PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 4175, 7 August 1874, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thousday, August 6. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at two o’clock. CIYII. SERVICE ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved, —“That the Civil Service Acts Amendment Bill b.e referred to a Select Committee, to consist of the Hon. Mr. Hart, the Hon. G. R. Johnson, the Hon. Mr. Paterson, the Hon. Capt. Eraser, and the mover.” The Hon. Mr. MANTELL failed to see the utility of such a Committee, unless the words “ with power to call for persons and papers were added. • The Hon. Dr. POLLEN was understood to say that all necessary papers would be placed at the service of the Committee. ■ The names of the Hon. Mr. Bonar and the Hon. Mr. Mantell having been added, the motion was carried. WELLINGTON SPECIAL SETTLEMENTS BILL. On the motion of the Hon Mr. Waterhouse, this Bill was ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole Council on Friday. WARD-CHAPMAN INQUIRY COMMITTEE. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Ackland, the time for bringing up the report of this Committee was extended to Thursday, 13th inst., OAMARU HOSPITAL RESERVES BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Millar, this Bill was ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole Council on Friday. GOVERNMENT INSURANCE AND ANNUITIES BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Dr. Pollen this Bill was read a third time, passed, and transmitted to the other Chamber for its concurrence with the amendments. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion of the Hon. Dr. Pollen the second reading of this Bill was discharged from the Order Paper, and made an order of the day for Friday. WESTPORT BOROUGH PROCEEDINGS VALIDATION BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN explained the circumstances which had rendered this Bill necessary, and moved its second reading. The motion was carried and the Bill read a second time. BURIAL GROUND CLOSING BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN, understanding that his hon. friend Mr. Stokes had an amendment to propose, in order that notice of such motion might be given, moved that the second reading of the Bill be made an order of the day for Friday. Carried. IN COMMITTEE. The Constitution of the Westport Borough Proceedings Validation Bill was considered in Committee, and reported without amendments. The Electric Telegraph Act Amendment Bill was further considered in Committee, and reported with amendments. On resuming, the first of these measures was read a third time, and passed. The standing orders were suspended for the recommittal of the Electric Telegraph Act Amendment Bill, which was further considered, and reported with amendments. On resuming, the Bill was read a third time, passed, and transmitted to the House of Representatives for their concurrence with the amendments. REGULATION OF MINES BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN, in moving the second reading of this Bill, observed that some years ago a measure had been introduced for the regulation of coal mines. Since then it had been found desirable to frame a more comprehensive measure, and the present Bill was the result. He thought some such provisions as the Bill contained were necessary. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE agreed that legislation was necessary, but to make the measure effective, it should he withdrawn from the control of Provincial authority. He was of opinion that one or two inspectors would be sufficient for the whole Colony, v The Hon. Mr. BONAR said that the provision objected to by the Hon. Mr, Waterhouse, was the one that would induce him to vote for the Bill. In goldmining, especially, it was wise not to put too many restrictions on the miners, and therefore he considered it was prudent to make the provision that the Act should not take effect in any Province until application had been made to that effect by the Provincial Council. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN briefly replied; but his observations were inaudible in the gallery. The motion was carried, and the Bill read a second time. MUNICIPAL RESERVES BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN, in moving the second reading of this measure, observed that the chief object of tbe Bill was to define wbat were works of “public utility.” The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE said the hon. gentleman had stated the object of the Bill; but be felt sure he was ignorant of the effect of the Bill,- which would be to absorb every acre of Crown land in the Colony for endowments for Municipalities and Road Boards. He was afraid thatthe reservescontemi.lated by the Bill would have the effect of locking up the land instead of settling population on it. He moved that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. The Hon. Mr. HOLMES rose to second the amendment. He thought the Bill capable of improvement. In Canterbury -200,000 acres had been set apart for reserves. The effect of the Bill would be to allow the Provinces to lock up their lands in reserves. He would suggest that the measure should be postponed. The Hon. Mr. BONAR thought the Bill a good one, and the objection of the hon. gentlemen who had opposed the measure might be arranged in Committee. The Hon. Capt. FRASER agreed with the Hon. Mr. Bonar. The principle of the measure was good, and had been acted on in all large cities such as London and York. The Hon. Mr. PATERSON suggested that the Bill should a second time, and amended iu Committee. The Hon. Mr. BUCKLEY said if the Bill were passed it would give the Provinces power to lock up all the land in reserves, of which they would take advantage. In Canterbury during the last session, 200,000 acres had been so set apart without the powers of that measure, and what would they do if it were passed. The effect of the measure would he that' the Road Boards and Municipalities would bring pressure to bear on the Provincial Councils to lock up their lands in reserves. The Hon, Mr. MANTELL supported the amendment. The Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL suggested the postponement of the measure. