PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 826, 30 December 1887, Page 29

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. THURSDAY, DECEMBER 22. The Speaker took the chair at IT o’clock. FISHERIES CONSERVATION BILL. The Fisheries Conservation Bill was re--ceived back from the House of Representstives with a alight amendment, which was -concurred in. * governor’s salary bill. A message was received from the Governor informing the Council that his Excellency had reserved the Governor’s Salary Bill, whioh had passed both branches of the Legislature, for Her Majesty’s assent. FIRST READINGS. The following Bills were received from the House of 'Representatives and read a first time, and the second readings were ordered to be taken at 2 30 p.m.:—Public Revenues Bill, Midland Railway Bill, and the Property Tax Bill. The Council, at 11.15, adjourned to 2.30. AFTERNOON SITTING. The Council resumed at 2.30 p.m. SHEEP ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr Stevens moved that the amendments -of the House of Representatives in this Bill be concurred in, and explained that the principal amendments referred to the debarring of fiockowpers from receiving compensation for the destruction of their flocks, should the fact of their sheep being infected have been wilfully concealed from the inspectors. J The amendment was agreed to. POBLIC RESERVES BILL. Mr Stevens moved the second reading of thiß Bill, which was agreed to. The Bill was committed, reported, aod passed all -finaljStageß. ' MIDLAND RAILWAY BILL. The Attorney-General, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said that the Bill had been framed so as to confer certain running powers on the Company over the line. He desired to point out that the Company were obliged by the Bill to commence the construction of the line at three different points, and therefore the Government considered the concession asked for in the Bill should be granted. , Mr Waterhouse trusted the Colony would experience no further loss than it had already sustained by this fresh concession. He should like to ascertain from the Government what loss this new concession would, entail to the State. The Attorney-General did not apprehend that any los3 would be entailed, but should there be any it " would De a very trifling one. Mr Waterhouse said he coaid bat view the Bill with alarm, as he feared other V concessions ” would'inevitably follow those already granted. However, he did not intend to oppose the Bill. The Bill was read a second time. GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS BILL. A message was received from the House of Representati res announcing that the House had agreed to an amendment in the Government Railways Bill, the same embodying a resolution to the effect that the salary of the Chief Commissioner should pot exceed £2500 per annum. The Attorney-General moved that the amendment be agreed to, so that a suitable person might be obtained either through the Agent-General or lrom one of the colonies. Mr Buckley trusted that the amendment would not be agre-d to, as he considered that a good man at a much smaller salary than that proposed might be obtained in . the Colony. Mr Pharazyn, while he regarded the Bill much in the light of experimental legislatiou, would not opvose the amendment. Mr Waterhouse thought the responsibility should be left with the Government, and consequently he would not oppose the Bill. But while he said this, he trusted the Government would endeavor to obtain a euitable man in the Colony. Mr Bonar coincided with the remarks of Mr Waterhouse. The Attorney-General declined to accept any responsibility in the matter, as any such responsibility must rest with the Legislature. Every possible effort would be made by the Government to obtain ■ the beat man either within or outside the Colony. The amendment wias agreed to on the voices. property tax bill. The Attorney-General moved the second reading of the Property Tax Bill. The motion was agreed to on the voices and without debate. The Bill was committed, reported and read a third time, and passed. MIDLAND RAILWAY CONTRACT BILL. The Council went into committee on the . Midland Railway Bill. The AttorneyGeneral, on clause 3, moved an amendment embodying the resolution sent down from the House of Representatives relative to the increase in the Chief Commissioner’s salary. The amendment was agreed to. The Bill as amended was reported, read a third time, and passed. PUBLIC BODIES POWERS AMENDMENT BILL. An amendment in the Public Bodies Powers Bill was transmitted from the House ■of Representatives and agreed to. The Conncil, at 3.40, adjourned to 7.30. EVENING SITTING. The Council resumed at 7-30, and adjourned immediately to 8.30. NAVAL DEFENCE BILL. The Council resumed at 8.30. The Australasian Naval Defence Bill was received from the House of Representatives, and read a first time on the motion of the Attorney-General. The Council adjourned to 9.30. The Council resumed at 9.30. t The Attorney-General moved the second reading of the Australasian Naval Defence Bill. Mr Bonar expressed his entire approval of the [Bill. It was only a fair thing that the Colony should be called upon to protect their own maritime commerce. It should be recollected that the Colony was a fairly responsible child of the Empire, and as the Bill was a reasonable one, so far as self protection was concerned, the Conncil oould not but pass the Bill. With regard

