HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 1426, 29 June 1899, Page 32

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

FRIDAY. The Speaker took the chair at 2.50 p.m. Letters were read by Mr Speaker from the relatives of the late Sir George Grey, Sir Dillon Bill and the Hon Mr Larnacli in reply to the resolutions of condolence passed by ! he House last session. On the motion of the Premier, the letters were ordered to be entered ou the journals of the House. After the transaction of formal business, the House at 3.55 p.m. adjourned until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday. TUESDAY, JUNE 27. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. The PREMIER (Mr Seddon) moved that two months’ leave of absence be granted to the Hon John McKenzie on account of absence in England. Mr GEORGE HUTCHISON (Patea) asked the conditions under which the Minister for Lands had left—for instance, with regard to his salary. Was any further payment to be made to him on account of his trip, and was he provided with a private secretary at the cost of the colony ? The PREMIER said he thought it was most unusual, to use 110 stronger expression, to ask such a question, and it was unprecedented that an answer should be

given.. Illniess was the chief cause of the absence of his worthy colleague. He was quite prepared in proper circumstances to give an answer to the questions asked by Mr Hutchison, and to afford the House the fullest information. The. motion to grant leave of absence was agreed to, and Mr Hutchison thereupon gave formal notice of questions on the subject. THE MARINE INQUIRY.

. The question of the Royal Commission to inquire into the irregularities in the Marine Department was mentioned by the leader of the Opposition (Captain Russell,),, who asked the Premier the names of the Commissioners and the scope of their duties. ThQ. PREMIER replied that the Commission consisted of Judge Ward and Dr Giles, and its scope and powers were full in the extreme. There was no limit as to time. (Laughter.) Hon members, were iaughing before they were out of the wood.. • : *Th© Government found that it was necessary that the inquiry should go back beyond the time of office of the present Administration (“hear, hear - ’); that was the time he had referred to. The Commission was to report ' within one month, so that it-was anticipated that the Commission would be able to report by the end of July. Mr TAYLOn (Christchurch): Will the Minister give evidence? ■ • The PREMIER said Mr Taylor seemed to know every i.~ng, and probably he might be able to give evidence in this case. It was,, however, to be hoped that he would cut a better figure than he did before the Police Commission. Mr TAYLOR: What about the figure you cut before the Police Commission? (Laughter.) The PREMIER: Under any circumstances I should cut a better figure than the member for Christchurch. (Renewed laughter.) The Commission would, he went on to say, inquire into the issue of certificates, and the details of the examinations at which those certificates were granted. Complaints had been made that some candidates had not been fairly treated, and that others had been favoured. He would consider whether it was possible to lay the report of the Commission before Parliament. It would probably be made public by the Commissioners themselves. Mr TAYLOR asked if Dr Giles was not on the Rakaia Railway Disaster Commission.

The PREMIER said that was so, but that Commission was expected to conclude in a week. By that time he hoped the preliminaries of the Marine Inquiry Commission would be arranged, and that the Commission would then be able to set to work at once. NEW BILLS. A number of Bills were introduced by private members and Ministers and read a first time. THE LATE SIR JULIUS VOGEL. The PREMIER said it was with deep regret that he had to ask the House to pass a resolution condoling with the relatives of the late Sir Julius Vogel. The services rendered to the colony by the late statesman deserved, he thought, that consideration at their hands. After speaking at length of the life work of Sir Julius Vogel, the Premier concluded by moving:—“That this House desires to place: on record its high sense of the distinguished services rendered to the colony by the late Sir Julius Vogel, and respectfully tendei'S to Lady Vogel and her family the assurance of its sincere sympathy with them in their irreparable loss.” Captain RUSSELL seconded the molion. The name of the late Sir Julius Vogel, he said, would ever be connected with the history of the colony, and with its advancement and progress towards civilisation. The motion was agreed to without further debate. The House then (4.10 p.m.) adjourned until 7.30 p.m. ADDRESS-IN-REPLY. Mr. J. STEVENS (Manawatu; move! the Address-in-Reply at the evening sitting. Ho regretted, he said, that the authorities had not taken prompt steps to prevent the great los. of life which had occurred at Samoa, through, he believed, a misunderstanding. He was in favour of New Zealand being placed in a position of defence, but hoped the Government would not spend more than *Svas absolutely necessary, and that the colony would not be put to the expense of maintaining a permanent army, thinking that the volunteer movement should be fostered in every way. He was strongly in favour of pushing on with tho North Island Main Trunk railway, which was one of the most important works that could be done, and that the branch lines should be completed in good time after the main lines had been carried out. The North Island railway should be by the shortest possible route; the line from Stratford would come afterwards; but if any deviation was made from the route laid down by Parliament a great mistake would be made. He advocated a loan for the completion of the North Island railway and Midland railway, which would, he believed, result in no loss, to the colony, and which would, on the other hand, greatly conduce. to the prosperity of the colony. Mr Stevens went on to point out that the Government must consider as to bri aging about a reciprocal tariff between New Zealand and the federated colonies of Australia. He hoped in future legislation everything would be done to induce the natives to become part and parcel of the colonists of New Zea-

