PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4509, 2 September 1875, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, September 1. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at two o'clock. FORD AND OTHERS PENSION BILL. The select committee appointed to consider ■ this Bill brought up a report in which it was stated that in the opinion of the committee the persons named in the Bill were not entitled to the sums proposed to be given them. Asa general principle the committee considered it would be best to vote these pensions by an annual vote instead of by Acts of Parliament. NAPIER MUNICIPAL COUNCIL EMPOWERING AND WATERWORKS LOAN RILL. This Bill was passed through all stages. GOLDFIELDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL (NO. 1.) , The order for the second reading of this Bill was discharged and the second reading fixed for Friday. _. . . THE OTAGO WASTE LANDS ACT, 18/2, AMENDMENT BILL. The Hon. Mr. MENZIES moved the second reading of this Bill, and referred at length to the good which had arisen fiom recent legislation. The Hon. Mr. HOLMES urged an amendment of the law to such an extent that people buying land in Otago under the deferred payment system should not be able to get it at 14a. lOd. per acre, while those .who paid cash had to pay from £2 to. £i per acre. The present land system of New Zealand had utterly failed, and was fast creating dummyism, which had been the bane of Victoria. People took up land and having shepherded it for a short fame then sold it at a profit, proceeding to other places to repeat the operation. _ He thought the question not local but national, and having spoken on that phase of the question, he would like to make a few remarks regarding the statement that the General Assembly had so trammelled the Provincial Council of Otago. as to make them unable to refuse to sell land if money were brought to them. The fact was that, the Provincial Council had not parted with the land under compulsion. One large block of 45,000 acres had actually been offered by the Council without any previous application being made to them. They had sent Mr. Larnach to Melbourne at the expense of the province, and had paid him commission of 1 per cent, for negotiating the sale to Mr. Clarke. To Mr. Clarke the province had allowed 10 per cent. of the purchase money for surveys, and 2s. 6d. per acre for other expenses, so that the net proceeds of the sale of 45,000 acres was only £35,020, or about 15s. per acre. There could be no doubt that the sale was a voluntary sale and promoted solely by the province, and that contrary assertions were simply misrepresentation. The fact was, that the Provincial Government had an overdraft at the bank to the amount 0f.£88,000, and as the bank was pressing the province for payment, the Provincial Government adopted the only means open to them and. sold the land. At the time the proposal to sell these large blocks was made, he (Mr.-Holmes) was a member of the Provincial Council, and as far as he remembered, at that time said that no persons in the colony were prepared to expend £50,000 in the purchase of land, and subsequent circumstances proved that he had been correct. After some further discussion the debate was adjourned till Friday. TABANAKI WASTE LANDS BILD 1874 AMENDMENT BILL. The Hon. Mr. SCOTLAND moved the second reading of this Bill. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE opposed. A long discussion ensued, and eventually the Bill was read a second time, on a majority of 4, many members reserving to themselves the right of voting against the third reading if the Bill was not amended in committee bo aa to suit their views. GOLDFIELDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL (NO, 2). . The Hon. Mr. BON AH explained the provisions of this Bill, and moved that it be read a second time, which was agreed to without discussion. WELLINGTON HAKBOR RESERVES BILL! I The committal of this Bill was postponed till Friday. ' PALMEESTON WATERWORKS BILL. The second reading was agreed to, and the Bill was partly considered in comnvttee. At four o'clock the Council adjourned. -HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. "Wednesday, September 1. Preliminary business having been disposed of, a number of petitions were presented and notices of motion given. NATIVE LANDS IN TARANAKI. Mr. T. KELLY asked the Native Minister •whether a sitting of the Native Lands Court will be held at New Plymouth at an early date, for the purpose of settling succession to land belonging to persons of the native race who have died intestate ? Also, to investigate the title of land the purchase of which is now being negociated by the General Government, but which purchase could not be completed until the land be passed through the Native Lands Court. Sir DONALD McLEAN said he had telegraphed to the Chief Judge of the Native Lands Court with respect to the first part of the question, and as to the latter,- attention would be directed thereto as soon as possible. NELSON RAILWAY. Mr. LTJCKIE asked the Minister for Public Works whether any, and what, arrangements have been made for carrying a line of railway to connect the Government Wharf at Nelson with the terminal station at Toitoi Valley in that city? If not, what course the Government propose to pursue in order to make this necessary connection ? The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON stated the cost of the work would be considerable, and the Government deemed it unnecessary to make the connection at present, because the distance between the wharf and station being so short it was questionable whether the line would be taken advantge of by importers. PUBLIC LOANS. Mr. THOMSON asked the Colonial Treasurer, —1. If he will state the exact Burplus of loans, after all the outstanding liabilities of the colony are met, with which to commence the financial year ? 2. If the charge for raising the loans has been classed amongst the liabilities referred to in table 1, p. 8, of the Financial Statement ? 