PARLIAMENT

New Zealand Times, Volume XLII, Issue 9717, 20 July 1917, Page 7

PARLIAMENT

YESTERDAY’S SITTING URIBE Of REPRESENTATIVES AOORESS-IN-REPLY DEBATE The House met at 2.30 P-m., the Speaker (the Hon. Sir F. W. Lang) in tiio chair. SIX O’CLOCK CLOSING. Petitions containing 430 names were presented far members asking for six o'clock closing. NEW BILLS. Mr It. A. Wright (Wellington Subnibsj Rare notice of his intention to ask leave ui introduce the Maori War Medal Bill. U/avo whs fiivon to Mr Wright to bring in lue following bills whica wove read a first lime and referred to the Jjocai Bills Committeeßorough of Knrori Empowering Bill, Wellington City Trading Departments .Reserves and Uenowa) Funds Bill. and the Bay’s Bay Sanitation and Water Supply Bill. Mr A. H. Hindmarsh gave notice to introduce the Shops and Offices Amendment Bill. T'HE REINFORCEMENTS PROBLEM. At 4.10 p.m. Mr K. McCallum (Wniraid resumed the debate on tne Adciress-m-Reply. lie regretted that the opener of tne debate had touched upon tnu question of the reinforcements that the country should send to the war- lor himself ho would only deal with it gingerly. He thought that, as individuals and as a House, they should support the Minister for Defence in sending all required reinforcements. He wouldl not say tnat itney snouid use such jingoistic language os sending the last maun and spending the last shilling, but he held that every man who was physically uc should be prepared to so and fight for his country. He regretted that the age had not been raised to 21 as he suggested last session: but, beyond the age, all men who were tit should be liable to go and be prepared to go. (Hear, hear.) He was sorry that they End not heard from the two Ministers who had visited the Old Country as to:—tl I Why the British Fleet had not blockaded Holland and Scandanavia and thus put an end to the submarine, menace; (2) why the coloured races of the Empire—Hindoos and Africans —had not been allowed to take a larger share in the war; and (3) as to the wastage of man-power at the (front. Livery commissioned officer—from the lieutenants upwards, he understood—had his sergeant-orderly to black his boots and so on; and some 500,000 men must be used up in that way. In many respects the way the Army was managed, was. he held, efiete and out of date, and should be no longer tolerated. (Hear, hear.) Then he would have liked to hoar more in regard to the cultivation of additional land at Home, so that the Old Country might more nearly feed itself. Surely, he said, some of those landowners who held their land in trust to defend the country in time of invasion, should contribute something towards that. His own forefathers had loft the country because they were forced out. unable to find land in Scotland. If ever there was a time for the British Government to take action, now was the time; and if they could not make every rood .of land maintain its man in England at the present time, they would fail for all time. (Hear, hear.) He urged that, while they must find all the money that was necessary for the war. that should not prevent the Government making adequate provision for public works. There should bo no hiatus in regard to such works. The hon. member, quoting from a Marlborough ' journal, proceeded to refer to the extravagance in regard to the equipment and working of the hospital ships, and regretted that the House had not been able to freely criticise, in regard to those matters, as the hospital ships were under the direct control of His Excellency the Governor-General. Sir James Allen (Minister for Defence) asked the Speaker whether the hon. member was entitled to comment on the action, of His Excellency, when the Minister Responsible was present. Mr Speaker ruled that the hon. membet was not in order in so commenting; and added that he had been going to call attention to the fact that the hon. member was also out of order in reading any comment from any paper on proceedings in the House. ~ , , , , Mr McCallum stated that ho rad waited for the Minister to intervene. He had expected him to do so; and he had acted as he did because he hoped that it would result in. the Minister making a statement to justify the expenditure on the hospital ships against charges of extravagance. BIG WAR, BONTTSES.

Referring to the grant by the House last session of .£400,000 for war bonuses to public servants with salaries up to .£3OO a year, he contended that the Minister had betrayed the confidence of the House by giving bonuses up to £2OO each to higher paid public servants receiving up to £IOOO a year. The Government had not treated the House fairly in so doing; and, in connection with a higher title recently Conferred lie contended that they were not justified in paying an increase to the highest paid official in the Dominion. (Hear, hoard , , Mr W. Nosworthy (Ashburton): Who are you referring to?" Mr McCallum: "I cannot mention him. but he is an official .whom wc all hold in the highest esteem.” It was not fair to the House, he maintained, that the Government should have given those large increases to the men with higher salaries: and he knew that lua feelings were shared by the great majority of the members of the House. For the War Cabinet to surreptitiously allot large sums of money in a way never intended by the majority of the House was wrong and improper. (Hear, hear.)

