PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 1536, 7 August 1901, Page 43

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

TUESDAY, JULY 30.

The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 *.m. * -

CYANIDE PROCESS BILL.

The Hon R. REEVES brought up the recommendation of the Goldfields and Mines Committee of the Council upon th e Cyanide Process Bill, to the effect that the Bill should proceed as printed.

FRANCE AND THE NEW HEBRIDES.

The Hon W. C. SMITH gave notice that he would ask the Minister of Education whether the Government would take steps by resolution of Parliament to petition the Imperial Government to prevent the French from further aggression on the New Hebrides. THE REFERENDUM. .

The adjourned debate on the Referendum Bill was resumed by The Hon J. TWOMEY, who said it was always a very serious matter to tamper with our constitution. He read the Council material portions of Duploy’s “History of the Referendum in Switzerland.” From these extracts the speaker built up a theory that the Bill was a Conservative measure. In New Zealand w e had the freest constitution on earth, and it wfls inadvisable to experiment with it. He had no objection to refer to the people abstract questions such as Bible-reading in schools, but he objected to the wider scope of the Bill before them. It contained a slur on the [Legislative Council in clause 16. The Hon T. KELLY said the referendum in Switzerland was only used by th e cantons, not by the Federal Government. Similarly in the United States, it was only the States individually which used the referendum. He was against th e Bill befora the Council. The Hon C. LOUISSON said that 90 per cent, of the people took no interest in the Referendum Bill, which merely aimed to prevent the rejection of a Bill by the Council. Such a Bill, if passed into law, would abrogate the duties of Parliament. It was never intended that the Council should b e only a copying machine. The Hon A. LEE SMITH said the legislative machinery of the-colony , if properly guided, had sufficient elasticity and strength to pass any legislation in touch with public opinion. The Bill was also opposed by Messrs Scotland, Reeves, Jennings and Rigg. The Hon F. ARKWRIGHT moved an amendment that the Bill be read a sec 1 ond time this day six months.

On the motion of the Hon J. E. Jenkinson, the debate was adjourned till next day. The Council rose at 4.30 p.m. WEDNESDAY, JULY 31. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. -PETITIONS. The Hons. A. L. Smith and D. Pinkerton presented a number of petitions from various parts of the coioiy, mainly from officers employed in banks, aga’nst the Shops and Offices Bill. RHODES TRUST. The Private Bills Committee. reported favourably upon the Rhodes 1 rust Bill, and recommended that it be allowed to proceed without alteration. ±’ LIFE INSURANCE OFFICE. In answer to questions put by the Hon. S, Shrimski, The Hon. W. C replied it was true that tne Government Life Insurance Office was carrying on accident business to a certain extent; that the amount to be paid by the Accident Department for expenses to the Life Department woniu be apportioned later _onj and that what the questioner referred to as “meagre profits ’ by no means correctly Jescribid the doings of the office. Jn com;arisen to th© exceptionally low premiums eiiurged by the Government office for life insurance, the benefits given to insurers were gi eater than those of any other office doing business in the colony. “here was only one Australian office (the A.M.P. office'} which was giving better returns, and that ‘ office had been much longer ert ablished. He might add that the two branches would be kept quite distinct. If any loss occurred in the new undertaking, the Consolidated Fund would be - held liable—not the Department. ' A 4 PRIVATE GRIEVANCE.

The Hon. H. TAIALiOA aspect the Minister of Education when the Government intended to bring in a Poll to give effect to the recommendation of the Native Affairs Committee in 1899 on the petition of H. H. Taiaroa? The Hon W. C. W ALKER replied that inasmuch as both the Supreme Court and the' Court of Appeal had held .tliat absolute? ownership of land in dispute did: not rest with H. K. Taiaroa, hut that the Public Trustee should ter it for-the benefit of all concerned, it would bey misleading to the bon. g enl 1 eman i f he replied that there was any probability of the Government introducing legi si action to the end desired by the questioner. A COLONIAL TRAINING SHIP. The Hon. W. T, JENNINGS moved a