3. If not, how this charge is proposed to be met—out of loan, or out of revenue ? The Hon. Major ATKINSON replied as to the first part of the question that the hon. gentleman would find particulars of the available balance in page 8 of the Financial Statement, subject to the remarks in the preceding paragraph. As to the second part, the charge had been classed among the . liabilities. IMMIGRATION. In reply to Mr. O'Neill, The Hon. Major ATKINSON said there would be no objection to laying before the House a return, showing the total number of immigrants who have arrived in New Zealand tinder the Public Works and Immigration Acts up to the 30th of June last. BTLLS INTRODUCED. The following Bills were introduced:—Otago Board of Works Bill, ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday; Otago Board of Education Bill, ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday; Clyde Waterworks Bill, ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday; Dunedin Peninsula and Ocean Beach Railway Bill, and Tauranga Local Reserves Bill, ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday. disqualification op members. Mr. ROLLESTON again drew the attention of the House to the question of privilege previously referred to by him. His object was to have an inquiry into an agreement between the Executive Government and members of that House, involving payment of money to such members without tho expresß sanction of • the Legislature, in order to ascertain whether the provisions of the Qualification Act had been infringed. He would therefore move the following resolutions:—l. That it is inconsistent with the freedom and independence of

Parliament that any agreement or transaction should be entered into between the Executive Government and members of the Legislature, involving the payment of money or the granting of present or prospective pecuniary advantage to such members except under the express .sanction of the Legislature. 2. That allegations having been made and returns and papers having been laid on the table apparently showing that members of the Legislature during the term of the present Parliament have been or are interested in such agreements or transactions it is expedient that a select committee be appointed to inquire into such and report upon the circumstances under which the same have been entered into, and as to. whether the provisions of the Disqualification Act have been thereby infringed. Such committee to have power to call for persons and papers. What had transpired in the House yesterday had left the matter in a very unsatisfactory position, and he felt himself in a larger measure responsible for the position in which the question now stood. On the first occasion of his moving in the matter, the Government had stated that they would obtain the opinion of the law officer. Yesterday the Government had stated that the final opinion of the authorities had yet to be given; and further, that on consideration the Government did not consider they were called upon to enter into the question —that it was a matter for the House to investigate. His own opinion was that the • Government, as leading the House, should, at least, move for a committee to prosecute inquiry, and as possessing the best legal advice obtainable in the colony, they might fairly be called upon tc give the House the benefit of that advice on a question of such paramount importance as that with which he had connected himself. And he felt called upon to move further in the matter. He then alluded to the statement of the hon. member for Franklin regarding an .agreement with the Government relative to a block of land, on handing over which he had reserved the right to claim a reward if it were discovered to be auriferous. Then, in papers laid on the table, they found an agreement which, he ventured to say, was of the most extraordinary character ever heard of. Mr. Studholme, who, at the time, was member for Kaiapoi, and others having transferred to the Government the title of a large block of land extending as far as Rangaepeha, when, in fact, neither Mr. Studholme nor the others had any legal title whatever to the land. He then referred to transactions between the Government and Messrs. Williamson and Taylor, who were interested in the purchase of the Piako Swamp lands, which was a transaction professedly without the force of law. He was not aware whether it was within the power of that House to inquire into the matter to which he had just made reference, but hoped that the other branch of the Legislature would make inquiry, which he conceived to be absolutely necessary in the interests of the whole, and as affecting the honor and independence of the Legislature. He thought the matter would be best dealt with by referring it to a select committee to inquire into those circumstances, in order to determine whether there had not been a breach of the Disqualification Act. Sir DONALD McLEAN said he had twice explained to the hon. gentleman that the Government had taken immediate steps to obtain the advice of the Law Officer of the Crown. After receiving that opinion he had intimated to him that the hon. member for Franklin did not come within the Disqualification Act. He had also told him that a final opinion could not be obtained until the Solicitor-General had seen some further papers in connection with the transaction. The hon. gentleman appeared disinclined to take any answer but a final one, and that, as had already been stated, could not be given until I the Solicitor-General was in possession of the whole of the papers. With reference to the land transactions in the North, members must 1 know that from the earliest period they had been occupied by a system of compromise, and the Government were quite justified.in stepping in under these circumstances and acquiring the land. He did not care whether | their action was legal or not—it was just and equitable, and according to common sense, that the land should be obtained for the purposes to which it was intended to be devoted, instead of being swallowed by capitalists. He hoped that the hon. gent'eman, who appeared to be in a most unhappy frame of mind, would be relieved when he got his committee.

