THE DOCK PROPOSAL.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXV, Issue 5031, 31 July 1903, Page 6

THE DOCK PROPOSAL.

lIAEBOL'R BOARD BILL THROUGH COMMITTEE. The Wellington Harbour Board Empowering Act, 1902, Amendment Bill was committed in tho House of Representatives yesterday. Mr ilerries invited an explanation of the Bill, which repeals section 11 of the Act of 3902. -Mr Wood, who is in charge of the measure, was understood to say that it would enable the Board more easily to go to the Home market for the necessary money. The Premier thought that some safeguards ought to be provided. At the present time tho condition was that any surplus moneys, after the payment of interest in tlxe Grainger street block, should bo set apart specifically for the dock; but the present proposal was to nut tuese moneys into the general pool. Notwithstanding what had been said to the contrary, me land, lie contended, was on endowment. .He did not want to oppose the Wellington Harbour Board in any useful project, but he had heard no reason why revenue which had been fixed for a specific purpose should bo put into a genera] fund. Mr Duthie said that this land had not Sjoon given to the Board; it had been bought and paid for out of the Board’s capital account. The Premier: Power was given to them to Jake it, Mr Duthie?: That is so, but it was part of tho indebtedness of the Board. Mr Duthie went on to say that it must occur to anyone that in the re-arrangement of finance, with loans fulling clue in 1907. it, was much better that a small local body should havo its funds in one account instead of in separate accounts, fn financial transactions, when an exception was made in this way, the moneylender was likely to become prejudiced. The sum of JMt),OOO had been invested in tho block, and tins was not a very material thing so far as the dock was .concerned. It was not possible to construct a dock on that security alone; and the whole thing, therefore, must fall on the revenue.

Tho Premier remarked that members now knew the object of the Bill. It was proposed to remove existing conditions and strengthen tho Board's general finances in view of tho fact that debentures were falling duo. By getting this security of the Grainger street block they would improve the general security. The ijue was very simple, and the only question was whether, if this had been proposed in the first instance, the House would have granted the block. Ho did not think it would. It was granted for a specific purpose; and if the Board overran the constable, this security having gone, there would be nothing specific to offer for the dock. Those who were favourable to the dock should consider this point; those who wore not favourable to the dock, and wero willing that this should go into the general maelstrom, should lot the Bill go. He presumed the Board had ample security for all the money it had borrowed, and he did not sec how this Bill would give it any belter position cn the London market. Mr Aitkon said that the Premier was mistaken in saying that the Grainger street block had been given for tho purposes of a dock. Ho understood that the position was this, that the Harbour Board wished to take steps to go on with a clock in Wellington, and introduced a Bill asking that a small x>ovtion of land might bo given, and the railway line shifted a little at that point. He understood that certain members of the House went down to visit the spot, and found tho jplace in such au unhealthy and bad condition that they suggested that the Board should take possession of tho whole block, and clear it. No action was taken on that suggestion, but some members of tho Upx)Gr House went down and looked at the spot, and the result was that the Council refused to pass tho Bill unless the Board took possession of the whole block, and the Bill with that object was then introduced. It was very much o. sior to finance for a small body like uo Harbour Hoard when tbero were no securities locked up. The sum of .£40,(100 bad been paid for the block of land, and interest at 4 per cent, would be .£I6OO, whilst the rents derived from the block were only a little over .£2OOO. 'i aerefore, the profits were only the difference between tho two sums, lie assured members that tbero were no ulterior motives on the part of the Board.

Mr Fisher said it so happened that there were members of that House who were discussing this question of a dock for Wellington when the hon member (Mr Aitken) was residing in some obscure village in Scotland. (Laughter.) Were they to be told by gentlemen who knew so little of the circumstances that they were to be the oracles in that House on one particular subject—tho construction of a dock for Wellington? Surelv they wero not to be taught out of the’months of babes and sucklings? (Laughter.) He warned the people of this city that if clause 14 of the Act of 1302 were repealed there would be no dock. As to docks in other places, there was Calliope Dock in Auckland, stuck up on a bank where no ship could get at it—(laughter)—and there was a dock at Port Chalmers with about sft of water on the sill. In Wellington there was a necessity for a dock, and yet hero were Messrs Duthie and Aitken—who professed to represent ’Welling-ton-standing in the way of the interests of tho commerce of this pom. He had himself agitated for this dock for 25 years, and tho Premier had been his loval ally, and had latterly taken a leading part in the matter. “If,” continued Mr Fisher, “the Premier continues to be my loyal ally, they shall have to pass over my dead body before they pass this Bill.” (Laughter). Mr Fisher went on to attack Mr William Ferguson, who was then sitting behind the Speaker’s chair, at which Mr James Allen rose to a point of order, claiming that the x-ofiection should not bo allowed.