LAND FOR SOLDIERS. "The Government is being exploited in many quarters,” declared Mr MeCallum, "with reference to the Purchase of land for soldier-settlements. Many land-owners were anxious to use the needs of the Government to exploit returned soldiers. That was a deplorable attitude, and every member of the House should do his best to induce land-owners to part with their land at a reasonable price. He understood that 770,000 acres of bush land had been either purchased or set aside for the soldiers; that was not the sort of land they should be put on, but prepared land, as under the Land for Settlements Act. (Hear, hear.) In. that connection, he wanted to commend the action of Mr Whatman, Mr Percy McHardy. and one or two others —the list was all too short for what they had done in regard to providing land for soldiers. (Hear, hear.) He trusted that many of the wealthy land-owners svoiiul make it their care to help the soldiers, finance them into farms, and do their best for them. Those not able to go to fight should assist the returned soldiers all they could. (Hear, hear.) MR P. C. WEBB’S CASE. The hon. member contended that the member for Grey should either have had the full sentence that the other men had got for seditions utterances, or he should not have been punished at all. The gist of the matter was—-

had ho or had he not the. ‘ animu, furendi,” or malicious intent: 1 It not, he should not have been punished. The case reminded him of the Irish magistrate who said that, having heard tho law and the evidence, he would fine the accused £2- If ho was gurlty, it was a very low penalty; and, it not. it would teach him a lesson. (Laughter.) If ' guilty of utterance, a member of the House should be Punished juore, not less, than a non-mem-ber; and, if not guilty. he should- not be punished at all. (Hear, hear.) "A PATHETIC FALLACY.” Dealing with the six o’clock ciooing question. Mr McCallum declared that it was a pathetic fallacy that the introduction of prohibition wouMabsolutely reform the social conditions of tho country. (Hear, h®ar, and laughter.) The intolerant spirit that characterised the prohibitionist would bring about German methods in time. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) But he -would not say anything further on that line, he wanted to help tho National Cabinet. (Laughter.) If the members ot the prohibition party would have agreed to a compromise last session they could have got closing from 9 P- m - Y a.m. instead of 6 p-m. till 8 n.m., but they' would not. (Laughter.) He suggested that they should look upon the licensed victuallers of the country, not as a discreditable body, not to bo despised because of their occupation. (Laughter.) When the Government had decided to ent down racing by onethird, they had called upon the racing conferences to make the reduction; and ho suggested that they should take the licensed victuallers of the country into their confidence and tell them ("Oh! Oh!” and laughter.) They were respectable men and they had no light to treat them in that way. The Government should call them to a c°nterence in Wellington , and suggest that they should cut down their hours—(laughter)—and bring in some measure to cut down tho abuses of drinking in the country, which oven the moderate party agreed existed. (Daughter.) it they made every licensed victualler a policeman—(laughter)—and put him on nis honour to carry out the regulations, every decent man in the trade —-and ho contended that 90 per. cent, of them were decent men—would help the Government to carry them out. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) ~ ~ , In conclusion, Mr McCallum said that to commemorate the bravery of the New Zealand soldiers, the Government should empower every local body V° erect monuments to commemorate their deeds. This would instil into the future generations feelings of chivalry and bravery. THREE BIG PROBLEMS. Mr Scott (Central Otago) said the visit of the Prime Minister and Sir Joseph Ward to England had placed the Dominion on a better footing there than it ever had been before. The National Government had done good work, and while the war was on it would be absurd to put another Government in power. Three great problems faced the Dominion at the present time. The first was that of Seeping up the supply of men /for the front. The winning of the war was of first importance. Afs all /costs |men must be found for the war. If New Zealand went back on its pledge it would be in a worse state than Australia. In regard to the second problem, the productivity of the country, ho did not believe the country was in such a bad state as many members alleged. The third problem was that of taxation to meet the huge (liability incurred by the war. Some of tho taxation methods were unworkable. The excess profits tax was in many cases unjust. The tax Had failed lamentably in operation. The butter-fat tax was a most iniquitous one, and should be wiped off the statute book as soon as possible. Mr J. Vigor Brown (Napier) complimented the mover and seconder of the Addreas-in-Reply on having spoken for the required time on a Speech in which there was nothing to talk about. (Laughter.) There was no indication in the Speech of what the Government proposed to do either for the Second Division or for the First Division. It was a colourless Speech, almost cold-blooded. It was said that they had a National Government in power, but what had the Government done of a national character? (Hear, hear.) The farmers governed the House. A member: "Not the brewers!”