to the caloniesi which had not accepted the proposition for self-defence, he could only say that the time was in the immediate fntnre when the colonies which were not in the scheme would very speedily join in it. Mr Hart cordially supported the Bill, even if only from a matter of insurance. Mr Pharazyn aBo supported the, motion for the second reading, but while doing so he regretted that domestic measures in another place had prevented the Bill from being brought down earlier in the session. It had been stated that had the provisions of the Bill been brought before the country at the late elections the verdict of the people would have been adverse to the Bill. This, however, was not his opinion, as he believed that it would be an act of meanness on the part of the Colony if the country did not cheerfully agree to assist the Mother Country in the defenoe of the Colony. As a matter of mere assurance, it was but prudent, as Mr Hart had said, that the Colony should pay its quota toward the defence of the Australasian colonies. But quite apart from this, he believed that, if only as a matter of sentiment of the federation of the Empire, the passing of the Bill would materially effect a grand nnion, even if it were regarded from a mere pounds, shillings, and pence point of view. Nor would the; union for defence purposes on the part of the colonies have a bad effeot, whether the Bill was regarded in the light of mere defence of the colonies or from a commercial aspect. Mir Shephard regretted that the Council in the very last hoars of the session had been called upon to decide a most momentous question. The matter to be decided must not be regarded from a sentimental point of view. What, he would ask, bad the Colony to do with the wars and quarrels of the Old World ? Without regard to sentiment, the only thing the Council had to consider was the safety of its people and commerce. The question had been left too late in the session, and should not in its last hours be attempted to be hurried through. He moved the adjourhment of the debate, as he did not believe in the Colony heiDg called upon to interfere with the politics and quarrels of the Mother Country. The Attorney-General, after listening to the speech of Mr Shepherd, was both surprised and disgusted. The Colony was not asked to enter iato the quarrels of the Old Country, bat was only asked to defend themselves as against possible aggression, and he trusted and believed that Mr Shephard woald be the only black sheep in the Council.

The question was agreed to on the voices. The Bill was committed and reported without amendments. On the motion for the third reading Mr Shephard said that he would in the future, as in the past, always claim his right to express his opinions. He had not objected to the Bill, bat merely to the Bill being harried through at such a late stage of the session. Mr Richmond took occasion to express his support of the Bill, which he imagined, as long as they had the blood _of Englishmen coursing through their veins, they must agree to. The Bill was read a third time and passed. NEW ZEALAND LOAN ACT BILL..

The New Zealand Loan Act Bill was received from the House oF Representatives, read a first and second time, committed aud reported, and passed all final atageß. The Council "at 10.30 adjourned.

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 23. The Council resumed at 3.5 a. m. PUBLIC WORKS APPROPRIATION BILL. Tha Public Works Appropriation Bill was received, read a first aud second time, and passed. THE APPROPRIATION BILL. The Apprdpriation Bill was received, read a first and second time, aud passed all final stages. The Council adjourned at 3.20 a.m. ti 114,45, when a message was received from his Excellency the Governor giving his assent to a number of Bills, including the]Appropriation Bill. The Attorney-General then moved that the Council, at its rising, do adjonrn to Tuesday next, explaining that the arrangement by the Government was that the prorogation should take place that day (Friday) by proclamation. The Council, at 4 50, adjourned accordingly.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

' THURSDAY, DECEMBER 22. The House met at 11 a.m. GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS BILL.