Mr. KELLY addressed himself to the question, but the greater part of his speech was lost to the reporters. He was understood to affirm that the purchase of native lands in the North Island by private individuals should be prohibited, as the Government could not compete successfully with capitalists. Mr. SHEPHARD thought there need be no fear of the result of an inquiry, so far as it would personally affect the hon. member for Franklyn ; but he agreed that the appointment of a committee was justifiable. Mr. SHEEHAS remarked that since the direct system had been done away with, the acquisition of native lands had been made a trade of in the interior, speculators being wise enough to see that the immigration and public works policy would make the lands more valuable. Mr. ROLLESTON replied, and proposed that the following hon. members form a committee: —The Hon. Major Atkinson, Messrs. Parker, Johnson, Stout, Curtis, and the mover. The motion was carried on the voices. SURVEYOR-GENERAL. Mr. WALES moved, that in the opinion of this House, it would be impolitic and injurious to the interests of the country to appoint a person as surveyor-general for New Zealand, who has not had experience in this colony as a surveyor. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said he was at a loss to conceive how the impression had got abroad that the Government were desirous of appointing some person other than those resident within the colony ; because he had before informed the House that the Government would consider the claims of all persons at present employed on the surveys of the colony. The Government were of opinion that those persons who had borne the heat of the day, if qualified, should have the first claim, but they could not commit themselves to this or that one. If the hon. gentleman desired the appointment of any particular person—(Mr Wales : No) —he should put his name on paper and make a motion to that effect. (Hear.) But as influencing the Government the present motion was entirely useless, inasmuch as there were only three or four gentlemen qualified for the appointment, and they might not accept it. Either the House must take the responsibility or the appointment must be left with the Government without interference. Sir GEORGE GREY suggested that the Government should agree, not only in the case of the Surveyor-General, but in all other instances to secure the talent they might find in the colony; and let the - motion fall through. ' ' The Hon. Major ATKINSON : The Government naturally looked to that end. Mr. SHEPHARD advised Mr. Wales to withdraw his motion, having received this assurance from the Government. Mr. PYKE said the appointment of Major Palmer had led to the suspicion that the Government were predisposed to appoint persona outside the colony, and this suspicion had been confirmed by Mr. Vogel's appointment of an Inspector of Lunatic Asylums and a Conservator of State Forests. He was also disposed to believe that the appointment had already been made, since he found on the table two returns signed by the " Inspector of Surveys," and he could not see in what his functions differed from those of a SurveyorGeneral. The Hon. Major ATKINSON reiterated that no appointment had been made. Mr. MURRAY proposed an amendment to the effect that the Government should in the appointment of a surveyor, merits being considered, give the preference to a person of colonial experience. Messrs. O'Neill, Carrinoton, Mat, and Macandrbw having addressed the House, The Hon. Mr. STTZHERBERT spoke to the question at some length, commencing with i a playfully sarcastic allusion to the member

for Wakatipu (Mr. Pyke) who, he Baid, evidently considered it necessary (though a supporter of tho Government) to draw the line somewhere. As to the main question, he was quite of opinion that the appointment should rest with the Government, as they were responsible. A responsible Government appointed, and a Parliament criticised, and if found necessary, expressed their dissatisfaction. He was surprised at the indignation expressed at the possible appointment of a SurveyorGeneral from Home, because the colony was governed at Home, and their affairs were regulated through the telegraph. With regard to Major Palmer, he had no doubt that inducement had been held out of a permanent appointn'cnt. The Hon. Major ATKINSON denied that any such promise had been made. He was assured by his colleagues that no hopes of that character had been held out. Mr. FITZHERBERT said his impression was totally at variance with the statement of the Colonial Treasurer. Mr. STAFFORD was surprised that the member for the Hutt did not accept the denial, and begged to remark this :. that however much the members of that House might differ in policy or in their estimate of the capacity of the gentlemen who for the time being had the responsibility of conducting public affairs on those benches, it would be placing them in a very low position indeed to doubt the statement of positive facts. He (Mr. Stafford) happened accidentally to know something of those facts.