EVENING SITTING.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXI, Issue 4488, 16 October 1901, Page 7

EVENING SITTING.

Tho House rc&umed at 7.30 p.m. The Estimates. Consideration of tho Estimates for the Mines Department was resumed. Miscellaneous services. £16,0x5: Mr JaMES ALLEa said the xvoyal Commission on coal mines had ooeii of particular interest to him, as ho was interested in coal minng. The Commission reported that it had been two hours in one mine, and in another turooquarters of an hour. There were inspectors appointed to vigit tho mines, but complaints had boon made that the inspectors had not the time to spend m each mine to satisfy themselves as to tho safety or otherwise of the mine. Therefore, ho would like to know if three-quarters of an hour was sufficient to enable a Commission to decide on the safety or otherwise of a mine. For in the mine in which he was interested, tho shortest underground road was one mile. It had been said that tho men were afraid to report dangerous workings, for foar they would be dismissed. A miner was bound by law to report, and it was in me interest of tho mine managers that snob danger should bo reported. No mine manager would be such a foci as to dismiss a man for reporting danger. The Commission’s report ought to be reviewed by someone else. It was impossible for tho Commission to have examined the mines or taken the evidence in one important district where m had been for only four hours, and where there were several large and important mines, and two of-them admittedly dangeous. Mr R. McKENZIE complained of the fact that the House had not been given an opportunity of considering tile evidence adduced, before the Commission.. Mr J. ALLEN asked the Minister to give tho House an opportunity of reviewing the evidence given before the Coal Mines Commission, as he said only one side had been heard, and seme information had been incorrect. The PREMIER protested egainst Mr Allen prejudicing the House against the Commission’s report when tho evidence was’ not before the House. The report had been founded on trustworthy evidence and, in the case of the .allandale mines, upon the evidence of tne mine inspector. He read reports and evidence regarding the Allandale and other minesA long discussion ensued relating to the Coal Mines Commission’s report upon the Allandale mine. Finally, the vote was agreed to. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE. CLASS XI. Agricultural Department, £57,218: Mr LANG contended that farmer/ should be compensated for stock da. strqyed because of anthrax. Mr HOGG said the Agricultural De„ partment was one of the. most important in tho State, but the expenditure had increased enormously of late years. For instance, there were now some forty-five inspectors, costing about £12,000. Tho question for the House was whether the country could stand tho enormous ex penditure. Mr -HORNSBY referred to the increase in the salary of the Secretary and Chief Inspector from £550 to £6OO. Ilia four fruit experts had also an increase, yet the good that had accrued to the colony from the labours of these gentlemen wag practically nil. The fruit was decreasing, while the experts’ salaries were increasing. Ho would test the feeling of the House later on that point, but for the present he would move that the salary of the Secretary and Chief Inspector should be reduced by £6O, the amount of the increase. The feeling throughout the colony was one of great dissatisfaction in regard to the work of this officer and the mismanagement of his department. Mr McLACHLAN said he had much pleasure in seconding the motiqrf. He went on to refer to the Californian thistle.

Mr T. MACKENZIE said the debate on this point would probably, take two hours, and then the salary would not be reduced. He did not believe in the hap.. hazard way of -moving reductions in the first salary that came under notice. Why, if some of the Government mem. bers wanted reductions, did they not form a caucus, and represent the necessity for reduction to Ministers ? Mr PIBANI said the protest of members was not against individuals at all, but because this was not a time for increases. Mr G. W. RUSSELL generally criti. cised the salaries enumerated. • Sir J. G. WARD said the officer in question (the Secretary) was at the head of a very important department, one that did much good to the country, and he had very important work to do, and had great responsibility. Mr FISHER asked what effect. whe_ thor a salary was too high or too low, could, be produced by discussion? The Estimates up to the present had not been reduced by one smiling. Hd knew nothing about the department, hut he had heard members of the House say the department was in a horrible condition. The Estimates were now before the House, and. the men were there. Now was the time for these members to speak. Major STEWARD (the Chairman) said the hon member must keep to the subject before the House. Mr FISHER: These rulings are perplexing. If I may not_ discuss the sub. ject, I may at least sit down. (Laughter.) Mr HORNSBY complained that sala. ries were generally too high. It had been said that the Chief Inspector had to travel all over the country. If he did m he was well paid for it, for full lrav_ elling expenses would be drawn. Mr BOLLARD said that the Secretary for Agriculture was filling a difficult position well. Mr GILFEDDER said that there t.m considerable dissatisfaction in his dis. triot in regard to the manner in which the Secretary for Agriculture was administering the Rabbit Act. Mr HOGG agreed with Mr Fisher that the Estimates had not been reduced by a shilling; hut at the same time he could not agree with Mr Fisher that it was useless to discuss the Estimates. It was Necessary to discuss them, in order that the country at large might see who the members were who were in favour of the raising of salaries. Mr FISHER said that some of the speeches and votes of the member for Masterton in that House contrasted most singularly with his speech just delivered. and the vote he proposed lo give. He reminded the House, for instance, of Mr Hogg’s speech on the vote of £2250 to the Governor. Mr HOGG: No analogy whatever. Mr FISHER advised Mr Hogg, if he had any analytical capacity in his intellectual composition, to sit down quietly, and have a look at his rotes, and see what ho thought of them. Mr LAURBNSON did not think that £6OO was an extravagant salary for a man who managed an important depart ment like that of Agriculture. He had listened with amazement to the speech delivered by Mr Hogg, who had cast various votes this session in the direction of increasing the amounts paid to ornamental individuals. The Hon Mr DUNCAN, in defence of

