HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 1696, 31 August 1904, Page 69

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

TUESDAY, AUGUST 23. The House met at 2.30 p.m. NEW BILLS. The following new bills were read a first time: —State Coalmines Act Amendment (Hon J. McGowan), Weights and Measures Amendment (Hon Sir J. G. Ward). STUD BILL. The Hon T. Y. DUNCAN moved, “That a Select Committee be appointed, consisting of Mr Bollard, Mr Buddo, Mr Hogg, Mr Kidd, Mr Lawry, Mr Lethbride Mr Massey, Mr T. Mackenzie, Mr McLachlan, Mr Rhodes, Mr Rutherford, Mr Symes, Hon Sir W. J. Steward,’ and the mover, to whom shall be referred the Stud Bill; the committee to have power to call for persons and papers, and to report within ten days; three to be a quorum.” After debate the motion was agreed to. EVIDENCE BILL. The Evidence Bill, which has already passed the Council, was committed. It is mainly a consolidating measure. Considerable adverse discussion took place on clause 25, providing that affidavits or declarations made before the proper authority in any part of the British dominions shall be received in any Court in New Zealand Ultimately the clause was struck out. Mr GUINNESS moved a new clause t>o enable State documents to be produced that may be material as evidence in a case, Leaving it to the Judge or to say whether the docu-

ment is privileged. EC© pointed out that at present it was left for the Minister to say. what document was confidential. and in that way justice might be retarded or frustrated. The Hon J. McGOWAN asked the House not to accept the clause. The present bill was not the opportunity to introduce such a clause. Mr HERDMAN said the Government was entering largely upon private enterprise, and in the interests of possible litigants tho proposed clause was necessary. Sir JOSEPH WARD hoped the House would not agree to the proposal, which, if carried, would involve a serious danger to the State, for confidential documents might be produced which it was not advisable to produce. The discussion was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. The House resumed at. 7.30. After considerable discussion, Mr Guinness’s proposed new clause was rejected by 29 votes to 23. The bill was reported with amendments. LAW AMENDMENT. The Law Amendment Act, 1904, which has already passed the Legislative Council, was committed. At clause 5, fixing the limitation of time within which wills may be impeached, a proviso was added that the clause should not come into operation until twelve months after the passing of tho act. Mr HERE moved a further addition “that this proviso shall not apply to any will i made by Maoris.” He thought every precaution was required to prevent the alienation of native lands by will. Tho Hen J. McGOWAN said tho arguments of Mr Hoke went in the direction of proving that Maoris should not be allowed to make wills at all. There ought to be a time when wills should be looked upon a; final. (Mr HMKJI withdrew his amendment, intimating that he would take a future opportunity of effecting the object desired. At clause 7, dealing with unintentional encroachment of buildings on adjoining sections, Mr Herdman and Mr Massey held that the onus of proof that such encroachment was intentional or arose from negligence should ho upon the defendant:, not upon the plaintiff. This was agreed to. At clause 10, empowering trustees to spend and borrow money for the improvement of a property, Mr Rhodes moved that -the amount to be borrowed should be limited to one-third the value of the property. This Mr McGowan refused to accept, and his motion that the limit be one half the value of the property was carried by 39 votes! to 23. Mr FOWLDS moved a new clause regarding the operation of the doctrine of part performance. Mr FISHER : Well, sir, this is a new bill. The Hon J. McGOWAN took the same view. Ho objected to making the measure a contract bill. Tiie clause was rejected by 39 votes to 22. Tho bill was reported as amended. GAMING AND LOTTERIES. Tho Gaming and Lotteries Act Amendment Bill was committed. Air HURRIES objected to clause 2, which proposed to render illegal lotteries and schemes which were perfectly legal in tho countries where they were conducted. _ The Hon J. McGOWAN said tho Parliament of New Zealand had made it illegal to hold lotteries, and therefore, unless tho State took