ThisJßill was received by message from the Governor, with an amendment allowing the Government to pay the Chief Commissioner a salary of £2500. , The Minister for Poblic Works explained that the Government would nob pay the full limit if it was possible to get an officer for less. A discussion ensued, in the course of which Dr Fitchett intimated his intention of moving in committee to reduce the maximum salary to £1750. A number of members opposed the increase on the ground that a first-class man could not be obtained even at this salary; and that in any case there was plenty of talent available in the Colony. The Premier said it was of the last importance that a good officer should be obtained for the Chief Commissionership, and he promised the House that no appointment would be made without the most oareful consideration. The message was referred to the Committee of the whole House. The House adjourned at 2.10 till 3 o'clock. Eventually the message was considered in committee. A number of amendments to reduce the amount were moved, but were all lost, and the resolution as recommended in the message was carried by 22 to 10. AUSTRALASIAN NAVAL DEFENCE BILL. The Premier, in moving the second reading of this Bill, expressed regret that the Bill had not been brought up earlier. The Bill appeared to him to be the first real step In uniting the Colony with the Old Country. To his mind it wa3 impossible that relations could continue muoh longer aB at present ; we must either separate from or draw nearer to the British Enipire. The former he regarded as a very undesirable contingency, The difficulty in uniting, however, was with the people at Home, who were not yet awake to it, and he contended that when it

was found that the colonies were contributing to the cost of the fleets in these seas, those people would ask whether under such circumstances we should hot have a voice in the affairs of the Empire. Taking it for granted that it was desirable that we should be a part of the Empire, was it not fair that we, as a people better able to meet ( taxation than the larger portion of its citizens, should we not do so ? The proposition was that there should be seven ships, five cruisers and two torpedo boats, paid for by the colonies, of the best possible class for the work to be done. The total estimated oost was about £700,000, and it was proposed that the Imperial Government should tin d the money for the ships, and the colonies should pay 10 per cent on it for 5 years, namely £35,000 ; the colonies would also pay the , cost of crews, not exceeding £91,000, and the total cost to the colonies would thus be £126,000, Two ships would always remain in New Zealand waters, and that would be a considerable gain to ns. He explained that the reason he was now asking the House to pass the Bill was that it would take two years to build the ships. The contribution to the cost was in proportion to the population of the colonies, whioh would frnake it as follows :—Queensland, £12,578 ; New South Woles, £36,B4oVictoria, £36,820; South Australia, £11,500 ;Western Australia, £1485; Tasmania, £5445 ; New Zealand, £21,672. He would propose a provision in the Bill that New Zealand’s contr'butiou should only be on the basis of all the colonies contributing. Speaking on the question of land defences, he said that while he agreed with what the late Government had done, still he thought it a question whether they should go on fortifying all the ports or only one, so as to give a safe harbor of refuge. However, he only mentioned that as the idea of the Government. He hoped, in conclusion, that the House would see its way to assent in the Bill. He did not for a moment think it was possible for the Colony to remain neutral in the event of war.

Sir Julius Y ogel supported the Bill. He shared the idea of wishing to see the Empire federated, but did not know that this Bill would further it. He was of opinion that Great Britain was not far off a system of protection, and when that came the question would be whether preference should, be given to the colonies, and that he considered more likely to efface federation. He deprecated the tone taken by the Premier, and said the late Government was willing to pay for the maintenance of two ships, but not toward the cost of the defenoe of the Empire unless all the colonies were drawn in, and it was not fair that these colonies should be singled out to contribute in this way when the Crown colonies were not.

Mr Hutchinson and Mr Guinness protested against proceeding with the measure at such a stage as this, ! Sir George Grey asked to see the list of pairs on this measure of members who had gone away. This being refused by the Premier (who said the pairs would no doubt be posted after division,' though he had nothing to do with them), Sir George moved the adjournment of the debate in order to speak at some length on the matter. The motion for adjournment was lost by 31 to 5.

The second reading was agreed to on the voices.

