PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 4179, 12 August 1874, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, August 11. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at two o’clock. PETITIONS. The Hon. Mr. Chamberlin presented a petition from the inhabitants of Raglan and Aotea, praying for road and telegraph communication. f The Hon. Mr. Mantell presented a petition from Huni Parai, praying that an investigation might he made as to the sale of barrack lands. The; Hon. Mr. Stokes presented three petitions from Hawke’s Bay against sanctioning a loan for harbor works at Hawke’s Bay. PRIVILEGE. The Hon. the SPEAKER said he had received a letter from the House of Representatives with a resolution by them that the House accept as satisfactory the apology of Mr. LuCkie for having been the means of publishing evidence taken before the Ward-Chapman Committee, and the expression of regret made by Mr. Ward for divulging his evidence, and that the House resolved to proceed no further with the matter. The Hon. Df. POLLEN moved that under the circumstances the Council also take no further steps in the matter. Carried. REPORT. The Hon. Mr. Menzies brought up the report of the Ward-Chapman Inquiry Comniittee > LYTTELTON GAS BILL. The Hon. Mr. PEACOCK moved the second reading of this Bill. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE drew attention to the omission'of a very important clause. It was usual in Gas Bills to insert a clause limiting the dividends to 20 per cent. He hoped after this intimation a clause would be inserted. The Horn Mr. MENZIES suggested the insertion of a clause empowering the Lyttelton Corporation to avail themselves, if they thought fit, of the powers of the Bill. The Hon. Mr. PEACOCK thought the suggestion of the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse reasonable, and would be prepared to insert such a clause, but opposed that of Mr. Menzies. The Borough would not undertake the works, the company had been formed, and the plant was on its way. The motion was carried, and the Bill read a second time. BRIDGE AT RIVERTON. The Hon. Mr. NURSE explained that the harbor at Riverton was formed by the confluence of twcf-rivers, one of which was navigable for some miles. There were several saw mills up the river, and if they wanted to send timber to Dunedin or elsewhere the bridge prevented them. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN said that works of this kind were of a local character, constructed by the funds of the Province. If the circumstances were such as represented, a legal remedy could readily be found. The attention of the Government hail been called to the subject, and if the Attorney-General could give an opinion he (Dr. Pollen) would take an opportunity of laying it before the Council. PUBLICATIONS FOB THE MAORIS. The Hon. Mr. HART moved, —“ That, in the opinion of this Council, in all publications for the use of the aboriginal inhabitants of this Colony, words which are the names of places and things unknown to such inhabitants before the settlement of Europeans in these islands, or names given by Europeans to places, should be printed in English.” He stated that the object of the motion was not to evoke an expression of the Council on the subject, hut to draw the attention of the Council to it. At present, Europeans and Natives have each to learn the meaning of the words, as in the case of the words used for Parliament and-New Zealand. He thought it would do much in breaking down the wall of partition between the races if the English words were used instead of the bastard words employed. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL said that he had amused himself with listening to the remarks of his hon. friend when describing the language used in the new Maori newspaper. His laughter had been excited, not by the remarks of his hon. friend, but by analysing the bastard words used in the different paragraphs of the paper. [The hon. gentleman created some amusement by quoting a few of the expressions used.] He thought the resolution went.further than was prudent at present, and suggested that the English words should be bracketed ✓with the Maori equivalent. The motion was earned. WAIPA AND RAGLAN ROAD. The Hon. Mr. CHAMBERLIN moved, — “ That there be laid upon the table copies of any further correspondence or papers which may be in the possession of the Government relating to the making of the Waipa and Raglan Road, in addition to those contained in a return to an order of this Council, laid upon the table, of the 31st July last.” Carried.' ’ TREATMENT OP LUNATICS. The Hon. Colonel BRETT resumed the debate, by expressing the gratitude of the country to Captain Eraser for the eloquent remarks with which his motion was introduced, and for the time he had devoted to the subject. He rose for the purpose of exempting the Asylum in Canterbury from the remarks of his hon. friend. With reference to Colonial institutions of this nature, the hon. gentleman referred to the great improvements introduced by the Superintendent, and hoped that whatever motion the Council agreed to would not have the effect of superseding that really valuable officer. The Hon. Captain ERASER was sorry that the Hon. Dr. Renwick was not in his place, as that gentleman had warned them in grave tones against what he termed the “experiment," whereas it had been for many years in operation in America, and recently in England. He had the authority of Mr. Rolleston for saying, that if that gentleman Had had his own way, the modem system would have been introduced long ago. The hon. member then referred to a notable case of incarceration which had taken place at Home, and said that we also had a “skeleton in the cupboard” in tills Colony, and referred to a similar case which had occurred in New Zealand. He read a report in this case, which he said he would place in the hands of the Colonial Secretary, knowing that hon. gentleman would see justice done to this unfortunate man. In addition to the name of Mr. Rolleston, he might -also mention those of Mr. Curtis of Nelson, and Mr. Wilson of Auckland, as willing to introduce the modem system into their respective Provinces. The motion was carried. CONVEYANCING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT BILL. The amendment of the House of Representatives on the amendment passed by the Council on the Conveyancing Ordinance Amendment Act—making its operation future instead of retrospective—was agreed to, IMPRISONMENT FOB DEBT ABOLITION BILL, The Hon. Dr. POLLEN in moving the second reading of this Bill, observed it was a measure introduced by the Government, and, after careful consideration, had been passed b/ the House of Representatives. The third clause was in the exact words of the English Act. The exemption from the operation of the Act was in case of quasi-criminal proceedings, and was a punishment for the wrong doing, and not for the recovery of the debt. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE had great pleasure in supporting the Bill. The Bill had been wonderfully improved, and, as it now stood, was of a beneficial nature. The Bill was read. NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved the second reading of this Bill The BiU repealed that of 1858, and provided for the constitution of a new University. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE expressed his gratification in learning that during tho last four years the angry passions which the measure had at first excited, had cooled clown, and that im amicable arrangement had been come to. He thought tho University would oxert a beneficial effect on the Colony. Tho motion was carried, and the BiU read a second time.

