PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXI, Issue 4434, 14 August 1901, Page 7

PARLIAMENT.

LSGJSUVriVE COUNCIL, TUESDAY, AUGUST 13. Tim Kpr:ikit look the chair at il.OfJ p.m. Petition. The lion W. T. Jennings presented a petition mi behalf /if U. \on Blarem berg praying for Ihe removal o( alleged disabilities Uri'lef which lie had e l l it r -v''■ I by reason of the operation- of the Education Act of 1577 c,a using his " '.'l'uci suffering ami irretrievable ruin.’ Land far Setticmant. The Lam! for SHI innont. Bill was rep/irl.erl from :1m Waste Lunds Commit tee, ami ivae nimle an order of the day for Wednesday. Sitiops a,n:3 CHU-sas. It v.ij.! i-ckolvcil Hal Hie evidence . ia|mn by llm Labour Bilk; Commillee of tii;, Coimeil rclati** to Hm Shops ami ()jiio”S Lilt ho -printed amt circilhdod. Schr?c.S Attooidarsco BalL The Hon J. KERR moved the second I'ca.diiiK of Hie State School Children Drill liill. v, bicli, li» argued. would go far to renicdv the slouching Rail of n number of the school children ol New Z“a!alul. The MINI ST ER of EDUCATION was of opinion Unit the principal Act made all Um provisions that the Bill before the Homo aimed al. He did not v.-i-.h to apeak disrespectfully of the Bill, hut ho was of opinion that it had been hadlv drawn up. The (foils T. Kelly, George Jones and Caplain Bnilli.e thought the Bill was unnecessary. for similar reasons to llio.se adduced" by the .Minister of Education. The lion Colonel I’ITT would snp port the second reading; cf the Bill for the reason Unit h« approved its prin ciplcs. c.-pfcially ibi provision for training girls as well as hovs. The Hon M. SCOTLAND thought the playgrounds of the schools, aliorded the very best of physical drill. if semimilitary drill was to ho introduced the already limited time tor school duties would he prejudicially strained. The Bill was read a second time on (he voices, and was then (mi the morion of (ho Ifnn T. Kelly) referred to U.o Statutes Revision Committee for the elimination of mailer which might ha considered unnecessary. ’VoWUvHJci County. The Wondvillo County Hill was passed through committee, am) sfit.down for its third reading ucr.t day. Wdßingfccnri E-fciPbOUK’ Soard. The Hon C. J. JOHNSTON moved the socnufl reading of the Wellington Harbour Board Act, 1870, Amendment Hill. The Hon J. E. JEN KIN.SON did not wish to show any captions opposition to the measure, but instancing bygone experiences, ho urged upon the Council the necessity of carefully investigating Bills emanating from the two largest public bodies of" Wellington. He spoke of the proposal to erect hnalsheds on the reclaimed esplanade by the Harbour Board—a breach of the spirit of the authority given by Parliament. He was glad to hoar that a petition was being prepared asking the Minister for Alar ino to withhold his consent to the erection of the sheds. Tho Tlort T. KELLY would like the Bill postponed for further consideration. Tho Council load not been given sufficient,, opportunity to investigate* the case, and what had fallen from the pre vious speaker had raised in his mind a doubt as to the merits of the Wellington Harbour Board. He moved that tho debate be adjourned. Tha Hon W. O. SMITH could .see nothing unfair in the Bill. It was the same ns others which had been often brought in by other harbour hoards. The Hon C. J. JOHNSTON nointed out that Hie vnaip object of the Bill was to extend the scope of representation on tho Board, Ho hoped the Hon Mr Kelly would withdraw his amendment. He would have ample opportunity to incpiiro further into the Bill in its Inter stages. Tho Hon T. K KIVLV withdrew his amendment, and the Bill was then read a second time, and its committal set down for next day.

