LICENSING QUESTION.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 6995, 8 December 1909, Page 5

LICENSING QUESTION.

Members of the Licensed Victuallers' Association from all parts of New Zealand met in the Wellington Hall, Boulcotfc street, yesterday, to consider the recent agreeroettt with the ■no-license party and its subsequent modification by tho tatter party. There was a large and representative attendance. TEEMS OF THE- COMPACT , Mr Martin Kennedy, president of the New Zealand Brewers' Association, who tiros unanimously voted to tho obair, outlined the negotiations leading up to the agreement, which was x*ad as follows by the secretary of the-association, Mr ±l. J v Williams : Proposed Amendments: of-the Licensing Act, 1908: 1. Two issues only shall hereafter be pub to the people, viz. : (1) I vote that the number of licenses existing in the: distriot continue. (2) I vote that no licenses be granted in tho district. 2. The issue." I vote that the number of' licensee existing in the district ba reduced," Bhall hereafter not be put to tho people. 3. That every vote hereafter cast for local Ko-liconso shall count for national (or Dominion) prohibition, and there Bhail be added the issue No. 2 above, words indicating this effect, thus:—(2) I vote that no licenses be granted in thla district (this vote shall also be counted; lor Dominion prohibition). 4. Upon Dominion prohibition coming Into effect, no intoxicating liquor shall be imported into or manufactured or . sold within the Dominion, exoept for solentiflo and medical purposes. 5. The majority of votes required to carry Dominion prohibition shall be 65lOOths of ail the votes cast. 6. The majority of votes required to carry local No-license shall be reduoed from 3-sths to 55-lOOths of all the votes cast. 7. If Dominion prohibition is carried, it shall not ta&e effect for a period of five years from date of the poll after it is so carried. 8. If local No-license is carried, it shall not take effect for two years from date of the poll after it is so carried. 9. If Dominion prohibition is carried, no further poll shall be taken until such prohibition has been in operation Shree years. 10. In districts in which No-license Is already in force, or shall come into force before Dominion prohibition is carried, the same issues shall be put as at present, but all votes cast for non-restoration in the district shall count for Dominion prohibition, and there shall be added after the words "I vote that licenses ba not restored in the distriot," the words .." (this vote "shall also be counted fox Dominion prohibition)." 11. IB the votes cast for restoration In any distriot amount to 55-lOOths of all the votes cast, restoration Bhall be deemed to be carried. THE CORRESPONDENCE. The followang correspondence was atjiohed:— To the Sight Honourable the Prime Minister of New Zealand. Dear Sir,—On behalf of the New Zealand Alliance for tho Abolition of the . Liquor traffic, and being duly authorised by the executive of that body to make this request on its behalf, we hereby agree to, and request that you will pass into law during tho present' session of Parliament the foregoing proposed amendments of the Licensing Aot, 1903; and wo hereby, on the same behalf, agree to further by all means in our power the passage into law of legislation embodying these amendments. \ .We male thifl request and promise without foregoing the principles embodied in the Bill now standing on the order-paper in the name of Mr Laurenson, ALP. We do so In deference to r'spnesentations made. by* the Hon. Dr. Findlay, and on the understanding that a similar request anct promise is i being made to you by the authorised 1 representatives of the Ijioemed Liquor ■ Trade, and with the hope that these amendments will serve the full pnrposea -»£ our reform.—Tours respectfully, WESLEY SPBAGG, President mi. Alliance. JOHN DAWSON - , Secretary. ■i!Co=the Hon.. Dr. Findlay, iiinister of Justice, Wellington. Sir,—The draft ameatdmeptfi-eimbodyine the proposed alteration of the Licensing Act, 1903, are to be submitted to Bach, solicitor a» we nominsute. We, of comae, agree that the same privilege is to be acceded to tho repreaontatlvea of the licensed Liquor Trade. In ' case of any difference as to the form or drafting of these amendments, we jagred to submit to and abide by your decision. Wo do this on the understanding that the authorised representhe Liquor Trade bind themjjelvea by the same understanding.— jrourß* truly, WESLEY SPBAGG, President H\Z. Alliance. JOHN DAWSON. Secretary. * ■VWevaepreseoatativea of the New Zealand Brewers and Wine and Spirit Ster- . -chomt3' , Association of New Zealand ■ and of -the Hew Zealand Licensed TictanHers* Association, hereby agree to amendments of the Licensing Act. 1908; and we further undertake to do all in our power to have these amendments carried into, law \ thla session; and we further "undertake that in case of. any difference as to the terms of the draft embodying these amendments between our solicitor and ths solicitor of the New Zealand Alliance for tie Abolition of the Liquor Traffic, we agree to submit to and abide by, the decision of the Hon. Dr. Findlay-, At-torney-General. (Signed) M. KENNEDY; Chairman N.Z.B.A. Ji S. PALMES, President Licensed Victuallers' Association of' N.2. Approved:— Leo M." Myers (the Campbell and Efirenfried Co., Ltd). •She Crown Brewery Company, Ltd., per JjJSJS. J. J. Staples and Co., at. Kennedy, managing director. Speight and Co.. per M. Kennedy, authorised by A. W. Greonslade. . The Great Northern Brewery Co., John ' Mowbray. / Hancock and Co., New Zealand, Ltd., - • per Ernest Davis, O. Nicholson, li. V D. Nathan and Co., Ltd., per \T. ...Warnpclc. - •

