MEAT AND SKIPPING

New Zealand Times, Volume XLVI, Issue 10509, 10 February 1920, Page 7

MEAT AND SKIPPING

WHAT IS THE POSITION WHEN COMMANDEER ENDS IN JUNE? MR BEAUCHAMP'S INTERVIEWS IN "N.Z. TIMES." A deputation (Messrs J. Porrett, W. J. Poison, H.. Atkinson, Hugli Ackers, and Linklatcr) representing a meeting of Manawatu farmers, waited upon the Prime Minister yesterday morning to lay 'before hiin their views with reference to the position in regard to meat and shipping that will arise on tho termination of the meat commandeer at the end of Juno next. Tho Hon. D. H. Guthrie (member for the district) introduced tho deputation. Dr. Roakes, Director of tho Agricultural Department, was also present.

A SERIOUS POSITION: MEAT SHOULD BE CLEARED.

Mr Perrett said that the deputation had been appointed by a large and representative meeting of upwards ot iOO farmers, held in Feilding on Thursday last, to present to the Prime Minister tho resolutions passed at the meeting. Tho first resolution was: "That this meeting calls upon tho New Zealand Government to urge on the British Government tho serious position which will arise in tho Dominion with the lifting of the requisition of meat, and to impress upon the Imperial Government the necessity of clearing all meat from the New Zealand stores at the end of the contract, or of continuing tho purchase until such time as the meat can oe cleared, also to announce its policy at the earliest possible moment, and te state how it will meet the position which will arise on Juno 30th." Mr Massey asked whether the deputation wanted anything more than the policy, he had outlined in his recent letter to Sir James Wilson, -president of the Board of Agriculture? Mr Perrett said that it. seemed to them that the statement did not cover what they wanted. The farmers could see that the freezing stores were filling up fast; and they could see unless something was done, on June 80th next, they would all be practically full. The meat was coming into store very much faster than it was going out. Mr Massey: Is not that the usual thing at this time of year? Mr Perrett: Yes; but we started with a keaw load in store, and we are prevented from cutting' up the carcases. . . ■ ,u Mr Massey: Has it not been the general thing during the war to have a heavy load in store at the beginning of the year? Mr Perrett: Yes; but we want some arrangement made with tho Imperial Government to have the meat lifted before the beginning of tho nest season. They looked upon it, he added, ns a very "serious matter. If the com--panies had a tremendous amount of meat in store—and they thought tho companies would have at least four million carcases in store at the end of December nest—it would seriously hamper the operations of the companies in every way. The companies would not 'ho able to come out a«d operate in any way, because they would not have any sound basis to go upon, nor any idea -when the stores would be cleared. If thev went to the banks and asked for an advance when they did not know when they would be able to kill and ship the meat, the advances allowed would bo very small; and the companies would then throw the onus on the farmer. FOUR MILLION CARCASES INSTORE. Mr Massey: That is all on the basis of the four million carcases in store. Mr Perrett: Yes, and tihe amount- of shipping available. It' they threw the onus on the farmer, he said, taking his meat, freezing, and storing it,_ he would have to finance the business, which would throw the farmer in this country into a very serious position, a lot of the farmers had' had to pay extreme prices for land, and unless the cash was forthcoming at tho time it would be a serious thing for the whole community. Ah- Massey: These things have all been foreseen. Only I do not agree with your estimate as to tho amount of meat that will be in store. Mr Perrett said that the uncertainty of the position was having a detrimental effect to-day even ui>on their stock sales, because they did not know exactly where thev were. They had not soon any statement from the Prime Minister so far that any arrangement had been made with the Imperial Government in regard to shipping when the commandeer came to an end.

Air Massey: How long is it since th» Imperial Government announced that they were going to bring tho commnndeer to an end?

Mr Perrett: About a fortnight; but we ought to have been doing something before.