tho Secretary for Agriculture, said that ten years ago he had been chosen at £SOO to manage the Stock Department, and .sinco that time ho had done good work. Ho had organised the dairy portion of the department, and had done excellent work in other ways. Tho veterinary surgeons would not cost tho colony one shilling, as they would be placed in charge of abattoir business generally, and tho foes paid would meet this cost. It had taken the Sccruwrry of Agriculture ten years to got £3O added to his salary ; while in various ways;—as in the purchase of horses, for instance ho had seved tho colony several thousands of pounds. Mr O’MEARA wanted to know how tho inspectors under this department were paid—whether by favour, by experience, or knowledge, or by long ser. vice ? He pointed out that the inspector in Napier received £lO less than those in Wellington and Auckland. Captain RUSSELL also drew atten. tion to this question. The MINISTER stated that the inspector in Wellington had one-third more work to do than the man in Na-

pier. , Mr McLACHLAN denounced the purchase of the “ trashy ” horses of which the Minister had spoken. Mr G. J. SMITH drew attention to the fact that the members representing agricultural districts who were now attacking Mr Ritchie had in the time of Sir John McKenzie congratulated the Minister upon the fact that Mr Ritchie wag at the head of the department. Mr Ritchie could not be regarded as less efficient because he had had two years’ extra experience. Mr HOGG denied the charge of in, consistency brought against him by Messrs Fisher and Laurenson on account of his vote on the Royal Expenses Bill. He had voted for that Bill because he believed that the expenses were reasonable, and that the colony ought to pay them; but he had a perfect right to critioiso salaries, which comprised a recurring expenditure. Mr BUDDO said that, haying seen the horses imported by tne Agricultural De. partment, has opinion wag that they wore exactly of the kind suitable for the breeding of remounts. Mr MEREDITH opposed the increase to the Secretary for Agriculture. The vote for the reduction of the salary of the Secretary. £6OO, by £SO, was lost by 32 votes to 20. In the course of further discussion, Mr Bollard suggested tho establishment of a School of Veterinary Surgeons m this country. Mr WITHEFORD spoke of the good work done by' Mr Cameron in preventing the practice of gelling inferior meat ag meat from New Zealand. The MINSITBR said, in reply to a question, that the inspectors had been given instructions in regard to the Noxious Weeds Act, but this was a difficult mat, tor, and could not be put into operation all at once. He was in favour of a School for Veterinary Surgeons. _ The veterinary surgeons who had been introduced into the colony were to carry out work in inspecting the abattoirs throughout New Zealand, and to visit districts where mortality in stock occurred. Mr SYMES urged that the sheep tax should be reduced in consequence, of the fall in the price of wool. In answer to Mr Lang, the Premier said that tho department was grappling with the question of anthrax. He himself questioned whether it would not be a better course to shut out bones from Australia altogether and use other manures. _ , A motion by Mr Pirani to reduce the vote by £5 was lost, and after further discussion the vote was agreed to. Miscellaneous services, £34,663: Mr PIRANI recommended the establishment of a Dairy School at Palmerston, as it would he more central than the one at Stratford. The school which it was proposed should be established at Levin would be a hideous failure* Some discussion then took place on the recent importation of horses, which Mr Herries described as a useless waste of money. The vote was ultimately agreed to. At ,3.5 a.m., Mr Pirani moved to re. port progress. Tho motion was lost, and tho House proceeded to discuss the defence estimates. -