PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XLIII, Issue 7280, 24 September 1884, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23.Tho Speaker took the chair at 2.50 p.m, MR. I’HARAZYN’S CONVICTION.

Mon. Colonel BRETT desired, with the leave of the Council, to ask tho Hon. Colonial Secretary, If the person referred to in tho columns of the Press of Wellington as Charles Johnston Pharazyn, who on Saturday last was convicted by the Resident Magistrate of a breach of the Corrupt Practices Prevention Act, is identical with tho Hon. Charles Johnston Pharazyn, a member of the Legislative Council? Tha COLONIAL SECRETARY said, in reply, that he was not in a position to state positively that the two persons referred to were identical, but he believed they were. If, however, the hon, gentleman would repeat his question on the following day, ho (the Colonial Secretary) would be in a position to answer him* Hon, Colonel BRETT gave notice that lie would, on thefollowing day, ask* If tho Goternmont intended taking any steps against tho Hon. 0. J, Pluirazyn, a nlember of tho Legislative Council, who was recently convicted of a breach of tho Corrupt Practices Prevention Act.

Mr PHARAZYN: Mr Speaker, may Ibo allowed to explain. I Tho SPEAKER : This is only a notice of motion, and the hon. member is not in order, THERMAL SPRINGS ACT. Mr WATERHOUSE asked tho Hon. tho Colonial Secretary, Whether it is the intention of the Government so far to alter the terms of the proclamation issued under tho Thermal Springs Act as to coniine its operation to the limits indicated by the Hon. Mr Whitaker in introducing the Bill into this Council ? The COLON IAL SECRETARYeaid that ilia Government viewed the matter as one of tho greatest importance, but, unfortunately, there was a great diversity of opinion on the matter, and ho had been such a short time iu office that he could give no definite answer to the question. However, ho antieijuted being in a position shortly to give tho Council all ths information which was desired. FIRST READINGS. Tho Perpetual Trustees Agency Company and tho Foreign Companies Act Amendment Bill were received from tho House of Representatives and read a first time. TUB LICENSING ACT. Dr, POLLEN moved, That there bo laid mi tho table a return showing tho amount of foes paid upon tho issue of tho several licenses (seven) specified iu clause 2D of the Licensing Act, 1881, during tho years ending.respectively SOth June, 1882, 30th June, 1883, and 30th June, 1881. Tho motion was agreed to after some discussion. MR. PHAXtAZYtt’d CASE. Mr PHARAZYN moved the. adjournment of the Council with a view to making a personal explanation. Mr PHARAZ YN eaid that ho had always maintained, and ho still maintained, that tho verdict given against him in January, 1881, was virtually one of acquittal. Ho that morning had had an interview with his solicitor, and subsequently he had taken the opinion, of eminent counsel, and in each instance those gentlemen had advised him that he had a good case for appeal. He had said so much, as ho desired that lion, members might reserve their decision in his case till tho appeal had been heard. ; Tho motion for tho adjournment of the Council was withdrawn. MARRIED WOMEN’S PROPERTY RILL. Tho COLONIAL SECRETARY, in moving the second reading of the Bill, remarked that ho was not introducing a stranger, for in 18S1 tho Bill, or ono of a similar nature, passed through tho Council, but met with an accident in another place. In 1882 Sir F. Whitaker reintroduced tho Bill into the Legislative Council, which Chamber passed the Bill, but owing lo the lateness of the session it was not passed. In 1882 a Bill somewhat similar in its provisions was passed through tho Imperial Parliament, and that Bill is now law in Great Britain. The Bill, tho second reading of which he now moved, was very similar to the Imperial Act, and it had passed through the other branch of tho Legislature. The main provision of the Bill was to enable a married woman to retain any property she might have had prior to her marriage, or might acquire subsequent to her marriage. Hon. Mr WATERHOUSE supported the motion for tho second reading, and as a proof that the Act was working well in Great Britain, cited the case of Mrs Weldon, who by assorting her rights, had done moro to assist her fellow-women than any previous measure. He hope the Bill would soon find a place in the Statute Book. Hon. Sir G. WHITMORE characterised the Bill as undoubtedly a chivalric ono, but that was all. Ho believed that if a poll of all the married women in Great Britain were taken, it would bo seen that they were opposed to the Imperial Act. If tho Bill were to become law, the contract of marriage would prove to bo merely and solely a civil contract. Heshouldlike to sec how the Imperial Act would work for a time ere the present Bill was passed into law. It should be recollected that the Imperial Act had only been in operation for two years, and had not had time to show whether it was likely to prove operative. The fact was that women did not want the Bill at all ; they did not want to be bothered with business matters, save where they were. illUsed by their dissolute husbands, and in that case they had protection of the law under tho Married Women’s Protection Act. The fact was that there were too many Acta already for tho protection of property, and not Sufficient measures for the protection and happiness of the individual. However, ho would not vote against the second reading of the Bill. Hon. Mr RICHMOND was gratified to know that the action he had taken in. the other branches of the Legislature had had the effect of the Bill now before the Council being brought down. There was a blot in th 6 Bill, and that was that a woman could not enter into partnership with another man without the sanction of her husband. Hon. Sir G. WHITMORE ; What 1 When the woman is living with her husband ? Hon. Mr RICHMOND had overlooked the proviso, and that certainly took a great deal of the virus from the Bill. In Franco and other Continental countries, a woman could enter into partnership with men other than her husband, and this had not tho effect of weakening the marriage ties, Hon. G. McLEAN did not think that women on reading ihc BUI, would be of the opinion that they had received an unmixed blessing by acquiring increased responsibilities. Women who brought money or prcqjerty to their husbands at their marriage, might have it so tied up that it would be impossible for them to touch it. Whilst not agreeing with the Bill in its entirety, he should not oppose the motion for the second reading. He could not help saying, however, that if the Bill became law, they would find men leaving their wives, and wives deserting their husbands, and the sacred ties of married life would bo lightly considered.