establish a training ship for boys in. the. colony. In doing so, the i on. gentleman spoke at length on th e advisableness of instituting training ships, and urged that for £3500 per annum a. large and suitable ship could be maintained for such purpose. _ The Hon. A. PITT seconded the mo tion. He was of ootaion that such provision was absolutely the best one that could be made for Die settlement of the troubles caused to the whole community by wayward lads. The Hon. W. C. WALKER, said he had inspected the Sobraon—the N.S.W. Government’s training ship—and had been favourably impressed by the conditions which there prevailed. The problem which he had been unable to give a satisfactory answer to whs : Why just the same results could not be obtained in institutions ashore lie was inclined to think that perhaps the dressing up of the training ship boys 1.1 uniform had a good moral effect. (Hear, hour.) But could not that be done on shore* wi»h the same effect? (No, no!) There was this further to be said in favour cf a training ship: It was a prison which did not appear to be one,and would have che result of preventing boys running away as they frequently did from industrial schools. The claim that to institute a training ship would add to our output cf sailors was fallacious if judged by the experience of the N.S.W. training ship, for a very small proportion of that vessel’s boys took to the sea. He was rather of opinion that more good would be done by taking such steps a s would lead our boys to take an interest in land culture and to go on the land. The question, cf course, would have to go before the Cabinet. His only wish was to see establishments for the bringing up of lads such as had been referred to brought to the >best state possible. The Hon. H. SCOTLAND had a recollection that a similar experiment to that desired by th© mover of Ihe motion was tried in Auckland years ago and had failed. The moor.ng *of a ship in a harbour tvas not the way to tram boys to be seamen. After other raembars bad spoken the motion was adjourned for further discussion until Thursday. BILLS. The Cyanide Extension Bill passed its final stages. The Land for Settlements Bill was read a second time, and then referred to the Waste Lands Committee l"he Referendum Bill was further discussed and eventually adjourned until Thursday. The Council adjourned at 4.35 p m. THURSDAY, AUGUST 1. Th e Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p-m. POLICE OFFENCES. The Hon C. C. BOWEN brought down the report of Joint Statutes Committee on the Police Offences Amendment Bill, which it was therein recommended should be allowed to proceed with amendments. The Bill was made | an order of the day for to-nnorrow. | TRAINING SHIPS. ! The adjourned debate on the motion of I the Hou W. T. Jennings affirming the ! desirableness of Government at once giv- | ing effect to th e unanimous recommen- | dation of both branches of the Legislature for the establishment of a training ship in the colony, was resumed. Th e Hon W. MONTGOMERY said he would like to see a training ship established for boys of good charaoter. He did not think boys of had character should be placed with boys of good antecedents on such a vessel.

The Hon R. REEVES was sorry to hear the previous speaker draw the line he had. The history of the past established float hoys from training ships in the majority of cases turned out to be reputable citizens. There was no doubt that the time had arrived for the Government to take steps to establish a training ship for th e colony. The Hon W. M. BOLT was favourably inclined to the institution of a training ship. To a great e xtent the training that would he there given would fit boys to enter the mercantile marine. The Hon 11. FELDWICK spoke favourably to th e motion. The very fact that the boys would be sailors would commend them to British people, who were always favourably inclined to the boys in blue. The Hon J. M. TWOMEY objected to th© establishment of such a distinction as that advocated by the Hon Mr Montgomery. The Hon H. GOURLEY was averse to the establishment of a floating prison such as the Sobraon at Sydney. The Minister of Education had been ©orrect when he so described it. A reformatory on land would be preferable. But for the establishment of a training ship pure and simple he was altogether favourable.

The MINISTER of EDUCATION quoted from the evidence given two years ago before a Parliamentary Committee in England to prove that boys from reformatories were not welcomed on hoard ships in the Royal Navy. He had no wish to divide the Council on the motion, bat h e would like the mover to delete the word “ unanimous.” so that th e Minister might not he committed to a course.

The Hon W. T. JENNINGS said he was quite willing to do that. The Hon T. KELLY objected to hoys being saddled for all time with disabilities because of an early lapse. The Hon D. PINKERTON agreed with

should b e one pure and simple. He was very sorcy to hear that there was a rule preventing lads from joining the navy who in early life had a black mark against their names. (A voice : r ‘ There is nothing to prevent them joining in after life.”)

