The Labour Question.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 956, 27 June 1890, Page 22

The Labour Question.

By Electric Telegraph.—Copyright. THE DECISION OF THE EMPLOYERS. (per press association.) Sydney, June 19. A meeting of fully 200 persons, representing the shipping, export, import, and manufacturing interests of the colony, unanimously passed the following resolutions This meeting having considered the attitude of the Wharf Labourers’ Union in refusing i to come to terms with the employers, in the'-v----interest of the freedom of commerce in New South Wales, pledges itself to support the employers in upholding the rules agreed upon, namely, the eight-hours system as follows :—Over sea trade, 6 a.in. to 4 p.m. in summer, with two breaks for meals, and from S to 5 in winter, with one break. In the coasting trade, eight hours’ continuous work between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. ; overtime to be paid outside the houis above specified. The rate of wages to be Is per hour, and le 6d per hour for overtime, the latter to begin at 1 o’clock on Saturdays; the present arrangement between the owners and sailors as to overtime to remain undisturbed ; freedom of contract with constant men to be allowed. The above rules shall be adopted from the Ist July next, and continue for one year. If the labourers’ fee and the union entrance fee of five guineas limits the number below the requirements of the trade, the employers reserve the right to employ nonunion men. The following document shall be sigDed : “Exporters and importers agree for twelve months nob to give any cargo to, or support any shipowner, agent, captain, or stevedore who infiingeß the first resolution. This meeting, while not objecting to the right of the individual to endeavour to improve his position with respect to the hours of labour or remuneration, strongly protests against the ill considered and unjustifiable ait of any trade organisation whereby the interests of the Colony are prejudiced and its progress and prosperity retarded.’’ It is expected the Chamber of Commeroe will take the matter up on similar lines. Sydney, June 25. The Trades and Labour Council have cabled to the London Trades and Labour Counoil and Dockers’ Union, warning the men from accepting work in Sydney in the event of a strike. At the Conference between the delegates of the Marine Officers’ Association of New South Wales and Victoria with the shipowners, the proceedings were of a most friendly character. The proposals of the officers were submitted as suggestions rather than demands, and went in the direction of an increase of pay, an increase in the number of officers on the intercolonial steamers, and a definition of tho working hours and the duties of the officers when at sea and in port. The shipowners suggested certain modifications whichhave not been made public, but it is stated that the delegates promised to give them full aDd careful consideration, and intimated that they would forward their reply by letter. (PER PRESS ASSOCIATION.) Auckland, June 23. The early closing movement is making considerable headway. The latest adherents to the cause are thirteen tailoring firms, who have resolved to close their premises in future on Saturdays at 2 p.m. The boilermakers, engineers, brass and ironfounders, and plate ironworkers have expressed an intention of the recently-formed Ironworkers’. Association, which now comprises principally blacksmiths and farriers. A committee of the Association is to discuss the question with them. It is hoped that the coachbuilders will also become members. At a meeting of the Auckland branch of the Society of Carpenters and Joiners it was resolved to form a union. Complaint was made of the low wages paid in the trade, one of the causes being the under-cutting of nonunion men. A large number of workmen joined the Society. The coal dealers of Auckland held a meeting to-night, when it was decided to form a Coal Dealers’ Association. A committee was appointed to draw up rules and to fix a schedule of prices for coal. The boot operatives at the various factories have received advances of pay on Saturday for which they had previously applied. All the factories are very busy, and this trade has not been so brisk for a long' time. Dunedin, June 23. At a meeting of tho Tramway Employes’ Union it was decided to make a levy of Is in the pound on a week’s wages, and send the proceed? to tho Wellington tramway men on strike. Further contributions are to be sent if necessary. , At a meeting of the Metalworkers’ Union it was resolved to make 44 hours a week’s work. The Canterbury Trades and Labour Council on Saturday adopted a suggestion to set apart the 28th October for a labour demonstration. The operative bakers have approved the proposal to establish a co-operative bakery. A Butchers’ and Slaughtermen’s Union was formed to night with a membership of over 100. The carpenters and joiners have formed a Union. Unions are also to be formed among the operatives of tho woollen factories and the rope works. Dunedin, June 25. There are now 6000 men in Dunedin members either of the Maritime Council or Trades Council. In the Colony there are 40,000 affiliated to the various labour organisations,

Auckland, June 24. Contributions of;£2o from the Dunedin Bootmakers’ Union and £2O from the Thames Miners’ Union were received yesterday on behalf of the tailoresses on strike. The weekly pay to the strikers ranges from £23 to £29, but this will be decreased, as many of the tailoresses are to be employed by other firms. The masters had agreed not to employ any girls who had gone out on strike, but the Union then threatened to call out all the employes, and the eombiua* tion was broken up. MERCANTILE MARINE OFFICERS. On Monday Captain Highman, Secretary of the local Association, had an interview with Mr G. McLean, Chairman of Directors of the Union S.S. Company, in the course of which Mr McLean gave Captain Highman to clearly understand that he considered the Association’s demands excessive. Captain Highman states that he has received a com. munication from the Victorian branch agreeing with the resolutions of the New Zealand branch with respect to increased pay, and hoping to hear that the concessions asked for have been granted. Amoncst the passengers who arrived by the Takapuna on Wednesday was Mr Ransom (manager of the Northern Steamship Company) who was engaged on Wednesday in conferring with representatives of several other steamboat companies. The