Mr Seddon held that a member was allowed to refer to a person outside the House. (Voices: “He’s inside tho House."! Mr Seddon held that no one was inside the House except the members. Alter some discussion upon the point, it was ruled by the Speaker that so far as tho House was concerned he could take no notice of anyone except the members. It was, Air Guinness added, entirely a matter of .taste,' as the hon member was within his rights, Air Fisher said he would refer to the gentleman in an impersonal sense. Continuing, he said that if this Bill were postponed for one week be would have Wellington city in arms against it. Mr Witheford defended Calliope Dock from the imputation cast upon it by Mr Fisher.

Mr Duthie said he did not intend to follow his colleague in regard to his i 25 rears* agitation for the dock. Though Mr Fisher now spoke of Mr Napier Bell's report in terms cf approval, he remembered that Mr Fisher, when the report was obtained on his (Mr Dntnio's) motion, throw it upon the floor and spoke of the thing as a "duck-pond." (Laughter.) As to the object of this Bill, the Premier must recognise that a small body with a broken-up account was placed at a disadvantage in borrowing money. Jlr Duthie added that before agreeing to support the Bill he had been satisfied that it was not proposed to do anything to chock the construction of the dock. The Premier maintained that as Parliament had declared that tho moneys were to go to a specific purpose it was essential that Parliament should keep faith in tho matter. He held that they ought to keep faith with the tenants in the matter. Everyone who had leased any of the Grainger street land would have "a right to complain if this Bill wero passed, because the Board would not bo in such a position to keep faith with them. Mr Aitken, in saying that this land had bad nothing originally to do .with the dock, had made the statement in error, for the preamble of the Act of 189 S specifically mentioned a dock, and section 11 of that Act authorised the Board to undertake certain works. One of the weakest arguments he had heard since he had been in the House was that because certain members had gone to a place and found a slum the land should be taken or the Bill would not go through. He was “behind the scenes” then, and he maintained that it was not a otwsHon of slum, at all. If s’ums were to b" taken, ftp fitv Counei' was the bo.lv wkieb sbnnld do it. Aitken; "Hear, hear.”) Hr Seddon went ou to suggest that the people of Welling-

ton should bo consulted on this matter, ami that the Bill should be postponed fox a fortnight. He undertook that if the people named the Bill it should go through even if a Government day had to be taken for the purpose. Mr Taylor said that it must be very puzzling for young members to know w ich side to take in this controversy; but lie took his stand on section 4 of the Public Revenues Act, because that which was good for the general Government ought to be pretty safe ground for a local body. Under this section moneys could be* transferred by the Government from one vote to another. Tho Premier: There ig a difference between votes and loan moneys. Mr Taylor: The estimates for this cola1° ar as cau remember, are nearly all loan moneys. Tho Hon J. McGowan held that there was no anology between tho Public Revenues Act and the present case. The Grainger street block had been purchased with loan money, and now it wag intended to use the property to raise more loan u ], o J ie y- Ro commended the management o* *il 0 Board as a credit to the bouihpTu Hemisphere, but all the same the House had no right to depart from a right principle, even for the Wellington Harbour Board.

•kfr i isher asked the House to observe how consistently the two Conservative members ior the city of Weiiuigto-n supported this measure, and how astutely tney nad placed a Bill to carry out their wishes in tho hands of a member of “our party/; (Laughter.) A voice: “Wnat is your party?” * ur iUhcr; “VWiy, the Government P art y“tbe finest parry this country has seen. Mr Pisher went on to say that the mercantile classes of Wellington were opposing the dock scheme because they were afraid that if a dock were built they would have to pay a little more tonnage on their goods. Mr Barber supported the Bill, and held t.iat Parliament should encourage tho local body in its work of dcvelordng the port of Wellington. Tho Premier suggested an amendment by wmeh clause 2 of the Bill should read as follows;

14 of the Wellington Harbour Board Empowering Act, 1902, is hereby in so far only as to apply the surplus fund to pay the interest on general loans, or any loan, raised for the construction of Wellington dock, but not to the prejudice of the tenants occupying the lands mentioned in schedule “b” of the W ellington Harbour Board BmpowcrJng Act, ISOS, or the construction of a dock for tbo city of Wellington." Mr W. Eraser thought the Bill would be better without the amendment of the Brenner.