The Bill was then committed. In clause 4, referring to contributions on the population basis, the word “ European ” was inserted before “population.” A new clause was moved by the Premier, providing that if any of the other colonies stood out New Zealand should only pay a contribution on the same proportion as if all the colonies paid their proportion.—Mr Fitzherbert objected to the clause, and said the Imperial Government would do nothing unless the liability of the colonies was a joint and several one.—The Premier said that, much as he desired the Bill, he would not dare to ask the Colony to pay £126,000 a year.—Mr Fitzherbert called for a division on the question that the clause be added to the Bill, but as he could not get another teller there could be no division, and the clause was agreed to. The House adjourned till 7.30.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. AUSTRALASIAN NAVAL DEFENCES BILL. This Bill was passed through its final stages. LOAN BILL. The Loan Bill was received by message with alterations as follows :—Part 1. insert Immigration, £70,000, unallotted ; Part 3, insert Blenheim-Awatere, £9OOO. The Bill was then committed. A new clause was moved by the Premier, providing that no money should be borrowed beyond present engagements for thres years.—A long discussion ensued, Sir Julius Vogel opposing the clause as being childish in the sxtreme.—The Premier, speaking later on, differed from Sir Julius Vogel, and said that there was no fear for the Colony if we made it perfectly clear what our position was. He remarked that New Zealand stocks were going up, and would no doubt have gone up much more before pext session.—An amendment to insert the names fof the Westport and Greymouth Harbor Bills as among the present, engagements (under which money could be borrowed) was agreed to. The clause was adopted by 27 to 19.

A point of order was raised by Sir Julius Vogel as to whether the votes tion and the Blenheim-Awatere bridge, having been struck out, could be inserted. He held that they should be brought down as additions instead of substitutioss. The Chairman ruled that he was not responsible for the Governor’s message. The Bill was then reported with amendments.

Sir Julius Vogel asked for the Speaker’s ruling on the point he had raised. The Speaker said the proceedings were quite regular. Sir Julius Vogel announced his intention of taking advice on the matter, and said that if be found his contention was correct he should test it in the Supreme Court. The Bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion fixing the title, Sir Julius Vogel moved to alter the title to Immigration and Loan Bill. — Lost by 27 to 12.'—-Sir Julius Vogel then moved to add to the title the words “ aud for stopping future borrow-

ing.”—This was not seconded* and lapsed. The title was then agreed to. SUPPLEMENTARY' ESTIMATES. The - Supplementary Estimates were received by message. ■Sir Julius Vogel said the Estimates were simply a reversal of the retrenchment proposals of the Government. He referred specially to the vote of £20,000 for the Wellington Post-office. If there was to be no clock tower, he said, the building conld be put up for £13,000, and a clock tower would only cost £3OOO additional. How, then, was this £20,000 to be spent, unless it was proposed to introduce into the buildiDg some rare work of art, which the Colony could not afford at this time. The late Government proposed that the tower should not be ereoted now, but that the building should be so bonstrueted to allow of a tower being added at a future time when the Government had funds for the purpose of beautifying the architecture of the Colony. The Premier, in the course of reply, said that in the Defence Department a vote of £SOOO for arms and ammunition had been exceeded by the late Government by £BOOO : and that, he said, was the sort of thing found everywhere. The Estimates were consideredfin Committee of Supply. , / \ Immigration, £IO,OOO (necessary to meet liabilities)., Agreed to. . j Colonial Secretary, £7723. Sir Julius Vogel asked for information as to the Mel-' boure Centennial Exhibition vote, £3500. The Premier said it was proposed to apply for space and to ask Dr Hector to represent New Zealand.—ln answer to further questions the Colonial Secretary said the expenses for, the Waitotara election petition were £B4 14a 4d.—Sir Julius Vogel asked whether the cost of special trains to collect evidence was charged against the department.—The. Minister for Public Works : There were no special trains. - Mr R. Reeves understood that the petitioner was cast in costs.—The Colonial Secretary ; As between thrf parties. -r-Mr Monk moved to strike ont the item contribution in aid of the Imperial Institute, £IOOO. Carried on the voices.-—Mr M.onk moved to strike out the item, Melbourne Centennial Exhibition, £3500, but subsequently withdrew. Various votes were agreed to without discussion. On the vote of £2OO to Mr G. M. Park, telegraphist, in final settlement of clakns, Mr R. Reeves remarked tjhat he knew the circumstances, and he considered £2OO was a very small amount to give.—The Minister for Public Works said Mr Park claimed £SOO. —Mr Reeves : And he should have got it. Restoration of the General Post-office, Wellington, £2o,ooo.—Sir Julius Vogel asked how the money was to be expended. —The Minister for Public Works had not yet had time to consider the matter in detail. He disapproved the specifications previously drawn up, considering the building would not, under them, be safe. Instructions had been given for fresh specifications.—Mr E. Richardson: How do you get the £20,000? —The Minister said the sum voted on the previous occasion was not sufficient for internal arrangements, and it was expected that £20,000 woald cover everything.—Sir Julius Vogel proposed to reduce the vote by £7OOO. He did not consider a olock tower was necessary. and a separate vote should be given for the internal fittings —The Minister for Public Works pointed out that the lowest tender received for the work when Sir Julias Vogel was in office was £13,500. —Sir Julius Vogel: Then I will move to reduce it by £6soo.—Mr R. Reeves supported the vote, bolding that a suitable General Post - office should be provided.—Mr Guinness opposed it on the ground of economy.—Mr Peacock asked how tenders would be called for internal fittings.—The Minister for Public Works said he would not call for them at the same time. He assured the Houbo that he would not spend more than was necessary. The committee divided on the motion that the vote be reduced.