HOKITIKA MAYORS BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Bonab this Bill was read a second time. BILLS COMMITTED. The following Bills were then considered in Committee Imprisonment for Debt Abolition Bill ; New Zealand University Bill, (progress reported); Hokitika Mayors BUI; Burial Ground Closing Bill, (progress reported) ; Presbyterian Church of Otago Lands Bill ; Merchant Shipping Act Adoption Bill; Municipal Corporation Act Amendment BiU ; Regulation of Mines BiU. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE carried an amendment that clause 4—restricting the labor of females, young persons, and children —come into operation on the passing of the Act. Municipal Corporations Gasworks BiU, (progress reported). On resuming, the following Bills were read a third time and passed :—lmprisonment for Debt Abolition BiU ; Hokitika Mayors Bill ; Presbyterian Church of Otago Lands BiU; Merchant Shipping Act Adoption BiU ; Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill. In Committee, the Municipal Corporations Bill was considered. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE said that if a limiting clause was necessary in private companies’ Bills, it was much more so in Corporation BiUs. In the Waterworks Bills, the rates were governed by a similar clause. As far as he had seen, Corporations were just as liable to jobbery and intriguing as private companies, and he thought a clause of tins kind should he inserted. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN pointed out the difference between private and Corporation gas works. In the former, the shareholders would like to see the largest dividends; whereas in the latter, the ratepayers had tho affair in their own hands, and could protect themselves. He would, however, act upon the suggestion of his hon. friend, Mr. Waterhouse. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE, on Clause 31 being read, moved as an amendment that the Clause be struck out. A long discussion ensued, in which most of the hon. members took part. On a division the amendment was carried by 17 to 6, and the clause was struck out. Progress was then reported. The Real Estate Descent Bill was also considered in Committee, and progress reported. The Wellington Education Reserves Bill was next considered and reported with amendments. The Provincial Fencing Laws Empowering Bill was also considered, and reported without amendment. On resuming, the Provincial Fencing Laws Empowering Act was read a third time and passed. The Wellington Special Settlements Act Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed. MARLBOROUGH WASTE LANDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL, The adjourned debate on the question—- “ That the BiU be now read the second time; and the amendment of the Hon. Captain Fraser —That the word ‘now’ be omitted, with a view to add the words ‘ this day six months’ —was resumed. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN did not think the present Bill an improvement on the Act of 1867.' Under clause 3 ti town section might be 320 acres. In the old Act the largest amount to be paid in land is £l5O. The amendment on this proposed to give the Provincial Council unlimited control of the waste lands of the Province. He would not, however, oppose the second reading of the Bill. The Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL supported the amendment. He had never been in Marlborough, but he considered the Bill as neat a little swindle as he had ever seen. He did not believe in that kind of legislation. To comprehend the scope of clause 2, hon. members ought to have the Marlborough Waste Lands Act, 1867, in their hands, in order to know what are the clauses repealed by the present measure. He could not conceive a more extravagant way of dealing with the waste lands or of constructing public works. The proper way was to aeU the land for cash, and pay for works out of the receipts. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE supported the amendment. It appeared to him that they would, by this measure, be legalising the system of truck. Anyone undertaking works on those terms would require a very large margin, and the land market would he “beared" by the quantity of land scrip floating about. The Hon. Mr. MENZIES was unable to see that the present measure was in any way inferior to the Act of 1867, and thought that the Bill might be altered in Committee. The Hon. Mr. ROBINSON supported the amendment. He did not see a redeeming feature in the Bill It did not benefit a single class of the community. It did not benefit the poor man, and he thought that a stop should be put to the system of truck which the measure encouraged. The Hon. Mr. BONAR though all the objection might he remedied in Committee. His own experience of payment in land was extremely unsatisfactory. The contractor always put a much 1 >wer value on the land than what it was worth. He hoped the Council would assent to the second reading. The Hon. Mr. PATERSON supported the second reading, though there were many things objectionable in its 11 present shape, but these might be modified in Committee. The Hon. Mr. BUCKLEY thought that the General Government had not in former years paid sufficient attention to the waste lands of the Colony. In Canterbury the powers given them of paying in land had not been availed of, as they did not think they got value for their money. The Hon. Mr. BAILLIB quite agreed with the remarks made with reject to payments in land. They did not get twenty shillings for their pound. The land revenue for last year was £1843, while land paid away was £4873. If the Bill were not passed the power still existed in the old Statute, and would be acted on. The limit of £l5O, as provided by the old Act, was evaded every day. On a division, the amendment was lost by 16 to 5. The Bill was read a second time. 1 IN COMMITTEE The Juries’ Act Amendment Bill was considered, and reported without amendment. On resuming, the Bill was read a third time and passed. The Council adjourned at 10 o’clock. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, August 11. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. the ward-chapman committee. Mr. J. L. Gillies brought up an interim report by the above Committee. MESSAGES. Messages from the Governor were received covering the Immigration Estimates for 1874-5, and the Provincial Public Works Advances Act, 1874 ; and providing for the construction and purchase of railways. Mr. Vogel proposed to take the consideration of the Messages to-morrow, before going on with the other business. ministerial statement on immigration. Mr. VOGEL observed that in referring the Immigration Estimates to the Committee of Supply ho intended to make a short statement on the subject of Immigration. (Several hon. members ; ‘ When!’) He proposed to do it then, laying the Estimates on the table forming a suitable opportunity of saying a fewwordsupon immigration generally. Hear.) He did not propose to make any lengthened statement. In the papers that had been laid before tho House, and placed in the hands of hon. members at various times during the session, would he found so complete a description of the history of the immigration proceedings, that it would bo unnecessary for him to detain the House by any lengthened statement. The expenditure up to the 30th June last, brought to account within tho Colony—hon. members must bear that in mind—amounted to £439,000 : so that out of the original million

there remained the, sum of £560,000 unexpended. The first-mentioned siim did not provide for expenditure on account of the immigrants now on the way out, but the completed expenditure, according to the receipts received in the Colony. He was not going to make a statement of the, general results of immigration, because the statistics placed in hon. members hands were much more satisfactory. The total results were as follows : During the year 1873-4, that was from June 30, 1873, to June 30, 1874, there arrived in the Colony 17,513 souls; whilst previously there had arrived in the Colony, under the Immigration and Public Works Acts, 7503 souls, making a total up to the 30th of June last of 25,016 souls. At the same time there were on the 30th of June. the very large number of 14,530 souls—considerably more than half the number introduced into the Colony up to that date—on the- water and on their way out to the Colony. The correspondence laid on the table showed the entire history of the immigration proceedings during the past year. Hon. members would observe that at the end of last session the Government sent Home peremptory instructions to introduce a system of free immigration, the number of immigrants arriving in the Colony not being adequate to our wants. The system was at once commenced, with the result to place at the command of New Zealand, within reasonable limits, almost any number the Colony might desire should he procured. It was idle to deny that the Government were not pleased with the way in which the department of the Agent-General was managed by him. The correspondence showed unmistakeably that there were many points of difference between the Government and the Agent-General. But it was only right to say that they recognised that the Agent-General had worked most zealously, according to his own idea of what seemed to be required. Proceeding to notice the chief points about which there had been disagreement between the Agent-General and the Government, first, in respect to the selection of immigrants,— notwithstanding all that had been said, and that complaints had been made of certain immigrants who had arrived in the Colony, the Government were of opinion that on the whole the selection of immigrants who had arrived had been such that the Colony should be well satisfied with it. (Hear.) They could not possibly bring out a large number of immigrants without some black sheep being amongst them. On the whole we had been very fortunate with the immigrants introduced during the past year. But they could not help recognising that there was no sufficient security that such would be the case in future. They could not disguise from themselves that the machinery under which immigrants obtained passages to the Colony was such that it might be used for obtaining passages for objectionable persons. They hacf been, fortunate that the effect of an impulse being given to emigration to New Zealand had not been to reach that class which yielded very undesirable immigrants. The machinery now in operation was that emigrants were passed upsu the production of a certificate in writing from persons who knew, or were supposed to know, -the emigrants. It was liable to he abused, and in •some few oases had been abused, by'persons obtaining fictitious signatures. ’ Therefore, they could not fail to see this, that if after a time the impulse given to immigration to New Zealand, which was gradually becoming greater and greater as the success of those who came out became known at Home, should develop itself to any wide extent, there was not sufficient precaution in the interests of the Colony in the machinery for selection now adopted. To put the case more plainly, he thought something more in the way of what some of the Provinces had themselves adopted, in having agents whose special duty was to approve and select the immigrants, was desirable. His own opinion was that New Zealand could not only now get all the immigrants it required, but had a very large range of selection. The Government did not approve of the arrangements at Home for placing the emigrants in depots, nor did they think the medical examination sufficient. They found some ships were allowed to proceed to sea with very defective appliances, and they very much deplored the small accommodation given to that class of immigrants which was more valuable than any other class, viz., those nominated in the Colony. As yet these were only a small proportion of those brought into the country, but endeavors would be made to put that system to more beneficial use than it had been during the past year. Hon. members might perhaps ask—why come down with complaints and statements respecting differences of opinion between the Government and one of its officers? Did not the Government recognise this officer like other officers in the service and under the direction of the