land, and he urged that until a native could become as personally independent as a European, and the state of communism broken down, it would be physically impossible for him ever to assimilate himself with the white population of the colony. As to the Old Age Pensions Act, he thought twenty years' residence should be sufficient to qualify for the pension. He defended the land administration of tho colony, and said he was satisfied that all the settlers required was good roads to give them access to their sections, and he hoped the Government would also vigorously pursue tho present lands for settlement policy. He gave figures showing the great progress made by the colony dining the past ten years, and said the progress was an outcome of the corruption of which the Opposition had made so much. He hoped, however, they would long continue to progress in the same way. (Hear, hear.) MrJ. A. MILLAR (Dunedin) seconded the motion. He urged that greaterattention should be paid to the development of the gold mining industry, and that the colony’s manufactures should be fostered by placing a higher duty on certain classes of machinery. He congratulated the Government on having set up a Royal Commission ro inquire into the irregularities in the Marine Department. The public would feel much better satisfied with the report of such a commission than with the report of any committee which could be set up by the House. A Royal Commission would sit in public. The evidence would be reported in the press from day to day, and it would be fresh in the minds of the public. He was, however, afraid that tire public would find themselves very much at sea when the report of the Commission came out, because the whole object was to try and prove a thing hint did not exist. He also congratulated tiie Government on having appointed competent men to look after the shipping at the principal ports, and he felt certain that shipping matters would receive more careful atention in the future than they had in the past. The Government had also done a. wise thing in sending to the Board of Trade for a Nautical Adviser, but he contended that all shipping matters should bo placed under the control of a Marine Board. The proposal to take the duties off the necessaries of life—to institute a free breakfast table—meant a loss of £238,481, which meant a saving of only about 63 per bead of the population per annum, and he could not see any necessity for sacrificing revenue in that direction. He believed the North island Trunk railway was the most im -

portant national work at present being carried out, but he contended that the trunk lines in the South Island should also havo a fair share of money spent upon them. He was in favour of thoroughly equipping the railways before making any further reductions in freights, and he agreed with the proposal to raise a railway loan, urging that half a million should be borrowed yearly for tho purpose of carrying on the trunk lines. The Government, lie went on to say, had endeavoured, as far as they could, to legislate in the interests of the workers, and he was pleased to see that they proposed to deal with the question of fair wages and working hours for local bodies and the Government. A wage of 7s per day was the lowest a man should be asked to work for. He urged that a Judre should be appointed to deal solely with the work of the Arbitration Court, and that tho Conciliation Boards should be either abolished altogether or made into Courts having some power. 'Hear, hear.) If that were done there would not be half so much work for the Arbitration Court as at present. He was sorry the Governor’s Speech did not contain any proposal*, tc consolidate tho loans of local bodies. He hoped that Parliament would this session deal with tho question of the Press Association, which he declared had developed into a huge monopoly. Captain RUSSELL was the nest speaker. In regard to the reduction of taxation on the ■ necessaries of life, lie complimented the Government on having jumped the claims of the opposition in that respect, and said be had always advocated that the burden of taxation should be placed on the shoulders of those best able to bear it He disagreed with the present management of the railways, and pointed out that tho rolling stock was being increased out of borrowed money." He maintained that there was no such prosperity in the colony at the present time as there had been in the" past, and that the working classes were not so easily able to get employment, and were not generally in such a prosperous condition as formerly. As to the Rojnl Commission on the Marine Department set up by the Government, lie agreed that net much information would come out of that, and he proposed to move an amendment, on the subject with which the Premier could not but agree. As to labour legislation, he said official records would show that in 1890 all sorts of measures were introduced by the Atkinson Government, and were blocked, mainly at the instigation of the present Premier, in the belief that the then Opposition would win at tho approaching election, and because they themselves wanted to introduce that legislation when they came into power. Ho approved of the individualisation of native titles, as mentioned, by Mr Stevens, but the proposals of the Government were in the direc-