Mr Massey: You did not, but I did,

Mr Perrett: But we don't know what you have done, and wc want to know. There was another matter with regard to the commandeer, he- continued. They understood that the meat was accumulating both at Home and here; and they understood that there was a guarantee of a certain price up to a certain time to the farmers at Home. _ They did not take any great exception to that, ibufc they did think that during the war they had sold their stuff at a very reasonable rate, and they had been pleased to do so. Now, however, it was . a matter of business, and they desired that arrangements should be made to have all the Imperial meat lifted. Mr Massey: That has all been done, IER BEIATJOHAMP'S INTERVIEWS IN "NEW ZEALAND TIMES." Mr Porrett stated that in an interview in the "Now Zealand Times" M.r Harold Boauchamp had supported their estimate of the amount of mea<t that would remain in store by the end of the year. I Air Massey: That has been replied to by the chairman of the Tonnage Committee. Mr Porrett: But Mr Beauohamp has replied to him in this morning's ' 'Times." Mr Massey said that ho questioned only the estimate of the amount of meat that would be in store. So fatas the hanking side of it was concerned, Mr Boauchamp was right, because the security of banking was very much better when tho commandeer was on. Mr Poison, lie added,, tells us not to £o nap on ships. Mr Poison: What is the s;ood of hav-

ing the meat shipped, if they have nowhore to freeze it at tho other end? Mr Perrett urged that the meat that had been accumulated should be got rid of, even a* a lower price if necessary. Wo would soon regain our position; but it was important to be on a atablo lasis oven if it was a lower one. Reading from tho morning's "Times' Mr Massoy said that Mr Beauchamp had estimated that there would bo six million 60-pound carcases in store hero and in Great Britain and iu transit at tho end of Juno, and that "All of this (meat) will have to bo sold by tho Imperial Government before the meat purchased by the companies in this country can bo transported and marketed, for preference will bo given to the Im-perially-owned meat in the carnage toy tho shipping companies." To tin's Mr James Findlay (tho chairman of the New Zealand .Ship-owners' Committee) had roplied: "This committee would, however, point out that in the preference of otherwise of tho carriage of Imperial Government meat it will necessarily be governed by instructions from tho Imperial Government, which up to this point has given l no indication as to its intention in the matter." And the comment of Mr Beauchamp on that was: "It is, of course, only right that expression should be given to the views of the shipping committee, but personally, I think it more probable that preference, as heretofore, will bo accorded ito tho Imperial Government in the carriage of meat purchased by it.'' Mr Poison: Was it necessary for the Imperial Government to give any other indication of its intention than the terms of the commandeer? Mr Massey: The commandeer does nafa sny that all Imperial meat must be lifted'before any of our meaffc is shipped. Jlr Poison: That was hocw we understood it, at any rate. Mr Beauchamp says it is more probable that preference of carriage will be given to the Imperial Government meat as heretofore. Mr Massey: Thero has been no preference given to Imperial meat heretofore. His estimate, he continued, was that at the end of December there •vould be two million carcases of moat in store in New -Zealand; and he thought they would find the Imperial Govemment'reasonable enough to allow tho two businesses to dovetail, so that they • would allow our meat to go out at the same time as their own. Mr Poison said that the Farmers' Union had made that suggestion, In fact., it was his own suggestion. Mr Massey: Yes, groat minds think alike.

Mr Poison said thf>t it was a serious matter, and he had not come to he sneered at. . Mr Massey replied that he had intended no sneer at all. He recognised that it was a serious matter: and he claimed that ha had done his best all along in regard to the commandeer. As he had alreadv stated, ho believed that by tho time it came to an end some £150,000,000 would have passed through "our hands." COMMISSION FOR ENGLAND. Mr Perrett said that tho remaining resolution was—" That this meeting urges upon tho Government tho advisability of sending to England at tho earliest possible date the Commission as at present constituted, namely, Dr .Reakes, Mr Poison, Mr H. Burrell, and Mr D. Jones, M.P., for the purpose of assisting the Government .to solve the question of the disposal of our meat." Tho names suggested had been submitted to the Government some time ago; and ao far as they knew nothing more had been done about it. If Mr Massey was not satisfied with the composition of tho Commission, they were prepared to alter it; but they thought a Commission should be sent.