Mr Herdman could not understand how the position of the tenants would be affected by this Bill. lie thought that the restrictions sought to be introduced by the Premier’s amendment would considerably hamper the Board in borrowing money in .London.

Mi* Ajtken agreed with this view. Ho held that the tenants of Grainger street block would, by the amendment now proposed, be placed above the lenders. In regard to the draining of the Grainger street block, it was explained by Mr Duthie, in answer to a remark by the Premier on this question, that the drains Iliad been constructed by the Board, and the streets having been made, it was the duty of the City Council to maintain them. Tho question was not affected by this Bill. The Hon, J. McGowan said that if this Bill were passed, and the dock were not built, tho Board would be able to "las© this money for other purposes. Mr Symos held that if this Bill became law, it would mean tho obtaining of money under false pretences. Mr Laurenson said he was simply appalled at the ignorance) shown by Mr Fisher in bis assertion that tho Wellington merchants did not want the dock because it would moan that they would pay more tonnage on their goods. The merest baby in commerce knew that tho merchants simply passed the charges on to the consumers. Mr Fisher had talked of "babes and sucklings," but if members wanted to hear absolute nonsense babbled by babes and sucklings they should go to the junior member for Wellington -himself, (Laughter.) Mr Laurcnaon strongly opposed the dock scheme.

The Premier commented on the fact that Mr Laurenson, himself a hitter opponent of tho dock, was supporting this Bill; and held that this sheered that tho real object of the Bill was to proven t the construction of the dock. Mr Dnthie said that there wsns nothing in this argument. Tho dock was necessary in Wellington, and the people hero were quite prepared to take the risk, being that the dock was essential in tho interests of the port. Mr Remington would vote for the Bill if it meant that the construction of tho dock would be stopped, because ho thought that too much money had already been borrowed for docks in this colony. Mr Wood declined to accept the amendment, saying that it would make matters worse than they were now under clausa 14. Tho amendment was lost by 41 votes to 11, and on tho question of adopting clause 2 another division was called for. The clause was carried by 43 votes to Mr Field wished to move certain new clauses to allow the Grainger street block claims to be re-heard by tho Compensation Court, but before doing so asked the ruling of the Chairman of Committees on the point. Mr Millar ruled that the clauses could not be moved,' as it had been laid down in a previous session that they properly belonged to a private Bill. The Premier called for another division on the question that the Bill should bo reported from committee The motion to report tho Bill was carried by 45 votes to 13. On the question of the third reading. Mr Field said ho regretted the omission from the Bill of any clause giving the owners of tho Grainger street block the right to have their claims re-heard, lie reviewed tho history of those claims, and said that, having taken every step possible for him to take, he now looked to the Government to help those unfortunate people, lie suggested that Legislation or the payment of compensation by the State by a sum on tho Kstimates. The position was that these people had been left in their old ago with onehalf of their incomes .and in one case two-thirds of tho income. Tho Premier objected as a point of order that the time for the third reading of this Bill had not been fixed for tile House. The Speaker ruled that the third reading of a Bill could be taken at any time after the measure had been reported from committee. The Premier further opposed the Bill, and held that the whole of the endowments which Parliament set apart for the dock would be affected if this Bill were passed, and that the repeal of clause 14 had been supported by members under a misapprehension that only the Grainger street block was affected. Nothing of a substantial character in the construction of the dock had yet been done . (Mr Aifkcn: "Yes," and Mr Fisher, "No.”) The only thing the Board was doing, Mr Seddon contended, was to take away the security by which tho work would be done. He bad offered to allow a Government day fo r the measure at a later date, so as to allow tho voice of the Wellingtou public to be taken upon the Bill, but this had been refused, and it occurred to him that there was too much haste in this Legislation. Mr Tv, M. Smith agreed entirely with Ml Field in his arguments for a re-hear-ing of the uraingcr street compensation claims. Mr Aitkeu defended the Harbour Board from the charge that it had been acting surreptitiously in this matter, and said that the members of that Board were never likely to lend themselves to anything surreptitious. He held that the Board was not tied un exclusively to tho const)uction of a dock bv section 14, wire]) it was now proposed to repeal. He explained that these from whom if was proposed to borrow the money recognised that by section 14 the Board was

