FEDERATION.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXXI, Issue 3948, 13 January 1900, Page 3

FEDERATION.

NEW ZEALAND'S RELATION THERETO. right hon g. h. reid’s OPINION. AUSTRALIAN CONDITIONS REVIEWED. SOME QUESTIONS FOR NEW ZEALANDERS. The Right Hon G. H. Reid, ex-Pre-mier of New South Wales, and Leader of the Opposition in that colony, whose championship of the federation question in Australia led to the move‘irfftnt reaching its present forward stage, was interviewed by a “Times” reporter at Searl’s Hotel yesterday afternoon. “What do you think New Zealand’s attitude in regard to the question of federation with Australia should be?” asked the reporter. “It is a matter which you will hare to think out for yourselves,” was the response.. “We’ think you ought to come in, but we have no particular fooling one way or the other. The matter is entirely one for yourselves to make up your minds about. If it were thought you wanted to come in there is every desire that you should, but there is, I think, a feeling in Australia that you don’t want to come in, and we don’t bother about it any further.” Then Mr Reid started to rub it in. He complained serio-comioally that New Zealanders do not take Australia seriously. “In fact, I believe you speak of t.ho ‘adjacent island.’ 1 used to think you referred to Stewart’s Island, but I suppose now you meant that small island called Australia. It is true that distance adds and abets'-.a spirit of aloofness. That cannot be avoided : but, notwithstanding that, it is a matter of serious consideration for you whether you will go into the grand enterprise now, or whether von will allow the several colonies to form a federation without you.” “With Australia federated,” continued Mr Reid, “New Zealand must always play second fiddle. The question is whether she hadn't better be in the orchestra than plav a solo all by herself. Rut I say again it is n matter for the Now Zealand people, and not for us. We have had the same views and prejudices brought up in Australia in opposition to the movement as have been brought forward here. There is always the fear on the part of the individual colony that it will he absorbed in the larger combination.” “It is thought,” said the interviewer, “that New Zealand should 1 stand apart and work out its own destiny in its own wav, especially as the genius and tendencies of the people are different in many respects from those of the Australians. We feel that we are in some degree a different people, living in a different environment , and embracing to n large extent different ideals and observing different customs. Then there is the climatic differentiation—the effect of climate upon social customs, upon morals and manners.” A FAMILY LIKENESS. “I do not,” Mr Reid responded, “see any difference between the people of Now Zealand and the people of the Australian colonies which I cannot see in any family in New Zealand —one of the sons is hound to be lively, another is bound to be more sedate, one going in for serious occupations, the other going in for very lively amusements; but I see everywhere just the same race of people. Of course, the people here are more robust-looking than our bush, population, but, taking the ‘ inhabitants of Sydney and Melbourne, while they are decidedly different, it doesn’t occur to an Australian to imagine any racial divergence. Take my own case, for instance. It has never once crossed my mind that I had got into a new country—l mean as far as the people are concerned. I felt in going np and down your towns just as if 1 was walking along one of the streets of an Australian city. Now, as regards onr climate, yon must not forget that some of the noblest evolutions of which mankind have been capable have taken place in hot climates. New Zealanders always seem to look upon the climate of Australia as if it were invariable; but this is not a singular thing, because there is a distinct kind of patriotism ruling right throughout the colonies, which makes each one believe that it has climatic advantages' which others have not, and is capable of astoundingly better results in point of productiveness.” THE SPIRIT OP PATRTOTISM. * “I will give you an amusing example of this. Recently in the Sydney Club I met a man from the Gulf of Carpentaria on what happened to be an exceedingly hot day. ‘Talk about Queensland heat,’ said he. ‘Why, we never in our lives have a day like this up at Normar.ton or Rockhampton.’” “That,” continued Mr Reid, “is patriotism, and you see it constantly in all sorts of forms. "Wherever you go it is the one most amiable feeling. It always reminds me of the famous cricket match which Dickens has pourtrayed, between, I think, Dingley Dell and Muggleton. You go to any small village—it is the most interesting village in any part of Australia in which you happen for the moment to be. These are the primitive instincts of an incipient civilisation, but it is very interesting all the same.” “New Zealanders, who are strong on climate,” remarked Mr Reid, looking complacently waistcoatwards, “are staggered to know that I weigh over 18 stone. They cannot understand why I am not pulled down to some extent; but here I am. Speaking seriously, however, I have formed a most favourable opinion of not only the natural resources and climate of New Zealand, but also of the people of New Zealand. Being a bit of a Scotchman myself, I attribute it to some extent to the fact that a very large proportion of ’the people are Scotch. As far as I have seen of the towns of New Zealand, there are no slums, no mendicants, of the professional order at any rate, or I should have seen them, and there seem not to be those huge chasms between _ classes in the community which exist in other communities—and not monarchical communities either. Now in this country what strikes me as a thing to bo greatly admired is that there do not seem to be any very rich people, and there do not seem to be any very poor people. Of course, .‘I am only generalising from general observation.” NEW ZEALAND’S ADVANTAGES. “Of course, it won’t do to leave you in any spirit of undue pride,” continued Mr Reid, “because I find one dominant reason for this happy • state 1 of affairs, and it is the fact that you have no one overgrown metropolis, such as we have in Australia; yon have four capitals at convenient distances, all containing a population of about ! AO,OOO souls. Now, if you could send out of the metropolis of SycTney, for' instance, 200,000 people into the country, leaving 200,000 in the town, . we would have no slums either, and - oiir colony would he infinitely more-pros-perous than it is. If you work out, - , the I figures you will find that Sydney! relatively, has a larger proportion of popu- 1 lation than London. London carries a seventh or eighth of the total popu-.

lation of the United Kingdom, whereas Sydney contains a third or a fourth of (ho population of New South Wales. This, notwithstanding that the colony is as large as France ami England combined. Now that accounts for a food deal of the difference which I ave noted.”