Mr Massey said that his feeling was that the Commission should be sheeted or nominated by a representative meeting of farmers, and the Government would then do tho rest. He had made it public at the _ time that he would send a Commission Home, but he had heard nothing further rrom tho farmers' organisations about it. It was understood that the commission cc*tld not go till the New Year, as Mr Jones had a-crop of wheat to get in; and since Mr Jones had been elected to Parliament and Mr Poison had had an accident from which he had not yet quite recovered. Dr. Roakes, too, head of the Agricultural Department, had been extremely busy. Dr. Reakes was ono of the most useful men tho Government had here; and while ho (Mr Massey) would put no difficulties in the way of his going with tho Commission, ho would be very sorry for him to go away. Mr Perrett said that the resolution was just an expression of opinion from the meeting, and they could only leave it at that. They thought that some Commission should be sent Home; and that if it were, the Government should t>ay tho expenses of it. Mr Massey: I have said before, and tay so now, that the expenses should not be allowed to stand in the way. Mr Perrett: Then that dispenses of the whole matter. If, he added, a subscription was raised to pay the expenses, then, as usual, ono or two would pav the whole lot. That was why they" held that it ought to came out of the Consolidated Fund. They wero not asking for any favours, but just for a olear field. Ha took iv tha< if they had a clear field, they oould maintain tho exports of this country on tho same pinnacle as they were today, and in years to coma put thorn Btill higher. But they must have a clear field to do that.

Mr Ackers, president of the Mann. watu A. and P. Association, said that they wanted to knowwhether the commission was to ho sent Home. If so, when; and, if not, why »ot. fhoy knew that Dr. Roakes was • very busy man, but the consensus of opinion among them was that ho should go if at all possible. Mr Atkinson said that be opok© as a representative of other interests beside« the direct farming interests. He understood that the Commission chosen to go Homo had been accepted by tho Prime Minister. Ho did not know where they stood now; but ho understood that the Prime Minister thought that the Commission proposed was not sufficiently representative.

Mr Mnssey eafd ho thought that tho representations made to him as to tho Commission ought to ha to been endorsed (by a. fully representative meeting of farmers. He had had letters from different parts of the DominionAuckland, Otago. Taranalrt, Hawkes Bay, etc.—asking where they came in; and statinp; that both tho meeting to choose it and tho Commission chosen were not sufficiently representative. Mr Atkinson said that in that case it wax just an -well thoy hud com© to clear tho matter up. Tho meetings at Palmcrston and Fending had been hold to find out what had been done, and what the meetings felt was that a Commission ought to go Home—whether the pro-out Commission or another. It was now late in February. Mr Massey: Tt is only February Dili—not very late yet. Mr Atkinson s;.id that i,f they would move'now in Auckland and the foi'Ui thoy might get something done. Tho

feeling of tho meeting was that something should bo done, so that representaitivos of the producers and of the Government could meet the- heads of the department in Britain as soon as possible and consult with them as to what* was to bo done, to lift the moat as speedily as possible so that ttocy would not got both quantities of meat, thrown on itiie market at once. They must discuss the best way of getting rid of all this surplus meat, and prevent it being jammed on to a market which was apparently already full. .Was the British Government, with that six million carcases, to have the preference, and wero wo to take -a back seat ?