further action, the law already passed would bo rendered inoperative by reason of tho sale of tickets by agents in New Zealand. It was r. case of perfecting tho law or taking it out altogether. Mr ALISON moved to amend clause 3, subsection 1, in the following direction :—“ Any person other than a Chinaman found on premises occupied by any Chinaman, and taking part in the Chinese game of pak-ah-pu or fantan, or any similar Chinese game, shall be considered to have committed an offence, and shall he liable to a penalty not exceeding £10.” Mi' McGOWAN asked the House to stick to the clauses as drafted in the bill. Subsection 1 of clause 3, “The Chinese game known as pak-ah-pu and any similar game are hereby declared to be lotteries within the meaning of the principal act,” was struck out, on the voices. The Minister immediately moved to report progress, before Mr Alison’s proposed clause was put. The motion to report progress was carried by 46 votes to 13. ADMINISTRATION ACT AMENDMENT. The Administration Act Amendment Bill was committed. Clause 2, giving the Supreme Court exclusive jurisdiction in granting probates and letters of administration, was struck out, and a new clause substituted, on the motion of Air A. L. D. Fraser, giving District Court Judge.., the same power as a Judge of tiie Supreme Court in the granting oi ( rebates and letters of administration. Mr McGOWAN moved a new ckiu ;e, providing for the sure custody in seme

suitable place in Wellington of certified copies of all wills hereafter granted, and making provision for the inspection by the public of all such wills.—Agreed to. The bill was reported with amendments. The House rose at 12.25 a.m. WEU .TEBDAY, AUGUST 24. The H wtuis met at 2.30 p.m. NEfW BILLS. The following news buis were read a” first time:—Public Morgues (Hon Sir W. J. Steward), Nelson Town SchoolSite Exchange (Mr Graham), Petroleum Mining (Hon J. McGowan), Public Health Act Amendment, Water Supply Act Amendment, Maori Antiquities Act? Amendment, Rating Act Amendment, Local Bodies’ Leases (Hon Sir J. G, Ward). QUESTIONS. The remainder of the afternoon was occupied in a discussion on replies to members’ questions. The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m, FIRST READINGS. The Indictable Offences Summary; Jurisdiction and School Attendance Bills? were received from the Legislative Council and read a first time. MARRIAGE RESTRICTIONS, Mr FIELD moved tho second reading of the Marriage Restriction B% moval Bill (No. 2), the object of which, is to provide that a man may marry his mother’s brother’s wife, and a weman may marry her mother’s sister's husband. The mover pointed out that? the bill did not propose to allow mar* riages between persons between whom there was blood relationship. Mr HERE said the law of the na*» tives in regard to matters of this kind might with advantage be adopted by the Europeans. A Maori woman dying oxten expressed the wish that her hua* band should marry her elder or youngea* sister. The second reading was lost by 35 votes to 21. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL REFORM!, The Legislative Council Reform Bill (Sir W. J. Steward) was committed. At clause 3, defining the number of members to be elected, Mr Taylor moved the deletion of all words except “no further appointments to the Council shall be made by the Governor.'’ Mr LEWIS wanted to know whether the Government or the mover regarded the amendment as a motion of want of confidence in the Ministry. Sir JOSEPH WARD: The honourable member, assuming that he carries his amendment, vauts io have some system of election from outside this House. Mr TAYLOR: No, I want a single Chamber. Sir JOSEPH WARD: “Oh,well, that’s a different thing altogether. If tho honourable member carries his amendment, he hopes to be able to abolish the bi-cameral system. I for ono believe in tho bi-cameral system —(hear, hear) —and I believe the country itself would be very strongly opposed to a proposition of that kind.” The Legislative Council had been subjected to a great deal of criticism which, he believed, it had not deserved. For the past ten years, since the great sweep of progressive reform came over the country, they could scarcely point to one piece of legislation that the members had burked. Mr FOWLDS: What about the referendum ? Sir JOSEPH WARD: There may he exceptions, but I mean