LABOUR’S WANTS

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 6624, 14 September 1908, Page 5

LABOUR’S WANTS

IMPOSSIBLE DEMANDS. STRAIGHT TALK BY THE PREMIER A deputation from the recent conference* of Trades and Labour delegates of tLa Dominion, lidd in Welling’on. waited upon the Prime Minister and tho Minister for Labour on Saturday morn* inpr to lay before them various resolutions parsed. .Mr \V. G. Lightf u»t, president, of tlnr Welimgioii council, expressed the i*opo 111 at on 11 is oeccasiou iho Llowimnont would giva olivet to wishes of the conference" He urged the statutory limit a* lion of working hoare to -IB por week. Ho congriiulaled the Government upon the Compensation for Accidents Bill, but urged that full, instead of Lull', wngo*’ tdiould bo allowed to injured wot kora DISCRIMINATION- AGAINST ■. UNIONISTS.

Air D. A. HcLaro.u regretted that pro. vious resolutions of the conference had not been given effect to, ns the delegatee represented a largo number of peopit whoso interests wvim quite ns vital art ithoso of other portions of the community. Their chief desire was effect should be given to their rusolu. lions. In regard to statutory limitation of working hours, ho urged that all clnßSeiS of the community should bo provided with one day weekly as a. day ol rest. This was a. matter which tho Government should push forward us speedily as possible. Referring to the Arbitration Act, he advocated an alteration in the system of furnishing union statistics, as the procedure under thu existing conditions was little bettor tluu> a farce. The conference fctrongly urged an amendment of section 108 of the Act whereby the onus would be placed on. the employer to prove that a workman, was discharged for legitimate _ cause, thus doing away with the possibility oil victimisation and discrimination against unionists. Discrimination against unionists wu« a very serio'ius thing, as it wna practically depriving them of all then’ existing legal rights. Jt was'most vieio oils in the ease of a single employer, but was of the nature of a heinous conspiracy -when practised by a largo body of employers. TTo could not sec'may ground for an alteration in tho number of men who could form a union and register under the Act, No reason had been given for any departure from fbn existing law. Tho conference desired, in. addition to doing away with tho exor* 1 tion wage, that employers should bo da* barml from adopting any such system as the premium bowiß system, which* resulted in the sweating of employees. There was very littlo in the Amending? Bill that was before the conference that it considered good. The workers held' flint they had Hie right to withhold the Rule nf their labour, aud sell to tho highest bidder, just the same ns shopkeepers and others had the right to sell their respective commodities. The conference was emphatically in favour of the Arbitration Act of 1894, but the system of to-dny was entirely different to the Principle of that Act. What they were face to face with wns anti-strike, repressive legislation, which was altogether different in principle to the Act of 189 L They thought public bodieff should not he allowed to loin nsaoe-in-tions of workers or employers. Koprcv Renting classes, emplovors and employees public bodlofi should not. have the power to join one association to oppose the interests nf the other section of the community. Tim Compensation for Accident* A*t Amending Bill was approved generally by fhn conference, Imt he urged tho matter of the amount nf cen>ponsniion provided for that half earnings were not sufficient to meet the requirements of a workers* family. Workers ns n rnk had nothing saved, and ip nnws of nreident half the previous earnings was not siifftciept to keep a family going, rendering voluntary help necessary. Nothing short of full wage* would he satisfactory. They hoped the Government would reconsider tho Tualt.er of the exclusion of the rights of certain relatives from the scon' 1 of tho compensation clause, Tim addition of work on wharves and. dorks to tho schedule of the Bill as to wlnt wer" "hazardous occupations" wan desired hy the conference. Agree--mmif.q between workers and employers pVoild not be ellow^d—or., at any rate, net «o far as they'deprived the worker of. the rfohfc to obtain compensation, Tf agreements were allowed the union, should hava some statutory control to conserve the interests of its members. PUBLIC BODIES.