- He had seen a telegraph report that Major Palmer was about to become Surveyor-General, and before that gentleman left the country had asked him if such was the case. Major Palmer replied most decidedly that he had received no offer from the Ministry, and that as he was in the Imperial service he would not be likely to accept it. He made this statement without any reservation whatever, and from his (Mr. Stafford's) acquaintance with that gentleman, he was justified in saying that his word was to be thoroughly relied upon. As to the main question, he entirely agreed with the hon. member for the Hutt. In the first place, they had no right to hold a Government responsible for their action in an appointment of so important a character as this—(and it was important because it affected the title of every family to the land they occupied)—if_ they restricted their action to a certain district. He admitted the wisdom of encouraging colonial talent, but deprecated the establishment of any stringent line as respected the action of a responsible Government. In some parts of the colony the surveys were very incorrect and could not be relied upon, while there were others that could be fairly relied upon. That incorrectness had to be cured, but must be cured with great care and consideration, and they must therefore allow the Government a wide selection in the appointment of those who were to cure it. Mr. WALES accepted the amendment proposed by Mr. Murray, and the discussion then terminated. Mr. REID defended the surveyors of previous days, and said if Major Palmer had been placed in the same position he would not have been able to do better. He referred specially to Mr. Thomson, of Otago, to whose high scientific attainments and steadiness in following out a fixed system was due the reliable surveys of that province. Mr. READER WOOD thought the House was mistaken in supposing that accurate surveys would be obtained by the mere appointment of a Surveyor-General without changing the system. If the isolated survey system were continued it would be impossible to get correct surveys. The only way to get accurate surveys was to get a trigonometrical survey, which, in a country like New Zealand, would be very expensive. But, after all, the inaccuracies were trifling, and it was seldom the aid of the Supreme Court was invoked to settle disputes. f I Mr. WALES having replied, and pointed out that according to returns there were many thousand acres set down as inaccurately surveyed, he withdrew his motion, and the amendment requesting the Government in making appointments to consider the eligibility of persons in the colony, was carried. THE AGENT-GENERAL AND THE SUPERINTENDENT OP WELLINGTON. Mr. ANDREW moved, that there be laid before this House copies, if in the possession of his Excellency's Government, of all letters written by his Honor the Superintendent of Wellington to the Agent-General of the colony, in January, 1872, on the subject of the Wellington Special Settlements Act, 1871, and also a copy of the reply of the Agent-General to the same, written in March, 1872. In a speech introducing the motion, j the hon. member spoke at some length respect- i ing irregular arrangements between the Super- | intendent of Wellington and the Agent- i General. \ The resolution was agreed to, but the Hon. Sir Donald McLean intimated that the Government had not possession of the paper. The correspondence as read by Mr. Andrew is as follows : Superintendent's Offise, December 22,1871. Sir,—l have tho honor to enclose copy of the Wellington Special Settlements Act, 1871, and to invite your attention to clause 22 of the Act. Under it I now apply to you to grant your sanction to me as Superintendent of the Province of Wellington, allowing to any person who shall have negotiated since Ist August, 1871, for the sale of laud a commission of 5 per cent.—l have, &c, WILLIAM FITZnERBEKT, Superintendent. I. E. Featherston, Agent-General, London. In virtue of the power vested in me by the Wellington Special Settlements Act, I, Isaac Earl Featherston, Agent-General for New Zealand, do hereby authorise the Honorablo William Fitzherbert, Superintendent of the Province of Wellington, to allow to any person who shall hereafter negotiate, or shall since the Ist day of Augußt. 