REPRESENTATIVE MEETING OP THE TRADE, THE RECENT AGREEMENT. ATTITUDE OF THE ALLIANCE CONDEMNED.

LEGALITY OP THE COMPACT The chairman, reviewing the position, said their object was to consider what claim they had on tho Government with respect to tho carrying out of the compact. He did not think there was any justification for atAuidoning an agreement of this nature merely at the will of the other side. When tho agreement was signed, it was naturally assumed that it would be observed by both parties. The followers of tho No-License party's executive, it was clear, had repudiated tho agreement. Parliament would say that they were absolved from any undertaking to legislate if the parties had not really agreed. As the Trade had been invited into the matter, tliey had a right to assume thut if the parties came together they would greatly facilitate the passing of any legislation. The Trade had made large concessions, on the understanding that every vote cast fox local No-Lioense was: itfeo cast for national prohibition. That was the kernel of the whole matter. He called cm Mr Leo Myers to address the meeting. A COMPREHENSIVE EEYIEW QUESTION OF REPUDIATION. THE TRADE DECEIVED. Mr Leo Myers (Auckland) said: It is my duty to Tespond to the request of the chairman, and give you a report of the

(negotiations which Jed up to the recent (agreement between the New Zealand AlEimoe and the Trade—a compromise that as effected only to be repudiated by (the Alliance a few days afterwards. You tare of course aware that.the No-License Karty have been agitating for an alteraIfeon of the tow, so aa to give them local |no-license on a bare majority, basis, and also Dominion, option on similar nines. The Trade,-on the other hand, Bias felt that Parliament should set itleelf to remedy certain grievances and might the industice under which the rTrade was labouring. Need I remind (you that the Tirade has always felt the I injustice of the dual vote that could be lttecarded foil reduction and no-license I—two inconsistent issues. , The Trade (has,>however, recognised, thut besides [itself and the Prohibition party- there Kvas another section of the community (whose interests hod to be protected—mamely, the great moderate party. Bearing this in mind, the Trade'sought to (Bvolve issues that would protect this iparty's interests, whilst conceding at the £&me time to the Prohibitionists that rfor which they were agitating, and- remedying in some measure the injustice 'before referred to. THE ISSUES. (The upshot of this continued agitation by the Alliance was a 'suggestion from the Hon. Dr Pindlay that we conifer with the leaders of the New Zealand (Alliance on the t, lines of a compromise jtocceptable to both sides. Ascertaining .•from Dr Findlay thati the representatives of the Alliance were accredited by. that body, arid fully'authorised by it to act, I satisfied him that I and. my colleagues 'were empowered to represent the Trade of tho Dominion. This was essential before commencing negotiations,. as .we were not prepured to disclose the hand j of the Trade by means of a compromise except under circumstances that would result in finality. Dr Pindlay stated thut the basis of his negotiations was the as--1 suranoe regarding thei rauthority of Mr I Wesley Spragg and the Rev. Mr D'awson —president and secretary respectively of the New Zealand Alliance. The Trade then submitted to these gentlemen, through the Hon. Dr Pindlay, the fol--1 lowing issues, which it was considered, ooneexved the interests of all parties in the community: 1. Vote for Dominion prohibition. 2. Vote " for continuance of licenses (as at present). 3. Vote for local no-license (as Sit present). Under these issues the Trade conceded Dominioni prohibition in lieu of reduction —each elector to have the right to record his vote for one issue. These proposals were summarily rejected by the Alliance leaders, who submitted counter proposals providing for: 1. Vote for continuance of . license (as at present). " 2, Vote for local. no-license (as at