as a whole. The other branch of the Legislature has been so progressive in particular matters of public opinion that they have occasioned considerable displeasure from an entirely different standpoint from the members of the Opposition proper. Sir Joseph went on to say that the result of popular election of the Upper House would he to place there class representatives, principally men of means and prominence. He favoured tho principle of the bill. Mr MASSEY wanted to get a direct vote on the question as to whether the Council should be elected. He moved a prior amendment, under which the clause read as follows: —“ From and after the passing of this act the Council shall be elected as hereinafter provided.” After debate Mr Massey’s amendment was lost by 35 votes to 27. Following is the division list:-—For the amendment (27) —Alison. J. Allen, Bollard, Buchanan, Davey, Duthie, W. Fraser,’ Guinness, Harding, Haray, Hawkins, Herdman, Hurries, Kukbrido, Lang, Lewis, Hander, Massey,. T. Mackenzie, Reid, Rhodes, Russell, Rutherford, Synies, J. C. Thomson, J W. Thomson, Vile. 'Against (35;— F. G. Allen, Bedford, Bonnet, Buddo. ( arroll, Duncan, Ell, Field, Fisher, Flat man. Fowlds, A. L. D. Fracer, Graham. Hall, Hall-Jones, Han an, Hogg, Houston, Jennings, Kidd. Laureason, Lawry, McGowan, McNab, Mills, Parata, Remington, Gkley. Steward, Taylor, Ward, Wilford, Willis, Wit tv. Wood. Mr M/-SSEY asked for a ruling on the p, Minn. The House had decided rise Council should not be elected.

Ho wanted to know, therefore, whether they could go on with the bill. Sir W. STEWARD maintained that the machinery of the bill was not affected, as the House had simply refused to put in certain words as unnecessary. The‘Chairman of Committees ruled that the bill could not be stopped at the present stage. Air TAYLOR, speaking to his amendment, said lie desired the House- to express an opinion as to whether any further appointments should be made. The country, lie thought, would approve the action of the committee if it decided that no more appointments should be made to the Upper Chamber, leaving that Chamber to be dealt with 09 Parliament thought fit. The amendment was lost by 49 votes to 13. At 11.55 p.m. Mr Davey moved to report progress. This was carried by 86 votes to 28. BARBOURS ACT AMENDMENT. The Harbours Act Amendment Bill (Mr Millar), to giro Harbour Boards compensation for any land taken under tho Harbours Act, 1878, in the manner provided by the Public Works Act, 1894, Was committed. Tb was urged by members that Harbour Boards should not bo deprived of the benefits accruing from lands reclaimed by them. The Hon W. HALL-JUNES opposed the bill. Ho moved to exempt lands taken for roads or railways from the provisions of the bill. This amendment was aooepted by Mr Millar. Tho bill was reported with this amendment. Tim House rose at 12.50 a.m. THURSDAY, AUGUST 25. The House met at 2.30 p.m, NEW BILLS. The following bills wero read a first time Maori Forests Bill (Hon J. Carroll), Local Bodies’ Loans Act Amendment (Hon J. Carroll), Plumbers' Registration (Hon Sir J. G. Ward). THE LAND QUESTION. Mr SEDDON called hon members’ attention to tlie notice of motion on the order paper in his name in regard to inquiry to be made in respect to the land tenure question. Ho did not intend to proceed with the motion that day, but to go on with Imprest Supply, and. bo make tine motion on the land question the first order of the day for Tuesday. The Treasury had informed him that it was advisable to get tho Imprest Supply Bill through that day. The leader of the Opposition some time ago asked him whether he would he prepared to go on with tho discussion of some proposals Mr Massey desired to mako respecting tho land tenure of tho colony. Ho could not then see his way to fix a day specially for him, but this opportunity would bo afforded him on Tuesday next on his (Mr Seddon’s) motion. Then the House would bo able bo come to a conclusion on the land question, and the matter could bo debated with freedom, mid. he hoped, with, more advantage than would be given if a debate took place on the question to go into Supply. Mr MASSEY said lie had intended moving ail amendment on the land question on going into Committee of Supply, but as tho Premier had given him this assurance, he would refrain from doing so until the Premier’s motion came up on Tuesday, thereby giving the House an opportunity of disputing the whole question without mixing up other matters with it. IMPREST SUPPLY. Tho Imprest Supply mil (No. 3) was brought down by Governor’s message. It provides First Schedule—-Consoli-dated Fund £300,000, Public Works Fund £150,000, Government Loans to Local Bodies Account £2OOO, Land forSettlements £IOOO, State Forests £SOOO, State Coal Mines £BSOO, Scenery Preservation £IOOO, Paeroa-Wailii Railway £12,000, HuH Railway and Road Improvement i'5000: total, £484,500. Second Schedule—Government Insurance Account £7500, Government Accident Insurance Account £IOOO, State Fire Insurance £SOO, Pub-

