaking upon the adjournment motion to print the report of the Department of Immigration, Mr H. G. Dickie j (Paten) said the Government was doing all possible in the matter, but he agreed that closer scrutiny should be exercised upon the nominators. If the nominator was not known to the authorities in the Did Country, an electoral roll was consulted; but this conveyed very little information indeed. The medical examine- i tioii, however, was more rigid in its ex-1 actness than that for admission to the * Army during the war. He was con- i vinced of the failure of the group*B3'B-l tem and quoted the example of Australia, where the system had been inaugurated in 1922 and abandoned in j 1923.. In July of Inst year a Royal Comj mission had recommended an ultimate abandonment of the idea rather than i revival. His personal experience had been that the group settlers had—through I bad team spirit and insufficient inem-} ■hers—created such.a load upon the land j j that they were forced to leave. j I Air D. G. Sullivan (Avon) condemned • the nomination system as a farce and urged an up-to-date cable service to the High Commissioner's office at Home so that applicants for passage to this country could secure accurate information as j to the conditions prevailing in New Zea- • | land. Although the misrepresentation was not deliberate, there certainly was I misrepresentation in England, and the' I result was many broken-hearted migI rants who were not faced with the real position till they arrived here and found themselves thrown upon their own resources. FEW FAILURES Mr D. Jones (Ellesmere) assured the House that the Labour Party was not the only with the working man. When speaking comparatively, 1 there were few complaints of hardship from migrants to New Zealand. In and around the cities there would always be a number of those who had never done any good for themselves at Home; nor would do any good anywhere else. Mr W. E. Parry (Auckland Central): That is not fair. Mr Jones claimed that were it not for unemployment and immigration the Labour Party would be bankrupt for material for criticism. Was the Labour .Party prepared to define its immigration policy? Nothing would be found in Hansard this session setting out the Labour Policy. What their criticism amounted to now was that the Home people could starve where they were. Tliey (the I Labour Party) wanted plenty here. Mr Parry: That's funny; that's clever. Mr Jones: Look at the hon. member; he does not look as if he was starving; look at his condition. Mr Speaker: Order, order. Mr Jones: I'm 6oTfy, Sir, I'm sorry. Ho withdrew the interjection. Mr Jones, pnrsuing his said that the member for Patea had spoken to four hundred newly arrived immigrants, and had asked them to - write to him if they had anything to complaiu of. He received only one letter, and that was from a man who went down to Wellington and got work after he had been there two days. Mr Jones added that many of the immigrants had had to get loans from the Government to pay their passages, showing that they i were penniless when they left Home. ■ Yet of the large number wjio had received such loans under five per cent. ! only had failed to pay the first in6tal- \ ment on those loans. That was a cleAr i indication that there was no difficulty i in their getting work here. He knew i that in the cities a class congregated | who had never done any good at Home, and would never do any good anywhere, but they were a small .percentage. BETTER CONDITIONS In any immigration policy they could j never expect to get 100 per cent, of success. There must be some failures, and the fact remained that some 50,000 immigrants had come from tho bad conditions prevailing at Home to our' own bright and beautiful country, and ninety per cent, of them were happy prosperous and contented to-day. Not only had we these people here, but their families were growing up amongst us under conditions that it would bo impossible for them to obtain in the old land. His father and mother had come out as immigrants in the early days like others who # were pleased to put up with the conditions then prevailing, as had the bulk of the mothers and fathers of those who were in the House to-day. Had they not come here their children would not have been in the positions in which they were today. As public men it was their duty to-day to do whrt they could to relieve tho congestion that prevailed in the J Mother Country, and not to carp and criticise. He charged the Labour Party with criticising the system, in order to make party capital out of it. If it had not been for the unemployment and tht immigration question the Labour Party would be bankrupt in so far as criticism was concerned. The only other thing they could talk about was socialism, and they knew they could not talk about that to-day They dare not do it. The member for Grey Lynn had made an outcry about, girls in domestic service,. and had endeavoured to make out that it was as bad as being criminals. Why, said Mr .Tones, our wives aro not afraid of domestic service He did not think the servant girls would thank the' hon. member for those remarks. The only a illustration the Labour Party could give in that connection was that some of the girls who had come out to do domestic service hero preferred to go into offices. Mr Armstrong: You've been away looking at cows all the time. Mr Jones said the Government party had done a signal service to the country with their immigration policy, and I they had performed a much greater scrvicn to the Old Country in getting 45,000 or 50,000 immigrants of our own kindred to come to New Zealand. I am, he concluded, careless of tho criticisms of the Labour party, which is prepared to condemn root and branch the good work that had been done. j LABOUR’S POLICY ! Mr H. E. Holland, Leader of the Opj position, complained that the member for Eilorsmere could not refrain from delivering a tirade of abuse at the mem* (hers of tho Labour Party, and did not 'leven possess the courtesy to refer to the ! party by its proper name. The m6m- ! hers of the Opposition were concerned [about Uie maintenance of the high stan- ‘ jdnrd of debate in Die House, and did not 'approve of descending to personal, abuse las to the appearance of the individual 1 members In fnct. during the three (years in which Mr Jones had been out of the House, the standard of debate had been sufficiently high to be proud of. Had he read the newspapers, Mr 1 Jones would bo well-informed concern!ing tho attitude of the Labour Party ‘on immigrnrio.i. ft favoured a property organised system, but specified that I this was to be preceded by a definite housing policy sufficient to absorb the :existing population, and n national injouiry into the trades and occupations. ] if the Government would attack the i housing problem and regulate tho flow -of immigration to the country, it would