Government. The Government did recognise that, but naturally if he was to be asked to explain he must make reference to the subject. The Government recognised tho zeal and ability of the Agent-General, hut they also recognised that it was desirable, and that it was the duty of the Government, to take care that its views were carried out. The House, if it so desired, should have the opportunity of expressing its opinion upon the subject. On the one hand, there was the Government, 16,000 miles away from the base of operations, and, on the other hand, the AgentGeneral, who wrote from the spot, and had larger opportunities of knowing what was going on around him, and between the directions the Government gave and the reasons the Agent-General alleged for not giving effect to them must hon. members form their opinions. The correspondence triumphantly showed that the views of the Government could be carried out. But putting that on one side, the Government considered it to be their duty to require that their views should be carried out if those views received the sanction of the Assembly. On the estimates, when they came on for consideration, there wuuld be opportunities for considering some of the points that had been raised. For example, the Government proposed to take a vote for it 1 couple of medical officers, which would raise one question, and had put down a vote for agencies in the United Kingdom, which would raise another question. He would be sorry if he had left in members’ minds any impression that he had intended to say anything unfavorable to the Agent-General ; on the contrary, praise was due to him for his zeal and vigor, and for the great amount of. work begot through. His department was unquestionably a large one, and ho (Mr. Yogel) believed he suffered veiy much from want of proper officers, to assist him. To some extent tho Agent-General might he blamed for that, because he was not willing to take the officers sent Home to him from the Colony, and who might have been of advantage to him. The department had grown to a very great size, and the difficulties of organising it had very much fallen to the Agent-General, and in managing the financial operations the Agent-General had co-operated” ably and zealously with the Crown Agents. > He wished hon. members to understand that he was by no means inclined to have it supposed that the Government totally disapproved of the proceedings of tho Agent-General; on th« contrary, they felt that in many respects he was most able to fill the position he held. With respect to the proceedings of next year, he might say that the Government did not feed themselves able to state what number of immigrants they considered would bo absorbed if introduced during tho year. He had a feeling of doubt as to the extent it would he desirable to continue the scale of immigration. The power ot the Colony to absorb immigrants had lately been very hardly tested. Finding as they did that by limiting the emigrants' departure from England to certain months—or rather their arrival in the Colony to certain months—of the year, excluding the winter months from the time of arrival, they discouraged immigration very materially at just the season when it was most likely to bo vigorous, they withdrew from the Agent-General restrictions previously placed upon him, and allowed him to continue immigration all the year round. The consequence had been, ns he had already stated, that the absorbing capacity of the Colony had been severely tested ; that large numbers of our immigrants , had arrived at tho very time of the year that was most unsuitable for obtaining them employment ; but it was really remarkable how the Colony'

..had., shown itself. able to absorb the immense number'that had sometimes arrived within a few days of each other. As to whether or not im migration should he kept Up on the same scale, he was not going to express any positive opinion ; his own idea was that it should be modified to some extent. . At any rate it should be left to the discretion of the Government to regulate it as they found necessary. A great deal of the power of the Colony to absorb immigrants would depend on the manner in which they were able to introduce the immigrants into the interior. He was glad to say it had been done jfith the happiest results during the past yea* Immigrants had been introduced into the. interior in various parts of the country by means of the establishment of depots in country ■ : districts and by the local agencies that were employed. He did not wish to he egotistical ox’ -■ to take credit to himself, but he could not refrain from saying that it appeared to him there could hardly be any question, that the local management of immigration had been on the whole exceedingly successful. Especially in the Provinces of Otago and Canterbury, the manner in which the immigrants had been seen to and sent to various parts of the country was calculated to excite the warmest feelings of admiration. He acknowledged the great assistance he had received from the Superintendents of those Provinces, and without wishing to be invidious, could not help making special mention of his indebtedness to the Superintendent of Canterbury, who had not only given an ordinary amount of official assistance but had personally demoted himself to the subject with zeal and ability beyond any expression of praise ho (Mi-. Vogel) could possibly utter. He wag also indebted to him for the large amount of attention he had given' to immigration matters during the past year, which had enabled him (Mr. Vogel) on many occasions toderivofrom him much useful assistance by Way of advice. He saw it stated In a newspaper that he (Mr. Vogel) had borrowed the system of free immigration from Canterbury. That was not altogether the case. The question was a disputed one in Canterbury, the people there, as he understood, being in favor of limiting the system to immigrants nominated in the Colony. But the subject had been very much discussed, and had been for some time under the consideration of the Colonial Government. But upon another very impox-tant matter he felt bound to say that the Government derived not only muclx