MR HUTCHISON'S CHARGES.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 964, 22 August 1890, Page 20

MR HUTCHISON'S CHARGES.

THE DECISION OF THE GOVERNMENT. A LIBEL ACTION TO BE BEGUN. The Minister of Education made a statement to the House on Wednesday afternoon of the intentions of the Government with res poet to the accusations cf Mr. Hutchison. He had only spoken a few preliminary remarks, however, when it was pointed out that Mr Hutohisou was uot present,, and the Minister agreed to let the matter stand over until the member for Waitotara should be in the House. Later in the afternoon Mr Hutchison came into the Chamber, and the Minister resumed his speech. He had promised, he said, that when the Government came to a determination as to what they would do in regard to Mr Hutchison’s charges he would inform the House what that determination was. The Government had had the matter under consideration and had come to a decision. (Mr Hutchison: Hear, hear.) In the charges there were involved two matters—first, relating entirely to the public conduct of business by the Ministry, involved in certain statements as to the finances of the Colony; and second, the maladministration in its relation to the private position of one of the members of the Miuistry. Statements were also made with regard to other members of the Ministry, but they were not so speoific. The Government thought the House should have placed before it such information as would enable it to come to a decision on the matter, and therefore he asked the House to permit him to lay on tho table a memorandum by the Colonial Treasurer dealing with two phases of the matter, simply giving the history in plain terms of the finances during the last few years. Attached to this statement were tables showing the actual position of the public account in New Zealand and in London during the last six years. Mr Hislop proceeded to read the headings of the various tables, which referred to the amounts to credit, lodgments, daily and monthly balances, etc., of all Government accounts with the Bank of New Zealand for the three years of the last Government’s term of office, and a similar period under the present Government. He begged to apologise for having to present the paper in this way, but the reason, as hon members were aware, was the inability of the Colonial Treasurer to attend in the House and make the statement. The other phase of the matter was the personal phase, and the Government had also had that under serious consideration. The member of the Ministry to whom he had referred as being more particularly affected by the charge (Sir Frederick Whitaker) also took it into consideration, and with the concurrence of his colleagues had determined to institute proceedings in the Supreme Court against Mr Hutchison (hear, hear)—and those proceedings, if not already commenced, would be begun immediately. (Mr Hutohison : Hear, hear.) He moved that the paper lie on the table and be printed. Mr Kerr wanted to know how a member could be proceeded against for doing his duty in the House. Mr Fisher: Let them go ; what does it matter ? Mr Kerr said he wanted to know about this. Mr Fisher -...They’ll know enough about it before they have done with it. Mr Kerr believed this was a ,! hox.’ (Laughter.) He understood Mr Hislop had several speeches ready made, and did not know which to make. Mr Ballance did net know how far Parliamentary privilege was affected by the statement just made. If a member could be proceeded with for speeches he made in the House he did not know that their privileges were worth anything. He asked whether any further action was to be taken in this matter iu the House. The Minister of Education : Not further than what might arise oat of the report of the Reporting Debates Committee. Mr Ballance said Mr Hutchison had not replied to any of the speeches made on the subject by Ministers because the' Governmeut’s “three courses” were held over him. Now, if he replied to these speeches he would be told he had no right to do so, because the matter was to be relegated to the Courts of law. Now, however, a Parliamentary paper dealing with the matter was to be laid on the table. He contended that when Mr Hutchison came down with a statement ia reply to the charges, as he would in a few days, he should not be met by any technical objeotion. Mr Smith asked whether the case was to be tried before Judge Edwards. Mr VV. P. Reeves asked whether the aotion of the Attorney-General had been accelerated through or owiDg to recent pro. oeedings iu the Reporting and Debates Committee. Mr Taylor raised the point that members were being intimidated by legal proceedings being threatened. He asked how it was that copies of Mr Hislop’s recent speech had been sent all over the Colony and not Mr Hutchison’s speech. The Speaker said in his opinion the House was atrong enough to proteot itself against any invasion of its privileges when they took place, but he was not going to say that they had. Probably when other steps would be taken in a few days his opinion would be asked. Mr Fisher expressed an Opinion that the Colony would find Mr Hutchison’s costs, whatever they might be ; and he himself, though he would not pay the whole of it himself, would undertake to raise £SO toward them. He asked who was to bear the cost

