PARLIAMENT

New Zealand Times, Volume XLII, Issue 9721, 25 July 1917, Page 6

PARLIAMENT

YESTERDAY’S SITTING HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ADDRESS-IN.-EEPLY DEBATE. The Speaker (Sir P. W. Lang) took the chair at 2-JO p.m. A,THIRD READING. Tho Wanganui Church Acre Amendment Bill, introduced by Mr Veitoh iWanganui), was read a and passed. WAIEOA HARBOUR BILL.

Sir John Findlay gave notice of his intention to antrodnee the Wairoa Harbour Board Endowment Bill. IRRITATING TAXES.

The debate on the Addresa-ia-Reply was resumed by Mr Vernon H. Reed (Bav of Islands). He said that the excess profits tax was an irritating and unfair measure. Another mistake of the Government was the butter-fat levy ahich had unjustly penalised dairy farmers. The Prime Minister might not. be aware of the fact that many farmers were in a precarious position in regard to the shortage of shipping and other difficulties fronting them aufiiig the coming season. Unless/ these difficulties were removed disaster faced many farmers. He was in favour of an export - and import tax. It would have been a masterstroke if the Dominion had had these taxes just after war broke out. Mr Payne (Grey Lynn): “It would have been a masterstroke if we had had a graduated tax.” \The problem of placing returned sol-’ diors on the land had not been given deep onpugh consideration as yet. Land boards were not capable of dealing with this matter. Boards of patriotic farmers were wanted aR over the Dominion to deal with the cases. Mr Eoed pointed out that if the soldiers took up highly priced land there would not bo much prospectof such land advancing in value. If the TO Id id’s took up trash land the position would be different. SETTLERS , AND LAND SHARKS.

Mr Reed stated that there were large areas locked ur> in national endowment lands in the North of Auckland. The land was not being taken up because of 'the rottenness of the tenure. Settlers would not take ud bush land and under, go all the hardships incidental to breaking it up under the leasehold tenure. They would have to give, tho soldiers tho hope of the freehold if they were to bs settled on tho land.-. Mr J. Payne: "W© can do. a lot better than giving the national endowments away.” Air Reed: “If we don t giv© them the hope of tho freehold now we shall have to later.” iMr Payne: “And tho land sharks would see to it that they got tho freehold off the soldiers, too!" Mr Reed: “They must hold the land fob ten years first; and I would not mind having conditions put in under which no accumulations of land could take place." In North -Auckland /it, would cost only JC92O to - put soldiers on the land, as against a cost of -64870 per soldier-settler in Canterbury. To settle 15,000 soldiers in Canterbury would cost .£73,000,000, whereas in North Auckland .the. cost . would he -£13,000,000 only. As a business pro.position was it not better to settle tho soldiers on such bush land ns that of North Auckland and make that land productive, instead of nutting them on high-priced improved land? His experience was that 90 per cent, of•the soldiers would prefer to get the increased value of bush country. ' Again, native lands, on the route of a proposed railway, too, were being sold to persons who had been refused as members of the Expeditionary Forces because of their nationality or their sympathies. That was a shame. The Gov. eminent should take over that land for the returned soldiers. Preference should be given to soldier-settlers in respect of land opened up near their homes or former residences. 1 THE AIEAT TRUST.

The Government, he urged, ought to bring down legislation to prevent the American Meat Trust coining here, if it was not already here, and put ii out of business here if it was operating in New Zealand;. The sooner the Qov. eminent acted the better, otherwise they would find that the trust had got 'A very strong hold on the country. They should prohibit the investment of any outside capital in New Zealand freezing works; end also prevent the sale of fat stock in New Zealand, making each man freeze his own stock. He understood that agents, reported to be in the employment of the trust, were scouring the Manawatu right up to Taranaki, and bringing the cattle right down past the cooperative freezing works, so as to freeze them out. They must also control the shipping, and make an arrangement with the Home Government so that the country could be sure of its markets. The last, he thought, would be the final solution. Some arrangement, he .maintained, should be come to with Australia in regard to Customs. Since the war began Australia had put up the tariffs 50 per cent, against New Zealand. It was a pity that an arrangement had not been arrived, at in regard to the matter when an opportunity presented itself some time ago. WASTING TIME?

