GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

New Zealand Times, Volume LXVI, Issue 3263, 21 October 1897, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, October 20. The House met at 2 30 p m. DEBATE ON THE BDDOBT. Mt UORKteON said it was ridiculous for Sir Robert Stout to say that a Government should not carry forward ii» .urplu. from year to year Private firms dl l it, and why should not a Government ? He quoted Mr Ballanoe’a Financial Statement, and said the latter laid it down that hie Government would not so In for a loan at present. Sir KOBfcf.T STODT : That is not there ! Mr MOKi ISOM : Well, he put it there. (“ Oh ” and laughter) He was only taking a leaf out of tho hon gentleman's book. (Laughter.) When Greek met Greek hu had to fight him with ms own werpous. The hon gentleman was in the habit of putting his interpretation on matters of this kind, and he did not see why he should not do so. The Stont-Vogcl (Government had borrowed £4.676,006 in three years, and .yet they taunted the present Government with borrowing. Besides this they collared .£742,728 of sinking funds, a great deal of which bis Government never contributed S towards. When they left office they had a deficit of .£378.083. In different ways during the three years the Stout-Vogel Government held office they increased tlm public debt by jfo i7g (J 74, The increases in the Customs returns and land and income taxes were duo to increased prosperity, and not to increased taxation. Ho traversed Sir Robert Stout s contentions at length. M.T J ALLEN said the former speaker was wrong in saying that the land and income tax bad not been increased. It was increased in 1893. The Ministry was tied hand and soul to foreign syndicates, and the effect was aeon on the legislation introduced into that House from time to time. There was nothing original in the Financial Statement. The Budget was merely intended to influence the Dunedin election, and was specially published in the Dunedin, papers the night before tho election. It was merely a rehash Jof past Budgets and the policies of former Treasurers. The Public Works expenditure had increased from X&to.UUU in lsio-91 to .£091,000 in 1896-97. The estimates of expenditure in tho Public Works were always very largely over-estimated. Inis was done in order to influence the last election, when £1,145,710 was appropriated, and only .£691,920 since expended. Ihe table or reproductive and non-reproduoUve works contained in page 10 of ihe Budget was a mere concoction. For instance goldfields and coalmines expenditure was put down as nonreproductive, whereas the Premier himself bad admitted ou previous occasions when it suited him that they were reproductive. While It was the habit of tho Government to seize sinking funds, the loans to local bodies could not bo considered reproductive. 3he PREMIER: They would not be seized in the future. Mr ALLEN ; He did not think the Premier had any policy in regard to old age pensions. The hint in the Statement of legislation in this direction was intended merely to deceive. It was put forward partly with the idea of keeping the old people sweet, and partly to evoke a discussion in the House, out of which a scheme might bo evolved. Trading companies did not carry forward surpluses, they placed their earnings to profit and loss. Therefore tho Government should not do' it. It would not be fair to treaty deficits in this way, and it was not fair to treat the surplus in this way. How was the surplus made up ? ,£70,300 obtained by raising debentures in aid of sinking funds, and out of this .£23,000 was derived by raising debentures against local bodies’ sinking funds. Another method of swelling the surplus was by raising revenue from capital account. Thus £67,000 was raised for sales of land and added to tho surplus—the land was gone, but no attempt was made to reduce our capital account. There was an increase of £249,000 in Customs duties. There wore many instances in which there was an increase in taxation through Customs on the necessaries in life and on our producers. Ho. quoted boots, linen, fruit and machinery as cases in point. The increase on interest in sinking funds had been increased by £25,694. There was no mention in the public accounts of the colony of the interest on the £1,500,000 loan. The Premier might say that this was a separate account and treated as such, but surely it ought to be added to our total liabilities. £150,000 was appropriated for goldfields last year, but only £13,000 was spent. Ho expected that the difference would bo spent on roads and bridges and railways unconnected with mines. Of £4,086.082 invested in the Post office Savings Bank £3,507,280 was invest' d m Government securities and £579,000 in local bodies. He did not think this was a safe policy/ It would be preferable, he thought, to invest some of our moneys In some other country, in Canada for instance, so that if stress came upon tho colony wo should not be in an utterly helpless position. It would have been better to have raised the last million loan in London at 3 per cant, than pay 3J per cent, for it here. Four years ago the Minister of Lands had received over a million of money to spend .in the purchase of lands, besides roads and bridges grants amounting to £791,000, and cost of department £643,000 ; a total of £2,451,000, all for land settlement. How was it, in the face_ of these facilities, land settlement was falling off? He said that any member of that House could have done better with the money than the Minister of Lands had done. The railways had been starved, and had come dangerously near to a breakdown. The sum of £226,000 of borrowed money had been voted in the way of a railway loan, but there was nothing: to show for it. There had been but very