have the co-operation of the Labour Party. The present policy had not only increased the housing shortage, but was a direct attack on the living conditions of the people. Whatever the member for Ellesmere may know about the Meat Board, he certainly knew nothing about current politics. The inflow of people from Europe to Great Britain was greater than the outflow to the Dominions. So that even if the Dominion took its annual ten thousand, it was not going to relieve the conditions in the Old Country.

Mr Jones: It is less ten thousand. ' Mr Holland considered that this country could carry ten miLlions of people if properly organised. Any State assisted scheme, however, must nrovide sufficient houses and must not displace our own j workers. Mr Jones: You put up an impossible proposition. i Mr Holland: No reasonable-minded | member of the House would object to a properly organised system of migration, or to a good system of housing in proportion to tho increase of population whether it is natural or by immigration.

Mr Holland denied that the group system of settlement had failed in Australia. Mr H, G. Dickie: Why don't they go on with it, then? k Mr Holland: They are going on with it. They are bringing more families out all the time. He wished to guard very carefully against anything that would create bitterness or tend to antagonise the workers from Home and those in the coun- ; try. “THE SOFT PEDAL”

Mr J. A. Nash (Palmerston) considered that any abuse which might have been heard in the House bad come from tho Labour benches rather than from the member for Ellesmere's speech, which he thought moderate. It had been the home truths which had hurt the Laboui member* *!'•

time when the Leader of the Opposition had stated that he was prepared to carry the banner of a revolutionary Socialist. Labour members: Shame! Go on.

Why did he not still do so? asked Mr Nash. Simply because it did not suit him to do 60. The Labour Partv had been trying, to put on the soft pedal, and now that they held the position of the official Opposition they were supposedly holding over their Socialist views till a better season. Just "because a member of the House had dared to stand up and say what he thought of tho Labour Party's attitude towards immigration, he had received a tirade of abuse from the Leader of the Opposition. Who had bsen responsible for the disgruntled ones who had come to New Zealand? None but the Labour Party. WOMEN OUT OF WORK Mr H. G R. Mason (Eden) said that in Auckland som6 'hundreds of women were unemployed, and in a matter like this there was nothing heroic in putting the blind eye to the telescope. Many of the unemployed women were immigrants. There was a list of 209 unemployed women in Auckland, and 50 of them were domestics.