Hon. Colonel BRETT was of the opinion that if the Council did not pass the Bill non. members would stultify themselves. Mr STEVENS supported the motion for the second reading of the Bill. Hon.JMr OLIVER, considered that the skilful manner in which women in France conducted business pursuits was a sufficient refutation ot the assertion that the Bill, if it became law, would work well. The motion was agreed to, and the committal was made an order of the day for the following day.

PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. The Bill providing for the payment of 1iG50,000 out of the consolidated revenue was received from the House of Representatives, and was read a first time. Hon. Mr WATERHOUSE, on the # motion for the second reading of the Bill being put, pointed out that the Bill, through probably a printer’s error, set forth that it was for the financial year 1835-86. Dr POLLEN, with a view to the error being rectified, moved the adjournment of the debate, which motion was agreed to. TRUSTEES AND EXECUTORS SHAREHOLDERS

LIABILITY BILL. Hon. Mr WILSON moved the second reading of this Bill, and in doing so, said that the Bill provided that the liability of these companies should be double that of the subscribed Ci Hon!* Mr REYNOLDS moved the adjournment ot the debate to the next day. The motion was agreed to. The Council, at 4.55, adjourned to the following day.

HOUSE OF EE PRESENTATIYES. TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23. The House met at 2.30. petitions. A number of petitions were presented. NOTICES. The NATIVE MINISTER to move, That Mr Ormond be added to the Waste Lands Committee. . , Sir GEORGE GREY to introduce a Bill to provide for the appointment of Parliamentary Under-S'cretarieH of State. Mr BUCHANAN to ask the Government, Whether it is their intention to amend the Roads and Bridges Construction Act this session ? Sir JULIUS VOGEL to introduce the Westport Harbor Bill and the Greymouth Harbor Bill. QUESTIONS. In answer to questions, MINISTERS said it was the intention of the Government to expedite the survey of the 17,000 acres reserved for the Seaward Bush Railway. The sections into which the land would 6e divided would depend upon the quality of the land. The township of Marlborough would not, at present, be connected with the telegraph system of the colony, seeing that the cost would be disproportionate to the return. Volunteers on the reserve had the right of competing for district prizes under the Act; and if any contrary provision were in existence, it had been made wrongly. The Government could not at present make arrangements whereby the receivers of goldfields revenue shall pay direct to local bodies all moneys accruing to them at

the end of each month, thereby Having the delay and annoyance now canned to those bodies by their revenues being Wellington. A Bill would probably be introduced to deal with the matter. Iho Government could not thin session Introduce a Bill to make It compulsory on all vendors of patent medicines to pay licenses. The matter would be considered as a part of the local government fjuestion. Doubtless some such provision would be found practicable. The issuing of licenses to persons selling tobacco and cigars would also bo considered from a similar point of view. The Government were getting puriri sleepers in the colony at 4s to 4s (id, and a contract was now being earned out for the supply of 20,000 at 4s 0(1. The Government did not see their way to increase the price.