1871, have negotiated the sale to any person, not resident in tho Province of Wellington, of any laud under tho first part or on tho second part of the above recited Act, or under tho regulations for the time being in force for tho sale, letting, or occupation of the waste lands of the Crown in the said province, a commission at such rate not exceeding 5 per cent., tho amount of the total purchase money paid, or agreed to be paid upon such sale as ho shall think at. Signed this 22nd day of March, 1872, at No. 7 Westminster Chambers, Victoria-street, London, S.W. I. E. Feathebstow, Agent-General. Witness to the signature: I. F. Featherston, John Morrison, 7 Westminster Chambers, Victoria-street, London. ADVANCE FROM THE COLONIAL TREASURY TO PROVINCIAL SECRETARY. Mr. ANDREW moved, that there be laid before this House a return showing all the amounts advanced by the Colonial Treasurer during the past year, for the purpose of enabling the Provincial Secretary of Wellington, or of other provinces, to compete with Dr. Buller and other individuals in tho purchase of Crown lands. He said he desired; to,be 1 fair, and had moved this motion because he desired an explanation of the conduct of one of the gentlemen on the Government benches. It seemed that the Colonial Treasurer had, in March last, actually placed at the disposal of the Provincial Secretary of Wellington a sum of £15,000, to enable him to purchase 30,000* acres of land, or, in other words, to enter into competition with Mr. Buller. It seemed that on March 9, at 11.20 Mr. Buller lodged an application for 30,000 acres of land in the Rangitumau block, tendering £2OOO cash ; on the same afternoon Mr. Bunny applied for the same land, acting with the consent of the General Government, and tendered £15,000, which had upon a few minute's notice been handed over to him by the General Government. The strange part of the business was that, on the Saturday (the application being lodged on Monday) the Superintendent had actually recommended Mr. Buller to buy the land. Mr. Buller declined to do that till he had seen the land, yet on Monday morning Mr. Buller rushed into the office to buy the land without having seen it; but the Superintendent, on hearing of tho application, wrote a memorandum withdrawing the block from sale, and next day Mr. Bunny got £15,000 from the General Government to enable him to buy the land. The Commissioner of Crown Lands had related the circumstances as follows : —" It is within my knowledge that on the previous Saturday Mr. Buller saw the Provincial Secretary and the Superintendent, and the Superintendent urged him to purchase this land, stating that it was well worth his attention. Mr. Buller said he could

not purchase it without seeing it, and that he would go and see it. On Monday morning Mr, Buller came to my office and said he wished to purchase some land in the Rangitumau block, desiring at the same time to know whether there was any person connected with the Government in the neighborhood o£ Masterton who could accompany him to the block. I told him there was. Mr. Buller was still in my office when I went to speak to the Superintendent, and it was then the Superintendent wrote the memorandum on the plan withdrawing the land from sale." That seemed to show the circumstances of the case, and eventually both applications were refused. What he wanted to inquire was this : How was it the public money could be advanced by the Colonial Treasurer to some persons to compete with others in the acquisition of land. No appropriation had been made, and yet the money was paid over. He had yet to learn, also, that the Provincial Secretary could be legally seised of land at all. The motion was carried. RESOLUTIONS OF AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Mr. SHEEHAN moved that there be laid before this House a copy of the resolutions passed by the Auckland Provincial Council during its last session, in reference to the abolition of provinces, and the control of the police force. After some little discussion, the resolution was agreed to, the words " and divisions into" being inserted. ; ' ' ORIPI BUSH ROAD. . : Mr. W. KELLY moved that in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that the Native Contingent, Armed Constabulary, now employed on the Tika Tapu road should, immediately on completion of that road, be employed in widening and improving that portion of the main trunk line of road between Tauranga and Napier running through Oripi bush. After explanations by Sir Donald McLean, the resolution was agreed to. DEALINGS BETWEEN - MEMBERS OP THE HOUSE AND THE GOVERNMENT. Mr. BUCKLAND moved that a return be laid before this House, containing a list of all members of the General Assembly who, during the last five years, have sold or transferred, or contracted to sell or transfer, any property, real or personal, to the Crown, or to any person on behalf of the Crown, or to the Colonial Government, for railways or other purposes ; specifying in each case the nature and quantity of the property, with the date of the contract ; the date of the deed of completion ; and a precis of the covenants contained or implied. Also, a return of all the members of the General Assembly who, during the last five years, have made any contracts with the Crown or Government, other than as above mentioned ; specifying the nature of the