Mr M. I. Reardon said the amending Conciliation and Arbitration Bill ii* tended to deprive workers' of the benefit of the Act if the employers were not employing them for pecuniary gain. If this worn so. general labourers working for local bodies would be excluded, and this would bo excluding one of thc’_ largest body of .workmen in- tho Dominion. Tt was argued that members of : local bodies, being dependent to a large extent upon votes, were prone to give good wages, but tin's was entirely fallacious. Local bodies did not pay bolter wages than private employers, end bo hoped the defect in the now Bill would bo remedied. XIo urged that favourable, consideration slie/nld be given to tho resolution of the oonforcr.cn regarding the power to nnp"nl from the decisions of the. proposed Special Conm'lialors to the Arbitration Court. Tt should be made more difficult to make, appeals nea.insl' the nwnrds of the special conciliators. The Minister of Labour pointed out that the difficulty referred to was met> hv giving the Court power to make fin award apply from the date of tho recommendations of the conciliators. Mr McLaren said the conference considered the application of the conspiracy law to private enterprises and "public' services” was absolutely out of nil reason. They also strongly objected to tbit attachment of workers' wages. The reason why they had affirmed tho IfiDl Act was because they desired to see the law simplified instead of complicated. UNPROTECTED. M>- E J. Carey said the class of work-, ersAmoks and waiters—ho represented were working 80 and 90 Uouro in tho country, lie mentioned this in support of a limitation of hours. The Arbitration Court had not been able to protect unskilled labour. Mr W. (i. Lightfcot urged that an attempt should be made to improve the conditions of miners, and also that tho Government should compel the observance of the contract conditions regarding accommodation for the men employed on tho Arthur’s Pass tunnel. THE PREMIER’S REPLY.

Intimation was made by tho Premier that tho various requests of the conference would he duly considered. So far as the Government was concerned it wan anxious to do what it could in a fair and legitimate way to make the conditions of the workers better where they required to ho made hotter. One of the things the conference appeared to imagine—judging from the resolutions and some of the comments of the press—■w as that every resolution passed should he. given effect to hy tile Government. This was a mistaken idea, and he thought they had sufficient sense to recognise that. If they passed resolutions on some matters which it was largely impossible to put into practice, and then found fault with the Government for not doing so. it was a very unreasonable course to take up. THE WORKERS’ INTERESTS. Regarding the remarks of Mr McLaren concerning the interests of flu- workers the Government recognised to the fullest extent that their interests wore an vital as those of any other portion of the community —and alwavg had done so, but

x>kf-n l.h'*y were* askul to do what was ijri|/o-i>ii)dn and did not do ho. thfy should /tfit, b<- I'iiund fault with. A« a matter uf fart and .-ipfsikiiitf a,; orr- who had a Joiq; exparjonco of public jif*.--*tho Gov•cmri'ont had demo a grout doul vvhiuh it ditl not g'-l on-dit lor. Unco a good thing •waa dono it was more often fmgulUii than ronionihnrnd, ami it was a miotuko *a expect to get any credit for it, A DAY Oh' liK.ST. Thero wero .sonr.* diUicuit .udrs to homo Of the maltciH limy worn, juixiouo 1.0 gvl. a solution of which the Govcrnim-nt could not tdint its eye.*, to. lie iain.-V'd ho wilt, right in Haying that every member of the Government believed in onejay's rent in tho v;e,|: tor everybody, and vso fur «‘w they could omk-avoiin d iu put tills into praetico. If they altcinpl)d to put it into law they would bring .djout a slate of alfuirs ihal obviously, on the face of it. would be very in-

jurious to everyone in the country. Mr Mcbaren: Why so? i’hoy can do ft in other eountiko.

Tim I'ntnucr: I will you what tekfV? place iu other countries, 'rake I‘Vance, for instance, the country that has bemi rvfoiTnl to. Trom the ijegmaiitg of January to (ho end of December every Sunday they do not own alter the •:ml diary train arrangements na. ruing, anon, or night. Tin* miiio applied In •Germany. Switzerland, Italy, and otiirr places, iv.’erybody tiirawl out ami uti--1 irasl tho Lranait facllith.s. While Idu-re 'A'crn wirnc good tilings in France, there wore othem which were ns detestable, ind obnoxious as anyone cou!<) imagine. Mr Garay: Wo do no(; ask for Sunday.

The Premier: Sunday ia the flay we recognise—but f do not; want to go into that .side of the question. If they could make Sunday the absolute day of rest /or everybody tlicy could meet the difficulty. but in actual practice it. would be impossible to lay it down as a mandatory law fhat everybody should cense to work on that dav.

Mr Lightfwt: Wo malif-n with tho fJovtM-nninhf Mu* impossibility of everyone having tho weekly day of rcrfc on the same day.

Tho Premier : I am only referring to it, /us T had Sunday in rny mind, because jßornr* of tho Continental places were qiiokd. Mr Gamy; Tho only reason why they cum pel a weekly day of rest is because <ho much work is done on a Sunday, and tho majority of tho employees are compelled to work.