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN replied, but his remarks were scarcely audible. He was understood to say there might be a locking up of the land but there could be no alienation. Crown grants for those reserves could not be obtained without legislation. He hoped the Council would pass the second reading, and in Committee the measure could be amended to meet the views of the Council, The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE then, by leave, withdrew his amendment, and the motion was carried and the Bill read a second time. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS GASWORKS BILL. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN, in moving the second reading of this Bill, observed that gas and water were two important elements of health and comfort in municipalities. Corporations had by recent, legislation been empowered to construct or purchase waterworks. The object of that Bill was to empower the corporations to purchase or construct gasworks. It was desirable that both should be under one body—the corporations. The hon. gentleman then explained the provisions of the Bill. The Hon. Hr, WATERHOUSE felt surprised that the hon. mover had not said a single word as to the peculiar provision in the 37th clause, whereby the corporations were empowered to levy a rate not exceeding a shilling in the pound. He should in Committee move that that clause he struck out. The. motion was then carried, and the Bill read a second time. JURIES ACT AMENDMENT BILL, The Hon. Mr. MILLER, in moving the second reading of the Bill, stated that its object

was to exempt members of Fire Brigades from serving on juries. Firemen’s' duties ' were onerous, and after long service at fires they were physicallyunfit to serve as jurors. The Hon. Mr. HOLMES had great pleasure in seconding the motion of his hon. friend, as he thought members of Fire Brigades merited such exemption. Their duties were onerous, and they received no pay. The Hon. Captain FRASER gave the Bill his hearty support. These men were no shams. They risked their lives to protect property. They received no pay, no land orders, not even uniforms or helmets ; and he thought these brave men deserved such a compliment. The Hon. Mr. BONAR quite concurred in the remarks of the Hon. Captain Fraser, and thought that one good effect of the Bill might be tbe increasing tbe number of firemen. The Hon. Mr. PATERSON gave his hearty support to the measure. The Hon. Colonel BRETT owed a debt of gratitude to firemen of Christchurch, who vvere second to none in the Colony, He should like to see the volunteers take a leaf out of their hook. The Hon. Mr. BONAR rose to order. The question before the Council was the Juries Act and not the Volunteers. The Hon. Mr. HART expressed the great satisfaction he felt in supporting the Bill. The motion was carried, and the Bill read a second time. MARLBOROUGH WASTE LANDS BILL. The Hon. Captain BAILLIE moved the Hecond reading of this Bill, and stated that it was an amendment on the Bill by which laud at the present time was disposed of in the Province of Marlborough. Under the provisions of the present measure a large quantity of forest land would be utilised. The object of the Bill was to put a safety valve on the proceedings of the Superintendent by controlling his powers. The Hon. Captain FRASER thought the best thing to do with the Bill was to give it a “ happy dispatch.” Each succeeding clause was worse than the one immediately preceding it. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved the adjournment of the debate until Friday, and this motion having been carried, The Council adjourned at five o’clock until the usual hour next day. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, August 6. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. NATIVE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE. Mr. TAIAROA moved, —“ That the number of the Native Affairs Committee be extended to eighteen, and that the name of Mr. Sheehan be added to the Committee.” Agreed to. RESERVE AT PORT CHALMERS. Mr. TAIAROA moved, —“ That it is desirable that the reserve at Port Chalmers, section No. 402, should he restored to the Maoris, for whom it was originally made.” Mr. McLEAN recommended the House not to agree to the motion, as the matter was now under inquiry by the Government. He suggested that the best means of settling it would be to refer the matter to arbitration, and the Government intended to adopt that course. The reserve in question had been already granted to the Presbyterian Church of Otago. Mr. MAO ANDREW sketched the history of the matter. The reserves had been given to the Presbyterian Church of Otago many years before the Natives knew anything about it. Mr. REYNOLDS said the land was set aside in 1853 for another purpose, and although so marked off for a particular purpose, Mr. Mantell, who was Crown Lands Commissioner in Otago at the time, recommended it should be granted to the Natives, and the Governor, in ignorance of how the section stood, agreed with the recommendation, and the land was consequently reserved for the Natives. Afterwards, the Native Minister got the section valued by a respectable firm, who valued it at £6O. That amount was offered to the Natives, who refused to accept it. Mr. TAIAROA replied that he had not intended to have brought the matter before the House, only that the Judge of the Native Land Court wished the case to come on this year, but because of the Native Reserves Act it could not come before the Native Land Court. Mr. Watt only offered the Natives £4O. He agreed to the proposal, and hoped the Government would carry it out as soon as possible, and not delay it as other matters had been. The motion was then withdrawn. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. Mr. VOGEL ; With the permission of the House, I wish to make a few remarks in reference to a matter which has been engaging very general attention. After what occurred the other evening, no doubt hon. members will be anxious to know what course the Government propose to adopt in reference to a question that was very much canvassed yesterday, viz., the question of the abolition of the Provinces in the North Island. At an early period of the session—when the Financial Statement was made—l did not disguise that it was the desire of the Government to assist the Provinces in this island to continue to discharge their functions, and proposed that fresh assistance in some cases should be given, and in others to do so by loan. The question is very materially changed by the debate which took place upon the State Forests Bill. It then appeared that some of the Provinces, and notably the Province in ■which we now are, look upon the measure to establish State forests for the Colony as of a particularly aggressive nature, directed against Provincial institutions generally and this Province in particular. One speech that was made in the course of _ the debate was of a nature necessarily to direct the attention of the Government to the whole subject of Provincialism, in this island'especially, and the result was the ascertaining of figures which showed beyond an extent I at least ever dreamt of, and I believe hon. members generally ever supposed, the enormous proportion of revenue and means expended in this island that was indirectly expended or supplied by the machinery of the Colony and Assembly. What the impression created in hon. members’ minds generally by those figures is I cannot say ; but on my mind the impression was a very strong one. . Since the speech I made the evening before last, the Government have received assurances from all sides, which leave no doubt in the minds of Ministers that the majority of members of this House are anxious to see the Provinces in this island abolished. There are some conditions which I have referred to—notably the seat of Government and the compact of 1856—that should be recognised by Act. There can bo no doubt that a large majority of the members of this. House are prepared to assent to such a proposition, and are, I believe,. Sir, desirous of seeing effect given to it with as little delay as possible. Therefore, it would he idle to deny that the Government have taken into consideration , whether or not it would he opportune to bring forward proposals to that effect during the present session. After what I said the other night there can be no doubt in any hon. member’s mind as to what my view of the matter is. The question is whether or not any action should be taken this session ; and. Sir, the Government have come to the conclusion not to ask for effect to bo given to this proposal during the present session. (Hear.) I will tell hon. members what led the Government to come to this conclusion. First, there is this consideration : that there has been a sort of understanding, partly expressed, and partly implied, that the session should not ho unnecessarily prolonged, and that beyond a certain amount of business indicated by the papers, or by the Governor's speech with which the Assembly wa« opened, there would not bo any important legislation proposed. Although, of course, there is freedom of action in this matter, and the Government have the perfect right to come down and ask for consideration to bo given to all matters the urgency of which has shown itself during the session, it would bo always well to adhere

if possible to any expressed or implied understanding of the kind.’ But, Sir) the reason thatweighed most with the Government in coming to that decision which I have intimated is this ; that although there is a large majority in this. House holding the opinions I have here described—although I believe throughout this Island, and throughout the North and Middle Islands, the opinion of the people of the Colony would ratify such' action —that it would be an exceedingly popular thing ; yet there is a feeling throughout the country on the part of those who approve of such 'legislation that it would be dangerous action now to in large legislation of this kind in a hurried maimer, and without due notice. Even those who approve of the proposal might very justly say, “ after a surprise of this kind, may we not have a surprise which we could not welcome.’ They might justly say whilst Parliament is sitting there must be a great.sense of insecurity of large organic measures being passed ■without ordinary notice being given which would enable the people by constitutional means to express their opinions by petition. Therefore, it is quite possible that those who would most approve of the measure, might not regret its being carried into effect hurriedly, because they dreaded the precedent that would he established. It would be surprise legislation, almost in the shape of a cotip d’etat. These are the reasons that had induced the Government to come down with the statement which I am now making—that it was not their intention to propose to come down to the House, and initiate legislation upon this subject this session. Of course I have no right to prevent the House expressing, any opinion on the subject, and I do not wish to assert a right. Many members might think the necessity of the country justified extreme action, but for our own parts we think such a measure would be more acceptable to the country if it came from the country and during the time Parliament was not sitting, thereby giving an opportunity for having the measure not only established iu the minds of members, but also in the minds of those who elect the representatives. It seems to us better not to deal with the matter this session. I am, however, not prepared to say that there may not be brought down resolutions on the subject. I am not prepared to say that we shall do so, or that we shall not. That is a point we have not come to a decision upon. I have taken the earliest opportunity of giving such information upon the subject as I am able to do, recognising how very much hon. members’ attention has been directed to the matter. webb’s penalties. Mr. VOGEL, in laying on the table the letter of Mr. Thomas Russell, in reference to recovering penalties from Mr. Webb for nonperformance of his mail contract, observed that the letter would explain the opinion which Mr. Russell gave the Government on the subject. Without endorsing the view Mr. Russell took, he (Mr. Vogel) had to state that the Government had come to the conclusion that they would not risk the expense of taking legal proceedings against Mr. Webb for the recovery of the penalties. EMPLOYMENT OF FEMALES. Mr. ROLLESTON, on moving the second reading of the Employment of Females Act Amendment Bill, observed that in Christchurch the hours in the existing Act, from 9 a.ra. to 6 p.m., were found to be inconvenient, besides in the winter time the young women had to work for a couple of hours by gaslight, which was very injurious to their eyes. The Bill was introduced to give effect to the prayer of the petition he had presented from girls -employed in the Christchurch factories, but he did not intend to press it at present beyond the second reading, because he understood from the member for Wakaia that the Bill would not altogether suit Dunedin, and he was desirous of seeing if an understanding could not be arrived at. Mr. T. L. SHEPHERD referred to the experience of Victoria, and said the effect of this legislation would be to throw many persons out of employment, and discourage the establishment of factories. Mr. BRADSHAW was understood to say that the proposed change of hours from 9 to 8 a.m., and from 6 to 5 p.m., would not meet the requirements of the factories in Dunedin. He agreed with the suggestion of the hon. member for Avon, that power should be given to Provincial Councils to alter the hours named in the Bill, as it might be thought desirable. Mr. VOGEL did not object to the second reading of the Bill ; but the Bill in its present shape, was undesirable to pass. The object of it was to substitute the earlier hour of eight in the morning at which women might be allowed to commence, and five at which to finish work, instead of nine and six as at present. He pointed out that it might be very inconvenient to some establishments to commence business at eight. He suggested the hours should be named from eight to six, with a provision that only eight hours should be entailed. Mr. ROLLESTON intimated that if the Premier’s proposed amendment were carried, he would have to abandon the Bill. The second reading was agreed to. REPORT. The report of the Goldfields Committee on the Goldfields Act Amendment No. 2, was brought up as follows : The Goldfields Committee to whom was referred the Bill intituled the Goldfields Act, 18G0, Amendment Hill No. 2, have the honor to report that they have examined the Bill, and beg to recommend that it do pass without amendment. The Committee have also unanimously passed the following resolution :—■ 11 That with reference to clause 2 of the Goldfields Amendment Act, 1872, this Committee is of opinion that it is urgently necessary that legislation should take place witlx the view of disposing of the difficulty at present existent with regard to the using of the waters and streams for mining operations; and is further of opinion that the clause as printed leaving a discretionary power to the Governor, will meet the case; and recognising the necessity of immediately dealing with the matter, the Committee recommend that the provision proposed by the Bill be made law during the present session of Parliament." BILLS INTRODUCED. The following Bills were introduced by message from His Excellency:—The Act to Amend Public Revenues Act, and Act to Authorise Raising Money for Immigration and Construction of Public Works. ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH BILL. The amendments on the above Bill proposed by the Legislative Council were on Mr. Vogel’s motion agreed to. SECOND READINGS. Employment of Females Act Amendment Bill, Wanganui Mayors Bill, Hawke’s Bay Waste Lands Bill, Grass and Forest Fire Prevention Bill, Protection to Animals Act 1873 Amendment Bill, Westland Waste Lands Act Amend-, ment Bill. BILLS PASSED, The following Bills were passed : —Taranaki Smelting Works Bill, Napier Harbor Board Endowment Bill, New Plymouth Harbor Board Endowment Bill, Hokitika Mayor Election Bill, Wellington Volunteer Land Scrip Act Extension Bill, Cromwell Waterworks Loan Bill, Bankruptcy Act Amendment Bill. The House at 8.20 p.m. adjourned till the usual hour to-morrow.