Mr Linklater hoped that Mr Massey would bo able to satisfy the uneasy feeling that had arisen among the farmers in regard to the mnttiter. Mr Poison said that it did not matter who constituted the commission, so long as tho matter was taken in hand by mon who knew what they were talking about. It was no good sending any other sort of commission Home. Mr Massey: There is no difference of opinion about that anyway. Mr Poison explained that the commission was appointed by the Dominion Conference of the Sheep-owners' Federation and the Dominion Conference of the Farmers' Union meeting in Welling- ' ton during last session. Their representatives on tho commission wero Mr Jones and himself. With Mr Hugh Burrell ho had seen Mr Massey about it. and he thought thait they had then done all they could in the matter, and that whatever should bo dono * filter that would be done officially .by the Dominion organisations. Mr Massoy said that ho had had no official communication on the matter. Something was said at tho time about Mr Jones having a crop to clear and Dr Reakes being very busy, and the matter then dropped. _ Mr Poison said -that it was that if the commandeer was not to be extended, the commission should go at once. ... Mr Massey. But we did not know till this month "that it was not to be extend ed-

Mr Poison said that ho did not intend to blame the Prime Minister on account of the officers on whom he was dependent. Mr Massey protested that he had the most loyal and enthusiastic lot of officers in the world. Thov wore not to blame.

Mr Poison stated that they had had indications, that the commandeer was about to cease. And when it was to cease in Juno next., the position became appalling; because, unless and until they made some arrangements about the lifting of tho meat, their finance as farmers would be seriously jeopardised next December. What finance would a bank give to a farmer who said he had so much meat, but did not knpw when ho was going to get it shipped or what ho was going -to get (for it? Ho contended that ships wore not the crux of the matter at all. What was the good of sending shiploads of meat Homo to ibe held up in tho ships at the other end "because they were unable to get the frozen .meat into cold storage. Ships had ibeen held up six or seven weeks in that wav.

Mr Massey: How long has that Decn the case?

Mr Poison: I am In a position to provo that it has been so tor six months.

Mr Massey: And I am in a position to prove that it is not so. Mr Poison: That (Shows tihere is all the more need for a Commission to go Home. Tho people at Home, he said, were consuming 33 per cent, less meat than .before the war. That was from on official statement by Mr McCurdy (Parliamentary Secretary te the Minister for Food), and therefore they were net getting rid of the meat so quickly. Moreover Home-grown meat had been stimulated, and we' had a more serious competitor in tho Argentine. Tho South American producers had fresh meat as against ours two years in store, and that was doing us a lot of damage as compared with tho Argentine. I'ROME MINISTER IN REPLY.

Mr Massey said that he had been very glad to hear what they had to say"; and he had agreed with one of the speakers that that' meeting would clear the atmosphere. Tho more the matter was discussed and debated the better ho liked it. He was willing to meet any body of farmers in Wellington or elsewhere and thresh it all out, and would be very, very glad to hear their views. He had had something to do with setting up the Royal commandeer in March, 1915, but had to drop it when the British Government wanted him to go Home. In the meantime, however, he had been able to establish a front line department which had worked enthusiastically in regard to the commandeer. He* was sure that they would always look back upon the work of tho commandeer with a great deal of satisfaction ; and that tho producers would look back on it with a great deal of regret when it was over. Mr MoCurdy 6aid that arrangements have now been made for dealing with tho greater number of cargoes now coming forward 'without any serious delay in regard to tho discharge, of Av-tralasian liners. The present large ir . orfcations were due to the release oi largo quantities of meat in Australasia, and would not last long. ' Mr Massey added that tho British Government had promised him more, ships for March, but he had already had word that because of delays at Home some of thorn would be held over till April. Mr Poison: Is there any truth in tho report that a number of them had been diverted to Australia, for wheat?

Mr Massoy did not think so, but ho regretted that ho had hod to divert somo of them to get ooal. Coal we must have. A MASS OF CORRESPONDENCE.