Tho Premier /said ho was quite prepared to look into Mm wholo question. When a man had lo work on a Sunday ho .should hare another day off. (Hear, hoar.) It was, however, difficult to remove some of those things which required to have llexibilily in order Lo imVfc Ihe administration and requirements of different localities. Tor that To/mori it wn« difficult to supersede the decisions of tho Arbitration Court. This was ono of the* things they hnd to contend with wheta they tried to put into ( Dnictioo for tho betterment of their fellow men tborto things they wore anxious to do. “1 know you complained at the conference at tho action of the/ Government, and you are entitled to complain if you choose to do so,” said Sir Joseph. “I arn not talcing exception to that, but— Mr Reardon : I am afraid it was previous Governments who wore complained DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH. The Premier: Wo are legitimately doing what wo can to improve the general conditions, but there is very much difference of opinion as to how wo are doing it. They recognised the* importance of all interests in tho country, and, while they wore amending, the Arbitration Act bo as to make the conditions more satisfactory than they were, they recognised it wag an exceedingly difficult matter to deal with. Tho workers got together in conference and passed Tftsolutiona that in their opinion something should bo done, but when the Government examined them and found that they could not be done, they did what they believed waa right—giving at the same tinid consideration to what had been said. This was what they were doing, although it Plight not be possible Jo do what the workers asked them. They might paste them If they liked if Hio did not do it. Still, at the same time, they had responsibilities and judgment. If anybody eko was prepared to do what was asked, they would not take any exception to them. The Government was earnest and anxious to do what it could, but it could hot do •everything. They recognised that tho interests of tho workers wera as vital au any class of the State, and they were anxious to do fairly and legitimately what they could to improve tho conditions. THE ARBITRATION ACT. ’ Tho Bill which had been introduced this cession had received u good deal of oom:cue n\ both for and against. Some of the 1 .matters referred to by tho deputation had been dealt with by tho Labour Bills Loumutieo when considering tho Bill. ' Others hud been considered by tlio tom- 5 inittoo and not included, so that it was \ fair to assume that there must be somo 1 mi son for not making any rccoiumcnda- 1 cion. Iho Government would give tho \ representations earnest consideration, ' with a view to seeing what it could ' do and how far it would go in the di- 1 reckons urged. i THE MINISTER OF ,LABOUE. { Tho Hon. Mr Millar pointed out that 1 most of tho resolutions passed bv the ii conference were on tho assumption that t Conciliation Boards wore going to romaia. Iho conference had maintained that Conciliation Boards .should bo rota mod, and all their resolutions hinged * on such Boards. Now tho Conciliation 1 Boards had boon done away with. • Mr McLaren; Conciliation Boards were 1 QO T Gr ffjyt'n an honest trial. J Mr .Millar: There is now no com pul- 1 iiory conciliation at all. Conciliation t Board woe an absoltuo misnomer. Under I tho now proposals there was conciliation o and nothing else. ' c

Mi; Reardon; U gives us the same fight as we have at present to appoint our own members? Mr Millar : Oil, yos, but they must bo iKoJ I,C,UbOrS ot ' * ko P 1,r ‘“»I«- trade IVlr McLaren : Wo strongly oppose being eiod in the matter us to who shall represent us. Millar, This conciliation is not binding on anybody. You can take it to tho (. ourt. There is no restriction nrnl the Court will deal with it when it boforo it. If men could not « 07i.0 to a decision on a question in which confd"'°? r.'tolb-intcro.sted n 0 outsider ™ -;i i k i oth ™'. ll ° so - Machinery was keen d aw.. to tf - r P' vln ff tendency to keep away loom both the Board and Court, and niako agreements. UNION MEMBERS. Regarding the furnishing of details of unions to the department, there to a lot ot useless work sending in the names of all members of tho union™ An oltnrnhon might bo made for the smulim* in )L th 't ? llmb * r f <> £ triulos and the mimfinancial members, ,r u^KT'. 11 . 111^0 nn interjection, to H,"f ir tk tx Mmi « tor implied : I guarantee that if the union fx>oks are ptaminwl vou would And any mnuber of men on da uiifinancial,. and u iio si.ould not bo there. hors'.' Mc ' Larcn : Thp >' aro all legal momi They ought, according to .ho law. to b« written oft. You have no Maim against thorn. 1 k»i!’£ aren i ! Y , ou eh °«ld not make us ktop thorn os legal members iinfirmncial member ho should bo written on? je Mr Reardon : This is only a minor matNO EXEMPTION INTENDED. Tho Minister, continuing, said hr* thought they would find most of the points regarding tho Court over-riding tho statute law dealt with in tho now Bill. Regarding tho provision affecting workers not employed "directly or indirectly for pecuniary gain/ 1 ho thought I local bodies were covered. There wasj no intention to exempt them, and if there I