contract, with the date when entered into, and whether completed or still pending. In moving the motion, the lion, member said his only desire was to purge the House. He had not the slightest fear of the result, as it affected himself, for he was sure when the facts became known, he would be applauded instead of being censured. WELLINGTON TOLLGATES BILL. The second reading of the Wellington Tollgates Bill was postponed. BULLS PASSED. The Presbyterian Church Bill, the Oamaru Waterworks Bill, Wellington Athenasum Bill,. Plan of Towns Regulation Bill, Auckland City Endowment and Reserves Bill, Registration of Mining Companies Validation Bill, Chubbin Land Purchase Bill, were passed through all stages. SECOND HEADINGS. The following Bills were read a second time :—Kakanui Harbor Board Bill, Westport Municipal Reserves Bill, Oamaru Town Hall and Gasworks Site Bill. PIAKO-WAIKATO SWAMP SALE. The debate on the motion for the appointment of a select committee to inquire into the sale of the Piako-Waikato Swamp was resumed by Mr. SHEEHAN, who moved as an amendment that the inquiry be referred to the Taiaroa committee, as the proposed committee was not fairly constituted. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the Government could not accept the amendment, because the committee proposed by the Government was to be trusted, but to meet the wishes of the Opposition would be willing to consult with the mover of the amendment as to the alteration of the committee. Mr. SHEEHAN expressed a willingness to accept the offer. On the question that leave to withdraw the amendment be given, Mr. REEVES rose, and in a few remarks, said it was impossible for a committee constituted as that proposed by the Government was constituted to give a good and fair decision. (Oh, oh.) The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON said he believed that any committee appointed by the House would report fairly. Mr. CUTHBERTSON, although one of the seven members of the committee who were alleged to be pledged supporters of the Government, declined to allow himself to be so designated. This committee was to be appointed to consider whether, had been an abuse of power committed by the Government, and any committee, whether composed of Government or Opposition members would do its.duty. He complained that the lion, member for Auckland City West had levelled charges against the Government without showing he had foundation for it, and to decline to accept a committee was discreditable. Mr. STOUT commented on the warmth shown by a gentleman who was to sit in a judicial capacity, and then passed on to say that in his opinion an investigation would be but a waste of time ; for even that day the Hon. the Native Minister in referring to a transaction had said he did not care whether the act was legal or illegal. Sir GEORGE GREY followed, saying that he had not had any doubt as to the integrity of the members of the committee ; but when he saw a committee of nine or ten having upon it seven members who had voted with the Government on the subject, he had thought he had' not' been fairly treated, more especially as he had not been consulted in the composition of the committee. He then referred to several transactions of the Government which he characterised as illegal, and in respect to the excuse that the Piako swamp had been sold because a road and drainage was wanted, it would have been much better for the Government to have made the road and drained the land, so that the land might then have been sold for the benefit of the whole community instead of individuals. Sir D. MoLEAN said the hon. member for Auckland City West was continually appealing to the House on the illegality of this or that act of the Government with reference to the lands. The hon. gentleman must be quite aware that under the Act of 1866, regarding confiscation, that the Government had ample power to deal with the matters complained of. He (Sir D. McLean) had never said the Government had acted illegally, as the hon. member asserted, but he had admitted that the acts of the Government required validating by orders in council. The Government had full power to act as they had done, but it was also necessary that validation should afterwards take place. That was the only thing he had admitted, and this the hon. member attempted to construe into an admission of downright illegal action.. With reference to the remark of the hon. member that the Piako swamp had not been open to purchase by her Majesty's subjects generally, he would simply say the assertion was not the fact. The land had been open for a considerable time at the upset price of 6s. per acre, but none of her Majesty's subjects seemed inclined to take it up; therefore, when the Government received an offer they considered to be fair, they accepted it. One object to bo attained was a road between Waikato and the Thames, and that was a result desirable to be achieved. In conducting the negotiations the Government had imposed the strictest conditions; indeed, the conditions imposed were thought to he so stringent that at one time the purchasers thought of breaking off negotiations. The hon. member need not be afraid that he would not have an ample opportunity of investigating the matter, for, in

