Election Meetings.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 222, 11 December 1875, Page 17

Election Meetings.

MR. GISBORNE BEFORE THE ELECTORS. On Friday evening a meeting of the electors of the City of Wellington took place in the Odd bellows’ Hall, to hear Mr. Gisborne’s exposition of his political views. The Hon. C. J. Pharazyn occupied the chair, and iu a few remarks called upon Mr. Gisborne. Mr. Gisborne came forward and said : I will commence my remarks by some reference to a personal matter. Since I have announced my candidature for this city I have asked the Government to relieve me of my office, and I am now only holding office until they have made arrangements for my successor. My resignation is in their hands, and it will be accepted on such a date as will be most convenient to them—-(cheers.) —of course preceding the day of nomination. I also wish to emphatically deny the reports which have been spread abroad to the effect that I am put forward by a particular section of the community, or that I wish to favor any religious body. I entirely deny the truth of that report, and challenge those who spread that report to prove its truthfulness. I wish to say that my comments on the subject of education, which have been brought forward, are the same as were brought forward on a previous occasion. They were brought forward when I was in the House in 1871, when I was a responsible minister of the Grown, and they have been brought forward again now. They are absolutely identical ; hut I contend that my conduct has been quite consistent, and that I am not open to the charges which have been made against me. With regard to the report which has also been spread abroad - that I am to have a b'ock-vote—l can only say that I have no intention of asking for such a thing. It is not within my personal knowledge that such a thing is to he given. I have no desire to raise any religious or national feeling. It is utterly opposed to my wishes that such a cry should be raised. I would deprecate any religious or national feeliug being raised ; it is utterly repugnant to my tastes, and it would much grieve me were I to sow any seeds of disagreement iu this community. These reports are nodoubt merelyelectioneeriug devices; and I may say that the truercason formy coming forwai'd is that a few friends of different classes in life, of different creeds, and different nationalities, have kindly thought that the experience gained by me in public life may be of some use to the colony and to you as your representative ; and I, perhaps egotistically willing to comply with that request, have ventured to come forward as a candidate at the general election. I have no wish to come into unnecessary collision with your present representatives, for whom I entertain the greatest possible personal respect ; hut I cannot admit that that there is any monopoly in the case of representation of this city. Wellington is not a close borough. It would be to your advantage to have a choice among many candidates. (Cheers.) The stock of representatives might be improved just like any other stock, by the occasional introduction of strains of new blood. (Cheers.) Now, gentlemen, I am here to offer myself to be your representative, and to state my opinions upon the principal political topics of the day. I may perhaps be allowed to observe that considerable difficulty might have been avoided with regard to a third candidate if your representatives had exerted themselves and they would, I believe, have successfully exerted themselves—to obtain a third member for the city of Wellington —(cheers) —and had attempted to restore to it that amount of representation which it used to have, and which your property, your wealth, and your importance now deserve. Gentlemen, the question which perhaps is of the greatest importance just now, as eliciting the greatest amount of discussion, is the question of provincial abolition. Now, I will say, irrespective of the merit of the question—l am speaking as an abolitionist, as I would have spoken as a provincialist—that a question involving organic change in the institutions of the colony, abolishing half the machinery of the Government of the colony, and depriving the people of enormous representative power should, before any legislation took place on the subject, have been submitted to the electors of the colony at a general election. (Cheers.) I say that for the sake of constitutional principles and liberty the observance of these constitutional principles ought to he considered before immediate expediency ; that is the safeguard of our public liberty. I say that for such a principle, and upon such a question, the people, the whole people, and nobody but the people, should have been consulted first. (Cheers.) This is in reference to the past. I will now come to the state of abolition as present. Provincialism is not altogether abolished. The Abolition Act does not come into operation until after the next session of the new Parliament. Provincialism may be said to be mesmerised. It resembles the young lady exhibited here in this hall by the Fakir of Oolu some time ago. It is in a state of suspended animation. I think wo arc agreed, generally agreed, that Provincialism should not be revived. The question now is, whether it is necessary to substitute anything in the place of the void left by its abolition. I do not wish for one moment to abolish, or in any way to infringe upon the road boards and municipalities now in existence. I would rather maintain and strengthen them ; but it is a question whether any intermediate body should not be placed between these bodies and the Central Government—whether there should not be between these two some intermediate elective body, perhaps elected by the road boards and municipalities, or whatever bodies may have charge of local works. I think something of the kind is necessary. Now take the case of main roads :

I don’t think it would be right that the maintenance of these should be altogether left on the hands of local boards. One road board might have part of a road unfinished, and thereby inflict. disadvantage on the whole district or the neighboring district. Then a bridge might he wanted for a river between two districts. The board might differ, and in that case there would be a deadlock, and no bridge would be mads at all. Therefore, I think an intermediate body, perhaps temporarily and perhaps permanently, should be organised, as is the casein the Home country. There might be boards, such as county boards, elected by municipalities and road boards themselves, who should have charge of works of a character more than local. I have, gentlemen, some authority for this opinion. I have here an extract from a speech delivered by Sir Julius Vogel in 1873 ; it is an extract from his financial statement. He said, “ If the Assembly means to do the work of the provinces, then the provinces should be abolished, the waste of labor on provincial legislation be saved, and provision be made for a thorough system of colonial government. I express the opinion that the legislative work of the provinces and of the colony, if performed by one body of men, would necessitate the sitting of Parliament for at least ten months out of the twelve. [There’s a nice prospect for your future representative.] I shall be told that the parliamentary work of the empire itself occupies but a small portion of the year. Granted, but the circumstances are different. In a country with hundreds of years of history, rapid legislation is rarely necessary and generally undesirable. A young country requires, as do young children, more care and looking after. The argument that an old and wealthy country requires proportionately more parliamentary attention than a young and comparatively poor one, would be fairly paralleled by the assertion that infants might feed, and wash, and be mindful of themselves—-that the attention of nurses should be devoted to adults. But where are we to find, in the colony, men to whom its legislation should be confided, who are willing to give ten months in the year to the task ? We find with difficulty men to whom ambition of the power to be useful, and of the position of a Minister, is inducement sufficient to lead them to consent to the personal sacrifices the position entails ; but to be simply members of Parliament does not offer adequate temptation to reconcile men to entirely relinquishing their occupations, and we have not in the country a sufficient number of leisured men on whom to rely for its legislation. Therefore, if a strictly colonial system were the best, it could not be satisfactorily carried out; but I am not sure it is the best. Even in the United Kingdom, thoughtful men begin to see the necessity of a system of government intermediate between the central and the purely municipal, or, in other words, of strengthening the system of county government. In the colonies, I think, the want of provinces lias shown itself, and to supply it road districts are becoming powerful by some such process as that by which, according to Darwin, man has developed from a lower type. Road hoards, by the process of natural selection and the survival of the fittest, develop into shires, and shires may develop, indeed are developing, into provinces. I may be told that man’s perfection arises from his slow development. Grant that in our case the highest form of local government has been too rapidly developed and is full of imperfections : surely it is better now to work from the vantage ground obtained than to endeavor to throw hack our local system, in order that it may attain a higher form more slowly. But my illustration would do me injustice if it be held to indicate that I disapprove of road districts or wish to see them abolished. On the contrary, I want to see them permanent, and I believe that permanency can be better established by an intermediate form of government to work with them and over them, than by starting them on a career of ambition to supersede themselves by the attainment of a higher and different form of power. In the system of diffusion which is to make the whole colony prosperous, road hoards have a most useful part to play, and it would be as improper to allow them to usurp provincial power as to allow the provinces to usurp colonial power. Now, I don’t know whether he would quite adhere to. those opinions now, but I think he is still of the opinion that there should be some intermediate electoral body between road boards and the General Government if provincial institutions are to be abolished, which should take chargeof matters—country matters—which are quite distinct from municipalities and road boards. Now, I am strongly in favor of road boards and municipalities being endowed from the General Government funds. There has been some objection to their being subsidised from the colonial revenue, but I don’t see the force of the objections. It is said “you take taxes with one hand, and return them with the other.” But, if it is necessary that works in road districts should be executed, I don’t see why the colonial revenue should not bo taken for that purpose, and why the funds that the inhabitants of a road district contribute indirectly, should not be given back to them directly for their own uses, that is, to bo appropriated by themselves, instead of by the General Government. The General Government would merely help you to carry out your own works. I think it right that the people of a district should tax their own property, and this would gain much more force if a law were passed to tax absentee proprietors. What I think might be altered in the scheme is this. Say, a district containing a thousand people gets two pounds for every pound raised locally, I think a district with a population of five hundred, might get a subsidy, of £l. However, this is a matter of detail. With the priuciple of subsidies I quite agree. I think also that the question of dissolution of road boards and electing them again should be considered. I think the dissolution should take place at one time, and the elections follow all at once as the House of Representatives occurs, and not piecemeal. It would be better, because it would give the elec.