pre.-.emi, with the footnote 0:1 the billot-paper t'.'.:t each vote oast for looal no-liccrjvo should count for 'Dominion prohibition. SPIRIT OF COMPROMISE. We con-idend this aspect of the question, and with a coiuc loudness of the spirit of compromise, wo agreed to the issues, Ijut insisted that ad tku vote ior Iccal n'>-li cense was to count for Dominion prohibition, that the electors should this condition clearly placed bt-l'ore them with tile issues on the bal-lot-paper, iu>.teud of in a foot-note, which would probably not be seen. Recognising that we wore giving way very considerably in allowing the Alliance to establish tho principlo in New Zealand of national prohibition, and on tho further principle that only 55 per cent, should ba required, instead of 60 per cent., to carry an issue, it was agreed that an extension of the respite should bo granted to the Trade in the case of either local no-licejise or national prohibition. The agreement that you have heard reud by the chairman was then entered into and signed by the parties. I may here say that.prior to the agreement being signed by the Alliance leaders, they called a meeting of the executive of tho New Zealand Alliance to confirm the terms of the agreement arranged by their leaders with us. After several hours' discussion, the Alliance exocutivo approved of the compromise. NO-LICENSE PARTY'S INCONSISTENCY. In view of this confirmation, and of the unmistakable language used in tho agreement, and letter's read by tho chairman, one is at a loss to understand how the Prohibition party can honestly claim that their leaders who conducted the negotiations were not representing the whole of tho persons bound together in the name of the New Zealand Alliance. You can, therefore, appreciate the astonishment that was felt when, at a spedail convention of the. executive and members of the New Zealand Alliance called in Wellington some days afterwards, it was decided that that convention would not support, and thus repudiated, the main underlying principle embodied in the agreement, viz., that every vote east for local no-license would thereby be cast for national prohibition. You, and all right-thinking' men and women, will surely require no I assistance from me to fittingly characterise such condxict. Surely the monopoly of" all tho virtues arrogated to themselves by the leaders of the. Nolicense party is inconsistent with such a reprehensible action. What would such "leaders have said had the position been reversed, and the repudiating party been the Trade?

THE TRADE'S SINCERITY. As a .contrast, let mo point out how the Trade attested its sincerity. When Dr Findlay somewhat stretched the construction of 1 the agreement against the Trad© on several points, Air Skerrett, on Its behalf, formally protested to him, but, in spite of this, loyally carried out th© spirit of the agreement by accepting; Dr Findlay's decision as final and binding. It has suggested that the Trade were deriving some undue benefit from the compromise. Time alone could prove whether such was the case. The Trade were prepared to stand or fall on the issue of . the abolition of liquor from the Dominion, which was the main object of the New Zealand Alliance, as is manifest from its title. Th© executive of the New Zealand Alliance' evidently considered that the time was opportune for the realisation of their hopes, and so entered into the agreement; hut when the agreement was made known these leaders must have thought that • they had misgauged public opinion, and then, by repudiating the agreement, demonstrated their unwillingness to leave -the decision of this issue to the electors, evidently postponing it for an occasion in their opinion more opportune. Their actions should conclusively satisfy the Moderate party who have been so sorely misled by them in the - past as to what can bo expected from the Alliance in. the future. In entering into the. agreement we were fully conscious of the magnitude of the gamble that was involved in it, as it was impossible to forecast with any degree of accuracy what action, the public would take with those issues before them. The. indignation and disgust of the Trad© do not arise from the fact that the Trade was enamoured in any degree of the terms entered into, but from the fact that the Trade was. deceived by the leaders of the Alliance who so unworthily repudiated the agreement that was entered into only after such mature deliberation. ' (Applause.) AN INTOLERABLE POSITION ADDRESS BY MR J. S. PALMER. Mr J. S Palmer, President of the Jfew Zealand Licensed Association, said The picture in tiiis hall today is worth looking at. Such a magnificent response to invitations hurriedlyissued to attend this conference at very short notice is gratifying to, a degree, and is surely; an indication that increased interest is being taken in trade affairs: and, further, it is apparent to-day that there is greater unanimity amongst its members than ever existed before. At the same time also it may be said that never before in the licensing history of the Dominion -was there greater necessity for the most' complete nnity and cohesion tluui exists at the present