of these legal proceedings to be Attorney-General 1 the Dr Fitohett thought the Government h a adopted the most politic oour9e nn.. J them. He was disposed to believe V? Ministers knew the question of privil would arise in due time and end the Then we should have the Ministry lift; up their hands in holy horror and g . v “ g that if Mr Hutohison had not pleaded Dri v - 8 lege they would have been successful in tk suit. m tns

Mr Hutchison was glad to see that tk. Minister had differentiated between th public and private charges, and aareed th»t the former should be fought out on the fl ' of the House. He was ready to meet th* hon gentleman or any of his colleagues on that issue, and had been ready from th' very outset. He formulated his charges before the Committee, and had had, all th time, evidence to support them ; but he had not yet had a fitting opportunity for go i nB into those matters. On tho sth of August “ Mr Hislop came down and, under the erne \ of a statement, entered into a review of some figures he (the speaker) had quoted At the same time, as Mr Ballance had stated, the Minister held over his head three courses, and he was necessarily p ra . vented from replying to him then and there" - as he bad intended to do. However the House was now to be congratulated, and he himself was perfectly satisfied that the three courses had been disclosed. The first Was this voyage of discovery into the printing office ; the next a volume of statistics placed on the table ; and the third was the aotion at law which had been, or was about to be commenced. That was the sum and substance of the three courses of the Government, and he doubted if any supporter of the Government even in or out of tho House would consider them satisfactory. As to the matter before the House, that the paper be laid on the table, it would, he bo lieved, deserve consideration. He waßnow prepared-, and would be at any hour of the day or the evening to answer the figures of the Minister of Education, but he thought it would be indicating more respeot to the Government and the Treasury if time were given for members to go into the papers. He did not anticipate for a moment that they oould altar his facts and figures. They could not be disturbed. As to the threat, he was not a bit dismayed at any threat on the sub. ject of any action at law. Ho had never sought to set up privilege except so far as it was proper for tho dignity of the House that its privileges should bo maintained, and consistently with that he was prepared to meet any of the Ministers. So far as it did nob touch the privilege of the House he should meet them in a court of law, without fear and with perfect confidence that what he had said was said for the public good. Sir George Grey objected to such matters as this being referred to courts of justice, and did not ihink the courts would give an opinion on the question whether or not Ministers under obligations to the Bank should hold office. The Minister of Education, replying, laid he had only made one speeoh in which he went into the subject-matter of Mr Hutobison’s charges, namely, that made on the sth of August. Members on the other side of the House were very hard to please. He bad set up all the tribunals Mr Hubchisou asked for, and did not make any objection until the Committee wanted to go into a personal inquiry. He was prepared at the outset to give the Committee an order on the Bank showing the state of Sir Frederiok Whitaker’s private account for the last three years. The Government had as much respect for the privileges of the House as the Opposition, and wished to see them upheld. They did not think any member Bhouiu be allowed to make personal charges which he would not make outside. Mr W. P. Reeves ; Why have privilege at all, then ? The Minister said Mr Reeves knew well enough why privilege was established. The action he had referred to would be between man and, man—between Sir Frederiok Whitaker and Mr George Hutohison. It would not be for what had been said in the House, for Mr Hutchison had admitted that his speech was circulated throughout the country., Mr Kerr having made an interjeotioD, the Minister challenged him to say outside the House what he had said in if about the circulation of the speech. Mr Kerr : I’ll go outside now if you like. The Minister denied that he had ever attempted to close the mouth of Mr Hutchison, and deprecated the references which had been made to Judge Edwards, remarking that he was glad Mr Hutchison had not made any such reference. The paper was laid on the table and ordered to be printed. The Minister of Education, in reply to Mr Reeves, said the action of the Government would have been just the same as it woa now, irrespective of any information as to what the Reporting and Debates Committeo might have done. This ended the discussion.