tors an opportunity of introducing change of blood. Any difficulty of administration could .be avoided by the existing boards holding office until their successors were appointed. The next questiou is, what lias the Opposition brought forward in opposition to the schemes? What have they put forward at this election which they want the people of New Zealand to accept, in place of what has been proposed by the Govern-ment-abolition of the provinces, and the substitution of elective road boards?—The four provinces scheme ? Now, I may say at once that I am utterly opposed to the four provinces scheme and federal union, for that really means separation. This has been admitted by Sir George Grey. Therefore, I may dismiss at once the question of four provinces, and come to that of separation of the two islands, with a federal union for both of them. Now, we have only to go a little further, and say that that means absolute separation, for the federal executive is merely intended to be existing in name. As to federal, legislation, Sir George Grey tells us, that is to be merely a nominal power. The Legislature must simply exist in order to register the edicts of the provinces. Therefore, the proposal which is put forward means real, absolute, and substantial separation between the two islands, absolute separation between, the North and the South. The North is to be one colony, and the South is to be one colony, and with this I disagree. If that were dono you would revive in each all the bitterness of a contest for the seat of Government, and there would be nothing but squabbling over the customs and fiscal, laws. I can understand separation in colonies where there are large tracts of territory dividing them—tracts of territory uninhabited, or by a wide expanse of sea; but when I see two islands almost contiguous and united, only separated by a narrow strait, and -with every necessity for mutual help and mutual dependence, and requiring only the strength of union to make one prosperous colony, one New Zealand home, I say the solemn words with which you are all acquainted, “Those whom God hath joined together let no man put asunder.” (A laugh and cheers.) Well, gentlemen, the subject to which I will now direct your attention is that of public works and immigration. I will at once say that I consider the present Minister of Public Works a very excellent officer in his place, hut think I may also say that Wellington has plenty of occasion for complaint of the slow rate of progress made in the public works here compared with the progress of other places. (Cheers.) With regard to immigration, I think that the arrangements made for the selection of immigrants, knowing the difficulties and disadvantages there are to labor under, reflect credit upon the gentlemen who manage the department, though we must all deplore the great and abnormal death-rate of children of tender years coming out in the vessels. But what I want to point out as the great defect in the administration of the department is the absence of. any provision for the settlement of the immigrants upon the land when they arrive in the colony. I feel some interest in this matter, because I was a member of the Ministry which inaugurated the policy. At that time I was Minister for Public Works, and I then laid great stress upon that part of the scheme, as I will show by extracts from public papers directly. The public works will always remain, but it is not so certain that people will, and therefore I considered at the time the most, important part of the scheme to be the provision for settlement, for that was the reproductive part of the great scheme. The Ministry then—and no Ministry could then have been got strong enough was not strong enough to abolish the provinces, for even the present Ministry have had to treat the land fund very gingerly and localise it, which by the way, I fully approve of ; but the. Ministry of the day had fully in mind the desirableness of settling the people on the land. In a circular which at that time I wrote to the Superintendent, that was in 1871, I said : “An indispensable feature of the colonial policy of last session is the concurrent progress of immigration and of public works (such as roads and railways) in due relation of each to the other.” Again, “By the term ‘ immigration ’ I do not mean the introduction of immigrants, but their permanent settlement on the soil. Public works without immigration, in that sense would, I fear, be a failure and waste of public funds. In order to secure this essential object it is necessary that sufficient blocks of land in the vicinity of the lines of the roads and railways should be marked out as reserved for immigration purposes. Fully anticipating your Honor’s concurrence in these views, and your desire to ensure by every practicable means the success of a policy, the object of which is to people and open up—or, in one word, to colonise waste lands, I invite with confidence your Honor to take the necssary steps, for the reservation in convenient areas, and in sites contiguous or adjacent to lines of railway and roads now in course of construction, of blocks of agricultural lands to be laid off in villages and farms for the purposes of immigration.” Then, again, in my Ministerial statement iu August, 1871, I said : “ An. essential part of the colonial policy is immigration. This was frequently stated by members of the Government and influential members of both Houses in the debates of last session, and is affirmed in the Act itself. If the construction of great works of communication in this colony be of pressing importance, the presence of an increased and increasing settled population, which shall to the greatest extent facilitate their construction and increase their use, is equally important; and, moreover, is necessary to .the success, and even to the existence of the other. Progress cannot he expected in a young colony from public works alone. But the addition of settled population cannot be permanently secured without its attachment to the soil, and the Immigration and tublic Works Act recognises that necessity.”

Then, again, in September, 1871,1 Haiti: — “ We regard the introduction and settlement of a suitable proportion of immigrants in each province as an indispensable complement to the construction of such public works as may be authorised within such provinces. The one is the co-ordinate of the other, and the concurrent action of both is essential to the development of the great policy of colonisation which the Legislature has directed to be prosecuted. As already stated, we propose that land shall be used for the purpose of settling a proportion of the immigrants. When lands are taken as security for the cost of constructing railways, those lands will be available for the purpose of settlement. But in the portions of the country where the land fund itself is the security for the railways, we propose that compensation shall be given for the laud taken.” Sir Julius Vogel, in his financial statement, in 1873, said : “ It is not necessary for me to refer now to immigration, beyond saying that Ministers recognise, as they have always recognised, that a largo of the permanent population of the colony is an absolutely necessary accompaniment of the public works policy. The anxiety of the Government to promote immigration has never abated, and it will be observed that the proposals now made are consistent with the carrying out of plans which they regard as of the utmost importance—plans which will enable immigrants to settle upon the lands of the colony.” These extracts shows that the Ministry recognised the necessity for settling the people on the land as a salient part of the scheme ; but I am sorry to say that, for some reason, that part of the scheme has been altogether ignored. Except in this province and Hawke’s Bay, hardly any settlements have been formed in connection with immigration. I believe the policy that has been pursued, if proceeded with, would upset the whole scheme, and I am very glad to find that the present Colonial Treasurer and Minister for Immigration has stated that the Government have feltthe necessity of securing settlement of the immigrants ; but I am afraid that the time which has been lost will render it more difficult of accomplishment—and success more uncertain. (Cheers!. With reference to the question of education I may state at once that I am opposed to the State teaching or interfering with any religious creed. (Cheers). I am opposed to any State endowment to any particular religion or denomination. (Cheers). My opinion now is the same as that which I expressed in 1871, viz., that the State should require a certain amount of secular education, but then I said and now I say that cases may occur in which it might be advisable for the State to aid schools already established, provided that these conditions are fulfilled—that the aid given is from time to time regulated according to the number of scholars educated in such school, that it was for secular education alone, that that secular education was to be approved by the State, that the school should be always open to State inspection, that the State should not interfere with religious education given in a school when given in the same manner as a clergyman gives education in ordinary State schools. These are my opinions now, and the Act of 1871 contained such provisions as would give effect to these opinions, and such provisions have been acted upon by your late Education Board. This is what I said on the second reading of the Bill in 1871 : “ I think that it will be universally admitted that education is necessary to all human kind, and that it would be as idle to argue upon that subject as it would be to argue upon the question whether the atmosphere in which we live is essential to human life. I also believe that it will be admitted, at least in any British community, that it is the paramount duty of the State to put itself at the head of any educational movement, and that it is the duty of the State to aid in promoting, controlling, and directing that movement. Well, sir, these admissions being made, what is the difficulty that prevents the State from performing that duty ? That difficulty is the religious difficulty. Whence does it arise ? It arises from the general conviction that religion is a necessary element of education, and also from the conviction that the State cannot with advantage teach any religion or any particular religious creed Again : —The solution of the religious difficulty is contained in those clauses which relate to assistance being given to private efforts for education and also to aided schools. The condition which we impose is the condition of the conscience clause, which, it must be understood, also regulates and governs the assistance to be given to aided schools. The clause is to the effect that any child admitted into or continuing in schools shall not be required to attend to or abstain from attending any particular Sunday School; that it shall not be required to attend any particular religious instruction in that school ; and also, that any religious instruction should be given at the beginning and end of secular education, and that, during such time, before or after, any child may be withdrawn by its parents from such religious instruction. It also provides what I think has not been sufficiently attended to by lion, members who have spoken on the subject,—that the school shall be open at all times to the inspection of the Government Inspector of Schools, only with the restriction that it shall be no part of the duty of such Inspector to inquire into any religious instruction.” That, gentleman, was the opinion I expressed in 1871, when I had, as a responsible Minister, charge of the Education Bill, and it is also the opinion which I have expressed this year in connection with the Wellington Education Board. But there are certain persons who have lately said “ Oh, don’t trust Gisborne on the question of education; go to Pearce and Hunter, they are your men for secular education.” Well, let us judge of the views of these gentlemen according to public action taken by them in Wellington. Mr. Hunter was a member of the Provincial Government which

brought in the Wellington Education Act of 1871, which has a clause in it providing for aiding private schools. He was also a member of the Provincial Council which passed that Education Act in a now shape. As to Mr. Pearce he was likewise a member of the Council which passed that Act. And in the case of Mr. Pearce we have an additional advantage in the opinions expressed by him on the subject, because in the year 1871, in the House of Representatives, he favored the House with his views on that question. I will quote from Hansard an extract from the speech he made on the occasion to which I refer, and as the extract bears altogether on that question, I will quote it in extenso, in order that it may not be said I have omitted anything of the contest, which might lead to a misinterpretation of the views expressed. Mr. Pearce said : “ He did not propose even to touch upon the various details of the Bill, but would briefly refer to one principle, which to his mind was the fundamental one in the measure. It was that which provided for assistance to denominational schools where established by the various churches throughout the country. He agreed with those who thought that that portion of the Bill which related to aided schools was one that would give satisfaction to the people. He held that no child could be said to be educated at all, from whom was withheld the knowledge of his accountableness to the Supreme Being, and who was not taught that this life was, after all, but a steppingstone to a future state. True, it was said that those matters should be left to the parents ; but it could not be denied that in thousands of instances, if so left, the knowledge of those truths would never reach the children. It was admitted that the duty of the Government of a country did not end with the protection of citizens in their rights, but was also charged with the preservation of their morals. He used the words of Washington when he said, ‘ Be cautious how you indulge the proposition that morality can be maintained without religion.’ Education not only consists in the development of the intellect, but embraces moral training ; hence the necessity for the religious element. He did not use the words religious in any narrow or doctrinal sense, but with that broader meaning which they would all admit it bore—that of obedience to the Divine law. He admitted that denominational schools could not, for some years, be established with effect except at the centres of population ; but they had already been established in most towns, both large and small, with good effect ; and it would be wise of the Government to utilise those schools as they found them, provided they attained a certain standard to Ire fixed by the Board, and they were clearly entitled to the aid which the Board might be able to give them. By that aid, schoolmasters would be multiplied and those who were at present working in that important field of labor would be in a more independent position. It would be manifestly most unjust to those who held that it was absolutely essential that religion should bo taught in tbeir public schools, that they should be obliged to continue the practice that at present existed of supporting schools by voluntary contributions, and at the same time be taxed for maintaining other public schools. They must not ignore the numerous petitions that had been laid upon the table of the House with respect to that question. He had the honor, not only of presenting a letter from the Bishop and clergy of the Church to which he belonged, and which also contained the signatures of Wesleyans, Presbyterians, and other religious bodies, but he had also the honor of presenting a petition from the Bishop and clergy of the Catholic Church. The House could not afford to ignore the petitions with which the table was covered bearing upon that subject, for they represented the views of a very large majority of the inhabitants of New Zealand.” Why, gentlemen, Mr. Pearce, according to the extract I have just read, goes further than I do. He seems to hold that it is the duty of the State to establish and maintain religious schools. Well, all I want to say is this, that if any of you are induced by the reports spread about me, that I am not the friend of secular education, but that Pearce and Hunter are—that, in fact, Short is not the friend, but Codlin—if any of you, I say, should be induced to test me on that point, then all I want is that you should be particular in your inquiry to ascertain the views of those other gentlemen on that particular point, lest, in rushing to their arms, you may simply be rushing from the frying-pan into the fire. It would have been extremely easy for me to have avoided speakiug on the subject of secular education, but I had no such desire. I do not aim at concealment of any views I hold upon this or any other subject. On the contrary, I thought as I expressed my convictions before that it would be only honest to the Corporation to state here what my convictions were, and to let you judge of the propriety or not, as you might think fit. (A voice : That’s what we want—nothing secret.) As to the native question, there was a time when the subject absorbed all, or almost all, of the public attention ; but now I hope to be able to dismiss it in a few words. In consequence of the policy of peace and the civilisation and education of the native race maintained under the able administration of Sir Douahl McLean, I do not think it at all likely that native disturbances anything like what occurred before will occur again, but there are many questions which will -crop up in connection with the subject still, and I think we should not relapse in our vigilance regarding it. There is, gentlemen, one other subject to which I will allude, and that is with reference to the constitution of the Legislative Council. I will give my support to the introduction of the elective principle in that Assembly. I am not one of those who decry that body. I have no objection to its members personally. Ou the contrary, I believe that they are conscientious gentlemen, and I know there are among them many able men. And I think