assistance, but to some extent the original conception, from an hon. member of the House. He alluded to tho establishment of depots in country districts. The hon. gentleman referred to most forcibly drew his (Mr. Vogel’s) attention to the fact that the introduction of a large number of immigrants would materially depend upon the manner in which they were distributed through the country disti-icts, and urged that it was desix-able the Government should incur considerable expense in building depots in suitable places, with the view of promoting that distribution. The Government had carried that plan oxit' on a large scale in the Estimates now before, the House. Upon the manner iri which they'were able to locate the immigrants would; in' his opinion, depend the power of the GolMny to absorb a larger or smaller nurijher of people ; and the Government had taken' libex-al estimates for the purpose. They had also taken votes not so much for the purpose of offering employment to hrinugiants as of opening up roads, and of locating them in places that otherwise would not be suitable for settlement. It was because the Government could not guage the extent of the success which might attend their efforts to locate immigrants thi-oughout different parts of the country, that they could not tell positively what would be the absorbing power of the Colony ■ in that respect. He would now say a few words upon immigration generally. They had taken for the location and distribution of immigrants, the sum of £275,000, instead of £250,000 last year; but hon. members would recollect that a large portion of that sum would he almost immediately absorbed on account of the large number of immigrants now on the water. They had put down, in addition to the items to which he refex-red, such as medical officers and six months agencies in the United Kingdom, two classes of votes to which he directed special attention. One class of votes, was for tlie establishment of depots at the cost of the Colony, and the px-operty in which would remain in the Colony. The other class was advances to Provinces for the purposes of locating settlers, and the construction ot cottages upon terms which were described in the correspondence, and which involved repayment of the advances by the Provincial Governments over a period, of four years. In making these various votes the Government had been guided by the consideration of the pax-ticular circumstances of each Province for which they were making pi-6vision. They had taken each Province upon its merits and dealt with it accordingly as- they thought it desirable. For example, Canterbury, with its immense surplus lying comparatively' idle in the bank, had no object in borrowing £SOOO at 5 percent.; and when this question came before the Superintendent to- construct cottages under advances from the General Government, to be repaid-with interest in three or. four years, he naturally felt there was no advantage to him in adopting such- a'proposal, but there were other Provinces; that had shown' themselves very incliiifeil to adopt that principle; and Where' that had been the case provision was made accordingly. In some Provinces the -construction of depots had already gorle nil td a’considerable extent, but in others everything' remained' to bo done. He had further to state, in reference, to the items generally, ; that some ' of them'' represented uncompleted works, and to some extent they were in the nature of covering existing liabilities, whilst in other cases they were wholly for new works. In the Province of Auckland they proposed for Country depots, construction, rent, and management £8000; and for advances for works in connection with location of settlers, including advance for cottages, £9OOO. Taranaki was dealt with upon its own merits; Taranaki and Auckland had received a very small proportionate share of the benefits of immigration when it was considered for how large an amount they were responsible in proportion to their revenue. In Taranaki for depots and advances for works in connection with location of settlers, including advances for cottages, £20,000. With this money they proposed to cut roads through the i-ich hush lands of tho Province, and to make the land available for sale.; .There is no doubt the value of this land would be immensely enhanced, and the advance would he made upon terms that would give to , the Colony a security, over the land. In 'Hawke's Bay, for country depots, rent, and management, £2OOO ; and for advances for works in connection with location of settlers, including advances of cottages, £9OOO. Wellington ,was a Province dealt with in a manner which he thought would meet the approval of the committee, although at first sight it might, seem that the Government put down a very large sura, but hon. members would recollect that during the recess it was proposed to advance, for purposes of settlement, and some other purposes, the sum of £66,000 upon the security of blocks of land to he made available for purposes of settlement. The Provincial Council had passed an appropriation against the proposed amount of £66,000, but looking over that appropriatidn it was clear that £6OOO of the amount might be properly considered as part of what was to be called promotion of settlement. Therefore they hadnorighttocharge that £6OOO to the loan, but to charge it as an advance from consolidated revenue. i The £60,000 would-; be paid in advance on land for public works > in: connection with settlement, on-terms provided by the Provincial Public Works --Advances Act, 1874. This BUI provided ,f<n- all the advances to Provinces as intimated to the Hoxxse when the Financial Statement was made. . It dealt with all .the advances excepting two, which would find their places in the Immigration and Public Works and Railways Acts—the, latter being one which will deal with the'proposed purchase of the Otago railways; while the Immigration and Public Works .Act would deal witlx mining works in the Province of Auckland. Besides the £60,000 to' Wellington, there would he advances for cottages, £3OOO, Under the head of Nelson, there was an item of £3OOO for the construction of depots, Stc.,

and £BOOO for advances in connection with the location of settlers, including advances for cottages. They did not put down a large sum for Nelson under that head, because a measure was to be brought down to give the Province a loan of £50,000. - He thought the House would agree with him that it was best to call a spade a spade; and when making advances, no matter what peculiar form they might assume, that the advances should be recognised as such whether they came down in one Bill or another, and looked upon as so much money, which the Colony lent or gave its credit to allow the loan being obtained. To Marlborough they proposed to make a loan of £14,000, for advances for works in connection with the location of settlers; anti £2OOO for opening up roads in certain districts, where it was represented to the Government very valuable timber might be made available for use. The expenditure would be subject to the approval of the Minister of Public Works, and the work would go on under his surveillance, and upon such terms as might be agreed upon between the Superintendent and the Minister of Works. In Westland they proposed £2OOO for depots, and £12,000 for advances for works in connection with the location of settlers. The primary object of this £12,000 was to enable the Government of Westland to extend the settlement of the Province to its southern boundary, and to establish a settlement in the neighborhood of Jackson’s Bay. For Canterbury there was no object for putting down an advance, because the Province did not require it. £BOOO was put down for depots, &c. For Otago, which had largely availed itself of Colonial funds, and had rendered valuable assistance in constructing cottages in terms of his letter of November last, he put down £IO,OOO for advances to the Province for the erection of cottages and for. works in connection with the location of settiers ; and £6OOO for depots, &c. He might say,' generally, with respect to the Estimates, that they had been framed with a view of meeting the circumstances of the several Provinces and the greatest amount of care been taken with them. He would be happy to give any further explanations when considering the estimates, or at any other time the House might consider suitable. He concluded by moving that the estimates should be considered in Committee of Supply, which was agreed to, TREATY or WAITANGI. Mr. TAIAROA asked, —“By what authority any land below highwater mark has been reclaimed for public purposes on the North Island, and whether such reclamations are not in contravention of the rights reserved as to fisheries to the Native race by the treaty of Waitangi ; and if infringment of the treaty has taken place, how the Maori people can obtain compensation.” Mr. McLEAN was understood to say that laud below highwater mark was granted to Superintendents under the Act of 1854, and dealt with by that Act. It had been held that with ' any territory ceded to the Crown all the rights appertaining thereto, such as rivers, streams, and all that was beneath and above the surface, were also ceded. Most treatiej drawn up in that form had been adhered to strictly. He did not think there had been any instance of an infringment of the treaty of Waitangi, as suggested by the hon. member, and most Governments in New Zealand had been particularly careful in observing every public treaty in which the Native race were concerned. TESTING NATIVE TIMBERS. Mr. T. KELLY asked, —“ What action the Government have taken to carry into effect the resolution of the House last session, viz. ; ‘That it is desirable that an inquiry be made by the Government into the qualities of New Zealand timber, with the view to determine to what purpose the several varieties may be respectively' applied in the construction- of public works. Also, to inquire and determine whether timber, which in its natural state is not sufficiently durable for railway sleepers, can be economically used for that purpose by increasing its durability by impregnating it with the waste products of gasworks, or by other process. Also to inquire and determine, as far as possible, what is the best season of the year for Jelling trees intended for timber purposes, and the best method of seasoning timber, both immediately after felling and after cutting the same. That the result of such inquiries be laid on the table of ’the House next session.’” Mr. RICHARDSON replied to the first part of the question to the effect that the Public Works Department, through its various offices, had been gathering as much information as possible concerning the various descriptions of timber to be found in the different Provinces. A great deal of information had been obtained from those sources, but the Department had not, up to the present, been able to put it into tangible and useful shape. As to whether timber could be economically used for railway purposes, by increasing its durability by impregnating it with the waste products of gasworks or by other process, he had to state that the Engineer Of the Wellington Gas Company was in communication with the Public Works Department, and made an offer to put up machinery necessary for the purpose, but he imposed such conditions that nothing could be done. Experiments had been tried on a small scale in Otago by Messrs. Brogden arid Sons, but'were not successful with the timber that had been submitted, he believed more from the want of proper machinery than from the fact, as some people alleged, of the grain of the timber being too close to permit of its impregnation with gas tar. With regard to the thud part of the the Government would endeavor to get the best information it could, not only through the officers of the Public Works Department, but had employed Mr. Kirk, who was very ; well versed in matters connected with the growth of forest timber, and his report had been placed on the table ; and from it members would derive much information. The question still occupied the attention of the department, and was one of vital importance as affecting the whole of the public works of the Colony. APPOINTMENT OP MAYORS TO THE COMMISSION OF THE PEACE. Mr. MACANDREW asked—“lf there be any reason for the names .of the Mayors