little additions to" the rolling stock. Engines had been made locally which could more economically have been purchased abroad. In three years only 31 carriages qnd 143 waggons had been added to the < stockyand the locomotives were exactly as they were. He ridiculed the settingup of a Royal Commission to enquire into the condition of the police force, and said the Minis ter in charge should have resigned when it was realised that such a course necessary. It certainly was a wrong position to place the new Inspector of Police in. The Premier was coquetting with the mail service question, and while advocating a certain line on tho one band, talked of competition for the reduction of freights oh tho otheri Mr HOGG opened by complimenting Mr Sligo, an old friend of hia, on having obtained a seat in the House as the representative of so important a constituency as Dunedin city. Referring to the charges against the Government of not adhering to a nomborrowing policy, he said that Mr Bafiance himself expressed a doubt as to whether such a policy could be adhered to. They had now the spectacle in New Zealand, not of swaggers looking for employment, but employers looking for labour. A young country like New Zealand could not thrive without interest from abroad, and borrowing was justified if the money was spent for the benefit of tho people as a wholq, as had been done by the present Government. Our debt was being increased, but the genuine aesets-rrin the way of good homes and farms—were beu-g increased at the same time. It was tho custom oh the part of all our finance doctors only to expend a portion of appropriations, but this was accounted for by tho fact that often appropriations in the way of subsidies were made which were |not taken up. It was said that no policy had been disclosed in the Budget. "What better policy did they want than adequate financial provision for all the legitimate requirements of the people of the colony? The first blow against tho old age pension scheme had come from the Opposition side of the House. He denied that pensioners under the scheme could be called paupers. Referring to railway matters, ho limped, no more “Fell" engines would be imported, and said the Rinjutaka incline wag onp of’the moqt ouicigal pigcCa of #or&" had ever been perpetrated in any country. The present route should be abandoned and a tunnel substituted. The line was expensive and a heavy tax on those who were not responsible for its construction. Pabiatua and district was a standing example of the unqualified success of the Government land policy, ■ The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. Mr HOGG, resuming, said that in the bush districts^many homesteads were being converted Into sheep rqns; '.The*remedy was to restrict the area of lands whifih could be field by any one individual. Mr G. HUTCHISON said as far as he knew there was to bo no amendment proposed on the Budget, because there was nothing to amend. It would be a waste of time to seriously criticise the Treasurer’s figures. * There was a mistake of £103,000 in one page, and a mistake involving thousands in another. The, appropriations for Public Works last year were over a million of money, aafi only expended, although tho'liabilities'on Slit March were exceptionally high, nearly £279,000, Ho said the f books’ of the Lana Department showed that there were fewer settlers under the Advances to Settlers Act now than last year. The MINISTER of LAND**; They had freed tfiemkelves from Hie. books, and wore independent settlers. : ' ‘ 1 Mr HUTCHISON, while admitting that to a Certain extent, warned tfic 1 Minister of Lafida tbatit was rather the'* result of a rot hading sqt in, ‘The ‘hnnd.uucement of the Minister of Xands‘that ho intended tq pass a‘ sponge 6vpr the slate and wipe out tho titles to the Horowhenua estate was one of the most serious things that had ever been done in the colony. Mr GILFBDDER quoted figures to show that the Liberal administration had been more economical than the administrations which held office from to 18£1; He re-. yibWed thb different 5 heads'bt the Budget At length. * : u *’ ‘ Mr BUCHANAN said there was nothing about finance that waa not stale in the Budget. He criticised the ’ unproductive and -reproductive table in the Budget at length, g>pd said ho greater fraud fiad e’yer beep placed said he had not had a financial training, and therefore he coaid not follow the figures of the last speaker. It appeared to him that one side of the House waa hero to save the country, and tho other side to prove that it had gone brqko. The bread and flrqblom, tha employment of ,ho peoplp problem, was' a absorbing problem than' any other which could occupy the Attention' of the House. The pons dltlon of the railways under the Ron M,r Oadman and his highly efficient staff of officers suoh as to warrant them in continuing the ‘present system of railway management. Any old age pension scheme which was wedded to friendlysooieties oonld not be a success. The workers had a right to bo provided against penury in their old age in the same way that thoBQ who retired from the Civil Settee 'were provided for, apd without any greater stigma 1 being placed upon them. The was *uofc far distant when some Ministry would introduce labour settlement!} into the oolosY- U* #* ere b ® periods'll revaluations of land, and ho^ hoped that members would co operate in getting the Minister of Lands jo Bee it in that light. There wuHbe no •ur , ’ty ”gy nst the tvppoint* ment of improperly able seamen or other abuses uctil qualified mister mariners I wore appointed «t each, principal port. He w-oaH ij*-0 *o* th G stenmera brought under tho Shlpul ig on I So*>n)i>ii*a Act, . Mr J. W. THO MRS -)X moved tho adjourn, of fefca defeat? at *3.10 ft-m.’-'Ajrsed tq,