Mr G. W, Forbes (Hurunui) referred to comments ijiade regarding the length of the debate in progress. The debate was a most important one, and served the purpose of acquainting the Prime Minister and Sir Joseph vVard of the trend of public opinion in New Zealand during their absence. Time had not been wasted, but spent valuably. Mr. Forbes referred to the big problems discussed at the war conference and to the important question of Empire Government. Anything like close organisation in Empire affairs would- tend to cause irritation rather than conduce to smooth working of Empire affairs. Any steps taken in taxing the colonies in this respect would be deeply resented. by the people. The looser th© ties more endurable and stronger would the bonds be. '

Turning to New Zealand affairs Mr Forbes said that the smooth and satisfactory working of the Military Act was a tribute to the patriotism of the Dominion. In regard to the position of the Second Division he would strongly advise the Government to have- a round the tabic conference. They wanted tho Government to come down with legislation that had the approval of Parliament. The legislation in regard to the First Divirion had had to be recast, as the Government had not properly consulted Parliament about this. The Government had to take members into their confidence on this and other matters. If it did not then thev would be at* loggerheads in the House. They must have members’ opinions. Mr Massey; "How can you get this opinion?". Mi- Forbes: “You can get this opinion bv boldine a secret session. You want something that gets the opinion of the House. Last session yon found the House totally at variance with your views about the First Division." COMPULSORY SERVICE FOR WEALTH.

Since tho House met last year a radical change had come over public opinion. Compulsory service had taken the place of voluntaryism; and now that they had this compulsory service

tho people wanted to see a measure of compulsory service in regard to wealth —a measure of sacrifice that should not be so disproportionate to the sacrifice that tho men called up had to makc<Hear, hcar.i If a satisfactory Budget on such lines was not brought down it -would lead to a great deal of criticism and discussion. (Hear, hear.) He thought it only right that the Government should acquaint the members of the House with their ideas on taxation. He held that those over military age and those who were unfit should be required to make a sacrifice something like that made by the men who were eligible. (Hear, hear.) Equality of sacrifice had become, a hackneyed phrase. It was becoming a by-word, but they wanted it to be made a reality. (Hoar, hear.) Before the Budget came down, he contended, the Government should take members into their confidence. He had been speaking to many people, and they were looking for a, very drastic system of taxation. (Hear, hear.) Ho wanted to see, and the people, of the country wanted to see, every source of taxation exploited to the utmost. Mr Nosworthy: “Amusements and luxuries!"

Mr Forbes said that the people pointed to the enormous profits made by the primary producers, and they felt that that source of revenue should bear tho heaviest taxation, and that after that taxation should.fall .upon, tho ordinary revenues of the* people.

DRASTIC TAXATION DEMANDED. Ho was quite certain that if what came down in the Budget was not the most drastic system of taxation they had ever had in the country, or were ever likely to have, a great many people would bo Seriously disappointed. (Hear, hear.) The argument that it would dislocate trade had no force-at such a time; for it was held, when a man had to go into camp, that ;it did not matter that his trade would be dislocated. Ho lost the whole tiling; and the wealthy had no right to protest against being inconvenienced, as the men going into camp were being inconvenienced. (Hear, hear.) Mr Forbes quoted figures to show that the New Zealand taxation on big incomes was only one-half, in some cases only one-third, of that levied in Britain. At Home, also, they were setting out to pay one-third of the cost of the war out of revenue, and ho did not think that New Zealand should lag behind Britain in regard to. the contribution required from the wealth of tho country. (Hear, hear.) )It was their duty to see- that the sacrifice was made something like equal ;■ and it would be a great disappointment to the people of the country when the Budget came down if that was not- done. (Hear, hear.) The people saw the returns as to the big profits made by the primary producers. They saw the new motorcars, bought out;of these profits, on all the roads; and there was -no wonder that the workers were (Complaining about the cost of living and that those profits were not sufficiently taxed. ATTORNEY-GENERAL SPEAKS.

