PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXI, Issue 4478, 4 October 1901, Page 7

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY,”OCTOBER 3. The Speaker took tho chair at 3.30 p.m. Mortgages of Land Bill. Tho Statutes Revision Committee reported having considered the Mortgages of Land Bill, and having taken the evidence of the Registrar-General of Land. Tho committee recommended that the Bill should-bo allowed to proceed, with certain amendments in the schetlules.

Blaokwatrr River. Tho Petitions Committee reporting on the petition of tho Blaokwater River Hold Dredging Company, praying for tho declaring of tho Blackwatei river as a sludge channel, recommend it to the consideration of the Government. Tho Hon 11. H. J. Reeves gave notice that ho would move that the report should bo agreed to. School Attendance'Bill.

On tho motion of tho Hon W. C. Walker, tho (school Attendance Bill was re-committed. One of the principal amendments is to clause 7, and in tuo direction of allowing cases against parents for not sending children to school to bo hoard with closed doors with tho consent of tho parent. In answer to questions as to the reason for this, the Hon Vv. C. Walker said it was vhry reasonable that proceedings of this sort might bo hoard, so that as, little friction as possible would take place. If tho parent thought there was any injustice he could object to closed doors-

Tho matter wag in tho discretion of the Magistrate, and if it was a bad case tho Magistrate would refuse to have the doors closed.

Tho Hon C. C. BOWEN supported tho amendment. Ho thought it wag a very just proviso. The Hon W. M. BOLT opposed tho amendment, which, -upon division, wag carried by 23 votes to 6.

A new clause, 4a, provideg that if ten or more children resident in a school district are on the roll of a school other than a public school, the head teacher of that gchool may apply for and receive from the chairman or secretary of the Board a general certificate of exemption for such children upon satisfying tho Board that efficient and regular instruction is given at such school, the attendance register being open to the Truant Officer or tho secretary of the Board.”-The clause wag carried on the voices.

Other now clauses relate to the establishment of truant schools, providing that an Education Board may, with the sanction of the Minister of Education, establish truant schools, or may convert any public school into and establish it as a truant school. In lieu of, or in addition to, penalties prescribed, the Magistrate may order a child to bo sent to a truant school for a period of not loss than six months. a The clause also giyes the head teaoher of a truant school the powers of a truant officer. Upon evidence of a child failing to attend regnhirly after being sent to a truant school, the Magistrate may commit the child to an industrial school. The Hon W. C. WALKER said the treatment of truant children should ho as reasonable as possible. On the other hand, it wag desired to l ' compel parents neglecting their duty to send their children to school. The Hon G. JONES asked how the innovations wore to bo financed. The Hon C. C. BOWEN said there would be considerable difficulty in discriminating between whether a child was a fit subject for a truant or industrial school. The Hon W. C- WALKER replied that ho thought the finance would come from the educational funds of the Boards. Tho proposal was a very fair method of dealing with a difficult position.

Tho Hon H. SCOTLAND said he objected to the idea of truant schools. The Hon W. 0. WALKER said that truant schools in other countries had been found most useful in keeping children from tho By rendering the ■way of tho incorrigibles hard and .more difficult, the measure would reduce the number of them and reduce the tendency to become incorrigibles- Measures before the other House would go towards settling the question of finance. If children sent to a f'ruant school did not turn up each morning they might expect trouble. A truant t school was something of the same kind as a day industrial school. The Hon A. L. SMITH said tho measure would be of no use in small towns and villages, 1 ‘ The Hon W. 0. WALKER replied that he could not see why because it was impossible to apply tho measure in the country it should not bo applied in the cities, where it was urgently necessary. '

The Hon J. M. TWOMEY said that such schools would create invidious distinctions,. and thus there could bo no moral effect. Tho measure would bo a dead letter, and'no Education Board would souander money on the idea. The,,Hon W. KELLY did not see how the measure could bo worked. Tho schopls.would be in the centres of population and no use in smaller boroughs.

The Hon H. DOUBLET was in favour of tho proposal. Many children could be sent to the truant schools whom the Magistrate would not commit to an industrial school. Any measure was good which wont towards keeping .children at school.