s-—iir.r.s, intbodcced. . Tho following Bills were introduced: —Sir George Grey, a Bill to amend the law relating to Contempt of Court; Mr Seddon, the Gold Buttes Acts 1872 and 1882 Amendment BUI.

()UKSTION» WITHOUT NOTICE. Mr GUINNESS asked tho Minister for Public Works, Whether tho Government intended to remove the dredge from Greymouth? Tho MINISTER replied that the dredge was not in use at Groymoutb, andthe Government hud therefore given instructions that It Should bo Used at Wpstport for a fort l night or three weeks. It would bo returned to Greymouth at tho end of that time. lUIIILIO UEVENUEM BH.U The X’liblio Revenues Bill was carried through all its stages and passed. Sir JULIUS VOGEL said a resolution in Committee of Supply was necessary in order that the deficiency hills could he issued. He hoped that the House would, irrespective of the motion now before it, allow these hills to bo authorised.

FINANCIAT. DEBATE. • The adjourned debate on the motion to go into Committee of Supply was resumed by Mr HOLMES, who began by reviewing tho speeches of the lion, members for Egmont and Seiwyu. Tho former, ho said, had been too self-assertive and jealous; and the latter had carried out his old role of a light jesting, newspaper paragraph writing man, without wit and without stability. It was to be regretted that a gentleman who had been a Minister of the Crown and loader of " the great Middle Party ” should not have arisen above this role. It was not a month ago that both these lion, gentlemen were anxious to join the present Premier and Treasurer, in a Ministry, too, where the member for Christchurch North (Sir Julius Yogel) should ho Treasurer; and had their advances been accepted, they would have been found now defending the Statement as tho best that had ever been delivered in the House. It was only two months ago, too, since the member for Selwyn had been in violent opposition to the member for Egmont—then Premier. Mr Holmes referred to the Inangahua election some time ago, when, he said, the tlionPremierhadsentacortain gentleman named Sliaw down to oppose, the presold; member for Selwyn, when L 2300 hod boon expended in this cause. With respect totheL2o,ooo worth of dishonored bonds, and the contractors’ deposits, . lie expressed an opinion that in both transactions the money had gone to swell tho Consolidated Fund, and make tho deficit appear smaller; ami any private individual who had committed snch an action would have found, himself in a very awkward position. Mr .Wakefield had sneered and jeered and scoffed at the proposal embodied in the Financial Statement to make the West Coast railway by means of a syndicate; yet ho had, when addressing his constituents, expressed himself in favor of this lino being made by a company, Mr Holmes then proceeded to give a sketch of the political history of the member for Selwyn, laying groat stress upon the circumstance that the, lion, gentleman had, on different occasions, maligned and supported Sir George Grey and Sir William Fox. Even at the last election they found him welcoming Sir Julius Vogel back to the colony—boasting that ha was one of the first to fly to that hon. gentleman’s arms—to recognise him as his loader. Yet, before the Stout-Vogel Administration had declared its policy, within six hours of its formation, tho hon. gentleman had been intriguing against them. In the last session the lion, member for Egmont had expressed a wish to get a powerful wiitsr on the Tiinaru Herald on his side; the wish was evidently father to the thought, and ha (Mr Holmes) wished the hon. gentleman joy of tho colleague ho had taken to his bosom. As to the Financial Statement, it was a clear and lucid one—not a financial puzzle such as they had had for years past, In conclusion, Mr Holmes warned the Government against giving the Opposition tho slightest inkling of their proposals ; for, if they did, they would probably lose the opportunity of presenting those proposals themselves. Ho claimed that the Statement had been approved by tho country, and no member who opposed it would be backed, in his opinion, by the people. At' the conclusion of Mr Holmes’ speech, it being then 5.30, tho House adjourned till 7.30.

KEENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Mr WAKEFIELD having asked and obtained permission to make an explanation, denied a statement made by the member for Christchurch South to the effect that he (Mr Wakefield) had been an intimate friend of Sir Julius Vogel, and had been intriguing with that gentleman for a seat in his Ministry. Mr HOLMES denied that ho had said that Mr Wakefield had been intriguing with Sir Julius for a seat on the Treasury benches. Ho might have said that the member for Selwyn was an intimate friend of the Treasurer. Mr W. F. BUCKLAND characterised the whole speech of the member for Christchurch South (Mr Holmes) as neither more nor leas than an attack on the members for Egmont and Selwyn. That style of argument, he would like to point out, was not what members came there for. Alluding to the Civil Service) in(piiry, ho argued that the business of the House was with the proposals of the present Government, not with those of a past Government ; and bo doubted whether the present Ministry, if turned out, would leave any papers for their successors. Mr Buckland dealt at some length upon the manner in which party interests were made the bone of contention in the House, and the frequent use of the apparently synonomous word “ rats.” Referring to the Statement, ho said they wore told that there were to be periodical exhibitions—that the Government, in fact, were going to turn show proprietor. Probably they would be running a circus next. Tile Statement had been called a financial puzzle, but if the hon. member who used that term had taken the trouble to solve that puzzle instead of devoting his time to the blackening of another member's character, the result would have been much greater and better. The Government told them that the property tax was to be presently done away with, but that only meant that they were to nave more borrowing. Mr BEVAN expressed his satisfaction with the Statement, and read a telegram from his district to the effect that ‘‘everyone there could understand Vogel’s Financial Statement. It was very different from the budgets they had hud for the last five years. The dense fog had at last cleared off,” Ho censured the late Government for their mismanagement of public works and finances, contending that the dishonor of bonds was really dishonor and nothing else, and that public works, which if completed would have proved largely reproductive, had been left unfinished. Public safety had also been endangered by the misconduct of the Agent-General. The member for Selwyn was looked upon by every member of the House as the essence of a political weathercock, and he had made a poor attempt to criticise the Statement, That hon, gentleman might well bo compared to Miss Hardcostle, in “ She Stoops to Conquer.” He hoped the bon. member for Parnell would withdraw his amendment.

Mr BRYCE thought the member for Selwyn must feel flattered at the attention which had been devoted to him. It had been said that the hon, member for Christchurch North would pursue his own course absolutely uncontrolled by his colleagues. That, Mr Bryce argued, was not what the country ortho House wanted, and the number of members who would follow the Treasurer under such circumstances would bo very few indeed. In reference to the Civil Service Bill, he ridiculed the idea that a draft Bill should be given to the Government, The hon, member for Hokitika had read a telegram from his district. Would the hon. gentleman say that the whole of his constituents had signed that telegram (A Voice: ‘*Tho Chairman of the Westland Education Board,”) The bonds, of which so much had been said, had been hold over, as they might legally be, and yet that was called dishonoring. With regard to the defective material, no blame could attach to the Agent-General, for as the present Minister for Public Works told the House the other day, the name of the inspector and contractor might bo taken as sufficient guarantee for the quality of the material. In the Statement they found a proposal to reduce the Armed Constabulary, The Premier, addressing the House few days ago, had said that the natives were in a state of discontent from North to South, and were only kept down by terrorism. Yet ho now proposed to decrease the Constabulary. Before commencing to criticise tho Statement, Mr Bryce said he recognised that the member for Egmont was vastly his superior in financial learning, and he did not know therefore what term of contempt tho Treasurer would apply to him. He did not for a moment believe that they were going to save 1/211,000 by taking the sinking fund. As to the proposal to reduce the property tax, tho Treasurer had a strong dislike to this tax, because under it tho mortgagees were taxed. He (Mr Bryce) thought it was only right and just that the money-lending power growing up so rapidly in the colony should be taxed, Tho wealth of the colony depended not upon borrowingor upon glittering financial schemes, but upon their frugality and the progress of industries. The borrowing proposals of tho Government, he considered, were appalling, amounting as they did to about 7i millions, (Oh). Yes, they proposed to borrow a third million of the authorised loan, a million for tho North Island Trunk Railway, a million and a half was proposed in the Statement, two and a half millions were to be authorised for a railway syndicate, and there were one and a half millions for local expenditure, which must come out of the loan, The worst thing about this

