PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 85, 21 September 1872, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Fkiday, September 12th. The Council resumed fco-day at 2 p.m. ministerial statement. The Hon Mr SEWELL B aid that he could quite understand, irrespective altogether of the hint dropped by an hon member, that, this Council was desirous of knowing precisely what were the views of the Government before entering upon any public business. At the last meeting of Council he took occasion to make a brief statement, as to the circumstances of the formation of the new Government, which had taken place in consequence of the action of another branch of the Legislature. On that occasion he informed them that Mr Stafford had associated certain gentlemen along with him in the Government. Two of these gentlemen had had offices assigned to

them, viz, Mr D. Eeid, who had undertaken the office of Minister of Public Works, and Mr Gillies, who had undertaken the office of Colonial Treasurer. The other gentlemen were himself (Mr Sewell), Mr Curtis, and Mr Fitzherbert, who had joined Mr Stafford's Ministry ; but at that time no definite arrangement had been made as to the offices which they should hold. He (the speaker) was now in a position to supplement that information. He himself had undertaken the office of Colonial Secretary. Mr Curtis had undertaken that of Commissioner of Customs, and Telegraphic Commissioner, and Mr Fitzherbert had undertaken an office which he (the speaker) was extremely glad to find had been again brought back within Ministerial responsibility, viz., Secretary of Crown Lands. That office—the secretaryship of Crown lands —required two words of explanation at his hands as it had been made the subject of remark outside the Housa. It was an office held until within the last few days by Mr Moorhouse, but tfcat gentleman had seen fit to tender his resignation. It was with very deep regret and against the earnest solicita- ■ tions of the Government that Mr Moorhouse resigned the office. Still he (Mr Moorhouse) was the best judire of what ought to be done, and accordingly his resignation was accepted. The office was therefore placed at the disposal of the Government, and the Government had lightly and in accordance with his views decided to place it under the responsibility of a Minister. This office had now been placed on the footing it originally occupied. After naming various parties by whom it had been filled, the speaker went on to say that Mr Fitzherbert was a gentleman of large experience in this important branch of public affairs and that that experience would be of great assistance to them in dealing with matters I affecting the waste lands of the Crown. He had always urged upon the Council the importance of having some person in the Government responsible for, and representative of, matters affecting the Crown lands. He might also say that it was the intention of the Government to add another gentleman to their number, whose duty it would be to assist him in conducting the affairs of that Council. The two departments Native and Defence, had not been filled up, and they would for the present be retained under the direction of Mr Stafford. The speaker went on to say that it was the intention of the Government to give the Maori population a further share in the general conduct of the affairs of the country. They had already made a successful step in that direction by introducing a native representative into the other branch of the Legislature. The intention would be given effect to by admitting some member of the Maori race into this branch of the Legislature, and it was the desire of the Government if possible to secure their assistance in the actual administration. It was not intended that persons of the native race should take their places as ordinary members. They would partake more of the character of ministerial assessors, persons of position amongst the natives, and in whom the natives had confidence, who could convey to Ministers reliable information as to the mind of the native race in reference to questions affecting their interest. This intention the Government intended giving effect to so soon as circumsiances would permit. Th Coui;cile would understand from these remarks that it was the desire of the Government to bring persons of position, and in whom the Native race had cor fidence info direct and immediate relations with the administration of the colony. In reference to the course Government proposed to adopt, the speaker said that they were hopeful that they would be able to bring the work of the session to a close in the course of another month. (Laughter.) The estimates would be brought down as soon as possible, which he believed would be within the next week. These would, of course, be based upon the calculations of their predecessors. In framing these estimates he could assure them that it was the earnest desire of the Cabinet to proceed in the direction of, and with strict regard to, the principles of retrenchment. He could assure the Council of an earnest and sincere conviction on the part of the Government of the necessity that, existed for proceeding in that direction One great object of the Government would be, he might go the length of saying must be, if possible, to bring the ordinary expenditure within the ordinary revenue. (Hear, hear.) To accomplish that object earnest and careful consideration would be required. A Commissioner would be appointed to review and revise, recommend and inquire into the whole system of the civil service of the colony. It would be out of the question for a single member to undertake such an onerous duty, and it was that reason which induced the Government to propose that the work should be delegated to a Commissioner, with the view of bringing about a very large diminution of the public expenditure of the colony. That intention would be given effect to as soon as