Mr W. J. Jordan (Manakau) was the last speaker prior to the Minister getting his opportunity to reply to all the criticism which had been levelled at himself, his department, and the immigration system. Remarking that he would like to give Mr Nosworthy a chance to answer his critics, Mr Jordan resumed his seat three minutes before the time for the tea adjournment. Perhaps he thought that the effect of this strategy would be to cut Mr Noswortby's time down to three minutes, but the Minister said straight away that he had decided to take the full time allowed him for replying, and that he would continue his speech on another occasion, or on other occasions, till he completed all he considered it necessary to say. In the little time at his disposal Mr Nosworthy said that for six or seven years he presided over the Department of Agriculture Mr Fraser: Too long. Mr Nosworthy: Very profitable, though, for the country. Mr Nosworthy went on to say that during that time there had been some periods of fair prospertiy for the producer, and there had been seasons when there had been so little unemployment that it had been hardly worth mentioning. During those years he had not had the pleasure of leceiving from the members on the Opposition benches, especially those of the Socialistic Labour Party, one token of recognition of anything that had been done in the way of immigration. Unfortunately for this Dominion at the present time, through the fall in the prices of primary products, we had a fair amount of unemployment. ... , At this stage the Minister's speech was interrupted by the arrival of the tea adjournment. HAD TO LOOK AHEAD

When the House met in the evening, Mr Nosworthy obtained leave to finish his reply. He said that the Government had been subject to criticism for years on account of its immigration policy, but it was not reaponeible for the fall in the prices of primary produce, which resulted in the slight disarrangement of things which resulted in the cutting down of expenditure. He would Like to point out that it was not an easy thing to put th© 4 lid on the arrangements for bringing out immigrants, as had been suggested by some members. Tho department had to look a long way ahead in making these arrangements. There had been difficulties to contend against. The shipping Btrike bad upset arrangements, and thousands of people who had been ready to leave the Old Country -had had to wait. It only a fair thing that as soon as shipping became available the Government should keep its undertaking with these people. The Minister said he had heard a lot of criticism of the policy of nomination. He did not believe there was a better policy in the world, and this was indicated by the fact that the Australians were seeking full information regarding it with a view, probably, to adopting it. No credit was due to him for tho nomination system; Sir Francis Bell bad initiated it. New Zealand could not bring thousands of people out here and not expect to have a few failures. No Government in the world had taken greater precautions respecting its immigrants, and he had Opposition members speak well of tho fine type of settler tnat was being brought out. Masters of vessels by which the immigrants had travelled had spoken in similar strain. If there were a few odd cases that did not come up to expectations, it was not a fair thing to blame the Government: Those whq criticised tho Government must remember that we lost about 20,000 valuable lives during the war, and another 10,000 during the epidemic, and in five or six years we had-only brought in 50,000 or 60,000 men and -women from overseas* • ■ •

WILL NOT EASE OFF The question had been asked in the House as to the precautions which were taken to advise the High Commissioner's Office of the conditions obtaining in this country from time to time. Every month the High Commissioner was advised by cable. But even if things did nut look too good for the time being, the department could not suddenly cut down. Mr Veitch: Do you propose to ease of? Mr Nosworthy; I don't. The Government is going on the same lines right to the end. Mr Fraser: I hope the end will be soon. Mr Nosworthy: The end will not be soon. He added that it was not a bit of good shuffling because there was criticism. Tho Government had set out on a course of action which they hoped to be right and justified. So far the policy had been justified twenty times over. Mr Sullivan had said in the House that the High Commissioner had had to make inquiries from the electoral rolls to find out who the nominators were. That was not correct; there was not a case in which all particulars about the nominator were sent to the High Commissioner’s Office, and that office had to hunt for nothing. No one left the Old Country before the nominator was approved by the Minister for Immigration, and as the Minister he took full responsibility for all the people who came out under the 6ystem. RED UNDERCLOTHING no sC^era © of immigration could they have everything perfect. In regard to the Labour Party's statements about unemployed females he mentioned the tact that the other day a hundred femaie immigrants, who arrived, were all placed by the department, and dispatched to their destinations without any trouble. Ho objected to the magnification of a tew paltry complaints by the members of tho Labour Party. Ho did not mind entmism, .but he objected to unfair and underground criticism. A Labour member: It got you all right. Mr Nosworthy: It did not get me at all I am quite aware that tho hon. gentleman (the Leader of the Opposition) and the hon gentlemen who sit around him have on certain garments, which if they were turned inside out would show that their undergarments were red generally. (Laughter.) The garb over them is there only with the intention of alluring the people Mr Holland : Is it not a fact that you have got an overcoat with a red lining? Mr Nosworthy: I’ll be all the warmer then—especially if I go to the same place where I may have to go with the lion, gentleman. (Laughter.) Mr Nosworthy fcaid lie was the last man that was looking for kudos for anything lie did, and he was always willing to deal with any case of hardship whoever might bring it under . his notice. Neither he nor his department had any red tape about them, and he would say to the Leader of the Labour Party that his, Mr Nosworthy’s party, had just as high motives as the hon. gentleman and his party, and that they were in no way using the immigration policy to bring down the price of labour. They wanted to see everyone in this country fully occupied. The Leader of the Opposition had 690 of the immigrants in his own district, and no doubt they were all good supporters of bis. Mr Holland: I hope they are. Labour, Hear, hears. A Labour member: They are good Labour voters