whole of the delegates are now in Wellington, but the date of tho conference has not yet been fixed, but it is expected to take place before the end of this week. CARPENTERS’ AND JOINERS’ UNION. A well-attended meeting of the Carpenters' and Joiners’Union was held at the Foresters’ Hall on Tuesday nig h t, the President, Mr W. Mudge, being in the chair. Thirty new members were e lected. The only other business was the adoption of rules, which were confirmed after some discussion, and the meeting then adjourned till Tuesday evening next. BOILERMAKERS AND SHIPBUILDERS’ UNION'. The half-yearly meeting of the Boilermakers and Shipbuilders’ Union was held ntßowley’s rooms on Tuesdday night, when a good deal of business was transacted in connection with the Union. The Society granted the Trades aod Labour Council power to levy the Union in the event of a strike occurring. It was decided to take up ten shares in the ’Bus Company. The election of officers for the ensuing six months resulted as follows : President, Mr J. Mcßain ; Vice-President, Mr J. Moran (re-eleoted) ; Treasurer, Mr F. Jaffray (re elected); Auditors, Messrs J. Mcßain and E. Leary. This was all the business dealt with. THE KNIGHTS OF LABOUR. A well-attended meeting of the Knights of Lebour was held at the Foresters’ Hall on Wednesday, Mt W. McLean being in the chair. The press representatives were not admitted and on inquiring at the termination of the meeting our representative was informed that it had been decided not to make the proceedings public. The sawmillera of the Wairarapa district are forming an Association to regulate the prices of timber. A meeting will shortly be held to discuss the question. RAILWAY EMPLOYES GRIEVANCES. THE COMMISSIONERS’ REPLY. DETERMINED ACTION OF THE ‘ DELEGATES. On Saturday morning the Railway Servants’ Delegates waited on the Commissioners to receive the reply of those officers to the matters brought before them by the deDutation. The proceedings were begun by" Mr Maxwell making a formal statement of tho present conditions of the service with respect to recognition of 8 hours continuous labour as a day’s work. A short discussion ensued, in the course of which it was stated that labourers’ wages at present paid by the Commissioners were 5b 6d a day, to which Mr Maxwell replied that it was still 6s 6d for adult labourers, but youDg men of 21 were paid 5s 6d according to the regulation scale. He asserted that changes had been made in favour of the employes, but Mr Winter said they had always been favourable to the employer. Mr McKerrow read the following statement of the Commissioners’ proposals : The Commissioners have resolved to make the following material concessions to the demands of the Association :—l. By restricting boy labour in the shops. 2. By giving extra pay for guards’ oyertime. 3. By abandoning the rule which leaves the local officer to fix the working time, and by allowing standing time up to three hours at a spell to count for working time in the case of drivers, firemen, and guards, without deduction for dinner hour. 4. By restrict, ing excessive hours. 5. By abating piecework as a rule. 6. By raising the age for cleaners to enter. Bat they cannot undertake to treat persons engaged on intermittent services on the same basis as those on con« tinuons work. The latter work on the eight-hour system ; the former must have their duties regulated according to services. The adoption of an eight-hour day for intermittent workers as suggested, while costing the Colony probably £50,000 a year more, would also in many instances give the employes on the lightest and least responsible duty the highest wages. Following are the details of the proposals of the Commissioners : Boy Labour. —The employment of boys and apprentices in the shops to approximate, gradually, to the proposale. made. The numbers prescribed by the Association for the Way and Works Department are too many, their adoption would displace a large number of men ; the Commissioners do not propose to exceed the present proportion materially.' For the traffic and general service the number of cadets and lads should remain approximately at the present prowhich is somewhat below the pro-

portion assigued by the Association. This number is reasonabiy sufficient to fill the vacancies with trained hands as they occur. Eight hours’ continuous work is to constitute a day’s work, as at present ; intermittent services are to bo treated as the case may require, the following modified rules being adopted : Working Hours.—Workmen aro required to work eight hours per day, or 4S hours per week, for the authorised daily wages. The regular hours of work are from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. on working days, with one hour off. Extra pay will be allowed to labourers and tradesmen for time worked in excess of eight hours per day, subject to such regulations ae may be from time to time issued. Locomotive Running. Sixty hours to count as one week’s work for a driver or fireman. Overtime to be counted at the rate of time and a quarter. Traffic.—Traffic employes generally will be required to work all trains on the advertised timetable without allowance for overtime. But as far as possible duties to be arranged to avoid overtime. Sixty hours to count as one week’s work for guards, overtime to be counted at the rate of time and a quarter. General.—Half-pay will be ailowed to suffering accident when on duty if from causes beyond their own control for the first three months, and quarter pay for an additional three months. As far as can be arranged, consistently with economy and public conveivence, in the case of employes generally, the working time is not to exceed eight hours per day, or 48 hours per week of six working days. Drivers, firemen, and guards will have the whole time counted from first coming on duty until finally leaving, without deduction for dinner hour, except in cases where they are standing for more than three hours at a spell. Time standing for more than three hours at a spell will not be counted. Note—From this it will be seen that a liberal allowance is made for standing time, and the objection, strongly stated by the Association, to the local officer fixing the time allowed, is removed. The Commissioners will restrict all excessive hours of working, employing extra hands as a rule in preference. The workmen, .as a general rule, cannot be paid for the time going to or coming from their work, but in extreme and exceptional cases special