Chairmanship of Committees Th» long deferred discussion on the question raised by the Hon R. H. J. Reeves, “ That it is desirable that the standing order of the Council be amended so that an annual ballot be taken for the election of Chairman of Committees df the Council, and that it be an in* struction to the Standing Orders Com rnittee to prepare the necessary new order,” was resumed by the Council. The Hon W. C. SMITH spoke to the question, urgingjthat if any alteration was made it should be in the direction of doing away with the ballot system as practised in tho Council. The Hon R. H. J. REEVES, in leply. said that the main recommendation of the change would bo the power it would give to resist the attempts that might be mad© to foist upon the Council a person who was not popular. Tho Hon W. C. SMITH, with .some heat, replied that the Hon Mr Reeves was anxious to bo a candidate for the office himself at last election. Mr Reeves denied this. Tho vote was then taken; Ayes. 16; noes, 6. The minority comprised the Minister of Education. Major Harris, and Messrs Scotland, Smith, T. Keliy and F. Ark wright. Tho Council adjourned at 3.45 p.m. HOUSE or REPRESENTATIVES TUESDAY. ~AUGUST 13. Tho Speaker took the chair nt 2.30 p.m. New E>!33. The Egmont County Bill (Mr McGuire) was read a first time. A number of questions were answered, and the House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Rating on Unimproved Values The debate on the second reading of tho Rating on Unimproved Values Bill was continued. Mr ARNOLD objected to tho “poor working mall ” being dragged into every measure that came before the House. Those who were so glib about dragging him in would be found voting against his interests when the time came. The assertion brought forward that those who were going to vote against rating on unimproved values w'ero making for a return to tho property-tax was ah surd. There were two sides to the case. The unimproved value of land was the prairie value of it—and those who spoke of increased value derived from population were nob consistent. Mr POWLDS thought he should know something of the subject. He had been instructed during his recent_ visit to Auckland by s ome of the leading lights in that city. He was now more con . vineed than ever that the only equitable manner of raising taxes was by rating on unimproved values- , He thought the Government should reverse the present order of things, and make it .necessary for any place desirous to

do away with rating on unimproved values to do so by a local option polliio 1, as at present, for a local body to go to the expense of a poll before the principle could he coopted. -\ c ’ > ,I h' everv poll which had been taken hither* to had resulted favourably to the pnu ciple of retirin' on unimproved values. .Mr HUTCHESON believed that the most iti**t system of raising taxes was ho levy lb-mi on unimproved values. But h<* also believed in freedom and in tru.’-t----iug (he people. The Bill was an :nvi(at ion to the people to he voluntarily shackled. As first ini rod need the Lull was liras', ic and compulsory. It had siuo- hseu p/Jufed out that the Govern incut had agreed to allow any local hodv objecting to the principle to diciaro by ballot that it would not accept jl. He (.Mr Hutcheson) thought the bodies which wished to adopt the system should he the ones to move in the matter of a ballot. As to the pro miso of the Government, he would remind the. House that a somewhat similar promise of last session made by the Premier had been subsequently defeated hv a. heating up of opponents, who warn led on hv the Premier himself. He would do his best (o get tho cith'.cns of We!lingl/ui to adopt the principle oi rating on unimproved values, hut he looked upon the Bill as a. grotesque llaseo. He would oppose it because of its com-puk-orv nature. Mr WTI HEEORT) objected to the Hoii-o wasting its time in discussing su-li a useless subject as the single tax.

which was really the subject of the Bill before the House. U the Government would devote its energies to doing something praolieal to place (he young men of the colony on the land it would do far more good. Mr SY.AIKS thought that the Bill ho fore the House was one which made for tho benefit, of Ihe country. He represented a. district where the nriu-dpu oh tained, and it was sum ■■■teres —n.- •') (hero to get enough men to do work. Bating on prairie value was the only itist and r.puiti.h’e mode of taxation. He would vote for the second reading of Hm Bill, not. because it was necessary for his constituency, hut because it would he for the benefit of the colony. Mr COLLINS said that while in the main lie agreed with the principle of rating on unimproved values, ho rccog nised that it would not remove all the anomalies. Therefore, he thought it would ho hotter to leave to each community (lie right to say whether or not it would adopt the principle. For that reason mainlv he Would vote against He Bill. Mr GUINNESS believed that a uniform system of levying rates was highly desirable. (Hear, hear.) The answer to those who were -so anxious to trust the people was to allow them to vote. The people did not vote on such subjects at present ; it was only those who directly paid rates. Dir Hutcheson : This Bill docs not extend tho franchise.) The in dneomeufc which tlic system would otter peop'e to put up .substantial buildings on vacant allotments would make for cheap rents. One big argument for the passing of the Bill was that it would do