“Again, if you went over to Sydney to-morrow and wanted to get out of a population of 430,000 souls 5000 ablebodied working men, you could not get them. Yon could get 6000 scraps, amongst whom there might be 2000 able-bodied men, but you could not get 5000 able-bodied workers. I mean, of course, unemployed. Well, that is not a very dreadful state ot affairs in such a population. I attribute it to the fact that a vast part of the surface of New South Wales is occupied in pastoral areas. The men naturally gravitate to the city, where the pleasures of life are at a maximum, and that accounts for a certain element of the unemployed. They go to the country and make a little money, then come to town to spend it, and afterwards hang about waiting and hoping for work. It is a prize spot; everybody wants to bo thero, and they move with great reluctance. I account for the unemployed in another way. We used to spend about £4,000,000 a year on public works. Now we spend—that is the average for the last five years—£l,soo,ooo. You will see what that means—£2,soo,ooo a year less thrown into the labour market." AUSTRALIAN DRAWBACKS—A STABLE COLONY.

“Then we have had, speaking of New South Wales in particular, five consecutive annual droughts. Our live stock was sixty millions five years ago, and in spite of natural increase the total now is only about forty millions. Still, w© have had no crises in Australia, and pastoralists have been able to hold their own. Another striking fact is that we receive every year nearly a million of money in selectors’ payments. Well, we have received within £20,000 of that amount during the drought-stricken years,-though all sorts of methods were offered to them of alleviation. Our agricultural area has nearly doubled in five years—the growth made in over a hundred years, and that, strange to say, since we abolished the duties on agricultural produce four or five years ago. Then, of course, our mineral and other natural resources aro enormous.” , . , “As far as New Zealand stands at present, there does not seem to be any particular reason why she should join us. She has got the Imperial guarantee of security. That is the main guarantee as things stand at present; but looking at these matters as one has to do in the light of future times, it must become a burning question some day as to whether New Zealand is to be a part of Federated Australia or not.” " THE SEA NO BARRIER.

“Although there are 1200 miles of sea between New Zealand and'the eastern seaboard of Australia, I suppose there are longer distances between one port of the United States and another. I think the distance between Sar Francisco and New York is 3000 miles; and, after all, although transit by land used to bo considered something immensely superior' to transit by sea, the marvels of engineering, developed of late years, are having the effect of putting matters in the opposite way, and now I fancy it is ranch cheaper to send goods 1200 miles by sea than to send them 200 miles by rail; so that the sea, while a formidable enemy, to those who suffer from ' sea-sickhess, from another point of view it brings localities more closely together than a similar stretch of land. To be sure, I don’t’refer to the military situation, because the little strip of water between Europe and ■ Great Britain is worth more than armies; but, speaking commercially, the distance between New Zealand and . Australia can be looked into rather critically. I think there are 8000 miles of coastline round the Australian Continent, and there cannot be a doubt _ that that continent in years to come is going to be a great hive of humanity in the Southern Hemisphere.” A QUESTION OF LOVE OR BUSINESS.

“How long will New Zealand bo abl to preserve an independent orbit _ii the presence of a power of gravitatioi and attraction such as Australia wil then possess P These are matter which some people will leave to th future. The position is this: an; advances made oy New Zealand jus now would be fraternal advances; an advances made when the shoe begin to pinch will be commercial advances and the British people are accustorae to follow these two trains of activit in very different ways. "When the Aus tralian is in a sentimental vein ther is no greater patriot under the sur but when that same Australian start into business negotiations there is n keener man of business. The questio at present, therefore,_ is, is New Zee land going to deal with Australia in fraternal spirit, or on business lines If you come along for a reciprocit treaty you must be expected to be deal with on strictly business principles,” “The Australians have a thorough! friendly feeling for the people of Ne’ Zealand. We are all admiration fc New Zealand, and we are proud of hf as a sister colony; but business business, and it will be purely a mattf of business if you come along whe Australian union is consummated, must admit that in your present pos tion the state of feeling which exist in New Zealand is most intelligible, an lam perfectly sure that any stej taken on the part of Australia to ii duce you to come in would do moi harm than good. Such an overtui would do more to convince your peop. that New Zealand was intended to pla the part of the lamb to Australia, an that Australia was really anxious t assimilate the weaker animal, tha anything that could be devised. The: are feelings which are inseparable fro: provincial existence.” THE EX-PREMIER’S HOPES. “I do hope, however, that the tin will come, oe it soon or late, whe there will be one flag—of course, thei is one flag, strictly speaking, but or flag rhetorically speaking—when a Australasians will be covered by anAu tralian flag; when one grand destir will be held in view by ail;' and whe the scope for an' Australian in Ne Zealand will be not less than the scoj for New Zealanders in their sisti continent.” ’ “I have been approached in varioi ways with a request to deliver a address in New Zealand on the feder question, ' and whilst I' may before leave deliver some address of the kirn I don’t think it will take the form c an appeal, to New Zealanders to jo; in this union. If I gave any sugge tion, it would be more from an histoi cal standpoint, because there is r chance for a movement for the feder tion of New Zealand with Austral which does not arise through the lie will agency of the people themselve The few expressions which I hai given you here will, in fact, answer tl purpose of a public address, so far i the matter more intimately affectii the. countries concerned- goes—the que tion of trade.”