EVENING SITTING.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXV, Issue 5024, 23 July 1903, Page 7

EVENING SITTING.

Tho -Uouso resumed at 7.30 p.m. MUTUAL Flß!'.' INSUiIAkNCH HILL. Mr KIJiKBIUUE moved the second reading of tlio Mutual Fire Insurance )sLl,|, providing that wherever one hundred or more persona shall have subscribed thoir names to a declaration that they have thereby bound themselves to form a Mutual hire Insurance Association for the purpose of insurance against loss or damage by lire to tho amount in the aggregate of not loss than £20,000, tho Governor-in-Council may, on tho fulfilment of certain conditions, grant a warrant to such persons accordingly. Tlio mover, in explaining tho purpose of bis measure, said it was framed on similar lines to a liijl in operation in Canada. His own idea was that such a measure should have been oa our statute book many years ago. Joint stock companion laid formed themselves into lino, and their charges were, particularly iu tho country districts, prohibitive. Ton years ago they were paying no moro than ss, 7s Gd, and 10s 0d” per cent, but tho rates had now risen to 10s and 18s 6d per cent. The people wero fighting one of the largest combines over formed in this country, and as a consequence not half of them were insuring their properties. The Premier had declared that a necessity existed for placing a check on these combines, and tho present measure would tend to accomplish that purpose. Ho was sure tho Government had tho welfare of the people at heart quite ns much .os the Canadian Government, and bo did not think wo should bo behind thorn in regard to legislation that would prove of such benefit to tlio pcoplo of .New Zealand. Tho speaker quoted facts and figures to show how satisfactory tho mutual firo insurance scheme was working in Canada, where it had been in existence for over thirty years, whilst tho United States of America also supplied us with an admirable example of the successful results accruing from mutual liro insurance. There was nothing like tho risk in New Zealand that there was in Canada, whore the companies insured against lightning and cyclones. Secretaries of agricultural societies and farmers’ unions could work such a liro insurance scheme in connection with their organisations with very littye clerical assistance. . When the Bill got into committee he would move that tho amount of £20,000 required to be subscribed bo increased to £30,000, aa it would be better to bo sure of their ground, and there would bo moro capital to begin with. Ho also suggested that tho period of insurance he for four years.

“ Sir JOSEPH WARD, in supporting the Bill, said his warm sympathies wore with the mover in the object that ho desired to attain. There were some points in it which required careful consideration, and he suggested teat when the second reading had boon taken ho should allow the Bill to go into committee for close investigation, so that when it came Before the House again members would bo in a position to throughly understand the various clauses and thus give tho measure their favourable Consideration. Ho was sure that mutual fire insurance companies, in tho light of Canadian exoorionee. would bo able to work successfully side by side with the-great existing companies. There was room for both, and be was convinced that any proposal of this kind would not miliato against the larger insurance companies doing business in this country. air MTT,T.AiR criticised several clauses of the Bill. Ho took exception in particular to tho proposal to give these mutual companies power to do general insurance business. If their operations wore confined to farmers’, business alone there could be no objection to tho scheme, wnich, an its present form, was scarcely acceptable. Messrs TV. Fraser, Buddo, Massey, Jennings. Hogg, T. Mackenzie, J. Allen, Hon J. McGowan, J. 0. Thomson, Xcawry, Tanner, Hang, Hall, O’Meara, ITordman, Flatman and Remington continued tho debate.

Replying after tho supper adjournment,

Mr KIRKBRTDE pointed out that the groat feature of this measure was that everyone who insured became a member of any mutual company formed. Ho desired to make it clear that only those who insured would become members of such companies. The present Bill was based on the Manitoba Act of 1892. Ho would be very pleased to have the measure referred into committee in order to clear up any points not properly understood. He thanked the representative*, of the Government and the members who had supported him in this measure, which would give great satisfaction to the country, by enabling people in the country districts to insure their property against fire at lower rates of interest than obtained at present. The second reading was carried by 62 votes to 3. TOTALISATOR ABOLITION BILL. Mr ELL moved the second reading of the Totalisator Abolition Bill amidst signs of some applause, which, the mover observed, assured him of the popularity of the measure. He traversed the penalties imposed upon gambling generally in this colony, and in doing this averred that the House had marked its disapproval of gambling from time to time by the laws it had placed upon the statute book. There wore as many bookmakers in the colony now as there were before tho totaliaatbr was legalised. The amount put through the totalisator was increasing at an alarming rate. Tho case against tho totalisator grow stronger every day, and every race mooting provided fresh cause to lament the day when the State gave its sanction to tho vice of gambling. Ho asked members to pay heed to tho condemnation of this gambling evil that had been made bv our Supremo Court Judges and Magistrates. (A member: “Are you iu favour of bookma. kers?”) “No, lam not,” continued Mr Ell. “and X have taken active steps hi my own city to prevent street betting.” He reminded the House that Napier. New Plymouth. Dunedin and WAi; n gton had passed by-laws against street betting, showing that city councils recognised tho evil results of gambling upon tho people _ residing in their towns. He maintained that the time had arrived when tho totalisator should he abolished from this country.