addition to the inquiry, they intended to bring in a Bill on the subject, and any explanation demanded would be given. In respect to the remark of the hon. member for Caversham, he had never said the words in the sense which the hon. member appeared to have taken them. It might be that the Government had not acted strictly legal in a lawyer's meaning of the term " legal," but in conducting the transactions they had not looked so much at the legal aspect of the matter as they had at what was just, fair, and equitable ; he defied anyone to say that they had not acted eqivitably. It was wrong to keep harping on the term '■'legal," for if the idea was imparted to the natives, the result might be trouble which would afterwards be regretted. He repeated that all the Government had clone had been right and equitable, and with a view to promote settlement ; and while the House had a perfect right to make inquiries, it ought to be allowed that the Government, coming into contact with the question in some phase or another every day, had a better knowledge than private members could possibly have, and this being so, it was unfair to make charges, until it could be shown that the charges were true. (Cheers.) MB. RUSSELL'S CREDENTIALS. Mr. ROLLESTON, in moving for copies of any instructions or credentials given to Mr. Thomas Russell, as representing or acting for the Colonial Government, said he observed that the credentials of Mr. Russell as far as regarded the mail service, but he should like to know whether that was the whole of the instructions given. There was one remarkable feature in the paper which had been presented, viz., that the House now learnt for the first time that during last session the Premier intended visiting England, for instead of taking the House into his confidence he had informed Mr. Thomas Russell of what his movements during the year were to be. The Hon. Mr. REYNOLDS said the whole of the instructions issued to Mr. Russell were on the table. Mr. WOOD said instructions issued to other persons would also be interesting to the House if they were vouchsafed. There were four Agents-General in England just now it seemed. First, there was Sir Julius Vogel, then Mr. Featherston, then Mr. Russell, and lastly the Crown Agents, and it would be exceedingly interesting to know what were the particular functions of these gentlemen, and the several amounts paid them. The colony was known to be laboring under serious difficulties, yet it had to pay out of borrowed money, and borrowed money only, large sums to four persons to perform work which Victoria and New South Wales managed to get done by one person, and at the cost of one salary. Mr. ROLLESTON replied, briefly remarking that the hon. member for Parnell would get the information he required if the next motion were carried. The motion was theu agreed to. THE COLONIAL AGENTS. Mr. ROLLESTON moved, that there be laid before this House a return showing in detail all the payments, allowances, or gratuities made or authorised to be made to any agent, or agents, or representatives of the Colonial Government, on account of services rendered outside the colony since the 30th June, 1874, specifying the services on account of which such expenditure has been made or authorised. Agreed to. THE ARMS ACT. Mr. GIBBS moved, that in the opinion of this House, it is expedient that the restrictions placed by the Arms Act, 1860, and Amending Acts, upon the sale of ammunition, gunpowder, lead, shot, &c, should be relaxed so far as is safe and expedient ; and that a respectful address be presented to his Excellency the Governor, praying him to exercise the powers in that behalf given by clause 4 of the Arms Act Continuance Act, 1861, so far as regards the Middle Island was withdrawn on the promise of the Native Minister that efforts would be made to relax the regulations where they pressed hardly on those in the. South, who have to purchase ammunition for the destruction of rabbits and vermin. Mr. VON DER HEYDE said the Government might also withdraw their restriction on the export of arms and ammunition, which fettered the trade of Auckland with the South Sea Islands, for which arms and ammunition were exeellent articles of trade. Mr. HUNTER earnestly trusted this last recommendation would not be adopted. Recent sad events would show them that such would be nearly tantamount to permitting a trade in blood. MEMBER OF COMMITTEE. Mr. Wales was appointed a member of the committee of selection relative to private Bills, in the room of the late Mr. Tolmie. The House theu adjourned.