continued borrowing was the exorbitant. jipetlte it created ; and tlid coitiblilatloris daily •rganised by members to secure the expenaiture in their districts of borrowed money was exceedingly baneful. Hide it as they might, they iiroposed to borrow seven and a nan tailliOns, and for that reason lie objected to flieiStateuleniit , ■ . , ifon. Mr BAULAtfCiB. In reply td the statement that the Colonial Treasurer re used to bo controlled by any of his colleagues, pointed out that tho Treasurer had himself said that ho had modified Ins Statement to meet tUeviewa of hie colleagues. -Referring to the dishonored bonds, ho should like to ask when tho Public Trustee w*s asked to hold thorn over. The fact that this other transactions had been exposed, he considered, was most beneficial to tho colony, rattier than damaging to it. Tho member for Egmont, in the past, bad made most damaging statements. (Major Atkinsoni “Give us a sample. ) Mr Itallance said tho hon. gentleman had made statements about deficiencies whoso amount Was greatly manufactured by himself. In reference to the reduction in the Armed ; Constabulary, ho said that on tho one hand they were blamed for bringing down the bm{J® estimates as their predecesssors ; while on t jc Other, they were charged with making undue reductions. XCo niaintalried that the natives Were nob inclined to go to war, ana Conciliation wpdld bo found far rriore effectual r® with thorn than tho policy of the late Minister. Did the hon. gentleman think that the redaction of the Armed Constabulary by 200 would heighten tho prospects of a rising among tne natives ? With reference to tho Sinking b und proposals, ho contended that tho country had approved of them as the House would do. As to tho property tax, and tho argument of tho hon. member for Waitotara, that they should tax the money-lender, Mr Ballance pointed out the difficulty of getting hold of the money-lender and tho dangers of taxing the farmer instead of the mortgagee. Then the hon, gentleman was afraid of the borrowing proposals of the Government. Surely ho Knew that the greater part of that borrowed money was needed to pay off the debts incurred by the late Government. He should like the hon. member for # Egmont to explain, when opportunity offered, how it was that when a motion on his Government was pending, ho had accepted two tenders —one for L10,3J8 and another for L 7303. Such an action, he submitted, would not be equalled in the history of any constitutionally-governed country. The policy enunciated in tho Financial Statement, he maintained, was a perfectly transparent and clear one, and one that would bo approved by the country, Ihe financial administration of tho late Treasurer had completely broken down, but the present Government had not yet had an opportunity to win its spurs in this direction. The member for Egmont had not in any way proved tho failure of the Statement, neither had be been able to show failure In any direction. The Government was prepared to give effect to Its policy as soon as possible, and ne believed ih.at that policy would bo found conducive to the prosperity and greatness of tho colony. MrKOLLESTON' said tho whole tone of the discussion seemed to imply the familiar words ** You’re another.” Tho late Government had been charged with failing to carry out in practice the theory they sot up against borrowing. Let hon. members look at the position when they (the late Government) came into power; the condition of the colony was such that they had to borrow to save the loss of largo sums, They had therefore borrowed in such a way as to ensure that tho money should bo spent on specific works, and it was unfair to say that the then administration did not do its beat, The present Government had not acted wisely in its strictures upon certain officers; and he never felt more ashamed than when he heard that , portion of the Statement referring to the Treasury, one of the best departments in the colony. In reference to tho native administration of tho hon. member for Waitotara, he submitted that if the Government had nothing more to congratulate itself upon than tho result of that policy, it would yet have to achieve a great work. A man with firm resolve and steady hand, Mr Rollestou argued, was eminently qualified to deal with the natives, and any one who had not those qualities would not succeed. Criticising the Statement, ho said that no one could help but be struck by the manner in which figures were concealed and made ambiguous in it. He was of opinion that quite 7 h millions of borrowed money was shadowed forth, and perhaps more. Tho Statement was peculiar by the absence of several matters which in his opinion were inseparable from the financial position of the colony. The introduction of population was an important matter; but they heard nothing more about immigration than the proposal to place a certain number of settlers along a line of railway. The best moans of helping the colony to prosperity was the introduction and settlement upon land of a wealthy class of immigrants. Huge blocks of land were held in New Zealand by the capitalist and the speculator—blocks from which no benefit could arise to the colony for many years, and he was of opinion that unless something could be done in this direction tho look out for the future was a bad one. It was ■jainful, too, to see that no provision was made n the Statement for education. They were told that the colony had been dozing. No such thing. The late Government had a heritage of debt and bad administration left them, and they had brought the colony On to such an extent that they might say they had done more to advance its interests in the five years of their office than had ever been done before. In conclusion, ho said he should oppose on every occasion tho increase of borrowing, and on that ground he opposed the Statement,