Mr BfUTHEtRiFOB-D might hare supported Mr Ell if ho had first brought in a. Bill bo suppress the bookmaker, as tho greater evil. It was impossible to suppress betting, which was inherent in human nature : but liko else it could bo abused. It was no uso trying to prevent it by legislaH o, l- „' riler P hjj l been a great increase of betting in England and Australia, Thoro no toinlisntor existed. Mr LAITRENSON commented on the fact that the State legalised a gambling machine, wiii'st at the same time it “ran in” tho Chinaman who p'ayod fan-tan. Ho asked members to .reconcile the incongruity. During the past, nine years the number of jockeys and others engaged in horse-racing had iu-

[ creased 51 per cent., whilst within tho I gaged m us- tnl occupiuinits had iai erca.'-'d by 20 |:, 30 per cunt.

I.hero was no 1 uniter debate, and Mr Jill having ivpiitu. 1 lie second reading was by 31 vote/, to 14. The following is the division-list;—

Ayes, I V. —Messrs K. G. Allen, Arnold, Bedford, Kil IVvids, Harding, H°gg, Jennings, J.aarensou, Sidey, Sir U . J. Steward, .Utss.-s Tanner, J, (J. Thomson, J. V.. Thomson. Xot.s, 31.—Me.-.-its Alison, Baiirnc, Bonnet, Bollard, Carroll, Colvin, Davry, Duuea.ll. A. L. JJ. Fraser, W. Fraser Graham, Hall, I tartly, ilorrkt;. Kidd, Lang, l.awry, .Lethbridge, Major, Massey, -McGowan, It. McKenzie, McLachlau, Millar, O Aicara, Parma, Perc. itoid, Hem in—ton, Sir ViTUiam Bussell, Messrs Rutherford, Smith, IV ill tv. Wood.

Pairs;—For—Messrs Taylor, Kirkbrido, Houston Halt-Jones, FlaUnan, \ i.e, Ail ken, T. .Mackenzie, Willis. A-am.st~.Ues.srs Lewis, Witlicford Hamm, Field, Mander. Rhodes, Dutliio, Ilorclinan, Buchanan. FENCING AAt EN j)M KMT- BILL. Mr Lethbridge moved the second reading of tho Fencing Amendment Bill, providing that every covenant or agreement made or entered into between any owners of adjoining lands for the purpose of modifying or varying the rights and liabiijitii-s conferred or imposed on them by the principal Act shall run with the land, whether assigns be named therein or not, and shall ho deemed to create an “ interest in land ” within tho meaning of the Land Transfer Act, 1885.

Tho second reading was agreed to

OTHER BILLS. Major Steward's Impounding Act Amendment Bril, defining what is meant by ■‘nearest pound,” was read a second tuno pro forma, and referred to tho Stock Commit toe. . Mr R. -McKenzie's Alining Act Amendment Bill, extending tho interpretation, of tho word “minor” in tho Act of IUU2, was road a second time, and referred to tho Alines Committee. DISTRICT COURTS. Mr HOGG moved the second reading of tho District Courts BUI, which is to extend the j nrisdictiou of District Courts in criminal cases. Ho said that tho Bill would save a considerable amount of money, to tho colony, and would also save tho time of witnesses who weru now required to travel to tho chief centres to give evidence for comparatively trivial _cuses. Air U'MjO.VIuA complained that the District Court JEidgeti wore now overworked, and while ho sympathised with tho member for Mastcrtou, ho hoped that if tho Bill wore passed, the number of District Court Judges would be increased. Ho advocated the establishment of a District Court at Pahlatua. Air HERIHES hold that tho District Court Judge should be put in. tho same position of independence as that occupied by tho Supremo Ccrarfc Judge. Until that wore done, ho should oppose tho proposal to extend tho jurisdiction as intended by this BUI. If tho Bill went into committee, lie would so.ek to add new clauses giving the District Court Judges tho status of Supremo Court Judges. Air BAG ME did not like the idea of extending tho powers of District Court Judges, as was proposed in, this'Bill. No man ehondd be appointed to eit on tho. judicial bench unless ho was appointed during goo'd behaviour, and unless tho salary was commensurate with the importance of the work iio was .aallcd upon bo do. Thors were very few men in tlio profession holding a position that would entitle them to occupy a scat on tho District Court Bench who would not scorn to accept the romuueraton offered, and no man ought to ho called upon to exercise tho many important functions appertaining to tho position of a District Court Judgo unless ho was a man in whom tho colony could have tho utmost confidence. Ho did not think they wore gcling to work the right way in this matter, and ho regretted that he would have to oppose tho measure.

Tho voting was equal—Ayes 10, noos 19. The SPEAKER gave his casting vote In favour of tho ayes, remarking that ho did so in order to allow members in a fuller House to express an opinion whether tho Bill should he carried to a further stage. Tho House rose at 12.15 a.m.