that there has been a good deal of unnecessary censure cast upon that body for the rejection of a Bill, because it was the pleasure of the House of Representatives to submit it for their consideration at the fag-end of the session. It is well known that numbers of Bills had been delayed till a period in the session when the Council had no time to devote its attention to them. I will take, as au instance, the Queen’s Wharf Extension Bill. Looking at the records in Hansard I find that the Bill, after having received an airing in the House of Representatives, was introduced into the Legislative Council three days before the prorogation of Parliament. (Hear.) But I cannot conceal from myself the fact that it is unwise and impracticable to keep up the nominee principle in one branch of the Legislature. I believe it would be difficult to effect a change in the Home country, where the House of Peers has grown up from time immemorial, while many of its members are either hereditary, or have distinguised themselves by glorious achievements where all are distinguished by social status. The House is moreover rendered sacred by the traditions of centuries. But it is impossible to apply the same argument to the Legislative Council of New Zealand, and I believe it would be wise to introduce into that body some elective principle, not based on the same franchise as the House of Representatives, or for the same term of years, but to recognise that the Legislative Council should, in some way or other, be responsible to the people of the country. [Mr. Gisborne here referred to the report of a statement made by the lion. Mr. Holmes, that he should object to Councillors being nominated by the Ministry, whereby Mr. Gisborne argued that Mr. Holmes, a distinguished member of the Upper House, had shown himself to be ignorant of the constitution of a body to which he belonged, inasmuch as the Council had been the nominees of the Government ever since responsible Government had been established.] One other subject I wish to refer to is the law relating to Friendly Societies. It is well known that these societies exercise an important influence on the affairs of the colony. When we look at their influence for the good of the people, their extensive ramifications, their great usefulness, which extends to countless households, it is obvious that they should receive the attention and consideration at the hands of Parliament which their importance deserves. Owing to the official position which I have held, I have been enabled to gain a considerable insight into the working of friendly societies, and I believe that the law as it at present exists is very unjust, and wants thorough revision ; and if I am elected to a seat in the House of Representatives one of the earliest subjects to which I shall devote my attention is the law relating to these friendly societies, with a view to putting it on a more satisfactory footing. Well, gentlemen, the last subject I shall refer to, and that which I consider the most important, is that of finance. Finance, as you very well know, is the life-blood of the body politic. It would be absurd in you to expect, or in me to attempt, anything like a financial statement on this occasion. This is not the place or time to perform such a task, and besides I have not access to the requisite information. I can, therefore, only indicate my general views. Now, the annual interest we are paying for the colonial loan is in round numbers one million pounds a year—about a twenty-third part of the interest' which Great Britain is paying for its national debt. Great Britain, with a population one hundred times larger than ours, and with wealth how many times greater than ours I cannot like to say, was paying in the shape of annual interest upon the national the debt only twenty-three times as much as New Zealand. The ordinary or Consolidated Revenue is taken at about one million and a half. The land revenue is taken at half a million, and both together come to two million. Well, the land fund was subject to pay half of the debt and the Consolidated Revenue the other half. Well, out of the debt of two millions one has to be paid annually, and goes away to England ; and we have to carry on the work of colonisation and the administration of the country with the remaining million. Now-, you must remember that the land fund is almost localised, but a certain amount is subjected to appropriation by the General Assembly for public works. I consider, gentlemen, that these are formidable facts, and facts which should induce us to pause and consider well our position. In speaking as I have done I have no wish to advert to any particular administration, and onlv reflect upon the system of finance. lam quite willing to admit that the Provincial system was continually jostling with the colonial, and the removal of the former would facilitate the reorganisation of colonial finance. But I stated in my address to the electors that the finance of New Zealand was unequal, improvident, and flurried, and to those epithets I adhere. I ask, are not the Customs revenues unequal ? Do not the duties, in some measure, press more heavily on the necessaries of life than on luxuries ? (Cheers.) I ask you is not the ad valorem principle unequal. Does it not offer a premium to the dishonest trader ? Again, is not our taxation generally unequal ? The resident settler provides for the cost of peace, order, and good government of the colony, while the absentee proprietor of land draws an income from lauds, the value of which is further increased by the cost which the resident settler lias to contribute. Further, I ask is not our expenditure unequal ? In this very financial year there is a sum of about £BO,OOO of colonial money divided between Auckland and Westland, simply on the ground that those provinces are impecunious, and unable to carry on their own Government. Ido not say that it is their fault that they are impecunious, but it is our misfortune. It shows that there is something wrong in the state of affairs, and that there is a manifest inequality in the expenditure when those provinces which are not impecunious have to provide for those which are. Next as to improvidence, we are simply living from hand to mouth on borrowed

money. Look at the session of 1874, when a loan of £4,000,000 was authorised. It was stated by the Minister of Finance, and, no doubt, sincerely, that the object of raising the £4,000,000 loan was not that it was actually wanted, but in order to provide for the contingencies of the money market, and if the Loan Bill passed, the colony would be able to provide against those contingencies. What was the result ? The £4,000,000 loan was raised, and actually two-thirds of the money spent three or four months after the negotiations were completed, and I believe the remainder will be exhausted during the present financial year. Then, with regax-d to my assertion that the finance of the colony is flurried, is it not a fact that changes have taken place sufficient to warrant me in saying so ? In 1873 the pro« vinces were to be empowered to borrow as much as they could get, and now the provinces are to be abolished. Directly the loan was authorised, the Treasurer went, as it were by night, Home, and scrambled through the negotiations on terms which may not be of advantage to the colony, and which arc not yet clearly understood. We are now enjoying the sunshine of prosperity, but clouds are darkening the horizon, and I fear it may bo soon that we shall have to face adversity and increased taxation, and we should therefore be prepared to meet it in time. What we want is revision of the Customs duties, property income tax on incomes above £l5O to £2OO a-year, reduction of expenditure, settled finance, and careful administration. I wish it to be understood that in any observations I have made of warning or caution, I do not desire to create any unnecessary alarm. Times of adversity must occasionally occur, but they should only serve to inculcate wisdom to stimulate our perseverance. I do not despair for a moment of ultimate progress. On the contrary, I feel as sure of it as I do of the existence of the sun at noonday. I have every faith in New Zealand. I have faith in her boundless resources and her institutions, and above all I have faith in the intelligence and energy of her people. (Applause.) The Chairman stated that Mr. Gisborne would be happy to answer any questions the meeting might desire to put. In answer to a question as to what he thought of the Corporation Act at present in force in New Zealand, Mr. Gisborne said: The Act is-very voluminous, containing some 500 pages, and I do not know how many thousand clauses, and I must confess that I have not been able to make myself master of it. (Laughter.) No doubt it wants amendment. (Continued laughter.) I may, however, generally state that I approve of the elective principle in respect of corporations, the same to apply to the election of Mayor. (Laughter and cheers.) The Mayor and Councillors should be elected simultaneously by the people. Elector : What is your opinion of the prelimiting rating power ? Mr. Gisborne : That is a difficult question, but one to which, if elected to the office of Mayor, I shall devote my attention. An Elector : Do you consider that it is correct to canvass for votes when we have the ballot ? Mr. Gisborne : As an abstract principle, I have no doubt that it is wrong to ask for votes, as the ballot was introduced for the protection of voters, but I am afraid that it will exist nevertheless. (Laughter.) Elector : What is your opinion of the present mail contract ? Mr. Gisborne : Wellington should be the centre port for the distribution of mails ; and although I cannot at the moment commit myself to giving a definite opinion, still I think if possible, in view of the present arrangement, that we should get rid of the San Francisco service and adhere to the Suez. There being no more questions put, The Chairman said the speech they had just heard appeared to be a very correct and satisfactory one. He would not, however, ask the meeting for a vote of confidence in the candidate because they had the ballot before them, and personally he considered it wrong for any candidate to canvass for votes. He would simply move that a vote of thanks be accorded to Mr. Gisborne for the manner in which he had expressed his views. After a brief interval, the Chairman said he had perhaps made a mistake. It would be more correct for one of the meeting to propose such a resolution. Upon this, Dr. Johnston came forward and proposed a vote of thanks to Mr. Gisborne for the lucid explanation of his views, and stated that he should give that gentleman his support, in consideration of his being the only candidate who had interested himself in the matter of the public health. Mi - . Moore seconded the motion, which was carried unanimously. Mr. Gisborne thanked the meeting. Mil. TRAVERS ADDRESSES THE ELECTORS. A public meeting, convened by advertisement, was held in the Odd Fellows’ Hall on Saturday last. There were from two to three hundred persons present. At a few minutes past eight o’clock Mr. Dransfield took the chair at the request of Mr. Travers, who took occasion to state that Mr. Dransfield was opposed to him in politics, although he had consented to act as chairman. Mr. Dransfield made a few remarks h .y way of introduction, and then called upon the candidate to deliver himself of his address. Mr. Travers, after apologising to the meeting for having given such short notice of his intention to address the electors, said—lt is some five years since I had the honor of addressing the Wellington constituency as a candidate for political honors ; and I hope and believe that the time which has passed since then has not been altogether unprofitable to myself, as affording me opportunities of making myself better acquainted with the political institutions of the day —better acquainted