hampered. In answer to the Premier’s statement that no substantial work had yet been done in regard to ilic conytrucrum ol* the dock, Mr Aukuii pointed out that a wail was now being built at the bite, irmi that the dredge, winch was on its way would, after having dredged the fairway, be employed at the clock site. As to ino Grainger street claims, he would a Pill to grant a re-hearing ot all claims of the Kind; tno Bill should bo made general, ami extend over a x>eriod. say, oi ten years. The Premier: Would that include the “Byko corner V** u Mr Anken; Yes, it would iuclmlo the "Byko curlier”; but I doubt very much if under the same cixx-uinstances we should get the ‘‘Byko corner” lor one farthing less than wo had ultimately to pay for it. Mr Usher what part Messrs Aitken and Duthio had taken in improving tho harbour accimmoaalion of V* ell in gton. if there had been stumblingblocks against the improvement ol tne port, those two geutlemen hud taken from rank. Alter ail the ceaseless efforts of those who had worked for this dock, they were now to be thwarted at Ihe eleventh hour—and by whom? By the two gentlemen who were his> colleagues in tho representation of Wellington (Laughter.) lie warned the Premier that if the Government thwarted the dock scheme the majvimy of the people of Wellington would bear hisr Government unuying cmnivy, lie challenged Messrs Ankcn Oiird Duthie to meet him on tho public platform and clisciir-s this question. 11 all efforts failed to block tins Pill here the opportunity must be* taken to block it another place.” (Oh!) Mr hisher aiiirounee<l that he would call some public meetings in Wellington on this tion, Mr l>uthk» deplored the waste of lime which had taken place over this Bill, and the wrangling between Wellington members over this question. Ito contrasted Mr Pish or’s altitude ou this dock quenliou with that adopted by him on tho same subject sis years ago, when he held Mr Duthio up to dcrisdon regarding tho dock proposal. Mr Pi slier now boldly claimed the credit for the report of Mr Napier Bell, lor which Mr Bell had been paid .fcSUO; but the fact was that it way ho (Mr Duthie) who had proposed that this report should ba obtained, and Mrhislicr at that time ridiculed the project lor which he cow. claimed full credit. (Laughter). Mr Dutliie went on to giVb the history of the lands in the possession ol" tlic Vveiiington Harbour Board to show chat tho Board had received no endow* mcixls, and had had to pay for all tho land that had been held. No unfair price had been paid for tho Grainger street block. Mr Duthio said ho stood there a*i a friend of the dock, and before bo had agreed to give his support to the Bill lie had had to be satisfied that it way not intended to withdraw from the dock scheme. His deliberate opinion was that if this Bill were not passed the Board would be hampered in its operations regarding the dock. Mr James Allen wondered at the reason for the opposition to this Bill ou the part of the Premier. Mr Scddou had gaincxl a friend by hiy opposition to the Bill, but he wondered also whether he was blocking tho Bill because of the condition of the London money market. It was clear, Mr Allen contended, that the Board would be just as much compelled to build the dock if this Bill went through as it was if no amendment were made in the Act at all. He urged the Premier to withdraw his opposition to the Bill. Tho Premier suggested, that the Bill should be sent to a committee for investigation. The motion for the third rending was carried by 37 votes to 15, and the Bill was p.tssed. Tho following is the division-list: Ayes, 37—Messrs J. Allen (Bruce), Arnold, Benuet, Bollard, Buchanan, Bncldo Davey, Duthie, Ell. W. Eraser (AVakaMcLachlan, McNab. Remington, Rhoden. Sir W. H. Bussell’ S;r W. J. Steward, Messrs Tanner, J. W. Thomson (Chtfha), Vile. Witty, Wood. Noes, 15—Messrs Carroll, Duncan. Field, Fisher, Flatman, Hail, Houston, litHvry, Major, McGowan, O’M earn Rutlierford, Seddon, Symes, Sir Joseph