time. Therefore, it behoves each and every one concerned to identify themselves as close!}- as possible with all legitimate means to promote and preserve the interests of a calling, which for centuries has been looked lip to and recognised as a. lawful, proper and justmable adjunct to the conditions of our social and civilised life’. AGITATION AND COERCION. During recent years, however, a certain faction has developed—infinitesimal perhaps in itself as a faction, but influenced and aided by a chain of circumstances, that faction has been more or less instrumental, and. X may say successful, chiefly bv means of agitation, coercion, falsehood and other questionable methods of creating such a ferment and turmoil in the land that the position of the trade has become almost an impossible one, and certainly intolerable, so much bo that something should —or shall I sa} must?—bo done to relieve the present tension. If, as has been stated, the trade has been sitting down, so to speak—and Ido not admit that such has been the case—it is because its members have been, and are still, bound hand and foot with conditions that are unfair, embarrassing, un-British, and such as do not obtain with any other trade, calling, business or profession. Now, we need, and we have a right to expect, reasonable if not adequate relief from such an unenviable and unjust position, a position, which, owing to its peculiarities, practically disfranchises us from taking part in the consideration of political and other public although perhaps affecting the welfare and future of our adopted country. TRULY MISERABLE LIFE. Under such conditions a licensee lives a truly miserable life. It may not always be apparent on the surface, but it is so nevertheless. He is, of necessity, expected to wear a smiling face at all times, under all circumstances, and under all conditions—irrespective and regardless of the fact that it is almost impossible for him to do anything that will not invite or involve some form of retaliation, either vindictive, spiteful or of a kindred nature. With these and other objects in view, and having an intimate knowledge of the peculiar and intricate nature of the situation, it was, after very mature consideration, deemed advisable, and even necessary, to assist or co-operate, if possible, in some way to not only make an efiort to solve this most vexed, difficult and overshadowing problem, but also to arrive at some mutual conclusion which would have the effect of producing something in the nature of finality—that the question of a possible compromise might, by arrangement, bp looked, into and considered on merits, which it was hoped