with the requirements of the province—and better acquainted with the citizens of Wellington itself ; and I hope, gentlemen, that during that time nothing has taken place regarding my conduct as a citizen which could have the effect of lessening the regard with which I believe I was looked upon, when a candidate for political honors on a former occasion. In what I have to say to-night I propose following somewhat the order in which the several subjects are referred to in my published address. I desire to discuss some of the more important political questions which are now agitating the public mind. You will, of course, understand that it is impossible for any candidate even to foreshadow in the slightest degree the large number of subjects which must necessarily come under the consideration of a Parliament lasting over a period of five years ; and if, therefore, I leave out upon the present occasion some subjects upon which many of you feel disposed to obtain information from your candidates, you will, I hope, excuse me; although I shall be most happy to answer questions on those subjects put to me by any of the electors. But, gentlemen, if I succeed in satisfying you that my views on the subjects which are now prominently under discussion are sound —and if I succeed in satisyou that I am earnest in my belief in reference to those subjects,—you will probably be willing to trust me in regard to those upon which I cannot possibly foreshadow my opinion. Now, gentlemen, one of the most prominent subjects under consideration of every colonist, and regarded with the closest attention by all political parties as applied to this colony, is the question of the continued existence or abolition of the provincial institutions, and that is a question upon which men’s minds are somewhat divided. I think the general feeling of the people of New Zealand is against the continuance of provincial institutions, and I quite agree with that general feeling. Of course, there are some persons who would say of me, “ Oh, you agree with it because it is the general feeling;” but, gentlemen, I think I have it in my power to appeal to my past conduct in reference to provincialism, in order to show that my convictions on that subject are not new-born at all—that, on the contrary, they are convictions which have had a place in iny mind for a large number of years—convictions which started their growth from the time when these institutions were brought into operation in New Zealand, and which have not ceased to grow from that time until the present day. I had the honor of making the first political speech under the Constitm tion of New Zealand, and the circumstances in which I was at that time placed I will relate to you. I was residing in the province of Nelson, and Mr. Stafford, who was then a resident there also, and one of the ablest men in New Zealand, was a candidate for the office of Superintendent of that province under the new Constitution. Now, gentlemen, I do not pretend to any greater foresight than many of my neighbors ; but I have read a good deal on the subject of the political Constitution of England and other countries, and I felt sure at the time that any attempt to establish a double system of government must ultimately end in consequences the most disastrous to this colony. Therefore, I asked Mr. Stafford on that occasion whether he would pledge himself not to become a member of the General Assembly while holding the office of Superintendent. He refused to give that pledge, and I refused to support him. I told him that, so sure as Superintendents became members of the General Assembly, a conflict greater or less must inevitably take place between the provincial authorities and the General Government, which would end in the destruction of one or the other. Well, I believe there was at this time a very larae body of the electors of Nelson (exercising for the first time the political privileges of the Constitution) who felt strongly upon this point, and Mr. Stafford did not stand as a candidate for the first session of the Parliament of 1854 ; but he became a member of the Assembly shortly afterwards, and, it is needless for me to say, distinguished himself very much. He has always occupied a high position in the colony, has shown a considerable aptitude for business, and has now grown to see the necessity for abolishing those provincial institutions which he was one of the first to foster m an improper degree. We now find him foremost among those who have awakened to the necessity of a change—a change which his action in 1853 had much to do in bringing about. I therefore look back to the earliest commencement of the political history of New Zealand under the present Constitution, and can say that from that time until now I have never been a provincialist in the strict sense of the term. I believe in the people of the colony possessing representative institutions of various kinds. I believe in the elective principle, as one that preserves the liberties of the people. I believe in the existence of municipal institutions, and seeing them introduced all over the country according to its requirements. Those institushould carry out the functions known to municipal bodies in England, without beiuo* fettered in their action otherwise than by some particular law, which should be common from one end of the colony to the other. I am entirely opposed to the system which divides the government of the colony into nine legislative bodies, and I believe that if those who inaugurated the Constitution in 1853 had exercised a proper care and foresight we should not now have to complain of a conflict of authority between the General and Provincial Governments But while I believe—and I have other grounds for my belief to which I shall shortly refer that the time ha 3 come when it is necessary to modify existing institutions, I do also believe that the General Government were guilty of improper haste in the mode in which they attempted to make the change. (Hear, hear.) I believe it was their duty to have laid before the people of the colony some well-con-sidered scheme, which was to take the place of the institutions they were pulling down. I do not believe that it is in any degree desirable in this colony that the whole of the power of go▼eminent—the dealing with municipal ques.

tions that ought to be dealt with by the people themselves— should centre in the hands of the General Executive. I think that class of duties ought to devolve upon municipal bodies, and they would be managed very badly indeed if they wore to pass into the hands of the General Government. I say that before the Government had set to work to pull down institutions which to a certain extent were subserving the interests of the people, they ought to have brought before the country some well-considered scheme of government to replace it. But they acted without proper consideration, in haste, and without knowing what was going to he the result of their action. They brought down, gentlemen, for the purpose of meeting the necessities of the case, during last session, a measure which was called the Local Government Bill, which was imperfect, utterly useless, and was laughed at and scouted by every party in the House. I doubt whether a single individual member, even on the Government benches, raised his voice in favor of so miserably conceived a measure, and we have heard no more about it. But I have not heard of any steps being taken to devise a proper scheme. The public are not invited to consider any scheme, and are,. n fact, left entirely in the dark as to what oourse they purpose taking when Provincial Councils fall to the ground, if they are to fall to the ground at all. To my mind the danger is that while the colony has pronounced unmistakeably in favor of abolishing provincial institutions, the failure of the Government to provide a suitable substitute will land us in a continuance of provincialism. This bodes mischief, for unless they bring forward some scheme to replace provincialism, the latter must remain in force. Now, I think it is clearly their duty to bring forward such a measure. But, gentlemen, there was a little note sounded here in this city the other day which perhaps many of you did not hear. I saw in the New Zealand Times a few days since, in reference to the speech of a certain gentleman, a paragraph which was to this effect :—“ Let provincial institutions go to the wall. Don’t let us bother our heads about anything to succeed them at present. Let the General Government have the administration of the whole affair for two or three years, and see how it will go.” I have not the paragraph, but I solemnly assure you that it is to" be found in the columns of the New Zealand Times, and is simply a suggestion to save the Government from the difficulty of bringing in a scheme of government to take the place of the institutions which it is proposed to destroy. I say, do not let municipal government pass into the hands of the General Government, or you will have the government of the country vested in the hands of officials over whom you have no control whatsoever. I say to you, preserve your municipal government, which is the life and soul of the liberties of the English people. Now, I will say no more about these provincial institutions, and will refer shortly to the finance of the colony. After all, it appears to me that the immediate necessity for abolishing provincial institutions arises out of the scheme of public works, which have landed the colouy in heavy debt. In order to complete the works which have already been commenced, millions of money have yet to be raised. If you take the trouble to make inquiries for yourself; you will find that the extent to which these works are already carried out is surprisingly small. Probably many of you have no idea of the limited extent to which these works have reached up to the present time. Major Atkinson, speaking in a glib manner, the other day, about the railway works in the North Island of the colony, said :—“ The object of the works in the North Island was to connect Auckland and Wellington by rail, and to give access to this line to all places between these two centres.” Well, gentlemen, that is a very extensive piece of work to connect Auckland and Wellington by rail. Now, just let us consider what that involves. At present we have commenced a railway northward through the Rimutaka, by Wairarapa, and at Woodville to join the Hawke’s Bay railway, which, starting from Napier, comes south towards Wellington. That line is intended to be connected with another line of railway, passing through the Manawatu Gorge and connecting the Wanganui country with Taranaki ; but mind, I have not heard yet one single suggestion as to the mode in which these lines of railway are to be connected with Auckland. I know that if you start from Taranaki to reach Auckland you have a country in which you will meet with inconceivable difficulties—a country occupied by King natives, who are jealous of any attempt to penetrate it; a countrv of which we know almost as little as we “do of the surface of the moon ; a country into which no engineer has ever penetrated for the purpose of surveying ; a country which all persons who have had an opportunity of examining it, declare to he very much broken, and full of difficulty. I know of my own experience that the journey from Napier to Taupo is one of extreme difficulty. There are several ranges of hills to be passed over, the greater portion of it is extremely barren—scarcely fit for settlement in any portion, and God knows how many miles long. (Laughter.) And when you have got there you are not anyway near Auckland, having about 130 miles further to go before you reach the terminus of the Auckland and Mercer railway. It is, I sa y. ffhb talk for a Minister of the Crown to tell you of connection between Auckland and Wellington, as did Major Atkinson. A Voice : He meant it would be finished in a thousand years. . Mr. Travers : Very likely. Time has an important effect in all human affairs, and probably a thousand years would suffice at all events ; I do not think, however, we need ask for so long a time as that. But I say it is glib talk on the part of a Minister when he tells us that to which I referred in the speech of Major Atkinson. Now, let me give you some facts on this matter (I have a diagram here to illustrate my words), and one fact, you know, is worth fifty theories. (Applause.) This diagram represents the provinces of Welling.