allowance will he made, according to the merits of the case. Where piecework is considered desirable, the pay will not he less than ordinary wages rate, but workmen will be allowed to earn up to .rate and a quarter. In a general way, piecework will be restricted, the Commissioners using the system only where they think circumstances justify it. The age for cleaners to enter will be from 18 years to 21 years; the wages to be 7s a day at 22 years. Mr Hoban did not think the Commissioners had given sufficiently definite answers, and asked whether or not they agreed to the boy labour proportion. Mr McKerrow said they adopted it, and agreed to work in that direction, but at present, as had been stated, they could not distribute the boys so as to make the proportion light in eaoh shopSome discussion ensued, and finally, at the suggestion of MrElvines, the Commissioners agreed that in the shops where the proportion is now higher than that suggested by the delegates they will take on no fresh apprentices for two years, and that after that, if nece»-ary, so as to get down to the proportion, one shall be taken on as three go off. With respect to cadets, the Commissioners maintained the position previously taken up by them—that it was necessary to train people for the service, and that ae present number of cadeds was only su ah as was reasonable for that purpose and to meet the demand. They offered, however, to establish a cadet as a clerk after six years’ service and give him the clerk’s increase of salary. The delegates took time to consider this proposal, and, as stated below, subsequently agreed to it. The Commissioners agreed that no one under 21 years of age should be employed as shunter in a main yard or at important junctions. There was a long discussion on the hours of labour proposals. The Commissioners pointed out that payment for three hours’ standing would cover nearly all the cases in which a man was standing during the day, and that as the dinner hour was not deducted the intermittent men were really paid for 54 hours a week. The delegates, however, insisted on 48 hours a week, according to their instructions; and Mr Winter said they would be tarred and feathered if they went back to Christchurch without getting this principle adopted. Mr Owen also appealed to the Commissioners to concede the 48 hours. At 1 o’clock the Conference adjourned till 3, with the subject still under discussion. A STRIKE THREATENED. On the conference resuming at 3 o’clock, Mr Owen expressed regret that the Commissioners had not decided to give the con. cession of 8 hours a day or 4S hours a week, as asked for. Mr Hoban : We are told at all hazards to get the 8 hours a day or 4S hours a week adopted by yon. As you refuse that, when we return to Christchurch we have to offer you arbitration, and if you refuse that, we shall have to resort to extreme measures. It is to be deplored that we should have to do this—myself I would never counsel it. I might say that Borne people look upon myself and one or two others as acting under a desire “to put ourselves prominently before the public,” but that has never been my object. If I can do anything to assist these men I will do it. I think this is a matter that the Commissioners should consider ; we are supported by large bodies throughout the Colony, and if extreme measures are taken there is no knowing where it will end. It will not cost the Colony £20,000 or £30,000 —it may cost it £IOO,OOO. Mr McKerrow : You mean calling the men out? Mr Hoban : Yes. They are very cletermind in the matter. They say, “ This principle (8 hours, or 4S hours) is universal or will be in a few years. Why should net the Commissioners say in a graceful way, We will give you the same terms ?” It is just a question, as you admit yourselves, of

six hours to each man ; and for that small concession you force us to extreme steps ! It is hardly worth while staying to discuss the question if you don’t give way; I don’t see how we can treat with you at all unless this question is settled. I regret this very much, but we have thought the matter out thoroughly, not only in the Executive, but also in consultation with business people outside. I hope you won’t think we take the advice of every M.H.R. we see -we take the advice of business people, who know what can be done ; and gentlemen, they tell us that if the service is rearranged our views can be adopted. If we resort to extreme measures we shall have the public of the Colony at our back as well as members of the House, for we happened to be at the House last night, and the remarks of memers all tended to show that our demands were considered very reasonable indeed. While we have to thank you for one or two concessions though they are very small ones indeed your replies to several of our communications are not altogether, what we expected. Let mo put this before you. You said our proportion with regard to boy labour would enable you to employ more boys, but in your reply you say that the number proposed by us would displace men. Now our object is to limit the proportion of boys, not to displace men. In the event of our asking you to go before independent employers or labour, would you meet us in the matter ? At the present time yon are both judge and jury ; you are here, as one of my colleagues has pointed out to me, to try a case against yourself and decide it. Where there are two points in dispate it is usual to refer the matter to a third party, and as this matter would cost the Colony a groat deal of money, 1 and it is unfair, as you admit by your pro--1 posal, then I think we Bhould save the Colony expense. I don’t see any use in takiDg your time up, gentlemen, unless my colleagues would like to say a word or two. Mr Owen : We have had advice from and consultation with some of the largest bodies of men in the Colony, and we are associated with bodies on the other side: I don’t know what thry would do or tbink of us—we would not dare to show our noses if we attempted to meet your proposals. Why, the men would drown us if they got us alongside the water 1 Mr Winter : The Maritime Council, which is a very large body, is going in for eight hours, and so are others, and we wish to be recognised as a body trying to further the system. If we go back to Christchurch and advise the Executive to accept this concession which (you are pleased to we shall be working in direct opposition to all the principles laid down by the great labour federations all over the world, and be looked on as