I The Hon W. T. JENNINGS, in reply, ' referred to the fact that Captain Cook had run away to sea. Under present conditions in New Zealand, the captain ! would probably be placed in a reformai tory. It would, therefore, according to I the arguments of several speakers, be in. | eligible for such a boy to enter the navy. I Speaking of the Auckland vessel to which reference was made by the Hon H. Scotland on the previous day, the speaker said that only recently he had | spoken to one of the boys trained on the I vessel. That boy had assured him that | many .of the boys trained on that vessel i were new filling good positions at sea. , The institution of a training ship would j afford a spice of variety to the life of i lads which in a shore reformatoiy was I missing. It would tend to make them (thinking beings instead of brooding nialj contents. The speaker the n read a letter | from Captain W. H. Mason, of the SoI braon, offering to start and carry to a I successful issue the project which was set forth in the motion before thß Council, I and pledging his willinsrness to forfeit a thousand pounds if within a period of three years from the institution of the ship a committee constituted by Parliament was not satisfied that the scheme was a success. In conclusion, the mover I thanked the Council for the general favour with which his motion had been re. c*iv®d. The Hon C. C. Bowen having explained that Captain Cook did not run away from home, as bad beon alleged during the debate, the motion was agreed to on the voices. REFERENDUM BILL. Th© adjourned debate on the Referendum Bill was resumed, j Th© Hon W. C. WALKER, speaking i to the amendment of the Hon F. „Ark- | wright, that the Bill be read that day six months, said it was no use for members of the Council to affect to treat the rneasur© lightly. Pigmy politicians objected to the local option vote because they wer© afraid that two questions be- , ing put at e once (as by the Bill provided) j would tend to dwarf their own person- | ality. He would not for anything alter I the provision in the Bill which dealt ; with th© time for taking a referendum, j The referendum in a modified form ali ready existed in the colony. He wo old | like to see it extended. Nearly every I provision in the Act now before the j Council was contained in the Common--1 wealth Act of Australia. In Australia the Senate had more power than any (Upper House in the world had, and yet ; th© Act had provisions almost identical 1 with the provisions which in this ; Chamber were defined as attempts to neutralise the power of the Council. If I the Bill was thrown out on this occasion, he trusted that between the time ! at which it was rejected and next session those who were opposed to it would make a deeper study of the question. The Hon Mr Biolt moved the adj journment of the debate—Ayes , 18; no“s, 13. j Th e Council rose at 4.20 p-m. I RID AY, AUGUST 2. —.— S The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. | RHODES TRUST. | The Rhodes Trust Bill was read a third time on the voices, j DJttILL IN STATE SCHOOLS, j The State Schools Drill Bill was received from th e Lower House, and read a first time. The second reading was fixed for Wednesday, j FRENCH AGGRESSION, j The Hon W. C. SMITH asked the i Minister of Education, in accordance with notice given, if the Government would submit a resolution to Parliament urging the Imperial Government to take immediate steps to prevent further French aggressions in the New Hebrides, and also, if possible, to secure these islands for British possessions ? The lion member*, in asking the question, said that from information he had received from friends of his who had been, for ten years resident in the New Hebrides, he believed the French were getting more ! aggressive there every day. It was oustomary for French residents to buy j land from natives, and whenever a disi pute arose and th e matter was brought ! before a French man-o’-war commander the decision was always in favour of French ownership. The MINISTER of EDUCATION s aid the question raised by Mr Smith was an important .one. The Premier had, in conjunction with Sir Edward Barton, Premier of the Australian. Commonj wealth, taken steps to bring the 'matter before the Imperial Parliament. He 'hoped to see some gentleman who had special knowledge of _ the means i adopted to deal with native lands in : New Zealand appointed to tbe -oversight of such dealings in the New Hebrides.

THE WELLINGTON HEALTH OFFICER.

The Hon J. E. JENKINSON brought up as a matter of urgency the manner in which the Health Officer at Wellington was carrying out his duties. Judging from the accounts. that day published in the “Times” it was time that the officer should be informed that ho must study the interests of the com-

The Hon W. C. WALKER aaid he had to admit that he read the newspapers occasionally. He had read the report in that morning’s paper that the Wellington Health Officer had put the community to serious inconvenience by neglect to inspect a vessel at the earliest opportunity. He would mention the matter to the Minister for Health with a view to having it inquired into. At the same time, he would say that if th© inspection _ was to be real the officer must be given a proper chance. In cases which bad come under his (Mr Walker’s) observation in many other places be had seen that inspections wer© carried out in a perfunctory manner sometimes. THE REFERENDUM. Th© adjourned debate on the Referendum Bill was resumed by the Hon A. Pitt. He blamed the Government for having weakly and out 0 f good nature taken up some private member’s Bill. The Bill was altogether without merit. The Hon H. Scotland condemned th© Bill, and it was then rejected. POLICE OFFENCES. Th e Police Offences Act Amendment Bill was dealt with in committee. Clause 4, which provided that to sew tion 26 of the principal Act be added the words, “ Who habitually consorts with reputed thieves or prostitutes or persons who have -no visible means of support,” evoked much discussion. It was urged by several Councillors that the words “ reputed ” should b e deleted, as it placed too much power in the hands of the police. Eventually, that course was taken, and the third reading of th© Bill as amended was set down for another day. MORTGAGES ON LAND. The Hon W. C. WALKER moved the second reading of the Mortgages of Land Bill. The Hon E. C. J. STEVENS hoped that the Minister would attend before the Statutes Revision Committee with, the Bill. He thought such a course very desirable. The Hon A. PITT thought the Bill wa s unnecessary. Further, it was complicated and confusing. It was an interference by a layman with a subject which he did not understand. What was required was for the Government to take steps to bring all the land transactions of the colony under the Land Transfer Act. Th e Hon Messrs Twomey and Scotland also spoke on the motion, and it was then read a second time, and (on the suggestion of the, Hon Mr Stevens) referred to the Statutes Revision Committee,

The Council adjourned at twenty-five minutes to 5 o’clock.