of Dunedin, Milton, Clyde, Lawrence, and Palmerston having been omitted from the Gazette notice intimating the appointment of the other Mayors in the Province of Otago, as ex officio Justices of the ' Peace ; under the Municipal Corporations Empowering Act, 1865.” ; ;Mr. O’RORKE replied in reference to the Dunedin Mayor, that some little delay had taken place in regard to gazetting him as a Justice of thq. Peace, in consequence of, when his name was submitted, an application being made that he should also be gazetted as a Resident Magistrate, and considering that the Mayor’s,Court of Dunedin had been abolished, the Government finally decided that they would not appoint him Resident Magistrate. His appointment as Justice, of ■ the Peace would be gazetted on Thursday. With regard to the Mayor of Milton, as the hon, member was aware that the occupation of the person holding that position was that of a publican —(Mr. Murray : No.), That was the information the Government possessed, and it was not customary to appoint to the Commission of the Peace persons following the occupation of publicans. Mr. MACANDREW: He is a baker, I understand. Mr. O’RORKE was understood to reply that if his information was not correct the appointment would be made. Mr. MURRAY informed the Minister of Justice that the Mayor of Milton was . a grocer. , Mr. O’RORKE would ascertain why he was supplied with wrong information. With regard to the Mayors of Clyde and Lawrence, intimation was not received in time to allow of their beirig gazetted last week, but their appointments would bo gazetted next week. At present the Government had not received any report as to who had been elected Mayor of Palmerston. • Mr. MACANDREW, if in order, would like to suggest that if publicans were ineligible to hold the appointment of ex officio Justices of the Peace, the House should pass a law to that effect, so that constituencies might know the exact state of the case. , ■

ADDITIONAL LIGHTHOUSES. Mr. O’NEILL asked—" (1.) Whether the Government will give the ■ House full information relative to the establishment of additional lighthouses on the Coasts of New New Zealand. (2.) And state the amount proposed to be placed upon the Estimates for the erection of such lighthouses. (3.) And the position or sites recommended, and approved of by the Government for additional lighthouses.” Mr. REYNOLDS intimated that in a few days he would make a statement of what the Government intended to do in regard to lighthouses throughout the Colony. BILLS. The following second readings were agreed to ;—Public Revenues Act Amendment Bill and Immigration and Public Works Loan Bill. [Our report of the debate on the latter is held over.] The following Bills passed :—-New Zealand Forests Bill, Naval Training Schools Bill, Petty Session Act Amendment Bill, Otago Reserves Bill, Christchurch Drainage Debenture Bill, Oamaru Harbor Boai'd Land Bill, Auckland Harbor Bill, Harbor Board Act Amendment Bill, Regulations of Elections Act Amendment Bill, and Whakataki Grants Bill. LICENSING ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The House then -went into Committee on this Bill. On the 25th clause, Mr. VOGEL proposed to fill up the blank as to the cost of a temporary transference of license with the word “two,” and the additional words at the end, “or such other fee as may from time to time be agreed to by the legislature of the Province.” The clause as amended was agreed to. On the 28 th clause Mr. VOGEL proposed the addition of the words “or any two members of the licensing bench,” after the word “magistrate,” which was agreed to. The word “market” was inserted after the word “ fair,” and the period of seven days reduced to four. Mr. SWANSON objected, to holders of licenses being allowed to sell alcoholic liquors in theatres, and also in places to which children resort on holidays. He moved that the words “ theatre ” and “ music hall ” be struck out. Mr. McGLASHAN reminded the hon. member that the clause was purely “ permissive.” After some remarks from Mr. O'Cqnok, Mr. May, Mr. T. Kelly, and Major Atkinson, Mr. SWANSON said he would -withdraw his motion if it were left to the Provincial Councils to deal with the matter. Mr. VOGEL said the terms of the clause excluded it from the action of Provincial Council. He agreed, however (at the instance of Mr. O’Conor) to leave the fee to be fixed by Provincial Councils. Mr. SWANSON’S amendment was put and agreed to. Major ATKINSON suggested that dancing saloons should be added to the clause as places to which licenses should not be granted. Mr. VOGEL thought the introduction of dancing saloons would somewhat puzzle the magistrates. He proposed to meet the difficulty by adding the word “ like ” between “ other ” and “ places of amusement.” After observations from Mr. Wales, Mr. White, Mr. Fox, Mr. Hunter, and Mr. Wakefield, The amendment was withdrawn. The clause was further amended, so as to enable a Resident Magistrate, or two members of the licensing bench, to permit any house or premises to be kept open for the sale of liquor on the occasion of any public ball, dinner, or festivity for such period as they may think fit. The word “ two” was inserted before “pounds” in the latter part of the clause, which was then agreed to. On the 29th clause—rules for the conduct of business at licensing meetings—an amendment was proposed by Mr. THOMSON to provide that a retail store should not be under the same roof as a licensed house. Mr. FOX supported the amendment. The amendment was adopted. Sub-section sevUn of the same clause was struck out, and a new sub-section added giving power to Licensing Courts to adjourn from time to time,- and leave to be granted to renew rejected applications, at such adjourned meetings ; nothing contained in the subsection to prevent any person renewing his application at any subsequent quarterly meeting of the Licensing Court. Mr. FOX strongly opposed the sub-section, as removing the last obstacle to an objectionable person obtaining a license or a renewal of one. The amendment was adopted to, and the subsection agreed to. On the Bth sub-section, permitting counsel to appear in cases of new applications, and