men who are undoing what they had been doing. We could not possibly do it. It is contrary to everything that is reasonable to accept it. Although you may think extreme measures may not be adopted, we are afraid they will be if the eight hours system is not conceded ; aud if there is the slightest tendency to extreme measures not only will these bodies assist us bat they will almost compel U 3, from the unionist point of view. So that I hope these matters will all be taken into eon sideration, and due weight given them before we finally depart. Mr McKerrow : I should not like you to think the Commissioners are averse to the eight hours system ; on the contrary, they are in favour of It. But we discriminate between eight hours’ continuous work and intermittent labour. We have already pointed out that in the traffic, locomotive, and running departments it is absolutely impossible to confine it to eight hours. It was admitted, indeed, that there were exceptional cases, but it was also pointed out that there were so many “exceptional cases” that, supposing we agree to what you suggest, it would not be carried out —we could not do it from the very fact that the service would not admit it. You agreed with us that it would be very absurd to have two seta of men, say two stationmasters at a country station, We all deplore, extreme measures, of course, and I am very glad you have expressed yourselves as you have ; but I can hardly see that the Commissione.s, entrusted as they have been with this great property of tho eouutry, some 14 millions sterling in value, aud pressed on all sides by the settlers to reduce rates so as to enable them to traffic their produce to the markets I do uob see that -we could accept the responsibility of adding so much to the taxation of the country as this would involve, because that is what it really amounts to. On that account the Commissioners, having, of course, given it careful consideration, hesitate to go further than they have gone, because we have already gone in the direction of adding several thousands to the expense to the country ; and I think if you consider it out you will see that by allowing for standing time and so forth we have gone a long way toward meeting your demands. I quite appreciate your being part of a great organisation, and that it may be difficult for you to explain why you depart from the letter of your instructions; but I think that as reasonable men they will be able to see the difference between what we have all along stated is continuous labour and intermittent labour. Mr Hoban : Well, then, what you say is practically this : That you absolutely decline to make eight hours or forty-eight hoars recognised ? Mr McKerrow : Yes. Mr Maxwell : For intermittent services. Mr Hoban : Then the next question is this : Would you be prepared to submit it to any independent parties ? Mr McKerrow: I think not, for this reason ; we, as I have just said, have been entrusted with the administration of this service, and it is no part of our duty, nor is it permitted us, to delegate our duties or in any way to shirk them. We must take the responsibility of the administration of th's great service. Mr Hoban : Ye 3, you say a great deal about pleasing the settlers and this person and that. Don fc you think you ought to try to please your employes as well? Mr McKerrow : That is exactly what we are trying to do ; we are holding the balance between two contending interests.

Mr Hoban : You say you drew £63,000 out of the railways the first year ; why not spend £33,000 of that in this way ? Mr McKerrow: What I have said all along is that eight hours is reasonable for continuous labour, and ten hours for intermittent labour. We consider, that a very fair approximation to equality. Mr Hoban : But you say you tbink the demands of the great unions for eight hoars are reasonable ? Mr McKerrow : No, I said I recognised your difficulty. Mr Hoban (after some further conversation) : Well, it’s no use talking about the matter any further. We have your final answer ? Mr McKerrow : Yes. Mr Hobau : And you are willing to take the consequences ? When we get back to Christchurch, our Executive will consider the matter, but I have no doubt what will be done. Arrangements have been made, and we aro prepared. We shall instruct our Secretary to write to you, as a matter of form, offering arbitration, if you folks say you are willing to save the country expense, and we shall Bee if you are willing to stand the expense of blocking the trade of the Colony. Mr Owen : Perhaps the Commissioners see that the Shag Valley difficulty pointed out au outline of the things that may occur. Unionists do not interfere with any of your packages, aud so on. As far as we are all concerned here, as an Executive or representing an Executive, we deplore the idea, the very possibility of extreme measures—in fact, we never dreamt that it would come near such a thing; but, of oourse, when it comes to that sort of thing, you know Unionists all work together. Mr McKerrow : I should just like to ask one question. Do you think it accords with ideas of liberty to put .this sort of things before the public ? Is there much difference iu morality between the man who threatened in the Shag Point matter to which you have just referred and the burglar who comes to you with a pistol in his pocket, meets you in some lonely path and says, “I want your money; if you deliver it up quietly we will be frieuds—if you don’t I have got a pistol hero Of course I am prepared and ready to do execution.” Is there much difference in morality?” Mr Owen : I should be very sorry to -do anything of the sort. I disclaim the idea as far as I can possibly do it. Mr McKerrow : Of course I know you would not be a burglar. Mr Owen : But you must remember you have refused, arbitration. Mr McKerrow : I explained that it is beyond our power to refer any of our duties to arbitrators. We are the arbitrators—we have been appointed arbitrators by the Government, representing tho country. We are the arbitrators on all matters relating to the railway service, and it is no use going to others, or, if there be another set Parliament must appoint them—we cannot do so, or agree to co operate with them. There is a legal position in the matter. In answer to Mr Owen, Mr McKerrow said : Supposing the other set of arbitrators decided against you, you would simply have this bludgeon argument in your pocket. Mr Owen : Oh no ! Mr Hoban said, of course the Society would agree to what the