Ayes, 9.—Fraser, Goldie, Grey, Guinness, Hutchison, Kelly, E. Richardson, Smith, Vogel. Noes, 29.—Atkinson, Beetham, Blake, Brnce, Buchanan, Fergus, Fisher, Fitzherbert, Graham, Hislop, Izard, Jackson, Joyce, Lawry, Macarthur, McGregor, Mitchelson, Eewman, O’Conor, Peacock, R. H. J. Reeves, G. F. Richardson, Ross, Stuart-Menteath,Taipua,Tai whangs, | Whyte, Wilson, Withy. Motion for reduction lost.

Sir Julius Vogel said the retrenchment sham had burst, and they saw now that it was simply used for party purposes. The Premier had accused him of wasting time ; but if he had been ten years younger, be would have stonewalled this and the clause in the Loan Act. Howover, he was not able to do that; bat he would ask the Premier to undertake not to spend more than £2OOO on this work in the three months of the financial year; that the vote in the Appropriatiou Act should be £2OOO, with authority for liabilities up to £20,000. —The Minister for Public Works agreed to this, and the vote of £20,000 was agreed to. ' The remaining votes in the Estimates were agreed to without alteration. Resolutions were then reported from supply and agreed to, Sir Julius Vogel again expressing his regret that £20,000 had been passed for the General Post-office at Wellington. He also regretted that physical disabilities had prevented him opposing the proposal by “those means generally known as> stonewalling.” " SA.N FRANCISCO MAIL SERVICE. The Premier said the Government had decided to ask. the House to renew this service for one year, and he moved, That in view of the contract for the San Francisco mail service, terminating in November next, and of the impossibility of giving the question of renewal full consideration this session; the Government be authorised to arrange with the present contractors for extension of the contract for twelve months, and. to submit to the House next session definite proposals for continuance of the servioe. The motion was oarried. MIDLAND RAILWAY BILL.

The Legislative Council’s amendments to this Bill w.ere agreed to.

WETTPORT AND GREYMOUTH HARBORS BILLS. The Premier, in answer to Mr GuinneßS, said the Government would have introduced Bills dealing with these harbors had there been time ; but they did not think there was time. Inquiries would be made in the mean-

i time. The Government was of opinion that ' the works should go on in the meantime, and would find the necessary funds, pending the decision of the House next session. ' ; APPROPRIATION BILLS. . The Appropriation Bills (£749,436 Consolidated Fund and £412,558 Public Works Fund) were introduced and read a first and second time. The Native Minister, in answer to Mr Taipna, said it was the intention of the Government to deal with the repeal of the Native Lands Administration Act next session. The Bills were passed through all stages, and subsequently reported from the Legislative Council without amendments. CABLE SERVICE. The Premier announced that the Government did not propose to do anything with respect to the cable subsidy. It was possible that the rates would be raised in consequence, but the Government were of opinion that if the service did not pay, the loss should not be the Colony’s. governor’s assent. The Bills were despatched at 3.30 for the Governor’s assent.