tion of perpetuating the system under which the natives at present hold their lands. As to the reference in the Governor’s speech to defence matters, ho was happy to think tho harbour defences might be put in an improved position - but the Defence Minister had not sufficiently realised that the mere arming of the volunteers would not make them efficient. They must be trained and disciplined, and properly paid, competent officers must be appointed to c induct that work. Ho did not think it wa» a wise thing to propose to send volunteers to Samoa. He gave the Premier credit for trying to do the best thing, but it appeared to him that the proposal was to send men to fight in an unjiist cause—against a man, MataSfa, who really ought to be King of Samoa at the present time.

The PREMIER: We wanted to send our men to stop bloodshed. (Laughter.) Captain RUSSELL went on to refer to the irregularities in the Marine Department, and said that the answer of the Premier to his question that afternoon conveyed 110 information to the House as to the scope of the Commission’s inquiry. He (Captain Russell) wanted to widen the inquiry so that no one should go unexamined, and that a full and careful inquiry should bo held into all the circumstances. He would therefore move as an amendment —“We would respectfully inform your Excellency that inasmuch as no Royal Commission can constitutionally inquire into the conduct of Ministers in relation to their departments, and whereas Ministers have on a former and similar occasion pleaded their constitutional, privileges to exempt them from giving evidence before a Royal Commission, the House affirms its undoubted right to fully inquire into the connection of Ministers with the issue of a master’s certificate to Captain Jones, of the Ducq. independently of any inquiry by the Royal Commission.” That, he believed, was the only course which would recommend itself to the House. It appeared that the Government had Lad under consideration for a long time the issuing of a certificate to Captain Jones, and that they did in the end actually procure its issue. If the telegram sent by the Premier to his colleague before leaving for England, on the subject of the issue of .1 certificate to Captain Jones, was not pressure, he did not know what was the meaning of the word. As to the envelope given to Captain Alhnan by the Minister of Marine, in regard to a permit and daptain .Jones, it could have but one interpretation, and that was borne out by the Secretary of Marine saying he understood the Minister took the responsibility of allowing Captain Jones to go up for the examination. What he wanted was a full inquiry, and that Ministers should not be allowed to avail themselves of their privilege and not attend to give evidence before the Commission. It was the duty of Ministers to submit themselves to such an examination, so that there should be no question tint they themselves had not been concerned, except by clumsy administration, in allowing a certificate to be granted to someone who ought not to have had it. He had no doubt if the matter were dealt with by a Royal Commission Ministers would refuse to give evidence. Tho Opposition wanted them to give evidence, io let the world know that the Ministers mentioned were deeply wronged individuals. He hoped that that would be proved at the examination. It was important that their rulers should he above suspicion, and Ministers should themselves agree to the amendment he had proposed. He claimed that .t was a violation of tlie Electoral Act to employ men to go round canvassing for people to put their names on the roll, and he ai’gued that people ought to bo left to put their names on the roll without the intervention of the Government. He hoped they would find out tho cost of such procedure. They had now two Ministers who were practically no longer responsible to Parliament, another Minister was absent, and the Premier and the Hon Mr Carroll were really the only members of the Government responsible ~o the people for their administration. The position, of the Ministry was unconstitutional, or very near it, and the House ought net to tolerate such a condition of things, which was, he urged, absolutely indefensible. The PREMIER announced that, as tho Leader of the Opposition would naturally expect, an amendment such as that must be taken as a no-confi-dence motion. He took it that the amendment was made 11: ore with a view of burking inquiry than of widening it, and also to put in a difficult position certain members on that side of the House who had expressed themselves freely on the subject. He thought it would be better that they should adjourn the debate until 2.3 J p.m. on the following day, and he accordingly moved in that direction. The debate was thereupon adjourned, and the House rose at 10.10 p.m.

Messrs William Lingard (late trooper Kai Iwi Cavalry), F. H. Haselden (late Ist Waikato Regiment), W. T. Watte (A.C. Force), George Prince (captain N.Z. Militia) and William J. Raven (Forest Rangers) have petitioned that their allegations regarding the presentation of the New Zealand Criss “unworthily bestowed on Mr Harry Wrigg” may he dealt with on the evidence already taken.