Mr Nosworthy: At present they are, but with a little better knowledge of the Labour Party there is every possibility of their becoming all supporters of the Party. Then we will have such a majority in this House that I don't know where we will find room for them. INDIVIDUAL CASES .The Minister went on to deal with certain individual cases that had been mentioned by members of the Opposition. Referring to a man cited by Mr Parry as one who should never have been admitted by reason of his poor health, Mr Nosworthy said that this immigrant had not been assisted by the New Zealand Government, but had come out as an Im-perial-ex-service man. It was not fair to blame the Minister for his arrival. Mr Parry: He was nominated by his son. Mr Fraser: The Government has an arrangement with the Imperial Government, which was responsible for him. Mr Nosworthy: Well, we have done what we could. The non member has said that he was lame, halt, and a physical wreck. The official report shows thai he weighed 12 stone 131 b, and was sft 4in in height, and that there was nothing to indicate disability. He had been given a free passage under the Oversea Settlement scheme, because he was over 50, and could not receive any assistance under the nomination scheme. DOMESTIC SERVANTS Passing on to the case of domestic servants, the Minister said that a domestic receiving 30s a week was much better off than a shop girl at £2. Mr Bartram had alluded to a case which had been much discussed before and since the House met. The Minister had gone to some trouble to have tho departmental files searched in order to get at the facts Tho young woman in question had landed at Wellington from the Paparoa, September 26th, 1922, and reached Auckland two days later. The following day the department obtained a domestic position for her through a registry office. She remained in it two days, and then left, saying that the work was too hard for her. The real reason apparently was that she had two friends, shop assistants, who persuaded her that she would be better off in a shop. She obtained employment of that class on October sth, and had been in constant work ever since. On Mr Bartrom's advice she at first declined to refund her passage money to the department, but she was now observing her obligations. She had been offered two domestic positions and had declined both. Mr Holland: What was the difference in wagese? GIRL ADVISED NOT TO KEEP CONTRACT The Minister replied that he had already given his views on that point. Criticism of this sort, he said, forced Kim to reply A statement had been made deliberately in the Houso that the girl had been two months in the country before work- was found for her, and that then she had only J£l in her pocket. She had been nominated as a domestic, and was under an obligation to repay her passage money. She had deliberately left domestic employment because shop work suited her better, and she had said that she did not care to work for the ladies of Bemuora at the wage she was receiving. Wlint she thought about the Indies of Remuera did not matter. A contract was a contract, and should be carried out. To make matters worse, Mr Bartram had written and advised her not to keep her contract with the department. Was it right that a member of Parliament should recommend • anybody to ignore the directions of a public official, who was only doing the duty imposed on him by statute? He ventured to say it was the last thing that a member should do. The Minister intimated that he was going to read tho letter, hut on searching his papers found that he had not got it. He concluded by saying that the Government intended to go on with its nolicy of bringing out to New Zealand the best class of AngloSaxon people.

Mr Bartram rose to a point of order. "I have been grossly misrepresented. I will not say wilfully,” ho remarked with great emphasis. It appeared that Mr Bartram'a explanation consisted of a statement by tho Minister that the girl had been two months out of work, whereas Mr Bartram had given the period as five weeks. The member added that the girl said she had gone to the registry office on her own account, aud not at the instance of tlie department. He hoped at some Inter date the Minister would read his letter.