INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXIX, Issue 3726, 28 April 1899, Page 3

INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS.

DEFECTS OF NEW ZEALAND SYSTEM. VIEWS OF DR PENNEFATILER. The system which has continued in force in. Now Zealand for so long of dealing with destitute, neglected, qnasicriminal and con vic ed children, has on many occasions been criticised and even condemned. For various reasons, howeves', succeeding Governments have aeolined or oraittod to change tho system in tho direction of providing that innocent children and criminal children shall nob be in daily and intimate association in tho one restitution. Among the latest comments made on tho system were those of Dr F. W. Pennctather, on tho occasion, of his completion of a year’s temporary occupancy of the Supreme Court bench. Dr Pennefathor is at present in Wellington, and yesterday ho courteously stated his v icv;s on the subject to a “Times” reporter. “AVhat I think on the matter,” said Dr Pennefathor, shortly, this: The New Zealand system of having only one institution which has to answer tho two purposes of an industrial school and a reformatory is wrong. It is wrong from two points of view. First of ail, I think it unfair to innocent children, such as orphans and those that are poor or destitute, that they should be obliged to associate with criminals. Secondly. I think it is an, injustice to the criminals themselves, because at an industrial school there cannot be those regulations which have been adopted in England and also in tho Australian colonies, after long and careful consideration, as most suitable to a reformatory.”

“You have, I understand, inquired into the matter for some years?” “I felt that there was this defect many years ago, when I was private seoretaray to tho into Governor, Sir William Jorvois, and in that capacity visited all the institutions of the colony. I felt it more strongly when I was in South Australia, where the same system as still exists hero bad been in vogue. But it was fouqd in South Australia that tho system was rot having satisfactory results, and a Royal Commission was appointed to investigate tho whole matter. The chairman of that commission was Chief Justice Wav'. After laking evidence and making inquiries in various parts of the world, the commission decided that The proper course was to have an industrial school for destitute children, and, quite apart from that, a reformatory for criminal children.”

“Were the recommendations of the commission adopted?’ “Yes. Tho two institutions, tho industrial school and the reformatory, are connected in the sense that they are placed close enough together to enable them to receive supplies from the sumo source, and that sort of thing, but in 'every other respect they are absolutely separate.” “What method is practised in tho South Australian institutions?”

“In tho boys’ reformatory, which is tho one I know most about, there are four classes. A boy sent to. the reformatory is put in tho fourth, or lowest, class. There he has rough fare, hard work, and no pleasures. But lie knows that he may earn marks, and that if ho cants sufficient narks he may in a very short time rise to a superior class. When ho rises to tho first class ho is practically fro?. Ho is allowed to do field work, and permitted to .share in any of tho pleasures that are provided for tho school. Similarly, in the girls’ reformatory there are three separate cottages. The girls are placed in these according to character, with a. hope before them of their being raised from ono to another, according to their behaviour and improvement in character.”

“Have you visited the Now Zealand institutions recently ?” “When I was appointed to the Supreme Court honch a year ago I became ex-officio ono of tho visitors to the industrial school at Caversham, near Dunedin. I paid many visits to the institution, and I discussed things in connection with it with tho . manager. I also conversed on tho subject with the different stipendiary magistrates in Otago and Southland. Nearly every person to whom I spoke agreed with my views.” “The public know of some of the difficulties which met you in your judicial work in dealing with youthful offenders.”

“There were several cases which presented difficulties. For instance, in Decetnher last,, at the criminal sittings in Dunedin, a boy was convicted of larceny. He was a lad of fifteen. I felt it was a very bad case; but I, was on the horns of a dilemma. I disapproved of sending a lad of fifteen to a common gaol. and on the other hand I felt it would bo unjust to innocent boys to send him to Caverabam. fin passing. I may remark that of the boys in the Caversham Industrial School two-thirds have been convicted in courts, and onothi'rd are innocent.) What I did in that case was to sentence tho boy to a nominal term of imprisonment. He was sent to gaol for two months, with hard M>our. with an instruction to the gaoler that he was to be kept separate from other prisoners; and T forwarded a memorandum to the Government asking to have the lad transferred to Caversham as soon as possible. In February ho accordingly was ■ so transferred. Then at Invercargill I had to sentence a boy for an offence, on account of which I felt it would bo simply impossible to send him merely'to an industrial school. Therefore, thm-h with great reluctance, I sentenced him to a long form of imprisonment, and I felt unable to make any recommendation in the matter. I can only say that if tho result of uiy difficulties has been to draw attention to the present; state of things, and will bo to lead to tho establishment of a proper reformatory, I shall be very glad.” “Could anything bo done without establishing a new institution?” “It might bo possible to make a distinction between tho existing institutions. For example, in the case of "Burnham and Caversham, 'one of the institutions might bo set apart as a reformatory for criminal children ana tho other as an industrial school for innocent children. At present an innocent child, merely because it is destitute, may, unless it is a Roman Catholic. ho sent to an institution where it will have to associate with children who aro convicted criminals.”