away with differential rating. It was absurd to see—ft?, it sometimes happened —ono side of a street taxed on one system and the other side taxed on another. The matter of expense often kept, a. district, which Was in favour of the system from instituting ft poll. This the Bill would remedy. He would cor din I Iv- and heartily support it. Mr FIELD .supported the Bill on the main principle that it would remove taxes from industry. Speaking generally it was the small man who was going to benefit by th P Bill. Mr MeGITIRE thought the Bill too 'drastic. Ho had no objection to rating on unimproved land values, but the compulsory clauses ho considered altogether objectionable. Because of the compulsory clauses ho would vote against the Bill. Mr J. W. THOMSON said that all the arguments in favour of the Bill could bo put into two. One was -hat it would encourage people to put up buildings. Ho could not see much in that. Buildings would be put Up ns they were required in any case. The other argument was that it would prevent speculation by what was now clas sically termed “ the fat man.” It seemed to him. though, that its object would bo to encourage speculation. Its effect would bo to make the “fat” person pay less and the “lean” individual "pay more. (No, no!) He could not see aav justice in that.

The PREMIER, iu reply, said hat notwithstanding the proti-actod nature of the debate, he thought good would come of it. Members who bad opposed the Bill whilst stating that they were in favour of rating on unimproved values, were in a very illogical position. If an attempt were made to reintroduce the property tax, or the taxing of land on tho capital value, there would not be ten members of the House who would stand up in favour of it. (Hoar, hear.) He quoted from previous division lists to show that Mr G. W. Russell had voted for the second and third readings of Bills containing this urincinle, but yet iu his speech in the present debate ho had expressed himself in entire opposition to rating on unimproved values. Moreover, Mr Russell had voted for an amendment proposed by Mr Fowkls which would have all rates levi ed on the unimproved values. The commenting on_ this, said that in all his Parliamentary' experience he had never known such glaring inconsistency. Mr Seddon went on to say that he believed in equality of sacrifice, and he scouted the suggestion that rating on the unimproved values would lead to the single tax, pointing out that he was not a single taxer. As to the result of the poll in Auckland, the Premier said that this was only the sixth poll in which the principle had been rejected, out of thirty-three ,jjlls which had been taken. Why should non. members be guided bv the six polls nt which this principle had been rejected, instead of the thirty at which it had been carried? He had no fear of tho result of such a poll under a franchise which would represent the people instead of interested parties. Mr LA WRY; But you will have to change tho franchise. Mr SEDDON: That jp coming, make no mistake about if. The time is coming when all elections will be conducted on the general roll. With regard to the objection Riat the rates on racecourses and sports grounds would be increased under tho Bill, Mr Seddon said he thought there, was too much sport iu New Zealand, and said that private persons owning sports grounds and making huge profits could well afford to pav an increased rato. What had heen said as to the graduated land tax would strengthen his position in what was to come, and that in the near future. Mr Seddon quoted figures to show how the new system would operate. The motion for the second reading was carried bv 27 votes to 23. ” Ayes, 27—E. G. Allen. Carroll, Dun, can. Ell. Field. Fisher, Flatman, Fowldsj Guinness. Hall-Jones, Hogg, Hornsby, Houston, Laurenson. Lawry, McGowan. McGuire. Mills, O’Meara, Rarata Seddon, Stevens, Steward, Symes, Tanner, Ward and Willis. Noes, 23 — Rennet, Bollard. Collins, A. D. Fraser, Graham. Hardy, Haselden. Herries, J. Hutcheson. Lang, Lethbridge. Massey McNab. Millar, Monk. Pirani, Rhodes. W. R. Russel), G. J. Smith. R. Thompson. J. W. Thomson and Witheford. [Mr McGuire, who remained in the

House for the division, remember: d that he had paired with Mr 30. M. Sindh and therefore, according to I'arliamcn arv image, voted.,ns the member for New Plymouth would have pone had he been present.! The House adjourned at 10.30 p.m.