was any doubt about Urn matter it would bo put right when, the Dili was in < r > t mit lee. it was somewhat; difficult to deal with men belonging to local bodies employed on wfvkly wag/.s. ifo imslancea ijio caso of a lire brigade man at Chnsl(dmrch, who, after lie hml donu his eight lionii work, had been net to do a litlio painting. A prosecution was de.sirud. it was little pin-pricks ov**r ab-oiutely nothing which <-a.ured ii.e.lf the. friction. It was eases like ibis that the union should not as!: the department to take up. When they refused to take action fir w*m-o accused of not administering the law. Their whole object: was to try to make a workable mea.-uro and not to include things in the Dill which would he absolutely impossible if passed and Vould upset everybody in the country. DEKIN'ING A WORKED, lit' wanD’d to enlargo tho definition of wordier to allow everyone employed for him* or reward to form a union. Mr Mcbaren: And let everyone get an award if they want it? Mr Millar : Everyone will get an award if 1 lie tourr, gives It. Mr beardon ; ThatV* a different mat-

Mr Millar: You arc coming to a very touchy matter if you esay the Court must do a tiling. Ifc was not going lo go Milo an explanation of the Court's action iji ll)o jrnat. It would not do for him to criticise it at all. His real desire was to have industrial peace, and he thought they had the mo-chinory drafted which would enable this to bo done. Nothing wemt to the Court under the new proposals, except the points not admitted in conference.

M r h’eardon : ThatN important. Mr Carey: Is an agreement, binding on •subsequent parties ? Mr Millar: It is binding on nveryano c,t bached. It has the same effect its an award of the Court at present. He wis trying to prevent the hitches which had. taken place, and so far of they c.ouhl pnfwihly foresee any Hint wero likely to <UI NOT FINALITY. I do not for one moment say that this meane finality. I do not think thero will ever be finality on the question of capital and labour. lie had endeavoured to meet all the points, and he thought that if they desired to give the new system a fair trial they would find tho leans which they anticipated would not lx? realised. Ho said this upon the ground that sixty agreements had Ix*m entered into where workers had gono and met tho employers. There had been no victimisation, and a better feeling ox listed than if there had been compulsion. Air Reardon; Some of them are wretched agreements.

Mr Millar said his idea was to got a properly legal agreement drawn, up, bo that there would be no question of a loosely drawn agreement being thrown up. -Mr McLaren: It is not tho form oi tho agreement, it is tho substance. Mr Millar said his experience was that tho workers generally knew what they were doing, lie thought the workers were perfectly qualified, educated and intelligent. If agreements had been arrived at in sixty cases, surely it could bo gone on with. Anyhow, it should bo given a trial. Mr McLaren was wrong when ho said the Act took away tho right of a man to sell his Labour iu tho highest market. It did nothing if Iho sort. AU it said was that if a man -said ho would take advantage of tlie Act and committed a breach he had to pay for it. A SLIGHT BREEZE.

Mr McLaren: There is no other Act to take advantage of as a legal combination.

Mr Millar: There is the Trades Union Act. Mr McLaren: It is not brought up to date.

Air Millar; It is quite effective, so far ns a trades union is concerned. It is entirely wrong to say a man has no right to sell hie Labour. Regarding tho “public services," it only required a man to give fourteen days’ notice. Tho* luuat admit that it would not bo right to cut off a- milk supply at a moment's' notice.

Air AlcLaren: Tho Government should make it a public service before they treat it ae a public service, Air Alillar: That is a different m-attor. altogether. Your idea is that/tho Government should have everything as a public service, but tho Government does noc see eye tc eye with you. Our whole aim is to try and benefit our generation, make tho conditions of labour bettor, ami leavo tho next generation to do tjio same ns we are trying to do for ours. COMPENSATION FOR. ACCIDENTS. With reference to the Workers' Compeifsalion Bill, he did not think there was a posHibJe chance of getting it through the .House; even, as it was, unless ho couki show the increased benefits under the Act would cost little, or nothing in increased premiums. Tho Bill went a great deal further regarding benefits than any that had preceded it, and if they got it through as it was they could leave the matter of getting a full week's wages ono for further consideration. Ho preferred to get a little ut a time than nothing at all. If ho could only get it on the statute book the worker would be a good deal better off than ho was at the present time. Ho had no doubt the Piciaier would endeavour to do something with it. COOKS AND WAITERS.

.Implying to a question by Mr Carey, -bo Minister said tho question of hours iod never been considered. At tho pre'OUt time he was going into the question >1 -a separate Act for hotel employees, lie was getting the Acts from tho Comnon wealth States, and hoped to be able :o bring clown a Bill taking hotel onidoyens out of tho SJiops and Offices Act md deal with them specifically. It was i difficult trade to deal with, but he vou id deal with ifc in the best way ho ?ould.