He exhibited a Parliamentary report of correspondence he had .had with, tho High Commissioner and others in regard to the commandeer and shipping. That big report, he said, contained only a part of it. As long ago as November 11th, 1918, he had telegraphed as follows to the Secretary of State for tiio Colonies:—"Deputation of representative meat- producers urg? strongly that in view of enormous quantities of meat now in cold storage in New Zealand, it is desirable that present arrangement with regard to Imperial meat requisition should bo continued for another year from Juno 30th after the signing of Peace so as to give producers and freezing companies in Mew Zealand a fair start after the Imperial- meat has been delivered. Tho Government of New Zealand supports this representation, and will be glad if His Majesty's Government will afford favourable consideration thereto." And ho followed this up with the following telegram to the High Commissioner on the 21st of tho same month :—"November 21st. Meat. Anxious to know whether you havo been able to make arrangements with Imperial Government for taking output for period of one year nJler declaration of Peace. Telegraph reply." END OF COMMANDEER. • Then on January 12th last he telegraphed to the High Commissioner: —

"With reference to your telegram of January 7th, meat: Present position causing serious anxiety to producers throughout New Zealand and in. consequence I must ask you to press Board of Trade for decision on© way or another, but in case the Imperial authorities not willing to renew requisition for 12 months hope you will be able to arrange so that wo can carry on until end of present year as this should enaiblo stores to be cleared and give New Zealand a fair start at the" beginning of nest year." To this the- High Commissioner replied on January 21st: — '•Kxtension of meat contract. With reference to your telegram of January lath, Board of Trade replies that His Majesty's Government has decided not to enter into any contracts for purchase of moat after Juno 30th, 1920."

Three days later he cabled the High Commissioner:—''With reference to your telegram of January 21st: in view of fact that Imperial Government has decided not to enter into any contracts for purchase of meat after Jun* 30th next, shall be glad if you will press Imperial Government to extend present contract for six months, or at least three months, in order to clear as far as possible Imperial meat out of cold storage in New Zealand before now season's moat comes in. Secondly, as the period referred to is the off season there would he practically no increase in the number of car' eases up to December Ist. Thirdly, special efforts should also he mado to ensure the supply oi shipping that will be necessary during this period." CONGESTION AT HOME. With roference to the congestion of meat at Home, ho cabled on the 4th inst. to tho Secretary of State for the Colonics as under:—Frozen Meat.—My Ministers view with grave concern information recoived to the effect that all meat stores in the United Kingdom are at present time very full, and that many insulated steamers with full cargoes are lying idle in Unit«d Kingdom. •ports awaiting discharge. They point out that the stores throughout the Dominion at present contain approximately five million sixty-pound carcase*, and it is estimated that the remainder of the period of requisition will .produce another five million eixty-pound carcases. My Ministers would bo . glad to be advised oi' the steps which will be taken by His Majesty's Government to reduce the congestion, which, it is uu* derstood, oxists In .the stores in the United Kingdom, to enable a clearance of the Dominion's meat to be made prior to the commencement of the new season in November next. They urge the -necessity for prompt action to avoid a most serious position arising throughout the Dominion with attendant financial difficulties ood great loea to producers." This was following up a. telegram sent to tho High Commissioner on January ,26th last:—"Frozen M<;at.—Uneasiness is apparent throughout the Dominion at reports current that considerable congestion exist* in the cool storage ehambera in the United Kingdom and that some ore filled with non-perishable goods, and T am requested to remind Imperial Government that New Zealand farmers consider it is their duo Imperial Government should protect their interests by clearing sufficient storage to enable regular trading operate under favourable conditions as soon as possible after termination of requisition stop I. should bo glad of fullest information possible of the present position and the prospects clearance ot stocks before next killing. season commencing November next." That, he claimed, showed that he had done his very best in the matter; Mr Massey added that he had himself suggested the lowering of the price of meat at Homo so as to increase the consumption. Mr Poison: It should be lowered again. POOLING SCHEME REJECTED. Mr Massey said that he had several times ha.d to differ vrith the meat' control at Home. One of his speeches on the subject had never yet been published, owing to the objections of tho British authorities. He had been asked to accept a. pooling arrangement for bringing in a large quantity of American meat at a very high price and pooling it. with ours so as to 1 make up the loss on tho American meat. He oad absolutely refused to accept it; buit, in.«spite of Jus refusal, it mignt have been carried out. He could not say. He exSlained that when ho said that tiwo milon carcases would be in store in Decern! er, ho meant in December nest. Tho figure he gave for December last was ,four millions.