lie Trustee’s Account £IOOO, Government Advances to Settlers Office £45,350: total, £55,350. Mr J. ALLEN inquired of the Colonial Treasurer what was required of the colony in respect to having the recent million and a quarter loan quoted by the London Stock Exchange ? Mr BERRIES complained of the public works requirements being starved. Last quarter only £166,000 was spent on public works, against £264.000, £244,000, and £417,000 respectively for corresponding quarters in previous years. Air S ED DON said that he wanted the House to clearly understand this: The large expenditure on public works in this country must come down to the limit which Parliament had fixed. The Government was not going to borrow more than three-quarters of a million this year, and if he oould possibly have reduced tlie amount lie would have done so, because ho believed that was essential for the safety of the finances of the colony and its credit. There were times when one, even at the risk of being unpopular, must do his duty to the colony, and lie asked, was it reasonable, in the interests of the country, to try and force on a large public works expenditure considering the present .state of the money market? Such a policy would be suicidal. So long as he was Colonial Treasurer ho was not going on with a large public works expenditure beyond the limit fixed in tho Financial Statement, and if members wero not satisfied with that, in view of existing conditions, then they must gab someone else. During the last few months tho colony had had its difficulties, bub the country was prosperous. Our finances were sound, but, in view of the difficulties existing outside, to go on with a lavish expenditure would lead to disaster, and he would he no party to it. There would be no starving of the backblocks settler. Air MASSEY: What's happening now ? Air SEDDON: There's a very fair expenditure provided for roads and bridges. For a colony with 800,000 inhabitants to borrow a million each year was quite as much as this country could stand. An lion member: Have you just discovered it? Air SEDDON: I haven’t just discovered it. The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. The House resumed at 7.30. Air J. ALLEN pointed out that apparently the Consolidated Fund was strong enough to find £143,000 of cash to assist in tho redemption of debentures coming due, but lie asked members to consider whether, in a time like this, it was strong finance to limit to a wry largo extent the available cash balance of the Consolidated Fund. Tho debate was continued by Stir Joseph Ward, Messrs Berries, Bnthie, Mills and Witherford. Air SEDDON, replying to criticism of tho finances, said he had been asked about the sum of £476,000 that used to be shown separately as Imperial guarantee debentures. Treasury bills had been issued against them on the one side, and the amount of £470,000 appeared on the other. It was simply a surplusage, and they had ceased to note it. The member for Bruoa had levelled a charge of unsafe finanoo against the proceeding. Where was the danger in investing the guarantee debentures in the Consolidated Fund or the Land for Settlement Fund? There was last year a surplus of £OOO,OOO, not a shilling of which had yet been transferred to the Public Works Fund. The first transfer appeared in the Supply Bill under discussion. Ho therefore stood with nearly £700,000 in hand in the Consolidated Fund. If he took £303,000 of that amount and invested it in the Land for Settlement Fund he would realise that amount of Imperial guarantee debentures. With £700,000 in the Consolidated Fund, it would not trouble him to pay half of it into tlio Land for Settlement Fund, and liberate the Imperial guarantee debentures. The Supply Bill passed through all stages. HOKITIKA HARBOUR BOARD. The Hokitika Harbour Board Empowering Bill (Mr Seddon) was commifcted. Objection was raised by Alessrs Ell