The Hon W. M. BOLT said his only Objection wag that Education Boards, with their limited funds, might not take Up the idea. Tim Hon W. C. WALKER replied that finder the new proposal the extra expense would bo borne by the Boards’ general funds. Children in a truant sobool would not cost over £5 a head, whereas in industrial schools they cost from £lB to £2O per annum. The Hon C. C. BOWEN asked if the money would be independent of the votes to Education Boards? There was a strong feeling at present that the amounts granted to Boards were’barely sufficient to support the _ Such experiments might bo very well tried at the expense of the State, but not at the expense of the schools. The Hon W. C. WALKER replied that proposals were before the other House, for the payment of teachers and the encouragement and assistance of the finance of Education Boards, and under the new proposals the truant schools would not cost the Boards a penny more than at the present time. . The clauses were carried on the voices. Further new clauses providing for the education of blind and deaf children were agreed to, and the Bill reported. The Council rose at 4.15 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES THHRSDAyT” OCTOBER 3. The House met at 2.30 p.m., Mr Guinness in the chair. Leave of Absence. One week’s leave of absence was grant* ed to Captain Russell, on account of ill. health.' Leave of absence for the remainder of the session was granted to Mr E. M. Smith. Questions were answered, and the House adjourned at 6.30 p.m.

EVENING SITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Conciliation and' Arbitration.

On the question of tho committal of tho Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Amendment Bill, Mr JtliSlUUiiiSj moved that it should bo an instruction to the uomm.-.00 on tho Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Amendment Hill to further amend tho principal Act in the direction of bringing the Crown and the Departments of tho State and the workers employed by them under the provisions of the Act.

The PREMIER raised a point of order that such an instruction could enly come down by Governor’s message. To Drmg tho departments of ...-ate within mo Act would give tho Arbitration Court powor of increasing or reducing wages of servants of tho Crown. If the v-ourt gave an award increasing the rate of pay sot by tho Crown, tho power had therefore been taken away from tho Crown. Power would thus bo given -o an Arbitration Court of taxing the country, and no such power snould be vested in any authority outside the Crown. Mr MASSEY contended that the motion was only an expression of opinion, and did not come within the scope of tho standing order raised by tho Premier.

Tho DEFDTY.SPEAKBR said ho had no difficulty in the matter. . The authority on tho subject was clear that such a motion was not in order, and it would therefore be ruled out.

When the Bill was committed, Mr G. J. SMITH protested that two or three days after tho Labour Bills Committee had dealt with this Bill, the Premier had given notice of seven new clauses, which made this practically a new measure.

The PREMIER said that various suggestions had boon made to him by deputations, after the Bill had come before tho committee. Tho difficulty in refer, ring this to the Labour Bills Committee wag that at this gtago of the session the Bill would be jeopardised.

On clause 2. which includes within the scope of this Act all trades unions registered under tho TradesUunxon .act,, ivir HARRIES said ho did not think trades unions should bo pub into the position of becoming parties to an industrial agreement unless power was given to enforce tho award when it was made, and to elect members ot the Board. Tho PREMIER said that this clause would be consistent with section iO of the Industrial Conciliation and ArJltra. tion Act of last session. He had brought down, the proposal to bring in trades unions bocaus o ho saw that there was a danger of unions being formed which would not form part of an industrial union, and would, therefore, not be bound by an award. The employers did not want it. and tho workers did not want it; but ho thought it right that Parliament should have an opportunity of discussing the matter. Mr JAMES AL1,,.., s a id that this Act had never been properly tried, and he believed that When the day of trial came it would tumble down like a pack of cards. Still, all members wished to see-strikes stepped, but he wished to know if this was an effort on the part of the Premier to prepare for tho day of trial. '

The PREMIER pointed out that by clause 4 of the present Bill trades unions were • made parties to an industrial agreement. Ho had seen that a difficulty would arise, but a s neither party wanted this change, why should he trouble about it ? Mr MERRIES thought that the trades unions were being put into a false position by the present Bill. • Mr TANNER urged that the Trade Union Act should be reviewed, for whilst this ,dual registration went on there would always be confusion. Mr ARNOLD considered that the amendments in the Bill now before the House were desirable, and should be carried into law. Mr ATKINSON held that the amend, ment would not accomplish what the Premier hoped for it.