The House was practically ruled by the farmers. The farmers always growled when any tax on farmers was proposed. but did they ever hear the brewers protesting against taxation? (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Mr G. V. Pearce {Patea): "They do one thing in the House and the other outside of it.” (Hear, hear, and laughter.)

Mr Brown: "Ton have got the pick of Taranaki. (Laughter.) Tou have nothing to growl about. (Laughter.) The brewers don’t growl about taxation, but the farmers always growl.” (Hear, hear, and laughter.) That there was party in the National Government was shown by tho Tory side in the Government talking out the question Of the number of copies of "Hansard” that members should get. The Prime Minister must have seen that.

Mr Massey: “I wasn’t in the House.” Mr Brown: "Ton would see it in the ’Dominion.’ ”

Mr Massey: "But I never read Hie ‘Dominion.’ ” ("Oh, oh 1” and laughter.)

The Liberal element in the National Government were criticised bv the Tory element, but he never hoard the Tory element criticised by the Liberal element. (Hear, hear, and dissent.) Why were not the Tories true to the National Government? (Hear, hear.) Mr Brown urged that since the sovereign had decreased practically 5s in purchasing power, the widows' pensions, of about 10s a week, should be increased by 2s Gd a week. (Hear, hear.) Healing with the cost of living, he said that it had been stated in the House the other day that people were pacing Xo an acre rent for wheat land in Canterbury, and that thev were getting very little out of it. He did not wonder at that. It was the high rents and prices paid by the man who came in, not on the ground floor, but on the top floor, that prevented them getting any money. (Hoar, hear.) As to the unused land, he said that if the men would not farm the land, the Government should take it over and see to it. (Hear, hear.) That would solve the wheat problem, and others too. The Government should not buy meat on the hooks, but should take over the farms and the cattle, and farm the land for the people. (Hear, hear.) The Government wore not active enough. They did not see what was wanted. They did not see the feeling of the people of New Zealand. It was only when the elections came that they would see what that feeling was. (Hear, heal.) They kept everything steadily in view, or were going to look into it; and what was tho good of that? (Laughter.) DEFENCES MINISTER CRITICISED. Mr Witty (Riccarton) dealt in the main with Defence matters, as reported in another column. Regarding six o’clock closing, ho said that the hotels had not had a detrimental effect on the training of New Zealand soldiers. As far as the argument about the shortage of labour was concerned, there was plenty of labour if it were only properly looked for. Tho Government had hot done what it should for the returned soldiers. Tho boys who came back received a miserable pittance. He agreed with conscription, but why bad the Government only conscripted men? They bad to beg the farmer to grow wheat, "Why did thev not compel him to grow wheat? (Hear, hear.) Again, the Auditor-General had, in his report to the House, said he had had a great deal of trouble with small sums, such as amounts for small comforts for soldiers in hospital. Imagine a country like New Zealand worrying soldiers In hospital about the money for comforts.

Then when a soldier was in hospital his pay was stopped. Sir James: “It is not. It accumulates."

Mr Witty: "Anyhow, it does not come to them.”