arbitrators decided. Mr Winter said that arbitration was useless unless both parties agreed to abide by it. Mr McKerrow reminded the deputation that they had said they could not do other* wise than support the labour combinations who demanded eight hours. The delegates replied that they could agree to arbitration, and would have to abide by its results. Mr Winter said unionism would not allow the delegates to voluntarily accept ten hours, but they could submit to arbitration and abide by it. Referring to the comparison made by Mr McKerrow, he said they were not demanding “ money or your life,” but simply a fair share of the money dealt out by the public service. Mr McKerrow : Well, we are the representatives of the public shareholders. Mr Winter : But I am a shareholder in this matter. Mr McKerrow said there were 600,000 shareholders, and Mr Winter replied that tha railway servants were asking for an increase, not of money, but of time. Mr Maxwell said if the Commissioners agreed to arbitration or made the regulations suggested, Parliament might refuse to grant the increase of money and the alterations could not be given effect to. Mr Winter : The House was quite willing to vote a lesser amount, because you had been able to reduce the expenditure. They did not find fault and say, “ Oh, we must vote a certain amount.” Mr Hoban : Furthermore, you know as well as I do that as a matter of fact supposing the cost of the railway service to be £IOO,OOO, the money will have to be paid whether you demand it of Parliament or not. They have placed you in a position to carry on the railways, and they have to find the money. But it is not necessary to ask for the supply—if you could make

£63,000 last year, what will you make next year, with the prices of produce higher, as we hope they will be ? So it is' not a question of asking Parliament. If it were-, I do not think there would be three men against us in the House. Mr Owen said there were men in the Commissioners’ service paid for eight hours who were walking about part of the time. Mr Maxwell pointed out that the local Trades Council had asked for 66 hours fosr intermittent work. Mr Winter said the Council had repudiated that, aud the men were out on strike. Mr Owen : To accept what you offer would stultify us before the other colonies. They would say, “ These are no men at all 1 ” I can’t see how it is possible to accept 1(> hours. Take the Home country—lo hours is gone. Mr McKerrow : I don’t think it is. Mr Hobau : Perhaps we are harping too* much on this. lb’s like runniug our heads against a stone wall. The Commissioners have made up their minds, as we could see by their having their reply written out, not to give us what is fair and reasonable, or what we think so—they don’t look at it in the same light as we do. Of oourse it will simply be a question who is the strongest; when it comes to the point. I think, SB they have pushed us thus far (for there i® nothing like plain speaking in these things) we shall, have to fight it out to the bitter end. You, sir, have not answered the piecework questions as you should have done. When we suggested this, your only argument was that you feared it would reduce tho men to the “Government stroke.” If yon think that is an argument, all I can say is that I don’t think the judgment is exactlyr that of Solomon. We pointed out discrepancies and defects in thi3 system, and you admitted them, but said “it means the Government stroke.” We say you have competent foremen to look after your workmen, but in spite of that you say practically the same as you have already said. You evade it as you think fit. That is what you are doiug now. I will ask you Yes or No. If you say No, we can understand it, but here you reply in an evasive manner. Mr McKerrow read what the Commissioners proposed on the subject of picework, and suggested that the deputation should take their word for it. Iu the course of a discussion which ensued as to picework or daywork, Mr McKerrow pointed out that piecework was adopted in the greatest shops at Home. Mr Hoban suggested that they should leave England behind, for wo in New Zealand were more enlightened. Mr McKerrow : I think we are too far ahead of England in Borne cases. Mr Hoban said unionism and trade organisations were not suppressed here as they were in England. He suggested that the Commissioners should get rid of a man who did not do his work. Mr McKerrow : But he has many ties we may not oare to break. He may have a wife and family and ties of comradeship. Mr Hoban : I am sure the Government don’t consider that. Mr McKerrow said the Government service was the beat of all, and in 3pite of the disabilities spoken of, the railway service was eagerly eoughb after; the difficulty was to fend off applications from people who wanted to get their boys into it. Mr Hoban : Y es, there are some positions in the Government service that are very snug. I should like to have some myself. It was eventually decided with regard to piecework, on the suggestion of Mr Winter, that the Commissioners would abolish piecework with the exception of work that was bona fide contract work, forging and wheelmaking being mentioned as about the only cases in point. Mr Maxwell said that would enafele the Commissioners to do away with 9-10ths of the piecework. Mr McKerrow : Yes, I think we can meet you there. The question of the status of cadets was re-opened, and the Commissioners, after some discussion, agreed to oadets being reckoned as clerks, and having yearly increases accordingly after six years’ service, Mr Hoban accepted that. Mr McKerrow, in answer to Mr Winter, said the Commissioners agreed that the Taroportion of lad porters should be one to every four men porters. The Commissioners undertook to take the cases of platelayers into further consideration. . Mr Hoban : Then I understand the whole of our programme is adopted, excepting the hours of labour. Mr McKerrow : Practically, yes. Mr Hoban said, later on : I have been conferring with my colleagues, and I wish to ask you this : We should like to settle the matter amicably if possible—we don’t want to go down to Christchurch and give information to all the branches of a nature which you will compel us to do by positively refusing. Are you prepared to meet us a little further and say 54 hours shall bo a week’s work, inclusive of the concessions you have made, and we will pledge ourselves to take the proposal down and try to make the people content with it. Mr McKerrow: We will think of it.

When will you be Mr Hoban: 'Tomorrow, if possible, Mr Owen : Gentlemen, I will ask you to consider it in as favourable a light as possible. God knows we would sooner do anything than leave you in this hostile Way, for, as.on? Presideut says, it is to a certain extent hostile. We would sooner go away and. say “ They are jolly good fellows, and we got along fine with them.” I would impress upon you, fend beg you, sooner than drive the men out, as it will be now, to thoroughly consider this thing and concedeifc, If you look it over, it is only the same as what New South Wales is doing now, and they, are wanting far more. If I may ask you as emphatically as I can, and as earnestly as I can, to consider it in all its favourable points, I think I may almost say that you, as reasonable gentlemen, sooner than let things go on as you see they are likely to drift, will recognise that we are not asking you sucli a great thing, aud meet us half way. Mr McKerrow : I thought we had met you three-quarters of the way. Mr Owen said that was not so, and that the standing time was not deducted in any ipart of the world. Mr McKerrow said the Commissioners would consider the matter thoroughly and see how it would affect the finances, and give an answer by Wednesday. The delegates accordingly agreed to remain in Wellington until Wednesday to (receive the answer. Mr Hoban concluded the interview by thanking the Commissioners for the way in which they had been received and their questions discussed, and by presuming that any grievance brought up in future would also receive the Commissioners’ careful attention. Since the publication ot the reports of Saturday’s proceedings at the conference, the delegates, collectively and have received numerous communications from all parts of the Colony warmly endorsing their action. On Monday, for instance, one of the delegates got a telegram, whieh briefly but emphatically adjured him to “ hold the fort.” THE DIFFICULTY SETTLED. The Conference between the railway servants’ delegates and the Railway Commissioners was resumed on Wednesday morning. Mr McKerrow, in opening the proceedings, explained that practically everything had been settled except the question of the week’s time for drivers, firemen, and guards. The question they bad discussed was whether it should be 60 or 48 hours for a week’s work, and the delegates had made a proposal for £4hours. The Commissioners, he explained, after carefully considering the matte?, had decided to accede to this proposal. Mr Hoban thanked the Commissioners for agreeing to the proposal. He pointed out that it was only a suggestion from the delegates, and they did not wish it to affect the Eight Hours’ Bill. The delegates had tried to meet the Commissioners in the fairest possible way, and he was pleased to see that the Commissioners had acceded to their request. *This practically settled all questions, but he wished to asked one question with regard to platelayers. If a platelayer had to inspect a line before doing ordinary work he (Mr Hoban) took it that he would have to be paid. Mr McKerrow replied that this was done in some cases now, but he pointed out that it would not do to lay down a cast-iron rule upon the matter. Mr Hoban asked if the Commissioners would give the delegates a letter detailing the concessions, which they could lay before the branches of the Society. He thanked the Commissioners most heartily for the courteous manner in which they had treated the delegates, and he trusted that any future questions would be most amicably settled. Mr McKerrow said, with regard to this 54 hours, that there were exceptional cases which would have to be treated according to their merits. There were some little branch lines where it was practically impossible to carry out the concession to the letter. Mr Hoban said the delegates had admitted that there were exceptional cases, but what they wanted was to get the principle adopted. Mr Winter expressed his thanks to the Commissioners for having acceded to the delegates’ request, and he felt sure that all the railway servants would be equally grateful. Mr Owen also thanked the Commissioners for having received the delegates in such a courteous manner. Mr Hoban, referring to stationmasters and porters at outside stations, asked if thenhours of labour could be cut down, would the Commissioners do it ? Mr McKerrow : Certainly. Mr Owen asked a question with regard to locomotive men going on in the morning, and pointed out the firemen had to be on duty 45 minutes and the driver half an hour before his time counted. Mr Rotheram explained that the time counted immediately the men started traffic work. Mr Owen said he had never understood it in that way. Mr McKerrow pointed out that through some little misadventure a wrong copy of the Commissioners’ decision with regard to cleanei-B had been given to the delegates, lie explained that the latter part of the clause dealing with the matter should read “ the pay as per scale, rising 6d a day each year until it reaches 7s a day.” Mr Maxwell said the delegates must understand that this 54 hours system could not bo worked ot present. Mr Winter asked when did they propose to bring it into force. Mr Maxwell replied that it would probably be two years. In the meantime the men would have to work overtime. Mr McKerrow said the effect of the concessions would be to enhance the pay of She men. The members of the deputation having again expressed their thanks to the Commissioners for their kindness, the Conference was brought to a close. I During their stay in Wellington the dele- J

gates interviewed til's ‘management of the Wellington-Maftawatu Railway Company with regard to the concessions granted by Commissioners, urging the Company to concede the same points. The manager agreed to put th 6 matter before the Directors of the Company and let the Executive know as soon as possible what decision is come to. On the whole the Company is considered likely to meet the Executive as the Commissioners have dcie. At the suggestion of the delegates the Company have already made soma concessions, one of which consists of placing a fireman on the engine in the shunting yard. Mr Hoban. the President of the Railway Servants’ Society 7, was called on by a New Zealand Mail reporter at the Royal Hotel on Wednesday afternoon, and said : —“ The proposals whieh the Commissioners have now agreed to make —54 hours —— Will be placed before the Society when we return to Christchurch. We have no power, of course, to accept it, but I think the Society will accept it, because it is very reasonable. There are certain points to be settled yet with respect to platelayers and stationmasters, and I think the Commissioners will do all in their power to meet us there. In fact, in some respects they have begun already, for we have received a telegram from Dunedin s >ying that instructions have been given there to stop excessive boy labour. Of course, we are aware that these things will take time to accomplish. We should like yon to mention how grateful we are for the generous treatment we have received everywhere. The Commissioners and the Manawatu Railway Company have given us free passes over their lines, the press has reported us accurately and fairly, and Mr McCarthy, the host of this hotel, has been very hospitable. We are highly pleased with our treatment in Wellington altogether. The Commissioners, furthermore, have met U 3 in a very generous spirit (and their tone generally has given us a new idea of them) with respect to the railways employes on the deputation. All those employes will get pay for the time they have been here and a liberal allowance for travelling expenses. (per press assoctation.l Christchurch, June 19. The members of the Railway Society purpose entertaining their delegates at a dinner on their return from Wellington. THE TRAMWAY DIFFICULTY. The Trades and Labour Council received the following memorandum from the proprietors of the Tramway : “Wellington, June 3, 1890. “My dear Sir, —As you are about to refer my scheme to the secret council I am anxious to put before you the reasons why— in my opinion—the Union should be very considerate to the tramway in the matter of hours and wages. “ Ist. The hours should be twelve daily, with two hours off for meals ; (a) because otherwise there will be no profits to divide for the necessary increase of hands ; (b) the American tram hours of labour will be found to be twelve ; (c) because this is a kind of labour always sought after in towns. “ 2nd. The weekly wages should be £2 5s for a week of 7 days ; (a) otherwise we cannot afford to ran on a Sunday, and the men will lose by this an average of £32 per month ; (b) we will lose nothing, because it always pays to give horses an entire rest one day in the week; (e) the public will be furious at the loss of itß Sunday outing, for the working classes and women and children are desirous of sunning themselves ; (d) if the position is made too rosy for the men and the public is denied its Sunday ride,the public will refuse to pay the increased fares and you will have another company started. “ 3rd. Ib will not do to insist on the wages of the supers being materially increased ; (a) because it is necessary to have an easy and ready promotion for the guards, otherwise they will not remain in the service ; (b) bocause if the supers’ wage is the same as the grooms’ the supers must do men’s work, and the number of hands must be diminished ; (c) because the success of the work depends on every man knowing perfectly every branch of the work, and that can only be when promotion goes in the stable. It is important you should understand our profit and loss account (monthly) shows the whole cost of running-—-the maintenance of way, renewals and repairs, &c. It is our custom to keep the who e of our plant in perfoct order, and to charge the expenditure as it arises to the month in which ib arises. This makes the apparent cost of running varv, yefc on the average it is uniform. Thus you will see that the purchase of new plant, unless in as far as it is balanced by the sale of old plant, has to be charged to capital account. In order to enable us to meet that charge on capital account, the balance of the earnings has to corne to us—when the reasonable demands of labour, as defined by mo, are provided for—otherwise the business would either be starved for plant, or we be ruined.

“You will realise this at once when I remind you that 5 per cent is the interest we ask in the first instance for our capital, whilst we are paying a higher rate. “ My scheme was drafted in an impartial spirit. Its parts are dependent on each other, and I feel certain it cannot be materially altered. Partnerships are difficult at. all times ; a partnership of this kind is exceptionally difficult, because its success depends not only on the good sense and good faith of the contracting parties, but on the caprices of the public. “ Very truly yours, “Morgan S. Grace. “ D P. Fisher, Esq., “Sec. Federated Trades Union Council.” “ memorandum : “Let the Union influence the Wellington ’Bus Company to draw off the road. Let the Wellington ’Bus Company store its cars and turn out its horses, holding them in readiness to keep a check on the Tramway Company. Let the Tramway Company pay the interest of the ’Bus Company’s overdraft so long as there is no opposition running oq the road, Let the Tramway

Company issue to the Union as many through tickets at each as the Union may require, these tickets to be used only on workmen’s cars. Let a monthly profit andloss account be struck in the tramway office, the same that is now regularly furnished to the proprietoi-3. Let the Union alter its rule, so a 3 to put drivers, guards, and grooms all on the same footing as to hours of labour. That is, let the Union rule for grooms apply to all alike, in regard to hours of labour. Let the wage all round remain as ib is for the present, the Union being satisfied for the present with a diminution of hours of labour for the drivers and guards. Let 5 per cent of the profits be paid to Greenfield aud Grace on the amount of their owu capital invested in the business. Let the profits over 5 per cent go to pay extra hands to take up the work left over by the proposed diminution of hours of labour now done by the drivers and guards. As the profits over -5 per cenii grow, let the wages of the tramway hands geuerally be increased till they have rea.ohed a fair standard. In case of the margin of the profit over 5 per cont on the capital proving insufficient to continue these advances to the men, let the Union agree to draw off when in proportion to the shrinkage of the profit, and allow the remaining hands to make up the work, until the returns justify expansion anew. Let all profits over these so agreed to be disposed of go to the proprietors. Let the Wellington Tramway Company give all vacancies to the discharged servants of the Wellington ’Bus Company. Let the Wellington Tramway Company retain the control of its own men and be the sole'judge of their fitness or unfitness for the work.” It was announced at last night week’s meeting of the Trades and Labour Council that the Wharf Garters and Expressmen’s Unions had agreed to run vehicles conveying passengers free of charge from town to the tram terminus between the hours of 5 and 6 p.m, The announcement was received with great applause. At the meeting of the Federated Trades and Labour Council last night week it was decided that all the delegates should take up shares in the Co operative ’Bus Company. FEDERATED TRADES UNION DEMONSTRATION. In response to the invitation of the Federated Trades