ton and Hawke’s Bay. That black lino (pointing to the map) represents the railway already constructed iu the province of Hawke’s Bay, and the line to Waipawa will be open, I believe, this month. At all events, I believe the contract time terminates iu December. We have from Wanganui a considerable length of line in course of being made, and from bidding's there. is also a certain extent of line under construction. And here we have a part of considerable anxiety to Wellington, called the Manawatu Gorge. This line is intended to pass up the Dlanawatu Gorge, and thromrh it to connect with the Wanganui line ; aud it is intended to pass down from Manawatu to Masterton, from Masterton to Eeatherston and from Eeatherston to Wellington. But, gentlemen, you will see that between this part at the Manawatu George, and the city of Wellington there is a tremendous long gap, and that the whole of the Wellington line actually constructed and open is represented by one' inch ! ~ (hear) while the line from Hawke’s Bay, in course of construction, is represented by ten inches; and that from Taranaki to the Gorge is also represented by many inches; and as the whole of these lines converge to this point the effect will be that the whole of the SeventyMile Bush will be tapped by the Hawke’s Bay railway before the Wellington railway has any chance of approaching it. (Hear.) In the Wellington province, the lines under contract extend as far as Eeatherston, but it will take two years to open the line as far as that, and no attempt has yet been made to project the line from Featherston to Masterton, where it would join on to the Hawke’s Bay line. And yet, gentlemen, a Minister of the Crown tells us that it is the object of the Government to connect Auckland with Wellington by rail. (Laughter.) At all events, the object has not been carried out, and Wellington has been left most unmistakeably out iu the cold with regard to the railways which were'to bring Wellington into communication -with the back country. Well, I will tell you something with regard to this, too. I lately travelled from Wellington to Hawke’s Bay, and I see gentlemen in this room who have also travelled the same road. (Mr. Travers went on to explain that he had met with tolerable coach roads as he proceeded, a tramway from Foxton to Palmerston, and from there he passed by a well-constructed coach road from Manawatu Gorge, and every part of the way from Palmerston into Napier there was a good carriage road.) But what do we find when we reach a place called Woodville, on the other side—a bed of clay into which a horse might sink up to his belly. That, gentlemen, is the road to Wellington—(hear)— and there is no means of travelling from Masterton to Woodville any more than there is by rail. As I said before, we have been entirely left out in the cold, and no effort was made to represent this state of things to Parliament. I say it in the presence of your representatives, who are here to-night. I defy you to produce in Hansard any one single protest against the conduct of the Government. I defy them to show that they ever, brought that influence to which their position as supporters of the Government entitled them, to bear upon the Government on behalf of Wellington in respect of these matters, which would show that justice had been done. Such language as Major Atkinson used is clap-trap, and nothing more or less. And, gentlemen, with reference to the subject of public works, let us see some more of the language uttered by the gentleman to whom I have referred. Mr. Bryce, during last session, succeeded in getting an additional representative for Wanganui, and the people of that district, thinking it woulct be well could they get Sir Julius Vogel to represent them, asked that gentleman to stand, and to this request Sir Julius Vogel acceded. Well, gentlemen, what did Major Atkinson say on that subject at Wanganui recently. He said—“ If he (Mr. Bryce) was again elected, and with him Sir Julius Vogel, the district would have just cause to. be.proiul of their representatives, for no district in the colony would be before them; the interests of the district could not be placed in better hands ; and if they expected to have their public works done, he could not advise them to do better than elect their old member (Mr. Bryce) and Sir Julius Vogel.” Further on, Major Atkinson said—“ He would again say that if they would secure their interests they would elect Mr. Bryce and Sir Julius Vogel, and if they desired to do so more effectually they would elect them unopposed. I ask, gentlemen, is not such language most improper when uttered by a Minister of the Crown ? Is it not a scandalous mode of attempting to obtain political support for a gentleman like Sir Julius Vogel—a gentleman whom any constituency might well be proud to have representing them. Sir Julius Vogel has made a great name in New Zealand, he is the author of a policy which will ultimately bring great good to this colony ; and his name ought not to be coupled with a suggestion that a borough would, by returning him unopposed, unmistakeably serve its own interest. (Applause.) As I said before, gentlemen, the question of provincialism is intimately connected with that of finance, and our finance is intimately connected with the public works policy ; and it has become perfectly clear that to carry that policy out to a successful issue, the General Legislature of the colony must have the fullest possible command of the whole of the revenue of the colony. They must have at their command the means of meeting the public creditor and the ordinary charges of government. Now, as was said by Mr. Gisborne, the public creditor already takes from this colony a million a year of hard cash, which must he taken out of the pockets of the people. But the whole of that million a year interest is not attributable to public works; on the . contrary, a very large proportion of it is attributable to unprofitable expenditure in the past, from a continuance of which we have been in a great measure saved by the able native administration of Sir Donald McLean. It has shown us forcibly that it is far better to feed the natives than to fight them ; for, although wo have to pay something to feed them, yet we can sit down and feel tolerably

comfortable also. No doubt Sir Donald McLean has managed to keep peace as between Maoris and Europeans, which some of ns may lament; but it has turned out satisfactory, and he has kept it going so long that, although there may bo some little element of discord which might (in improper hands) be fomented into mischief, still Sir Donald McLean has managed to effect an organisation which there is little chance of breaking down, and there is very little likelihood of an outbreak for the future ; and I think the colony has to thank him for the ability and energy lie has evinced in managing native affairs for years past. But, gentlemen, there is no question about this, that we have to meet the public creditor. We have a million of money at present, and that will only go to complete the works in hand, which do not include the scheme of carrying railways from Auckland to Wellington—indeed, it won’t even provido the surveys for that. All that will have to be done afterwards. All the money now in hand will be absorbed by the contracts now in existence. If we want to carry out this scheme of public works in its entirety we have got to borrow more money, and in order to carry out that scheme we need £10,000,000 ; hut it may take a very indefinite sum indeed. The public creditor must he satisfied, and the taxation of the people cannot be reduced so long as we have got such enormous drains on the resources of the colony. Iu those circumstances the Government found it necessary to look into the finance of the country, and they discovered that they could not allow the provinces to continue to dip their hands into the revenue when they (the General Government) wanted all the available resources to meet the demands upon themselves. I believe sincerely that it was the recognitiou by the Government of the necessity for having possession of the whale of the revenues of the colony that led to the proposed change in the Constitution of the country. (Hear.) Now let us look at the provincial aspect. We have a million a vear at present to pay as interest on debt ; we have also to meet the necessities of government, the cost of administration, the cost of performing all those functions devolving upon the Government, and which are exaggerated in one instance by the peculiar physical characteristics of the ■ country. It is impossible, gentlemen, that the people can put their hands into their pockets at the same time that they are suffering a large amount of indirect taxation, in °the way of Customs duties and so forth, to the extent necessary to carry out that class of works which properly devolves upon municipal bodies. The General Government accordingly tell the people that so soon as Provincial Governments are abolished they will endow the local boards and municipal bodies in a certain proportion, and these endowments are to proceed from the land fund. But, gentlemen, the land fund is a vanishing quantity. Every hundred acres sold is so much less from that fund from which the endowments are to proceed in the future. The necessities of the Government keep on increasing, and as the land fund becomes expended we must resort to some other means for the purpose of carrying into effect the endowments the Government speak of ; and in proportion to the rapidity with which the works are carried on, the demand will be the greater. The only source from which these means will be obtained will be direct taxation upon the people themselves. My own impression is that the people must look forward to this state of affairs very soon. The prospect of raising from the Consolidated Revenue a bonus pi-oportionate to the funds raised from the rates is altogether a delusion. I believe the Government have not power to meet the demand. As for what Major Atkinson said at Wanganui, it was simply held out as a bait A Voice : Make it more clear. Mr. Travers : It is difficult for a man to make a subject more clear than as it appears in his own mind. What I point out is this : The necessities of the General Government have grown so rapidly, and the loan fund being a vanishing quantity, it is almost a matter of certainty that they will not he in a position to make the proposed endowments to road boards and municipalities, and the people must bs prepared to look forward within a limited time to the necessity of taxing themselves directly for the carrying out of those works which ordinarily devolve upon municipal bodies. My belief on that point is based upon what I have said before. Now how many of you have roally thought out this subject, and endeavored to see the original cause of the taxation you endure ? But I tell you who do think the subject out—the commercial men. They know what the tariff means. They are obliged to study the tariff with a view to the success of their occupations. But I ask, how many of you have studied the Customs tariff of 1873 ? Do you know that everything you wear or consume in any way is taxed ? Your tea is •taxed Gd. per pound out of the 2s. 3d. which you pay for it. Everything you have on is taxed. (Here Mr. Travers enumerated the articles of wearing apparel). The very clothing you sleep in is taxed, and these articles are taxed at rates varying from 10 to 25 per cent. If you ever look upon these things and reason upon them for yourselves; if you consider that every time you go into a grocer’s shop and purchase a pound of tea that one-fourth of the money goes towards the Customs revenue of the colony—if, I say, you consider these things, you will see that the taxation presses most heavily on those who are least able to support it. For instance, Ido not consume more tea than probably many a working man with a family—l do not pay any more towards that source of revenue than men who are receiving the minimum rate of wages, and I say it is necessary the public should know in what manner the taxes are raised, and to see that some change is made in the incidence of taxation by making it hear more heavily on the backs of those who arc able to support it. The two honorable gentlemen your members do not care a rush about this. (A Voice : “Oh !”) It is quite immaterial to them if the tax on tea is 6d. per pound, because they could sell it at ft halfpenny per pound dearer to the

consumer. (Laughter). And quite right, too, a« regards the halfpenny, because they ought to have interest on their money. But the taxation concerns those who consume the articles taxed, to know that the burden is placed upon their backs ; and they ought to be informed that they have it in their power to change the incidence of taxation if they choose to make their representatives do it in Parliament. A Voice : Will you help to do it ? Mr. Travers : I certainly will if I am elected. But the efforts of a single individual member arc apt to be futile. He is only one of 85 members. The country as a whole must demand from their members a pledge to effect the change. If we have only the voice of one man, all he can do is to suggest in the House ; and, as I said before, if I am elected, I shall consider it my duty to draw attention to the necessity for a reform. I have observed that changes are not so easily made. Colonial treasurers dare not gamble with the finance of the colony ; they know that the liabilities of the country must be met, and that the interest of the public creditor must be paid ; and before they make any change in the incidence of taxation they must be perfectly certain in their own minds that the change will not produce a diminished revenue, and that they will be in a position to meet the claims upon Government Bills. But it is the duty of the Colonial Treasurer to consider the manner in which the burdens of taxation are placed upon the shoulders of the people, and it is his duty to see whether changes cannot be made tentatively and for the purpose of redistributing the burden. I may tell you a change which I think might usefully be made, and I dare say I shall be told that what I say is clap-trap. A Voice : Hear, hear. Mr. Travers : No doubt. But, gentlemen, I am going to tell you a matter of my own experience. If a man is the owner of a small piece of land and wants to sell a part of it for, say, £IOO, and goes to his lawyer to have the deed made out —or the purchaser goes to his lawyer with the same object—we very speedily see two or three things in connection with the taxation of the country. He finds in the first place that he has to pay 10s. in the way of stamp duty—that is 5 per cent, on every £SO. Well, gentlemen, if a man of some considerable means goes to buy a property for £5,000, he finds that he has only got to pay at the same rate as the poor man. A Voice : Quite right. Mr. Travers: Just so. Quite right in the eyes of the man of property. But, gentlemen, I say there should be a graduated scale in the shape of stamp duties. And have we no precedent for that ? Decidedly we have. If you go to the Land Transfer Office for the purpose of bringing your property under the Land Transfer Act, you will find there is a sliding scale there, and I cannot, for the life of me, see why it should not apply in the other case. But the poor man has also got to pay a registration fee, and that is just as much as in the case of a gentleman who goes in for a purchase of property to the extent of £IOOO. These transactions, as in many others, press heavily on the poor man, and lightly upon the rich. In this case then, a change might also be made. And I could tell you of many other things of the same kind, in which there might be a considerable change. Moreover, I see no reason on the face of the earth why there should not be a relief to a considerable amount of customs and the burden placed upon property and income, by which the poor would be relieved at the expense of the rich. Nothing of the kind has even been thought of, however, for the purpose of relieving taxation, but simply for the purpose of increasing the revenue. I say it is the duty of the Treasurer so to deal with the taxes of the country as to place the burden in due proportion upon the rich and poor alike—to make the rich pay in proportion to their wealth, and the poor to pay in proportion to their inability to meet the demands upon them. And I have no doubt the time will come, when additional taxes are imposed upon the people of this country, when all these matters will be brought prominently before them, and they will then compel the representatives to do what they ought to do without compulsion. A change in the incidence of taxation is absolutely necessary, if we are to have anything like a proper system of finance in this colony. But you won’t get that change unless you elect those who will a :sist in bringing it about. Now, gentlemen, I have touched upon two principal topics, which appear to me to require attention. I have also touched upon public works. lam in favor of that scheme, so long as it is carried out economically and in the interests of the colony ; providing that there are no political railways made, and works performed with the object of buying votes, such as making a harbor at New Plymouth at a cost of £160,000, which was dangled before Mr. Carrington, the Superintendent of Taranaki, for the purpose of socuring his support. All these things are radically wrong. The Government of the country ought to have the honesty and pluck to tell the people that which was wanted in the shape of public works, and stick to it. They should not devote the money in the manner in which they have been doing it, for the purpose of buying political support, when they know that the carrying out of the scheme of public works inaugurated requires the most unremitting attention and all the resources that are available consistent with the necessities of Government. Gentlemen, I am in favor of immigration and public works ; but, what I demand is, that a well-considered and consistent scheme should be laid before the country ; that it should be brought within the limits of our resources, and earned out so as to meet the great ends in view. I will now say a few words in connection with the Hon. Mr. Richardson, the Minister of Public Works. Gentlemen, he was a godsend to the Government of this colony. The present Minister of Public Works is a simple-minded, honorable man. He does not look much into political questions, but he studies the necessities of his department, and carries out the works committed to his control in the best