Mr Witty continued that where the Government gave half a million war bonus to civil servants they would not give a "poor devil of a soldier” a square ileal. There was no doubt that there were civil servants who deserved a war bonus, yet there were well-to-do State employees who should not receive any bonus. The Government should have insured every soldier before they went to the front. ECONOMY'? Mr Witty criticised tho work of the Efficiency Board. They were supposed to see to economy, yet hundreds _of pounds had been spent in elaborate furnishings lor their rooms. He knew for a fact that the furnishings of one set of rooms in Christchurch for the Efficiency Board cost £501). No adequate provision had been made for the soldiers who were to come back after the war. The Government should pot allow any speculators to buy native lands until the soldiers had all returned. The taxing of tho Government was not equitable. Amusements, for instance, should have been taxed. lie would not have cut down racing, nor would he have cut down the race trains, but ho would havo taxed tho races and made people pay double for going out there. SOLID OPPOSITION WANTED. Mr Statham (Dunedin Central) said that what tho National Government lacked was a good solid Opposition. It they had had this many measures they hail passed would not have got through so easily. He congratulated tho Minister for Munitions on the excellent work of his department. He had gathered around him expert officers, and .altogether tho Government 'had been getting good value for their money. The work of Mr Russell had also been very satisfactory. Referring to the Minister for Defence, there was probably no Minister who had received more abuse than he had. , . , , Mr Payne; "Because he is so pig-head-ed.” Referring to the question of the strength of the reinforcements, Mr Statham said that while ho agreed New Zealand should fight to the I*®!" ?f aI J and the last shilling, he considered that if reinforcements were sent at the present rate the Second Division would be exhausted in a very short time. As to the cost of living the Government should have taken over the whole of the export trade. . ~ Mr Bayne: "That is impracticable they say.” ■ . , lrl Mr Statham: We want a bold policy.” (Hear, hear.) . ~. Tho Government should get rid of tne excess profits tax' and have the graduated income tax. In spite of the call for economy big waste was going on. A comprehensive scheme of texmg all luxuries was wanted. Cabinet wa-s qui competent to do this ; A restrictive ta. should be put on liquor. Amusements should also be taxed. . "A GENERAL AVERAGE.”

There were plenty of people, b ot> inaide the House and outside the House, said Mr Statham, who were in vary comifortabie ericumstences, and to whom the war had made practically no difference. Their standard of living had not been altered in the slightest. They wero tho people who ought to be taxed. (Hear hear.) Compare with their position the position of the widows and the aged, the sick and wounded soldiery and the soldiers’ dependents with their very inadequate pensions. While he recognißed that the income tax and land tax ei a form of conscription of wealth, he held that the time had come when a tax should be levied ,on the capital wealt of the Dominion. (Heal, hear.) Ten per cent, of the manhood of the country were going to the front, why not male alO per cent, levy on capital? (Hear, hear.) To take £IOOO from the man with £IO.OOO would not hurt him. (Heal, hear.) When a ship was salvaged the whole ship and the whole cargo had to bear their share of th© costs of salvage. Tttr Payne: general average. - Mi Statham: ''Yes; it is not anew principle. It is a general Why should not they adopt the Wintuple in regard to the wealth of the country and tho costs of the war ? (He , hoar.) y He hoped that there would be better feeling between capital labour after th© war. (Hear, hear.) But there could never be good feeling between the workers and those who were out to malic profits from the war. (Hear, hear ) He feared that that sort of thing would produce much ill-feeling. (Hear, hear.) OPPOSED TO SIX O’CLOCK CLOSING. Mr Statham stated that he was opposed to the agitation for six o'clock emsing, which he regarded as largely engineereu by the prohibitionists. . ‘Mr A. H. Harris (vVaitemata): Oh, nol” , Mr Statham said that at any rate they were taking every advantage of the movement. He did not agree with ■ attitude of the prohibitionists. Be could hot believe with them that no brewer and no publican could ever go to Heaven. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Even some clergymen had opposed six o’clock closing. He did not believe that prohibition would make Britain win the war. Mr Lloyd George had been a prohibitionist, but os Prime Minister of Britain he did not take that stand. Some people kaid that but for the suppression of vodka there'would have been a much worse revolution in Russia, out he was inclined to agree with those who said that hut for tho suppression ot vodka there would have been no revolution in Russia. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) If th© people were really in earnest about six o’clock closing, why did not the country carry it out and pay for it—treat license-holders fairly and pay daipages for what he claimed was really a breach of contract? (Hear, hear.) What he advocated was that they should put restrictive taxation on be eland other alcoholic liquors as they- should on all other luxuries. He believed that early closing would bring about illicit drinking in the evening, and illicit drinking in very undesirable places. (Hoar, hear.) Some 300,000 odd gallons of alcoholic liquor were sent yearly into prohibition districts in the Dominion, and that would go on under six o’clock closing. (Hoar, hear.) Some restriction, he agreed, should at the present time be placed on th© consumption of alcohol, but the loss involved should be equitably spread over the whole community. (Hear. h! *At \0.50 p.m. Mr G. R. Sykes (Masterin’) moved the adjournment of the debate, and the House adjourned accordingly till 2.30 p.m. to-day.