giving him or his client the right to reply, Mr. FOX moved that the objectors by memorial should also be permitted to appearand be heard. Mr. SWANSON opposed the amendment, unless it was understood that only one should appear for all the objectors. Mr. FOX said that was all that was wanted. Mr. HARRISON thought lawyers should not be allowed to appear. The amendment was assented to, and the' clause was agreed to. Clause 30—penalty for insulting the Chairman, or any member or clerk of a Licensing Court while it was sitting—was verbally amended and agrfeed to. Clauses 31, 32, 33, 34, and 35 were agreed to without amendment. It was proposed to amend clause 36 by inserting “Provincial Account” in place of “ Now Zealand Public Account,” as that into which the fees of the Licensing Courts should be paid. Mr. VOGEL said the fees were intended to meet the expenses of administering the Act. He would rather see the fees left to the district in which they arose. Mr. O’CONOR said the chief portion of the expenses of the Licensing Courts were at present paid by the Provincial Government. Mr. VOGEL would assent to the amendment if a new clause were added, charging all the expenses of administering the Act to the Provinces. Major ATKINSON objected to such an arrangement. Mr. W. KELLY said it was much better to leave the clause as it was. Mr. ROLLESTON took the same view. The clause was agreed to. On clause 37, “ refreshment licenses at railway stations may be granted by the Minister for Public Works”— , Mr. FOX objected, and thought these licenses should in no way be different from others. He cited the refreshment-room at the station at Port Chalmers —respecting which he read a letter complaining that nothing but drink could be had there, and that it was merely a drinking shop for sailors—in support of his view. He suggested the postponement of the clause. Mr. ROLLESTON regretted that the hon, member should grossly exaggerate his case. But for that exaggeration he would have supported him. > ■ Mr. FOX denied that he had overrated the rapacity of the Provincial authorities in their efforts to obtain revenue through licenses. Mr. RICHARDSON defended the clause. Ho would take care that the railway refreshment rooms should be properly conducted, and their utility was unquestionable. He disputed the accuracy, from his own personal experience, of the statements as to the state of the Port Chalmers railway station refreshment room. Mr. HUNTER, though he usually sympathised with the hon. member for Rangitikei, denied that his remarks as to Provincial rapacity had any reference whatever to Wellington. They were not reduced to so low a condition as to be compelled to grant a license merely for the sake of the fee. Mr. FOX insisted that Ids statements were not exaggerated, and quoted an instance of a license granted to a house in Palmerston, which thoroughly demoralised the Scandinavians there, who were taken out of the village drunk in cartloads. The clause was then agreed to. The 38th (and last) clause, was then agreed to. Mr. FOX appealed to the Government to adjourn the further consideration of the measure.

Mr. VOGEL hoped that the Committee would proceed with business. The postponed clause (the 24th) was amended and agreed to. The 18th—renewals to be granted as a matter of course unless objection given—was abandoned. Mr. FOX said this removed his chief objection to the Bill as it stood. Mr. PEARCE regretted the omission of the clause, which was one of the best 'in the Bill. They -would never have a proper class of publicans until they had security of tenure. Several new clauses proposed by the Government were then agreed to, and also a number adopted by the Ministry at the instance of -Mr. Fox. A new clause proposed by Mr. Fox, to provide that “ clubs ” should be regarded as hotels, was negatived by 24 to 10. A provision in a new clause, that if a' publican applied to a Resident Magistrate for an order to permit dancing or music in his house, it should be heard in open Court, was negatived by 20 to 16. Mr. Vogel proposed that a rider should be added to the clause providing that it should not operate to prevent a publican’s family having music and dancing in their own house. An addition to the clause to that effect was agreed to. Mr Fox, however, desired to withdraw the clause, but it was negatived on the voices. A new clause, intended to put down the employment of girls in dancing-saloons, was agreed to. Mr. Fox next moved the clause of which he had given notice, to prevent the employment of females in bars, and supported it in a characteristic speech. Mr. Vogel took a practical view of the case. The clause was negatived. Mr. Fox next proposed to place barmaids in the same position as factory girls, as regards the hours of labor. Mr. Steward proposed an amendment to limit the hours to ten hours daily, between 11 a.m. and 11 p.m., excepting from the operation of the Act the publican’s wife andfamily. Mr. Fox’spropositionwasnegatived, Mr. Fox next proposed that every public bar and every place where intoxicating liquors were sold should have -windows facing the street, not blinded, so that everybody who passed might see what was going on within, and attributed the origin of the idea to the Premier, in a speech delivered in 1872. The clause was negatived by 24 to 9. Mr. Fox next proposed a clause for the appointment of Commissioners of the liquor trade, and inspectors of publichouses, and appealed to the Government for support. . After some observations from Mr. Vogel, Mr. Fox withdrew the clause and others he had intended to propose, expressing a hope that Mr. Vogel would in another year bring in a well considered Consolidation Bill to control the liquor traffic. Pressed by Sir J. C. Wilson, however, who promised to vote with him, Mr. Fox withdrew his withdrawal. On a division the clause was rejected. Mr. STEWARD’S amendment was agreed to by 21 to 12 ; and a penal clause, to give effect to that amendment, was agreed to -without a division. The schedule was then agreed to, and the Bill reported with amendments. The amendments were ordered to be considered next evening. The House adjourned at ten minutes past three o’clock a.m.