LEGISLATURE IN SESSION

New Zealand Times, Volume LII, Issue 12250, 23 September 1925, Page 8

LEGISLATURE IN SESSION

SEVERAL MEASURES BEFORE THE HOUSE

DISCUSSION ON COUNTIES AMENDMENT

SOME LIVELY INTERCHANGES

During the discussion in Committee on the Counties Amendment Bill in the House yesterday several members objected to the power proposed to be given to county councils which desired to unite with another county council. Mr H. Poland (Ohinemuri) said cne county of three could act without the sanction of the other two in petitioning for a union. Mr S. G. Smith (Taranaki) objected to the proposed peisonnel of the Commission, in the hands of which would be placed the decision as to a union of counties. In some districts there was evidence that there were too many county councils, but he wished that, if an amalgamation were proposed, the Commissioners should bo competent to aqt. The Minister for Internal Affairs (Hon. R. F. Bollard) said the counties conference had adopted the principle by a big majority. Mr T. W. Rhodes (Thames) said the passage of the bill would impose a hardship upon small councils which, could not fight their own cause. He favoured securing the individual opinions of the various counties. It was not correct to. name tho personnel of the Commission in the bill.The Minister for Justice (Hon. Sir James Fan*) explained that one council could not necessarily secure a commission. "It only starts the ball rolling/* he said, "and before it has Tolled very far a petition will have to be presented to the Governor-General." Mr W. S. Glenn (Rangitikei) expressed himself as well satisfied with the bill as filling a b long felt want, but sought an explanation of what was proposed in respect to the imprest account. PLEA FOR RIDINGS **lt seems that the ratepayers are not going to be consulted when an amalgamation is proposed/' said Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne),' who went on to say that there were too many county councils in New Zealand, and with the extensive operations of the Main Highways Board, the necessity for amalgamation would be more frequent than hitherto. Mr Lysnar contended that the only solution of the more scattered counties was to retain their separate riding accounts, and objected strenuously •to tho proposed deletion of this provision. "The back districts; will be cut right, out/’ he said, "and will be subject to whatever rates the other members think fit." The Hon. J. A. Hanan (Invercargill) welcomed the bill as a move to restrict local government, and said that It could hardly be, claimed to be desirable to continue with so many local bodies when some of them' spent up to 60 per cent, of their revenue in management.. The Prime Minister: I don't think that is so, ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS The Hon. Mr Hanan: There are many counties which 6pend anything up to 60 per cent, of their revenue in management. The Prime Minister: No: no. The Hon. Mr Hanan charged the Government with failing to redeem its pledges to restrict local body government in # New Zealand* "I object to the assertion that the Government has not carried ■>' out its pledges," said the Prime-Ministler, on rising to reply to Mr Hanan, "but that is the constant cry of the hon. member. There has been more local body.reform during this Government's office than during the past 20 years." Mr Hanan : Prove it! The Prime Minister: We have brought in the Main Highways Act, and amended the Municipal Corporations Act, all of which had a direct and beneficial effect uporf every local body in New Zealand. This has enabled them to expand and become more self-reliant. Mr Hanan: Look to your statutes of 1910. CROSS FIRS A lively interchange of interjections took place at this stage, the . Prime Minister striving vainly to make himself heard above Mr Hanan's battery of comment and questions. When the chairman of committees had restored order, the Prime Minister refuted the implication that the Government had increased the local bodies, and also denied that any county council had expended 60 per cent, of its revenue in administration. t "There is not one figure which has been issued for public use in respect to county council administration that could be called correct, because some local bodies put in maintenance, some machinery cost, and some interest. Mr Hanan: Ask your department for figures. The Prime Minister: I have no need. I know the figures. They run from 4 per cent or 5 per cent, up to 18 per cent, or 20 per cent. When you know the cost of administration, it strikes you that the figures must be wrong. COUNTIES TOO SMALL "My basis is that undoubtedly ; many of our counties are far too small for economical administration; and if we are going to place, more upon them they must make themselves large enough -to carry good administrative offices. But mein-

ber* need have no fear about this bill. It comes from the counties themselves, and has been discussed for years. There has been a change of opinion by local bodies themselves that some ready means should be provided to make them larger. "After all it is only a resolution of one county that is provided for towards setting up a Commission." Mr J. Corrigan (Patea): Why do you object to representatives from each county? The Prime Minister: Then you would have a biassed commission. Mr Corrigan: There would be two independent representatives besides. The Prime Minister: The whole thing is in the open and above hoard. v Mr W. D. Lysnar: Well, why not give the ratepayers a say ? INDIFFERENT RATEPAYERS The Prime Minister: Because half of them do not take any interest. Besides, they are represented by the councillors. The aim is to place councillors in a position to represent the whole county and not only individual ridings. The riding is doing more harm than good, if the total is considered. The effect is that each riding is treated as a county instead of as part of a county. Mr Lysnar: Quite right, too. The Prime Minister: Now. when the councillors rise to speak, they will 6peak for the county and not for the riding. Mr E. ( A. Ransom (Pahiatua) asked the maximum figure spent by counties on administration. ' The Prime Minister: About 20 per cen t. Mr Ransom: I have it from a county chairman that some go to 40 per cent. The amendments made in committee provided for relief of the hard-and-fast rule under which imprest account had to be kept at the bank at which the county fund was kept. It may now be kept in the Post Office Savings Bank, or any other bank. In a case where one person is operating on the imprest account, a maximum of ,£75 is fixed. A new clause provides that fpr the purpose of purchasing certain cattle dip, a council mayw bj especial order, raise a special loan*under the Local Bodies' Loans Act, 1913, without taking the steps prescribed by the Act. A division was taken on a new clause moved by Mr J. H. Nash (Palmerston North)i with a view to making approaches to bridges safer, and was inserted by 34 votes to 30. The Minister opposed the clause. The Minister then moved to report progress. The voting * was equal, and the chairman gave his casting vote in favour of reporting progress. CHATTELSTRANSFER In moving in the House yesterday that the Chattels Transfer Amendment Bill be committed, the Minister for Justice (Sir C. J. Parr)*-said the measure was one amending the bill of last vear, made necessary by the Crown Law Office. In committee on the bill, the Minister explained that a new principle had been adopted in the method of amending existing laws. Whereas in the past the amendments to provious Acts would ho printed as a separate statute, the new departure—section 5 of the bill under discussion—provided for a reprint of the original Act and the amendment in one statute. This was really a consolidation of the statute. Mr F. Langstone (Waimarino): Does that apply to all Acts? Tho Minister: No. The principle is to be tried out on this measure, ana if it is found to be successful, the AttorneyGeneral hopes to widen the scope to other Acts. The bill was passed. DISTRICT COURTS ABOLITION The Minister for Justice, in moving to have the. District Courts Abolition Bill committed, stated that it was in reality. a measure to provide machinery for the completion of the bill passed in 1909 for the abolition of the district courts. The county courts would not be interfered with in any way. The bill was passed. LAND TRANSFER The Minister for Justice (Sir C. J. Parr) jnoved to have the Land Transfer Amendment Bill committed, and in explanation of the clauses stated that one of the amending passages - provided for the completion of the title within a certain date, for it was found that at the present time there were piles of documents which were held up through being subject to requisition. Clause Jof the bill provided, in the cases of long leases, for the endorsements to be made on a separate document, for in the case of a 99 years' lease there might be many transfers. The other important amendment allowed for the destruction of useless duplicate instruments, which were found to pile up and occupy a great deal of space unnecessarily. The bill was passed. MAIN *HIGH WAYS

The Main Highways Bill was read a second time.