manner possible. He has succeeded in organising an excellent staff, and has laid the foundation for the successful carrying out of the object held in view when the scheme of public works was inaugurated. He is a man the colony lias reason to be proud of, and grateful too ; because I do firmly believe that but for the services which Mr. Richardson has rendered to this colony we should now have been led into serious disasters, for I do not know of any man in the Assembly who could possibly fill liis place, and if any circumstances should lead to his retirement from office it would lie to the advantage of the colony to secure the continuance of his services at a considerable sacrifice. I do not think, however, for a moment, that he would look at the matter in that light at all, but what I do say is that he deserves the gratitude of the colony for the way in which he has administered his department. But, while I believe that the leader of that department has acted in a satisfactory manner, looking at the works as a whole, I cannot shut my eyes to the fact that there has been a very large amount of unnecessary expenditure, and even waste in conciliating political supporters. We see this, for instance, in the construction of lines from nowhere to nowhere, such as that from Nelson to Foxton. This, I say, is utterly unworthy of the Ministry, whose duty it is to bring before the public the necessity for expenditure in certain directions, and to take their stand on those works only which are necessary to the full carrying out of the scheme initiated by Sir Julius Vogel in 1871. Another subject which has been very much discussed out of doors and in the papers is that of education, regarding which I intend making a few remarks. I have lately perused the works of Hubert, Spencer, and Professor Huxley on the subject. I entirely agree with the views propounded by Professor Huxley, one of the greatest men of the day. He is a man whose habit of analysis has enabled him to master the questions in a manner very few men can, and I have observed with pleasure by the well thumbed pages of his works in the Athenaeum that [he is well read by the people of Wellington. I believe it is the duty of the State to provide for the general education of the people. It is their duty to lay the foundation upon which all the children of the State may ultimately build vip the superstructure of extended konwledge. It is not the duty of the State to turn out scholars. All it has to do is to turn out from its schools boys and girls who will ultimately develope into intelligent men and women. There are to be found hundreds of examples of men who have risen from the humbler ranks of life to the highest eminence, and who started with little more knowledge than that obtained at the national schools of England. I may instance a few of the great men. I speak of Watt, the Peels, Hugh Miller, the theologist, and Sutton. This class of men are represented in almost every branch of science and mechanics—men who have risen to eminence upon a foundation of knowledge of a slender character, and it is the duty of the State therefore to afford to all its children an opportunity of obtaining an amount of instruction upon which they may afterwards build a more extended knowledge. And that is the whole duty of the State. They are concerned only with secular education—they have no business to meddle with religious education at aIL (Hear.) But, gentlemen, let it be distinctly understood that I do not despise or in any degree deprecate religious instructions. All I say is that State schools are not the places where, as I understand it, religious instruction should be given. Religious instruction in schools means denominationalism. If we allow lay teachers in the schools to go into religious instruction at all it must of necessity degenerate into denominationalism, and it does not do for the State to permit that. The State concerns itself only with the secular education of its children. But I should not be opposed to the Bible being read in school. In those schools in which it could be done I should like to see the Bible read as it is known to the children, and for lay teachers to give explanations to those who read it upon the geography, history, and grammar involved in its writings, but I should deprecate any explanations savoring of denominationalism. Let me read to you a passage from the work of Professor Huxley bearing upon this point. It is taken from a speech delivered by him when he was a candidate for a seat upon the Metropolitan School Board, and is as follows: “ If Bible reading is not accompanied by constraint and solemnity, as if it were a sacramental operation, I do not believe there is anything in which children take more pleasure. At least, I know that some of the pleasantest recollections of my childhood are connected with the voluntary study of an ancient Bible, which belonged to my grandmother. There were splendid pictures in it to be sure, but I recollect little or nothing about them save a portrait of the high priest in vestments. What camo vividly back on my mind are remembrances of my delight in the histories of Joseph and of David, and of my keen appreciation of the chivalrous kindness of Abraham in his dealings with Lot. Like a sudden flash there returns back upon me my utter scorn of the pettifogging meanness of Jacob, and my sympathetic grief over the heartbreaking lamentation of the cheated Esau— ‘ Hast thou not a blessing for me also, O, my father V —and I see, as in a cloud, pictures of the grand phantasmagoria of the Book of Revelation. I enumerate as they issue the childish impressions which came crowding out of the pigeon holes in my brain, in which they have lain almost undisturbed for forty years. I prize them as an evidence that a child of five or six years old, left to his own devices, may bo deeply interested in the Bible, and draw sound moral sustenance from it. And I rejoice that I was left to deal with the Bible alone, for if I had had some theological ‘ explainer ’ at my side, he might have tried, as such do, to lessen my indignation against Jacob, and thereby have warped my moral sense for ever; while the great apocalyptic spectacle of the ultimate triumph of right aud justice might have been , turned to base purposes.” These are the views

entertained by Professor Huxley, that the Bible might be read in the schools with advantage to the children, but deprecates any attempt to introduce theological explanations, and these are my views, gentlemen. I should, as I have said, like to see the Bible read in schools, so long as it did not do violence to the consciences of the parents of those attending the schools. If such an objection is raised, then I say let religious instruction be given where it should be given, outside of the schools, and by the parents and pastors of the children of different denominations. And I believe this State will carry out its object best by confining itself strictly to secular education. (Ifear.) That it is the duty of the State to provide such education I believe most thoroughly. I will quote from the same author on this point. Professor Huxley concludes his speech thus:— “If the positive advancement of the peace, wealth, and the intellectual and moral development of its members are objects which the Government, as the representatives of the corporate authority of society, may justly strive after in fulfilment of its end—the good of mankind ; then it is clear that the Government may undertake to educate the people. For education promotes peace by teaching men the realities of life, and the obligations which are involved in the very existence of society ; it promotes intellectual development, not only by training the individual intellect, but by sifting out from the masses of ordinary or inferior capacities those who are competent to increase the general welfare by occupying higher positions ; and, lastly, it promotes morality and refinement, by teaching men to discipline themselves, and by leading them to see that the highest, as it is the only permanent content, is to be attained, not by grovelling in the rank and steaming valleys of sense, but by continual striving towards those high peaks, where, resting in eternal calm, reason discerns the undefined but bright ideal of the highest Good—‘A cloud by day ; a pillar of fire by night.’ ” These, gentlemen, are words which must commend themselves to every thinking man, as showing us what is the duty of the Government towards the people—that of providing for the education, which is the source of liberty, and that they can best provide for by promoting the individual capacity of the people. I have no more to say to you gentlemen. I have told you my views on the subjects of provincialism, the finance of the colony, public works, and education, and these appear to me to be the four points requiring to be touched upon on the present occasion. If I have satisfied you on these points—if I have convinced you that my opinions are sound with respect to them, then, gentlemen, I can only appeal to my career amongst you to satisfy you that, if elected, I shall fearlessly urge those views upon the Government of the colony. I am not in the habit of mincing my words, and tell you simply what I think. I have no personal object to gain by entering Parliament. To show you that such is the case, I could have been Attorney-General last year had I liked, but I did not like, and what is more, I would not be Attorney-General if the post were offered to me to-morrow. A Voice : Why ? Mr. Travers : For the simple reason that it pays me a great deal better to practise as a lawyer. (Laughter.) As a matter of pounds, shillings, and pence, I am a great deal better off as Mr. Travers, solicitor, than I should be as Attorney-General. Moreover, lam too old for it. I want to go and amuse myself here and there in the field, and to take office under Government I should have to eradicate certain habits which have grown on me with years, and which are only to be torn out with a great deal of trouble. And I do not intend to try the experiment. Therefore, I am as independent as the day with respect to the Government. I have never asked the Government for a favor the worth of a straw to give ; and, if I had, I believe it would have been refused. I have no interest to serve whatsoever. I desire to have the honor of representing you in the House of Representatives, for I believe I could do some good, and carry into that House an experience which would enable me to be of real service to you. My independence is as perfect as any man who stands in shoe leather in New Zealand. I speak my sentiments freely and openly. If I see things going wrong, Ido not hesitate to say they are wrong ; and if right, I say they are right. These are my views, and I ask you to examine my career, such as it has been since I have been amongst you, to see whether I have ever been guilty of anything which justifies you in assuming that anything I have said to you to-night is otherwise than absolutely and perfectly true. I ask you to believe me, gentlemen, when I assure you that I will do my very best to serve you with such capacity as God has given me. (Applause.) The Chairman intimated that Mr. Travers would answer any questions that electors might desire to put. An Elector : Is any collision going to take place between you and Mr. Gisborne ? (Laughter.) Mr. Travers said lie thought the gentleman had made some mistake. He remembered seeing in the Times some time ago, a paragraph written by—well, perhaps, he should be committing a breach of etiquette by mentioning the gentleman’s name—he styled himself the “ Intelligent Vagrant,” and in telling the story, mentioned the names of gentlemen resident in Cork, with whom he (Mr. Travers) was acquainted, whence he assumed the writer to be a Cork gentleman, with whom he was likewise acquainted. But the writer of the story related how a certain party had confounded the words collision and collusion, and he (Mr. Travers) was reminded of the story by the question just put, the questioner evidently having made the same error. If the gentleman meant, was there any collusion between him and Mr, Gisborne, he might say there was none whatever. They might have in common many sentiments, but each was going in on his own hook.