Mr Poison said that the figures had not been mixed tip. But he held that the official figures were always too optimistic. Mr Massey: But what does Mr McOurdy say? Mr Poison: He is another politician. Mr Massey, quoting official figures, dealt with on a previous occasion, again maintained that itho number of carcases left in store in December nest would bo two millions. NEW ZEALAND AND THE ARGENTINE. Ho noticed that a Vanganui gentleman recently returned from the Old Country was reported as having said that tho stores there were full of Argentine meat. That implied! that tho Imperial Government was Still purchasing Argentine meat; hut on November £6th last the Secretary of State for the Colonies cabled to the Governor-General as follows: —"With reference to your Government's telegram 'to the High Commissioner for Now Zealand. April Ist: I have 'tho honour to inform your Excellency tha.t the Board of Trade are very anxious that your Ministers should understand that it is doubtful whether His Majesty's Government will he prepared to enter into any now contract for purchase of Now Zealand meat. The position is similar' with regard to the purchase of meaifc from Australia, and from South. American packers. Last contract with >the la.tt<?r expired on September 28th last." Although that telegram was marked "oonfiden(fcial," at the time of its receipt, tbo information had since been made public. 'Unas did not mean that Argentine meat was not going into England, because they had tho ships and England never shut her doors to any foodstuffs from anywhere. Tho Wanganui gentleman had added that England was sending three times as many ships ito tho Argentine as to Australasia, but tho official figures showed that for tho ts»n months ending October 31st last, while all South America (including Brazil) sent 4J million hundredweights of meat to Britain. New, Zealand sent 2.136,000 ewts, Australia 1,049,000, and North

America (including Canada), 825.000. That was not tvico as much from South America* as from Australasia; 'and they nlust remember that vessels could make two trips to South America for one here. WARNED AGAINST HEAT TRUST.

Tho Imperial Government had not controlled Now Zealand meat, as had been stated. It had purchased our moat, and all wo had to do was to put tho meat on board in Rood condition, ana there ivas an end to it. We had sont away not less than 25 million carcases, under tho commandeer, and ho was afraid wo should miss it when it was ended. They must remember that there was plenty of opposition to Now Zealand meat in tho British market, from tho British producers, and others; and not least from the American Meat Trust, which undoubtedly was out to control tho meat trade of the world, and they were' doing all they could to control the importation of into Britain. They knew what a very good thing that would bo for them. Ho believed there was an organised movement on foot to cause friction between the Dominion producers on the one side and tho Imperial authorities on the other, with a view to the Meat Trust getting a footing in Britain. Ho said that as a, result of what ho saw in Britain and after seeing tho cablegrams that had appeared in the papers hero. Ho hoped that the people of Now Zealand would never allow themselves to he put into tho power of the Meat Trust, which, from the report of the Commission that had been sitting in the United States for so many years, ha believed would control flie American Government, Instead of the Government controlling the Trust. Tho trusts wero trying to get a footing in New Zealand, working under other names, and it was almost impossible to get at them on that account. One was working a little under its own naano, Armour and Co. He strongly warned the meat producers that they must see to it, when the meat commandeer came to an end, that their meat went to England. There was no market in the East. The only real market on the Continent of Europe at the present time was France; and it could not be a big market till the trench law protecting their own producers was altered. There was a market in America.; but if they sold to America—except to Canada, where the Trust was not so strong—they were really sellhig to the Meat Trust; and all t'hey sold to America would thus help the Moat Trust to strengthen its grip on tho markets both at Home and here. PREPARE©. TO SEND COMMISSION

.Referring to the Commission to be sent Homo, ho said that Dr Reakes could not bo spared for another month, at all events. But if a fully representative .meeting of farmers selected a Commission the Government would accept it and be prtpared to pay the cost of sending it J-lome. If the Dominion executive appointed a Commission that would be good enough for him.

[Some telegraphic and local details in' connection with the ending of the commanded and the "glut'' of meat at Home appear on pages 6 and 7 of this issue ]