The Hon,. A. L.. Herdman followed. From the remarks of the last speaker, be said, one would think that the country was not being taxed at all. Ho could assure Mr Forbes that the Govern* ment would-not fail in properly- taxing those who' were making money out, ol the war. Some people were feeling the pinch already. The people of New Zealand bad net. felt the war ’as ot-hei countries had done; in fact New Zealand was the happiest country in tho world at the present time. (Hear, hear.) The people were prosperous, happy, money was rolling into the country, and there was-no unemployment.' The visit paid by Mr Massey and Sir Joseph AVard to England would be of great value to the Dominion not only now . but in the years to come. The war had revealed weaknesses in the Imperial system of Government. The Dominion should have some control in affairs beyond New Zealand. There were army /matters, navy matters, and many, other/important matters in which New Zealand should have some say. (Hear, hear.) AVhatever institution was to bg created to control the affairs of Umpire—he did not think there should be one Imperial Parliament, lording it over all—there should be no such ■ disfigurement as party strife in a constitution that was to decide pn peace and war. NATURALISATION.

There was the question of naturalisation. The effect of the Dominion's naturalisation regulations did not go beyond the Dominion tor instance. There should be one law of naturalisation throughout the British Empire. (Hear, hear-i He knew that there were thousands of aliens at liberty in England tods v. -

Air AVilford: "And carrying on business.” .

Air Herdman believed that the Domin ion had been stricter with aliens than the Homo authorities had been, immediately on the declaration of war every enemy alien' in the Empire Should have beau interned. A member: "Vein Zedlitz was not.'

Mr Herdman replied that there were some aliens at liberty in tho Old Conn, trv. There should have been Empire organisation in dealing with enemy firms. The imports from enemy firms to the Dominion had decreased enormously. .however, since the beginning of the war. and the small annual figure that now remained consisted only of goods that had been ordered before the war and .were arriving through other countries. Where in 1914 there was a total of J 91.125.967 of enemy goods imported this had gradually dwindled until to-dav there were no enemy, goods coming in. Concurrently the imports from the 'United States and Japan bad increased. WHAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS DONE. Criticism had been levelled at the National Government during the debate in progress. It was a blessing, however. that after the outbreak of war that the leaders of the two parties had decided to sink their differences. Any impartial judge must admit that the services rendered by the two leaders had been of inestimable value to tin. Dominion. . , -- Mr Herdman paid a tribute to Mr MacDonald on the manner in which ha had dealt with the huge task of commandeering the wool clip. He had to say that Mr MacDonald had cameo out this task very satisfactorily. Members: “He did well.” Tho Government must" be congratulated on the way in which it had dealt with the meat of the Dominion. Mr Payne: “Specially the price to the working man." Mr Herdman said he would come to this later. The Government had also regulated the price of cheese and butter, and had assured the Dominion, of a s'upoly of sugar at a moderate price. ORGANISATION. The Government had been accused of want of organisation. They had organised. It had set up Military Service Boards, Efficiency Boards, Boards of Advice, and other bodies. Would members say further that the Government should take over the whole of the labour of the Dominion and place it. under a law of compulsion? A member: “Yes,' it can be done.” Mr Herdman: “Do you. think the Government could say to a carpenter, sav, at Invercaigill, ‘¥ou must go to Auckland; work is short here’?" A member: “fou compel him to go to France.’ Another member: “You should organise the idle rich,” Mr Herdman: "Yes, that is true. And would you organise a portion of the labour?" A member: "Yes." Mr Herdman went on to say that there was no doubt but Second Division men would have to be sent to the front if there was need for men. Referring to the suggestion that the Government should institute technical schools for t!ie teaching of returned soldiers, the Minister said he would

not advise the Government to spend large sums of money in providing new institutions. There were many, technical schools all over the Dominion that would suit for this purpose. This was the course followed at Home. In conclusion Mr Herdman reminded the House that he had always been opposed to any person who, by word or action, had hampered the sending of men or supplies from New Zealand. Mr Payne: "There is such a thing as liberty and free speech in the British Constitution.”