An Elector : Are you in favor of bringing in a measure to place duty on exports ? Mr. Travers : Certainly not ; I am not in favor of putting on any export duties whatever. Hon. Mr. Waterhouse : There is one subject of considerable importance that you have not referred to, and upon which I should like to know your sentiments. What I wish to ask is, what are your opinions in reference to that most obstructive body, the Legislative Council ? Mr. Travers : If he might say so, the Legislative Council stands apparently rather low in the esteem of many persons in the colony. For myself, looking at the thing from a lawyer’s point of view, I think they have scarcely received the credit due to them in consideration of the work they have done. They appear to have worked exceedingly well, and although one might feel disappointment at the breaking down of a particular measure, he considered on the whole that the Council had done their work remarkably well. Ho bad remarked that the measures originated in the Council last session had received much less amendment than those which had originated in the House of Representatives. At the same time, he thought there was no reason whatever why the elective element should not be introduced into the constitution of that branch of the Legislature under proper safeguards. Thus, he did not consider it desirable to have a double code of representatives. If the second House was to be elected on the same principle and under the same circumstances as the House of Representatives, what in the name of fortune was the good of having two Houses ? If the advantage of having a second House was required, there ought to be some distinction in regard to the men who compose it. It appeared to him that the matter had not been properly thought out. They saw many men who would say the Councifought to be constituted on the elective principle, without being able to say why, or to suggest a scheme satisfactory to the people at large. One man would take age as a qualification, another property, another that they should be elected by a certain class of the electors, and so on. But no one appeared to have laid down a scheme on some broad basis for the benefit of those who might be disposed to consider it. His impression was that in a democratic country like ours, the elective principle ought, as far as possible, to be carried out, but he should not be prepared to disturb the existing character of the Legislative Council 'until he saw some scheme which would have the effect of replacing it by a body exercising a certain conservative control over the legislation of the House of Representatives. An elector wished to know the candidate’s opinion respecting the San Francisco mail service. Mr. Travers said he never did believe in that service, and he believed the present contract would meet the fate of its predecessor. The Governments of New South Wales and New Zealand were not likely to be reconciled. He entirely deprecated the action of the Government as authorized to enter into that contract. They had no business to exceed their powers, which were as limited as in the case of a private individual when authorized to carry out a certain work. His impression was that the whole thing had been messed. Mr. Travers then referred to a discussion of increased postal communication between New Zealand and England which took place in 1869, when a proposal was made for an extra line of communication so as to give us fortnightly mails from England with the aid of what was known as the Peninsula and Oriental line, and he remembered that he pointed out at the time what was mentioned to him by a gentleman resident in Queensland, that with such a service, and communication between this and Queensland, a considerable trade might be opened with the latter place. He went on to point out that the difference in the products of Queensland and New Zealand made the idea of an extensive trade between the two countries extremely feasible. The service which was at that time proposed would not open up a trade with Queensland, but with the Malayan Islands, and through to Singapore. Sir Julius Vogel, in referring to the proposal, had said the subject was one of great importance, and to which the Government would give a great deal of consideration; but notliing had been done from that date to this, and this miserable San Francisco service had been palmed off upon us at a cost of £40,000 a yeai\ An Elector: Are you in favor of increasing the number of representatives for Wellington '( Mr. Travers said that Wellington’s position was such as entitled it to additional representation, and further said that Wellington should be the port of arrival and departure of mail vessels. An Elector wished to know whether Mr. Travers was in favor of triennial Parliaments ? Mr. Travers did not consider the question of much importance, provided the electors obtained representatives of a satisfactory character. It would only entail more frequent elections and disturbance. But he considered it a matter of little importance. It would certainly give the constituents an opportunity of changing their representatives more often, if they felt so disposed, and if it was the general wish he should be quite prepared to support it. An Elector : Will you be prepared to adhere to abolition ? Mr. Travers said he had expressed himself on that subject. But he might say that he should think it unadvisable to do away with the provinces before they had something to put in their place. An Elector : Why don’t you propound something ? Mr. Travers : It is not my place to propound a scheme—that is the business of the Government. But you must not suppose that because I do not choose to propound a scheme that I have no opinion on the subject. Sir Julius Vogel asked me last year to draw up a scheme of local government, and he must have > thought I had some knowledge of the subject

or he would uofc have asked me. But for .some reason or other it fell through. Therefore, gentlemen must not suppose because I do not choose to lay before them a scheme that I have no opinion. Mr. Duncan proposed a vote of thanks to Mr. Travers for his address. (Cheers.) Mr. Travers then proposed a vote of thanks to the chairman, and the meeting dispersed.

SIR GEORGE GREY AT THE THAMES. (BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.) Grahamstown, Saturday. Sir George Grey addressed a meeting at the Theatre Royal this evening. The building was crowded, and Sir George was received with cheers, the people standing. Dr. Ivilgour and the Mayor were proposed for chairman. There were loud demands for the Mayor, who was called to fill the position, and responded. He. introduced Sir George, and regretted his arrival had not been made under more favorable circumstances, as he (the Mayor) would have been glad to have been present. Sir George was looked upon as able to fill the highest offices. They had differed with him on one essential point, and he might not expect such a reception as in Auckland. Sir George Grev (who was received again with loud cheers) said lie appeared as the Superintendent of Auckland, specially charged with their welfare. When asked to address them, he had distinctly stated that when asked to accept office as Superintendent he had fully explained his views. He now appeared again in the character of Superintendent to explain what had been done, and also what he conceived should be done with special regard to this mining district. He had seen that the Thames was scandalously represented, and had given their. one member every assistance to get this remedied. Differences existed between him and their member, but never on any question concerning the welfare of the Thames. It would have been impossible to do more to promote their interests than their member had done during the last session. With regard to their representation, three or even more members might have been given, but those in power determined they should only have two. With regard to. the future, lie would give their representatives every assistance, so that they might consider they would still have three representatives. As to the question of abolition and his line of conduct, he contended that the constitution and law of the empire required that such a change should not take place without an appeal to the constituencies. He and some powerful friends had succeeded in getting this. Their future destiny lay with them. Ilfs own views, after mutual reflection and conversations with master minds, he had explained. It was the duty of every good citizen to accept the form of government decided upon by the majority. When that was decided all should conform to it, and help to render the community prosperous—that course lie would pursue. Certain features should be insisted upon in the Constitution, and kept in view. There should be no secresy, and every action of the Government should be before the public eye, the fullest information being afforded regarding every transaction of a Government sitting at a distant locality, and with a newspaper press unable to disseminate information adequate to their requirements. [Here Sir George Grey referred to the lamia committee, and the difficulty attending the. circulation of reports.] Tu pursuance of their own interests they should try and obtain all possible information without delay. Referring to the acquisition of islands, he said in other countries he had been in, every information from day to day had been afforded. Unless. they had that they could not look after their own interests. The Superintendent here could not obtain this information, but it should be insisted upon. Another point was endowments. Seriously, he would say to all that endowments were taxes to be taken from tlieir profits. He objected to this on general principles. Taking the Middle Island and road board districts, occupied by farmers or lame pastoral tenants, those boards were only allowed to rate themselves at a certain amount; that was, they were not allowed to lay tlieir hands heavily on the large proprietors. He hoped that additional powers of taxation would be given, enabling them to get more from the large proprietors. Where in the Middle Island they raised one pound thus by taxation they would receive two pounds from the general revenue, or general taxation. They (the Thames people) in the midst of a native population would be able to raise only trifling sums from the one pound, as the natives would not allow them to make roads, and they would consequently get little from the two pounds. Their interest depended much upon this, and such a state of things might be altered by a tax on property. 110 then referred to the o-ood state of feeling between the Thames people and the natives, and said very little had been expended in their district on railways, and therefoie but little of borrowed money was spent there. Imagine a railway from 'this to the Waikato, and. its influence upon two important districts, its influence upon the commerce of the lhames, and the population it would attract to the Thames, and how it would lessen the chance of collision between the races; that was why he said they had claims upon the sympathy of the rest of Now Zealand. With regard to the gold duty lie had told them lie believed it should bo taken off. He had been told his proposal to do this was unpopular. (No, no, and cheers.) He had been told so in the Assembly. The reason alleged in favor of its maintenance had been the two pound subsidy for public works. He might bo wrong, but he did not believe that could have been paid more than one year at most. He had ever regarded the gold tax as most unfair, and had never heard anythin o, to the contrary. . Rather it was said that the°tax was easily levied, and the people were used to it. I he Treasurer said it only made a difference to the miner of fivepence a day. He (Sir George) said that was a loaf of bread, and then it was stated tf mistake had been