and Laurenson to the Board being empowered to sell £39,000 worth of land for a debt of £12.000. They objected to any public endowments being sold. At 12.30 a.m. Air Harding moved.to report progress.—Lost by 4-2 votes to 5. At clause 3, Air Ell moved an amendment to the effect that only the timber on the reserves lie sold, and not tho land itself.—Lost by 35 votes to 6. Tho bill was reported with minor amendments moved by the member in charge. STRATFORD HOSPITAL. Tho Stratford Hospital District Bill (All* -Byrnes) was committed. No progress was made with the bill, and the Hou.se rose at 12.55 a.m. FRIDAY, AUGUST 2G. The House met at 2.30 p.m. COUNTIES ACT. By 37 votes to 34 the House refused to agree to the report of the conference with managers of the Legislative Council regarding the Counties Act Amendment Bill, and it was decided to ask lor a second conference. THE ESTIMATES. The House went into Committee of Supply for further consideration of the Estimates. Education Department, £590,158. Aiembers urged that the salaries of teachers should be increased. It was pointed out that whilst money was being spent on secondary education, and manual and technical education, the education of children in the back blocks was being neglected, and some were growing up in entire ignorance. The house allowance in tho country was also inadequate, and the uncertainty of promotion was causing competent male teachers to leave the profession. Air HANAN moved that the item £457,057, for public schools, be reduced by £l, as an indication to the Government that there should bo an increase in teachers’ salaries. Mr SEDDON said the representations of members in regard to an increase of teachers’ salaries were much appreciated, but there was an inconsistency in members' remarks, in the fact that they wero told one day the Government was unduly increasing the expenditure, and the next day tho Government was told to increase it. Ha was informed by tho Secretary of Education that to touch tho salaries at all they would have to increase them all round. The greatest hardship was now suffered by sole teachers in schools with an average attendance of from fifteen to thirty, and especially male teachers in schools of from twenty to thirty pupils. If tho prosperity of the colony continued, the Government would favourably view the bringing into operation of the second schedule of the Teachers’ Salaries Act, but he did not think any extension of tho schedules and scales of salaries would remove tlio inequalities and injustice now suffered by teachers of smaller schools. That being so, he hesitated to bring the schedule into law. He proposed to bring down a bill giving more justice to tho teachers of the schools mentioned. The scale of payment wanted readjusting, and it would be better for our system of education if the male teachers wero not allowed to drift away from the profession as they were doing at tho present time. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. m Committee of Supply on Die Estimates. Tho debate on Air Hanan’s motion ■was continued, the motion to reduce the vote being eventually lost on the voices, and the vote for public schools was then passed. Tho vote for native schools was passed unaltered. Industrial Schools, £22,311; Homes for Defectives, £4.20; School for Deaf Mutes, £4430; School for Blind, £609; technical instruction, £16,215; miscellaneous services, £3245; school buildings, furniture, and sites, £33,615. — Passed unaltered after debate on various details of administration. Marine Department, £56,426. Passed unaltered. Printing and Stationery Department, £40,743. Passed unaltered.

At 12.45 a-m., Air Alassey moved to* report progress- Lost by 26 votes to 12. After this a stonewall was set up by the Opposition on the Stamps and Deeds Department vote, £29,806. At 1.30 a.m., with no possibility of tho stonewall coming to an end, a compromise was effected on the suggestion of Sir Joseph Ward. The vote foFThe Lands and Deeds Registry Department, £22.573, was agreed to, and progress was thc-n reported on the vote for the Stamps Department. The House rose at 1.35 a.m. till 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday.