THE TOLLGATE QUESTION.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 942, 21 March 1890, Page 1 (Supplement)

THE TOLLGATE QUESTION.

tg MEETING AT THE HUI'T. A largely attended meeting of pet sons interested iu this question was held at the Oddfellows’ Hall, Lower Hutt, on Saturday evening. Mr W. J. Rout was voted to the chair and briefly explained the object of the meeting. Mr H. Cunningham, who convened the meeting, explained that he had done so at the request of the previous meeting. He believed the County Councillors had decided to hold ajmeeting next week, though they would not show themselves here, which was the least they could do. They would not attend a meeting convened by the travelling public, but expected the public to go to meet them. He didn’t think that was fair. (Applause.) The Chairman remarked that the resolution passed at the last meeting asked Councillors to attend this me“ting. Mr Kilminster said the last meeting aßked the Councillors to resign. The sooner they got shut of that lot the better. (Applause.) Hare Parata, a Maori of stern countenance, was the next speaker. Following is a verbatim report of his remarks:—“No good the tollgate, Kaiwhara.” (Cheers.) He subsequently rose again, and spoke very fluently in his‘own language. The Chairman, after a Lhort delay, said he understood the Council considered they had given sufficient notice of their intention to collect the tolls. The people must not delade themselves with the idea that the Council ware not going on. Mr H. Parata made another speech, the effect of which was that the Maoris did not believe in the tollgate at Kaiwhara, and thought it ought to be done away with. He then danced a few steps of the Maori hornpipe, and resumed his seat amidst admiring cheers. Mr Cheetham pointed out the hardship in which people in a small way of business, or on small areas of land, laboured in order to find charitable aid and revenue. Yet he was told that out of their revenue of £2OOO the Council spent £9OO a year in expenses ! This, if true, was “ a frightful thing to contemplate.” (Applause.) Ihe Chairman said it was certain that this revenue came out of the pockets of those who could least afford it. (Hear, bear.) Mr Parata, who had been out in the night air to refresh himself, made his reap, pearance at this juncture, and vehemently denounced the tollgate in the name of Te Whiti, Titokowarn and Wi Tako. Mr Daßosa said the local bodies could not keep paying charitable aid ; what he blamed them for was the sly way in which they had started the gates again. He maintained that those who destroyed the gates had a perfect right to do so. (Applause.) Sir Robert Stout said they had. The Government, he remarked, made £27 a week by milk traffic. “ He was a deep-water fish, the Government, and he didn’t want to lose that £27, so he kept the tollgate to help him.” (Applause.) Mr Mellow said the meeting was like a a ship in a fog, no notice having been taken of their previous resolutions. He almost felt inclined to move that they hold a separate meeting on Tuesday evening instead of going to that called by the Councillors. At the suggestion of the Chairman he moved that the meeting adjourn till Tuesday evening. Mr H. Cunningham moved as an amendment, “ That this meeting treats the members of the County Council with the same contempt as they have treated us.” He expressed an opinion that the district Councillors were politically damned. (Applause.) Mr Da Rosa was willing to treat the Councillors with contempt, but thought it better to have them there and “ have a good go in and ram them through the door.” (Laughter.) Mr Mellow’s motion was carried unanimously, and the meeting concluded with a vote of thanks to the ohair. COUNTY COUNCILLORS BEFORE THEIR CONSTITUENTS. The meeting called by Messrs Brown and Speedy, of the Hutt County Council, at the Oddfellows’ Hall, Lower Hutt, Tuesday, was largely attended. Messrs F. Darby and J. YVakeham, also members of the Council, occupied seats on the platform with Messrs Brown and Speedy. A difficulty was experienced at the outset in appointing a chairman. Mr Wyles was nominated, but refused to act, and Mr Brown, being County Chairman, was also named, but declined, suggesting at the same time that Mr J. Carley should take the chair. Mr G. H. Scales was then nominated by abont a dozen people, but Mr Brown objected on the ground that Mr Scales had taken sn important part iH previous meetings on this question. The audience insisted on Mr Scales taking the chair, and Mr Poole, of Ngauranga, protested that Mr Brown had insulted that gentleman. Eventually Mr Seales took the chair, and, in doing so, said he had not taken an active part ia previous meetinga. He trusted the Councillors would have a fair hearing as well a 3 anyone opposed to them. (Applause.) Mr Brown, who was the first Councillor to speak, said he considered the press, especially the Post, “ had taken a one-sided action ” all though. (Uproar.) As to the Premier delaying the proclamation of Onslow to “ aid and abet this nice little scheme,” it had been said the Government ought to be ashamed of themselves. (Voices : “ So they ought.”)

So t’opy »ojl«i if thpy had done what was said. For hun-oif. he declared that he had always done h:s best in the interests of the ratepayers. (Mr Archer: Not on this tollgate question.) Hs was coming to that. Mr Brown proceeded to refer to the deputa! tion Wallins' on the Premier from the Council, and said the clerk of the Council denied that he had ever told anyone that a promise had been given by the Premier tc delay the proclamation ; and for his own part he (Mr Brown) said the Premier never gave him such a promise. No such word aB tollgate was mentioned between them, and the Premier had acted throughout as an honest and straightforward man. As to the amount of money collected at the tollgate, he denied that a large portion of it wa3 paid In charitable aid. £684 was paid in oharitable aid, and £855 for the hospital, and all was paid out of revenue derived from other sources, nai ely, publicans’ licenses, £247 ; slaughter, ing licenses, £255 ; and subsidy, £4l4—a total revenue of £916. Not a penny of the tollgate money was spent on charitable aid ; and he thought the way they paid it was better than a rate, though a rate would, he believed, have to be struck eventually. (Applause.) The Council had tried on a ' previous occasion to reduce the charges, but found they were unable to do so. As to the tollgate at Ngauranga, it was a very nice little point whether or not it was legal —a nice point for the lawyers. The Council, he remarked, was advised all through by Mr Travers, who was about as Bound on the goose as any of them. (A voice : “ Did he advise you to stay away from the meetings?”) Did not the meeting think it would be better to strike a rate over the i whole county boroughß, town boards, and everything else? (Applause.) Legislation would have to be obtained for the purpose. Did they think for a moment that those gates were to be thrown on one side. (Cries of “ Yes ” aDd “ I hope so.”) The fact was it was self with all of them. (A voice: “Of course it is; that’s what brings us here.”) It was a question of ponnds shillings, and pence. (A voice : “ It doesn’t cost Brown much. Yon never use the tollgate.”) He was ready to assist in making a general rate. (Mr Cunningham : “ You said that 12 months ago.”) Mr Brown : That will do, Mr Cunningham ; we’ve had enough of yon. (Laughter.) He went on to point out that the Lower Hutt might become a borough, and possibly .Tohneonville. Who was then to maintain the road, the tollgate being abolished? The upcountry settlers, by a rate of perhaps a penny. That would be a worse fix than ever, and the up-country settlers would retaliate by putting a tollgate up between Ngauranga and Pitone. They would have the Hntt people like rats in a trap, bound to find charitable aid as well as pay toll. He. declared that he and his oolleages were willing to strike a rate over the whole county, and when that was done they could abolish the toll—not before. He was opposed to a toll, but in favour of a just and equitable tax. It affected him as much as others, because his carts going to town had to pay toll; but if the people considered their interests they would not oppose the tollgate. In conclusion, Mr Brown said he and his colleague (Mr Speedy) were willing to answer any questions that might be put. (Applause.) Mr D. Speedy said the Council was determined to uphold the gate until legislation could be passed to give other means of revenue, as Mr Brown had suggested. If a majority of the ratepayers called on him he was willing to resign. But supposing two men who were opposed to the gate were put in, what could they do ? It would still be five to four in the Council. He corrected Mr Brown with respect to charitable aid. The total sum spent on hospitals and charitable I"aid was £618—£346 on hospitals and £272 on charitable aid. None of that came out of the tollgate revenue ; and he maintained that a majority of ratepayers were not opposed to tbe toll. (Applause.) Mr John Wakeman remarked that He had long been of opinion that a light rate should' be strnok on the whole county in preference to a toll, but, being the representative of an outlying district, he did not come to propose it. Moreover, the Hutt—the aistriot most concerned—had members of its own to take the initiative. With respect to the gates recently erected, they were thus able to tax stock brought down from the Wairarapa and West Coast, which did a good deal of harm to the roads. (A. voice : “ And ~ wa’ve got to pay.”) Yes, they had if the gateß were abolished. In answer to a question, “How far do you drive your stock?” Mr Wakeham said only as far as the Gear Company, and that only took in the county road from the bridge to Mr Barber’s. (A \oice : “That’s where the tollgate ought to be then.”) He was willing to pay a fair share of the cost, but he did not think it was fair for the boroughs to esoape taxation. (Applause.) Mr F. Darby said they could expeot ■ nothing but a tollgate now the district was cut up into boroughs and town boards. (Laughter.) He would resign if called npon, but only to stand again. (Applause.) The Chairman said the Councillors wera willing to answer questions. Mr Russell asked out of what fund the £SO a year paid to the Chairman was taken. I —Mr Brown said it had been reduced to £SO since he took office, and he considered it a *; very small amount for the abnße he got. ' (Laughter and cheers.) The money came out of the roads vote. Mr Russell said Mr Brown promised when/ he was elected to do all he could to abolish the tollgate. M r Mellow corroborated thitV and Mr Brown said he was prepared to doaway with the tollgate if a fair and equitable means of taxation was substituted. (Applause.) In answer to Mr F. Cooper, Mr Brown

said he ccmlcl not say what revenue was expected from the gate between iNgauranga and Johnsonville. ... Mr Cunningham twitted Mr Brown with not knowing anything about it. Mr Brown Baid he. believed is would cost about £IOO a year to maintain the gate, and the revenue would be £SOO to £6OO a .V e ‘ u ‘ He didn’t wish to evade the question, hot thought Mr Darby, as member tor that distrier, should be asked. Mr Rosa handed in an account ot the Council’s receipts and expenditure for ISBb, and took advantage of the incident to denounce thQ tollgate. ~ Mr Brown, in answer to Mr Tilbury, said the tollgate was fair and just until another means of taxation was devised. , Mr Rosa again attacked the tollgate, and said Mr Speedy had had a lot of tollgate money in his time. . Mr Tilbury said they were charging Wellington people Is to come out hereto get Mr Buck asked why the tollgate was not nut up on this side of Ngauranga so as to Ltch P stock going to the Wellington Meat Company’s works. ~ Mr Brown said if he could, he would be quite willing to tax the Company a stock If, however, the gate was put on that side the cattle could get iu free. Mr Speedy said the reason why the gate was put on that side was that everything would go into Wellington free otherwise Mr Ward said all the stock from tins side went in free as it was ; and any man who supported that was not fit to be a member of the Counoil. (Applause.) Mr Cunningham also objected that the Wairarapa stock got to Ngauranga free. Mr Brown : Then we had better have 40 tollgates. (Applause.) . Mr Buck, sen., obtaining a hearing with difficulty, protested against the question being decided by a meeting that was not comprised of ratepayers. Mr Brown said the question could only be decided through the ballot box. Mr Russell suggested that they should abolish the County Council ana merge into the District Road Board. The members of the Board got no travelling expenses. (Langhter and applause.) With another farthing in the £ the Board could maintain the road. Mr Darby replied that it could bo done by petition. . . Mr Russell then moved a motion m favour of the county merging into the Wellington District Rdad Board, and of calling a special meeting for that purpose shortly. The Chairman held that this could only be passed in conjunction with something dealing with the business for which the meeting was called. - _ ~ Mr Brown, in answer to Mr Russell, said he believed the Gounoil had not forfeited its right to a tollgate. . . Mr F. Cooper moved that in the opinion of this meeting the collection of by toll is objectionable, expensive, and obsolete ; and also that necessary revenue for maintenance of roads, &c.,'should bo raised by special rate. Mr Archer seconded the motion. Mr Routley moved as an amendment that the tolls be collected until the boroughs do, by Act of Parliameut, pay their jußt share of the expenditure. (Groans.) Mr Trevethick seconded the amendment. Mr 11. Cunningham moved as a further amendment, that the Councillors for thi3 district be asked to resign, but withdrew Mr Routley's amendment was lost, and Mr Cooper’s motion carried. The meeting terminated with “ three cheere for Captain Seales.”