made. The difference was only three halfpence, and the money enabled them to be employed during winter, so he concluded that that was equal to taking from them in the summer to give it to them in winter. (Laughter.) He had tried to get that tax taken off, however, and proposed a tax of a halfpenny per pound on wool, on which a gentleman engaged in pastoral pursuits said his (Sir George’s) coming back to public life was the greatest misfortune that could have happened. He still believed the gold tax to be improper and injudicious, and that there was no excuse for such a tax, which had its origin in turbulent times and amongst a rowdy set of people where a large police force was necessary. To continue the tax was almost like giving them a bad name. He had also tried to get the taxes taken off the necessaries of life, for which they had called him hard names ; but eminent statesmen in England held the same views. These taxes entailed large expenses in collection, and the more taxation was simplified the better. He was told that in asking these things he was rendering himself obnoxious to tlio people of New Zealand. The taxation he had told them of, of course could be easily met. Enormous reductions could be made. A tax on property would bring larger sums and be easier collected. In considering their future and their representatives, they should bear in mind that a necessity existed for a change in the incidence of taxation and in the expenditure. At present they did not know what their expenditure was. There was one amount of £B,OOO in the Native Department, which could not be explained. When the estimates were passing questions had been asked, and the reply had been that some officer required an additional salary. This was one of the excuses. Block sums were voted, when full details should be given in estimates, and everything made clear. If no*-, these things would grow. These sums on the estimates were generally brought forward at au early hour in the morning, when the members were wearied out. He then referred to the constitution of committees of the Assembly, and the abuses which had led to the taking of power from Parliamentary committees, and given it to Judges. In England, no Minister concerned in an inquiry would go ou a committee, but here it was different, and committees were comprised of partymen. Perhaps it was not possible to get men interested on party matters to give impartial opinions, but some remedy should be conceived to obtain a thoroughly impartial tribunal to consider such matters. They were well aware of what they wanted, and could judge whether wliat he conceived should be done was best for their interests. Gold had been found in variable quantities. His conviction was that the best places for gold had never been struck, and that the best finds would be made in the next century or half century. The chance of making these finds would be greater according to the augmentation of population. How were they to increase the population? They had no land open, nor any labor to offer for a large influx of population ; but everything might be done to make this a great place. They had abundant tracts of good lands, but if they did not look out every acre would pass into private hands, and if tlie railway to the Waikato was not made, every acre along its route would also pass into private hands. They should, therefore, insist upon the immediate construction of that railway. If they were met with the reply that there was no money, there was another way. A survey of the line could be made, and an estimate given of the cost, and then Government could call for tenders, and guarantee 6 per cent, on the cost, Government reserving the right] to see the works carried out. Government would have to pay nothing at all, as companies he had seen had made such works pay, but even if 2 per cent, had to be paid the money would be well spent, and once that railway was made and the back country opened, he believed they would see that the land was not wrongly alienated. They would want farms for themselves. lie would advise the people of the lhames to aid him in carrying out such plans as lie had suggested, and get the railway made at once. (Cheers.) Another point he would refer to. All over the colony the people were bent on harbors in the most impossible . places. Here, unusual marine facilities existed for harbor works. How they were to obtain harbor works for the Thames was not difficult to determine. A real endowment (not taken from their pocket) was to be given to them. The foreshore was to be given o\ei for harbor and kindred works, which, in carrying out, would employ a considerable number of people. In carrying out such works they might employ a large laboring population, and with such works and tracks of land for settlement, population might be retained instead of being driven away. In Otago he could see the miners enjoying cottages and homesteads when tlieir gold ran out. There was a golden rule they should remember in all the future. Whatever the law said a man should have, that should he have. The law must be respected; but when men made claims on land for which there was no justification there could be no bearing them. If a man claimed afterwards compensation for some fancied wrong in dealing with the natives, why then investigate the claim, and give him money compensation if found equitable, but do not alienate the land wholesale in the way indicated, or in the way that had been done. Sir George then said lie had said what was nearest his' heart, what ho conceived to be most near to their interests, and in following out which lie believed would redound to thoir welfare. He had no desire to stir up party matters. He withdrew amidst great applause. A vote of thanks was moved, and a requisition numerously signed, asking Sir George Grey to stand for the Thames, was proposed to be presented. The motion was seconded. Mr. Bag nail, M.P.C., opposed the presentation of the requisition. Sir George, after some confusion and cries against Mr. Bagnall speaking, wished them good night, amid cheering and*a statement from one of his supporters that he would stand for the Thames.

THE HON. MR. RICHARDSON IN, CHRISTCHURCH. j Christchurch, Thursday. The Hon. E. Richardson addressed the electors of Christchurch last night. The Mayor was in the chair. Mr. Richardson said I that during the first two sessions after he had j been elected he had voted as an independent member, just as lie thought best for the colony in general ; and in 1872, being exceedingly hard pressed to join the Ministry, lie did so. During the five years that he had been a member for Christchurch he had been present at every sitting of the Assembly but one. While in the Ministry he had never taken steps to procure a favor for anybody, but had taken a perfectly independent course. He referred to the Registration of Electors Act passed last session, and said it would add materially to the number of electors, and save a great deal of trouble to a large portion of the community. From the first time he took a scat in the Canterbury Provincial Council lie had felt convinced of the great necessity for a considerable change in the form of government, and from that time lie had never lost an opportunity of endeavoring to get it simplified. The provincial combination in the Assembly had been a serious evil, frequently causing an expenditure of money when it was not required for years to come. The session before last resolutions had been carried affirming the desirability of the abolition of the provinces in the North Island, but during tho following recess the members of the Government travelled through the length and breadth of the colony, and found a general wish for an entire, instead of partial, abolition. On the Government meeting before the session of the Assembly, a Bill was, therefore, prepared to effect this. It had been freely stated [that this was only done at the" last moment, but the Bill was in print before the Assembly met. He gave a sketch of the circumstances and conditions under which the Bill was passed, and said he had not a doubt what the verdict of the people would be at the elections respecting abolition. Referring to the Local Government Bill, he said it was only intended as a tentative measure to tide over the time, and give way for a more comprehensive enactment next session. As the Abolition Bill would not take effect yet, the Local Government Bill was dropped ; but the Government having funds in hand, got the Assembly to vote one-half the amount to road boards and municipalities that they would have received under the Abolition Bill. The Government had never any intention to introduce the nominee system, of which so much had been said ; but as things would be in a state of transition from November till July (if the Abolition Bill had taken effect at once), the Government considered no one more fitted to assist them in making the required changes during this state of transition than the Super-, internments whom they found in office. The main point of the policy it was proposed to adopt in the future was to preserve the unity of the colony at any price. He did not himself believe in any form of separation, nor in any attempt to divide the colony into two or four provinces. He believed if this island were divided intotwoprovinces, they wouldhave more trouble, more ill-feeling existing', and more reasonable grounds of complaint on the part of the outlying districts than there is in provinces as they now exist. The Government propose to centralise to the very utmost the whole legistive power in the Assembly, and centralise the administrative power, and to put it as far as possible into the hands of the local boards and local governing bodies. The Local Government Bill, in course of preparation, proposes to at once divide the whole colony into shires, and these shires would be composed as far as possible of the present road boards. The question of the future electoral district boundaries will also be considered, and as far as they could see there will be no difficulty whatever in making electoral boundaries co-terminous with those of future shire counties. There was no reason whatever to suppose that there would be any difficulty in continuing in future the endowment which had been proposed. The road boards will get their £1 for £1 on the rates they levy from the consolidated revenue. Then the shire councils will be endowed, and as far as he could see the municipalities will get tlieir license fees, aud the endowment which lias been proposed. The Government saw that shire councils must be made attractive if they are to be composed of good men, and must have a reliable revenue. The revenue which they will have in the first place will be a proportion of tho land fund, the pound for pound ; and they will have also a power of rating for particular works, such as bridges and reclamation works, as described in the present Abolition Bill. The Government saw very clearly, that by these means shire councils—either individually or in combination with an adjoining one—would be in a better position to carry out larger works than tho road boards are in at present. After paying the charges that by law were chargeable on the land fund, the Government proposed that the residue be divided amongst the shire councils, to bo expended by them, or allocated by them amongst tho road boards or ridings of the shire councils, so that tho whole of the land fund accruing with the present provincial districts shall be kept in its entirety at tho disposal of tho local bodies. The Government also had in preparation measures for the purpose of generalising the laws on scab, impounding, and other subjects, and that alone, he thought, would be a boon to the whole country. With regard to the public works, the Government proposed to go on steadily with the completion of all works authorised by Parliament. They had authority to borrow beyond what was already raised, sufficient —or nearly sufficient—to complete all those works, and there was no reason whatever to suppose that those works will not be carried on successfully to the end. With regard to the future, Government saw no reason whatever to doubt that, if considered prudent, in another year money would bo forthcoming to steadily continue the larger works originally proposed in the public works and

immigration scheme, namely, the main trunk lines throughout tho country, until the whole of the original scheme was completed. With regard to immigration, the Government propose that a continuous steady stream of immigration be kept up, but only of such a nature as would be suited to the requirements of the various districts throughout the country. With regard to the railways now open and their paying capabilities, there was no reason to believe that, with the exception of one or two small lines, the railways will not do a great deal more than pay their ordinary expenses. In Canterbury the lines were paying very well. They were also paying admirably in Otago ; and the Government had reason to believe that, with one exception, in the North Island, the railways will pay two or three per cent, beyond tlieir working expenses. He was decidedly of opinion that Vogel’s estimate of £8,000,000 as tho worth of tho railways when constructed, including the provincial lines, was under rather than over the mark. Regarding the lands of the colony, it would be the duty of the Government to see that they were not sacrificed, and to do everything to assist in the settlement of the country, both in tho selection of land suitable for agricultural purposes and having them ready, as < they were doing now to a very considerable extent in tho North Island, for settlers, both on cash payments and on the deferred . payments system. With regard to the runs, he was of opinion that they should be fairly assessed ; then the first offer should be given to the existing holders of leases. If put up to auction it would lead to jobbery and corruption, and the formation of such rings as even America had hardly seen. It was the duty of the Government to see to a fair system of education, which must be purely secular, provided for every child ; also to provide by means of scholarships for higher education for children who distinguished themselves at the ordinary schools. A great deal had been said as to where the eiulownments were to come from. Now, his own individual opinion had been for years past that when once a system, sucli as had just been described, or one somewhat analagous was established throughout the country, the Government would be enabled largely to decrease the expenses of administration by consolidating the different offices throughout the colony. He could see, at all events in his own department and in other departments that lie had occasionally to look after, that enormous savings could be made if only the question was grappled with by a firm hand. He saw uo reason why the promises in the Abolition Bill should not he carried out in their entirety. The revenue would certainly afford it at present, and unless some calamity happened, he saw no reason why the revenue should not increase year by year. He said the railways in Victoria, which cost £26,000 per mile, were yielding per cent, on the total cost of the construction. Surely, therefore, it was very little to expect in this country, where the average cost was only about £6,000 per mile, that this will pay well personally. He strongly denied the statement of Rolleston on Tuesday night, that the members of Government were not in accord. There was an appearance of disagreement on the immigration question, but this was entirely due to the altered circumstances of the colony as compared with the time when Vogel was present. In reply to questions, he said the revenue of the colony was quite able to bear the contemplated expense on education, and therefore he was not in favor of a loan for school buildings. The Government had sufficient borrowing power to carry on the works for two years, and the question of more borrovvingmustbe decided after theD. If any necessity arose for taxation he would favor a property tax, not an income tax. He thought the present taxation operated as equally as any could. If any change occurred in the incidence of taxation, it would be in the direction of relieving the hare necessaries of life. He defended the sale of the Piako Swamp, and said a road had been made through it to enable the country to be settled, and thus greatly reduce the cost of the Armed Constabulary in that part of the country. He also stated that the land, had been sold in the same district by private persons at a much lower figure than that got for the swamp, as low as Is. 6d. per acre. The Government had not the slightest intention of taking any of the Canterbury land fund to spend in other provinces. At the close of his speech a vote of confidence was unanimously passed.