Mr HUTCHESON admitted that tho Premier, of all men, wished that this Act should be a good Act. Ho believed that men smarting under an adverse decision of the Court might be induced to withdraw from the industrial union, and thought that this should oe prevented; but at the-same 'time he thought the matter ought to bo carefully considered. The PREMIER, in the course of further discussion, said he was certain that the legislation of tho Government on this subject would stand the test of depression. It had preyed beneficial to both employers and employed. He was sorry that statements to the contrary effect had been sent Homo, and it was his intention to controvert those statements, and that from both employers and employed, As Minister of Labour, he declared that although our legislation was not perfect, we had to a great extent gone a long way to solve a . problem which had troubled the civilised world. .

A long discussion followed, and finally clause 2 was passed, with the addition of an amendment fay Mr Atkinson to ihe effect that the definition of “trades unions ” should include those unions registered under the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act.

Clause 3, registering foreign companies represented by agents, and clause 4, making trades unions parties to /industrial agreements, were agreed to. The technical amendments made by the Labour Bills Committee in clause 6 were agreed to.

Clause 6 of the Bill amending section 37 of the principal Act, was struck out. On the motion of Mr Herries, clause 9 was amended by the addition of words amending section 74 of the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act by inserting the words “ trades union” after tlje words “ industrial union.” ' This is a consequential amendment, in view of clauses 2 and 4 having boon carried. The remaining, clauses of the Bill passed without amendment. A now clause was proposed by the Premier as follows: —“The definition of ' worker ’ in the principal Act is hereby repealed, and the following substituted in lieu thereof: ‘Worker’ means any person of any ago of either sex employed by any, employer to do any skilled or unskilled manual or clerical work for hire or reward, but does not. extend to any person employed in any agricultural or pastoral pursuit.” A further amendment by xur G. J. Smith was agreed to, providing that a worker should mean “any person .of any age of either sox employed by any employer to do any skilled or unskilled manual or clerical work for hire or reward.”

A discussion took place as to how this would affect those engaged in the farming industry. The Premier agreed to amend the clause so that it would read as follows: —“ The dofiition of ‘worker’ in the principal Act shall not include any person employed in any agricultural or pastoral pursuit.”—After considerable debate, the Premier’s amendment was agreed to. A now clause was added, on the motion of the Premier, to provide that awards made prior to the passing of the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act shall continue in force until a new award is made-'

It was also proposed by the Premier that the Court should he empowered to extend an award to any person, indus-

trial union, or industrial association not an original party thereto. This was amended on tho motion of Mr Herries to provide that tho award should bo thus extended only to those in the district and engaged in the industry to which the award applies; and in this amended form tho clause was carried. A new clause was also added, on the motion of tho Premier, enabling ute Court to make an award which snould be applicable to the whole of the various trades constituting tne business of one employer. Mr CARNCROSS moved a new clause which the Premier Had brought uown, out had afterwards abandoned. This clause enables tho Court to grant an application for the extension et an award to any person,' employer, industrial union, or industrial association within the industrial district in winch tho award is to have etfect, or to limit the operation of an award to any particular locality. ( This clause was agreed to. Mr WILiAS moved a new clause, altering the constitution of the Conciliation Boards, by providing that tho members should decide any dispute referred to them by the uo vomer, and should bo elected by the employers and employees affected by any particular dispute, on the filing of the dispute. The PREMIER hoped.that this question would not be raised at the present time, rxe had already himself prepared an amendment 01 tho law, with the object of vesting the powers of the Conciliation Boards in the Stipendiary Mag. istrato of th e district. Mr G. \V. RUSSELL: Would ho not call in assessors to his assistance P The PREMIER: No. Mr RUSSELL: But he will require experts. Tho PREMIER: He will got that by tho evidence. Mr Seddon, continuing, said he thought that the best thing to do would he to let matters remain as at present until next session, and if they found that the condition of affairs was still unsatisfactory, they could then deal with it. . Mr Willis withdrew* his proposed amendment. Mr PIRANI thereupon moved a now clause amending section 50 of the principal Act in the direction he had previously suggested. The PREMIER accepted this amendment, remarking that it was evident members wanted a change, and the clause was then agreed to. ‘ , Mr HUTCHESON moved a new clause to prohibit any person in the employ of the Government from appearing before or being elected a member of a Board or Court. This was lost by 32 votes to 19. Mr WILLIS moved a now clause to enable either party to go direct to the Arbitration Court in any dispute. The clause was carried by 80 to 18. . The Bill was reported from committee, and the Premier moved the third reading, the debate on which was proceeding as we went to press.