Mr MONTGOMERY denied that the Atkinson Government, when taking office, had found the finances in such a state as indicated by the hon. member for Geraldine (Mr Rolleston). That hon. member defended the action of the Minister who in 1879 ransacked the telegraph office, and looked into telegrams. (Major Atkinson: “No Minister did that”). Mr Montgomery said the evidence of Sir John Hall was to the effect that he “ had glanced at the telegrams.” It ill became any Minister who had supported such conduct to come down and make unfavorable comments upon the Ministry that had gone before it. Touching the Statement, ho said that a great deal had been expected from it, and he felt bound to say that very little disappointment had been felt. It was not a bare array of figures, but it was one which, although there might bo some parts of it with which they might disagree, would be welcome to the country. His desire was that the present Treasurer should retain office. He did not approve, however, of the proposal to make a reduction in the education capitation grant, and suggested that the sum necessary to replace this reduction should be placed on the supplementary estimates. Ho hoped that the Government would not appoint a commission to find it a policy in connection with the local governing question. In conclusion, he wished to say a few words about the late Colonial Treasurer. That gentleman had held Sir George Grey up as a bogey, and it had been this that had kept the Atkinson Government in power so long. The House now would not turn out the Ministry, because they were afraid that the member for Egmont would come back—he was the bogey, in fact —and although they might not altogether agree with the proposals of the Government, he believed that next session they would come to Parliament with a good majority. Ho expressed a hope that time should be allowed, and that the Government would not this session bring forward any matters of import. Mr HURSTHOUSB said ho had been extremely doubtful until the very last moment as to which way.the hon, member for Akaroa would rote if a no-confidence motion were brought forward. He agreed with the hon, gentleman in reference to a local governing policy; and he thought, seeing that nearly every member of the House had had something to do either directly or indirectly with local government, a Bill might bo framed in this chamber which would thoroughly meet the requirements of the country. The fault of the present system, he considered, was that there were too many local bodies travelling over the . sozner ground. The Native Minister had claimed that the policy enunciated in the Statement was a moderate one. But between the lines of that Statement were to be seen the borrowing _of about twelve and half As to its soundness, that was a matter of opinion. With regard to the defective railway material, he was given to understand that a ship load of similar mateiial sent to the Wellington-Manawatu Railway Company had also been found to be in a very bad condition, so that it might be seen that the Government alone was not the sufferer. Probably when the matter had been sifted thoroughly, the blame would bo thrown on to the right shoulders. It was said that the colony had dozed for five years. He asked the House to consider whether settlement had not progressed during that time. Certainly there had been no huge land speculators, no settling of the land by means of syndicates ; but the settlement had progressed well, and on the West Coast of the island a good proof would be found. Look at the progress of the hop industry, the woollen industry, and cheese factories. Referring to the general policy of the Government, Mr Hursthouse expressed the opinion that the House should very carefully consider any question affecting borrowing; and loans in every case should be allocated before they were agreed to. Ho questioned whether the Government were sincere in respect to local industries. He condemned the proposal to take away the education capitation grant, and asked where were the reductions in the cost of primary education 1 The debate was adjourned, on the motion of COLONEL TRIMBLE, and the House rose at 0.30 a.m.