would ultimately appeal to all sections and parties concerned. An earnest attempt was made, and with the mutual and neutral assistance of a Minister of the Crown—who, I am bound ■ to say, acted throughout the transactions as a thoroughly impartial intermediary—an agreement was arrived at —aa agreement which, so far as the trade was concerned, was the outcome of serious and earnest reflection; an agreement which, after taking all the circumstances into consideration, was considered fair and reasonable; an agreement which rvas duly signed by leading, officers on either and both sides; an agreement which, when once made, we had every right to expect would be carried ont in its entirety; an agreement which practically bore the “hall mart" of the Government, by reason of the mutual, though neutral, impartial and valuable assistance rendered at a time when the completion of satisfactory negotiations seemed almost, i£ not quite, impracticable; an agreement which has since Ijeen deliberately violated and repudiated. By whom! By a party of individuals who set themselves up as leaders and teachers of public morals; a party who by their utterances, public and otherwise, would have you believe that it is almost impossible lor them to be unfaithful, dishonest or be parties to a dishonourable action. Recent events, however, have disclosed the cloven hoof; they have exposed themselves clearly in their true colours. Recent events have amply demonstrated how unreliable, how dishonest and untrustworthy these people can be at any and every opportunity when they consider the end justifies the means. (Applause.) Under all the circumstances and considering the gravity of the situation, I feel that we as a body are entitled to assistance and protection against such conduct by the Legislature. (Applause.), • . THE MODERATE MAN'S HELP THE SPIRIT OP PAIR PLAY. * Mr A. E. Kernot (Wellington District Wine and Spirit Merchants' Association) maintained that the spirit of fair play should enter into every agreement. Whether they gained or lost,' the trade had been willing to stand by their agreement,' and were willing to keep their bond. They were not going to take the action of the no-license party lying down. (Hear, hear.) It had been thought that the, No-licenso party were stronger than they really were, but the moderate party had put-them where they were. He considered that’ the No-license party would never bo more surprised than at the result of the next election, unless they behaved properly. (Applause). Mr W. A. Mowbray (Levin and Co.) supported the protest.MH LOTJISSON'S VIEWS. : The Hoa. C. C. Louisson. M.L.C., said that the - executive ' of the 2s T o-I;cense

party, a body "of gentlemen with keen brains, was ready to take advantage of Kin- opportunity it might get. They did not like to be told that they had •'repudiated" their part of the bargain. Such a compact as had been signed could not be enforced on tiitheri party except through tho honourable conduct of both side.s. The compact had nowbeen sealed, signed, and delivered, and the terms wore settled; and no alteration in any of those terms was to be accepted. (A'pplaui-e.) The alteration suggested by til© No-license party hit at the very'root of the agreement—the principle of one man, cue vote. The agreement had been come to, and the Premier was willing to put it into effect, when at tho last moment one of the signatory parties repudiated it. Tho terms of the compact, which both parties had signed, had not been suggested by the trade, but had come from the Kohcense party itself. (Applause.) Thai, thev had been considered at all by the victuallers was entirely the result of Dr h'indlay's intervention. The Noli cense people had tried to belittle the suggested amendments in the law. Would they belittle the reduction of the majority necessary for no-license from 60-100ths to 55-100tlis? The trade would never have agreed to this reduction without the other provisions of the agreer ment, and by the whole compact they would stick. "(Hear, hear.) They would go to the Government on its exact terms. (Applause.) Why should they let the other party steal from them 5 per cent, without getting something in return? £0 far as he was pensonally concerned, he was not at all sorry about tho repudiation of the compact. Perhaps they might have lost more than they would have gaiined. But they had shown, at any rate, that they were prepared to abide by an agreement, but the other party had not cut much of a figure before the public. (Hear, hear). MAJORITY QUESTION THE FIVE PER CENT CONCESSION. The chairman, referring to the reduction of the majority, said that the representatives of the trade had had grave doubt whether it was wise to make this concession. It was not with regard to national option that they-had been apprehensive, but so far as local opliion was concerned. Where the trade -would be safe was in the number of moderate drinkers who at present voted no-license, but knew that they could have liquor in the house. Under the new agreement these people would not vote no-license. The representatives of the trade regarded the combilnation of Dominion

prohibition with the reduced majority as their last sheet-anchor. (Applause). On the motion of Mr Myers, the meeting then .went into committee. THE DECISIONS THE PRIME MINISTER TO BE SEEN. The conference sat in committee until 5 p.m.. 'aill the business being completed by that time. A resoT&don was passed to the effect that none of the decisions should be made.puttie until.they had been placed before Sir Joseph Word. This will probably be done to-day. J It is understood that the Government is to_be asked to legislate on the basis of tne agreement arrived at recently' between the two parties. The confer-1 ence does not insist upon tie legislation! being put through this session; but is anxious that. the law should be altered in the 1 direction indicated, before the next <general election. BENTS AND .BONUSES A long discussion also took place on the question of rents and bonuses. A fair rent< agreement was advocated by several speakers, who .pointed out that licensees trafficked too much in their businesses, and the result was that in many cases they had- no interests to protect at the_ time of the general elections. No resolution was put to tho meeting on the question.' •■-.■-.<