Union Council a large and enthusiastic gathering of unionists took place at the Exchange Hall last Friday night. Representatives of the press were excluded, but despite that fact we are in a position to give some idea of the proceedings. The first speaker introduced by the Chairman was a gentleman whose enthusiasm in social and religious as well as in union matters i 3 pretty well known. He began with an elaborate apology for appearing in a dress suit, the wearing of which he explained was owing to a desire on his part to kill two birds with one Btone ; in other words, he had to fulfil a social engagement, and desired also to address that meeting. As a member of the Trades Council ha had been so much engrossed with union work—often, with the other members, burning the midnight oil—that his children had even complained that they only saw him at breakfast time. The tramway difficulty had been a deep source of anxiety to the Council, and instead, as had been stated, of tbe Council ordering severe measures without due consideration, he could assure his hearers that many weary hours had been spent in exhaustive deliberation.' Having entered on the struggle he urged the unionists to conduct themselves like men, strongly counselling moderation, and quoted Polonius’ advice to Laertes, “Bewareof entrance to a quarrel, but being in, bear it that the opposer may beware of thee.” He concluded his remarks by asserting that the present step taken of calling out the tramway employes (in deference to their own earnest appeal) was a mere Bkirncish to what would follow if the unions were compelled to adopt harsher measures. The speaker was frequently applauded during his remarks. His successor, a less polished speaker, referred to the fact that the Federated Trades Council represented 17 separate unions, comprising 1500 workmen, exclusive of course of families and connections. He urged those present to give their support to the ’Bus Company, which, he explained, was worked on thoroughly Democratic principles, inasmuch as the Company would not run an extra’bus until they had a sufficient number of shareholders to guarantee its success as a paying concern. This he considered a firmer financial basis than having a long banking auoount. This speaker also quoted Shakespeare to support his views, aud coileluded his remarks with an appeal for unity of action. The succeeding speaker recounted the negotiations between the Trades Council and the tramway proprietors, aDd referred sarcastically to Dr. Grace’s offer to show the deputation the Company’s books or to “toss up” for the whole concern. He also urged unionists to take up shares in the ’Bus Company, and pointed out that by adopting this course they would really be returning good for evil ; for,Jins the proprietors stated that they had lost money during the last thirteen Oie Unionists would, by patronising the ’buses, actually be saving wear and tear to the tramway, and thus save the proprietors expense. This delicate piece of sarcasm elicited considerable laughter, as also did the speaker’s remarks in reference to Dr Grace’s warm eulogy on the splendid staff of employes he had and his desire to retain them—but with no alteration to pay or working hours. The speaker then said that the ’Bus Company had offered to take on as soon as possible the hands that had left the Tramway Company, and he also warmly supported the proposal for taking up ’Bus Company shares, as by this means the hands on strike would the quicker obtain employment. Already a number of them had obtained work, and ic was estimated that £25 would cover the weekly expense of maintaining th 9 men on strike. It was not thought necessary to call for outside assistance in the present difficulty, but power would have to

be given the Council to impose a levy. Several other speakers addressed the meeting on the benefits of unionism generally, while others advocated the starting of a paper in the working class interests, seeing that a section of the local press had entirely misrepresented the unions. Ultimately the following resolutions were carried with more or less enthusiasm : “ That this meeting views with satisfaction the reluctance with which the Federated Trades Union Council called out the Tram Company’s employes.” ‘‘That this meeting is entirely satisfied with the just arid reasonable demands made by tbe Tram Company employ 63 through the Federated Trades Union Council.” “ That this meeting, whilst pledging itself to assist the Council by every legitimate means to carry this dispute to a successful issue, would at che same time earnestly advise that the Council should be ready and willing at any time to affect a peaceful solution of the difficulty.” “ That this meeting pledges itself to use every influence to induce unionists and workingmen generally to take one share each in the Co-operative 'Bus Company.” “ That this meeting will pledge itself to refrain from riding on the Tram Company’s cars and support the ’Bus Company.” A vote of thanks was awarded the delegates of the Council, and a resolution expressing condolence with Mr D. P. Fisher, secretary of the Council, who is at present laid up, was also passed. At the conclusion of the meeting a numbes of shares in the ’Bus Company were taken up. 1 We are informed that several hundred shares have been applied for. The tramway strike is passing along fairly peaceably. There were a few cases in which obstructions were placed on the rails, and it is reported that a rail from one of the sidings has been removed. A large amount of chaff has been indulged in, and mud, ancient eggs, and other sundry missiles have been flung at the new drivers, but there have been no signs of . any serious intimidation. The police have been doing special duty to prevent any breaches of the peace, but up to the present their duties have been of the lightest kind. Many owners of expresses have placed their services gratuitously before the public and have been giving free rides to Newtown in the evenings. Instructions have been given to Messrs Rouse and Hurrell for the construction of additional plant for the Co-operative ’Bus Company. The order is to be completed in a month. The now vehicles will be built according to designs supplied by the Chairman of the Company, and they are considered to be a great improvement upon those that are at present in use. TO THE EDITOR OF THE NEW ZEALAND TIMES. Sin, —I see that in this morning’s paper you suggest that even now the difficulty between the Union and the Tramway might be amicably settled. A satisfactory settlement is not even difficult. Let the Union, instead of being angry with us for keeping up with manly vigour our end of the stick, buy the tramway. It is an excellent property, and they shall have it at quite a reasonable figure.—l am, &c., Morgan S. Grace. June 20fch.