Mr Herdman replied that when speech interfered with the sending of men to the front or with shipping it was a different matter.

Mr Herdman added that fortunately there was only a very ■ small section of the New Zealand public who showed a tendency to interfere with the important work of sending men to the front.

portant work of sending men to the front. Dr Thacker (Christchurch East) stronglv advocated that the men of the Main Body of the Expeditionary Force should be allowed to return to New Zealand on furlough. A number of officers had come back; and the men, he urged, had coual claims to a holiday. Uneensored letters showed . that those soldiers were tired, and that their dearest wish was home. He believed that the Minister for Defence was afraid to let the Main Bodv men come back to see what humbugs were in high military positions in the Dominion. The presence of our veteran fighters would he an inspiration to the country. The Minister tor Defence, he maintained, had failed to give a satisfactory account of the number of Hoops sent away from New Zealand. The Minister’s figures showed that the actual wastage to date uo.a death, disease, and wounds totalled some 18.000 in all. or 6000 per year. Yet they were sending away in reinforcements 29.000 a year, or enough to fill up the wastages for four years. Already 74,000 man had been sent away, and there were 9uOO now in camp, or 83,000 in all. The New Zealand Araiy consisted of 25,000 men. 10.000 hod been sent Home injured, and 7500 were dead, leaving a balance of 45.500: and were that huge balance of fit men it was useless for the Minister to talk*of the urgent need for reinforcements. If the Second Division men were sent away at the present rate New Zealand, would have its industries and its production stopped in eighteen months. The Minister, however, had indicated cliat the next reinforcements would not be sent away for two months. That showed that the Government had been doing some stock-taking. Were they funking sending away the Second Division. or were they coming round to com-mon-sense and reason? He could not say: but the next reinforcement's were not going for two months, and that two months would give the Government time to feel the temperature and the pulse of the people. He thought that a wise thing, because when they found out the feeling of the country, and how- the war was going on, and what America would do. they would come to reason in

regard to these matters. Another indication that they would get the Main Body men bock on furlough, and that the reinforcements would, be cut down was to bo found in the recent attitude of the Tory press. Dr Thacker advocated.a taxing system on the lines that the Government should tax all incomes over JJ3OO to the extent of 45 per cent. Ho drew the Government’s attention to the combines and associations in existence in New Zealand that helped to keep up the cost of living. i- In regard to the w r heat purchase he believed that the Board of Trade had had ait option over Australian wheat of 3» Sd to 4s per bushel. He would like a repori about this. In conclusion Dr Thacker] appealed to the Government to make proper provision for the looking after of the graves of soldiers who had fallen at. the front,/

Mr T. W. Rhodes (Thames) said that while he was a supporter of the National Government, ho recognised the right of every member to criticise anything in their action that he thought to be wrong. The Defence Minister’s own figures and the fact that out of the surplus men they had been able to create a special division, showed that their reinforcements were considerably more than ample to meet all wastages. It was a question for serious consideration whether they could not fulfil their obligations to - the fullest degree, and at the same time reduce for a time at least their monthly reinforcements. It had never yet been made clear exactly what were the obligations entered into by the Dominion in regard to the war. He contended that the allowances to the wives and children and other dependents ought to be materially increased. The House owed a solemn duty to the soldiers and their dependents, and that dnty should be performed, even if the cost ran into millions a year. (Hear, hear.) At 11 p.m. Mr Nosworthy moved the adjournment of the debate. The House rose at 11.5 p.m.