possible, when he would be in a position to lay before the Council a faithful account, so far as he was able, of the financial condition of the colony. They had no fear whatever of the ultimate resources of the colony, but their object would be, as it always had been, to reduce their expenditure, so as to bring it within their income. He promised the Council that an opportunity would be given to discuss the whole financial state of the colony. He would also bring, at the earliest possible moment, statements showing the present condition of the public works of the colony the portions undertaken and the portions executed, as these were provided for by the Acts of 1870-71. In reference to these matters, they would be aware that railway works formed by far the largest portion. In view of the liability The colony was gssuming, he was aware that many hon members were anxious to know what prospect there was of theee works being carried out successfully. He proceeded to say that the term public works policy was a misnomer, and that properly speaking, it was a colonising scheme that was aimed at. No doubt the prosecution of public works was very essential for the furtherance of that great work, but they were only a part of it. As a practical matter of usiness, he would call the attention of the Council to this fact. By the Loan Acts passed in 1870 the Government was authorised to raise-some four millions of money. Of that four millions only two were available for the construction of railways. Of that available amount three-fourths of >'t had been either actually spent or else engaged to meet contracts or at all events is otherwise necessary for such contracts ; therefore we have only about one-fourth of the original amount of two millions available for any further railway works. He need not point out to the Council that this available fund was too limited—in fact, there could be no question that it was inadequate for the large undertaking that have parliamentary sanction. Already three-fourths of the amount had been expended, and they had only the remainder to complete the works. He might say that it will be the anxious desire of the Government to give effect to the policy as originally contemplated to the utmost extent, and by every legitimate means. How to accomplish this object with ouch limited ways and means at their disposal was a matter which was engaging the earnest attention of the Government. There were two points upon which they were ready to give an assurance to the Council. First, that no new contracts would be entered into for the erection of railway works at an expense beyond the limit authorised by Parliament; nor would they enter into con tracts without Parliamentary authority. If it should at any time appear that the Parliamentary limit was insufficient for the works contemplated they would make it a point of going to Parliament and asking for more. The speaker next alluded to the Brogden contracts. These contracts were of a complicated nature. The original contract gave to the Messrs Brogden the right to construct railways to the extent of £500,000 upon the guarantee principle. That contract received Legislative sanction, but it was afterwards varied by an agreement, which proposed to place in Brogden's hands con tracts to the amount of £700,000. The agreement was that they should not only be offered contracts to that amount but they had also to be accepted, and not until that acceptance had taken place, was the Government discharged from the original contract. I am not. he went on to say, going to enter fully into the question of these contracts, but I believe that contracts short of the stipulated amount have been offered to Messrs Brogden. Hon Mr Hail : No, no.

Mr SEWELL: There is at all events some dispute with Brogden as to whether or not Government has fulfilled the agreement. Whether they can maintain their ground and fall back upon the fulfilment of that contract was, he said, a question for the lawyers and not for him to decide. Between the AttorneyGeneral and Messrs Brogden's lawyer he understood that there was a difference of opinion on the point. After further allusion had been made to the point the speaker proceeded to say —that it was in the contemplation of the Government to come to a fair and honest arrangement with the Messrs Brogden. It was very likely that when they came to a fair and open discussion they would be able to arrive at some understanding without incurring any great sacrifice to the colony. Regarding the North Island roads it was iu the contemplation of the Government to caviy out the engagement entered into, by applying £15,000 this year out of the £60,000. Water races were next mentioned, and these were designated one of the more important branches of the public works policy and as such it would receive their earnest consideration. Regarding the question of immigration, he had ascertained that 8000 immigrants were expected to arrive from Europe. The Agent- General in recent advices had expressed an opinion that he would be unable to complete the whole supply. The speaker was understood to say that he had ascertained that during the current year 4000 might be expected to arrive. Hon members would ask how these immigrants were to be placed when they did arrive. He had made inquiries as to the preparation made for their settlement, and he found that some two or three settlements had been provided at Hawke's Bay. At Masterton a certain number were proposed to be located. ' So far as he could form an opinion these places would not exhaust the whole 4000, but the ordinary labor market of Canterbury and Otago would, he believed, absorb what he would call the unallocated portion of the immigrants". Begarding the business of the session, he said that the Government was anxious to reduce it to what was absolutely necessary to be got done. DuriDg the recess, if they continued to

hold office, they proposed devoting their attention to a number of useful measures, amongst others, an Education Bill was mentioned, which they hoped to bring forward next session. It was not proposed to interfere with the educational arrangements at present in force, but simply to provide a system for places at present excluded from educational privileges. These few remarks would, he thought, convey to them a general idea of the line of policy propesed to be followed. A Voice-—What about the restoration of the confiscated lands. # Mr SEWELL: It is, I believe, the intention of the Government to carry out the views expressed by my colleague Mr Stafford. The Hon Mr MILLER said that he had listened to the speech of the hon gentleman with pleasure, and" he was glad to heap that it was their intention to give effect to so much that had been projected by their predecessors. (Hear, hear ) On one point, however, he desired to set him right, viz., the contracts let to the Messrs Brogden. Contracts to the full amount of the £700,000 had been let, and he was sorry to hear that there was any doubt whatever on the point. It would no doubt suit the interests of the contractors to raise such doubts, but they had had distinct advice from the Attorney-General that contracts to that amount had been let by the Government, and it would be very unfortunate indeed if the Government did not take its stand upon that point. With regard to the appointment of Secretary of Crown Lands, he wished to be advised whether it was to be a political appointment or not.

Mr SEWELL: Absolutely so. Mr HALL: Just so. Then the point about the two millions of money as stated by my hon friend. I wish to take exception to that statement, although I wish it to be distinctly understood that I am not prepared to debate the question just now. The speaker went on to say that the next point upon which he desired further information, was one conspicuous for its absence in the speech of the hon member, viz., the extent to which provincial or local machinery was to be emoloyed in carrying out the public administration. He trusted that in answering this question, he would not answer it as he had done the one put in reference to the confiscated land. (Hear, hear.) The other point upon which they might reasonably expect further information was, the number of Superintendents, who formed such a conspicuous part of the Government. (Hear, hear.) He thought it was the duty of the hon gentleman to tell them when that anomalous state of things was to cease. The Hon Mr WATERHOUSE said that it was his settled determination to identify himself with neither one party nor another. He determined to maintain the position of an independent member. That explanation was necessary, from the position in which he had been placed, within the last few days. There were two points to which he desired to drrect attention. He could not sit down without expressing regret that his hon friend had undertaken his present position with so much unseemly haste. There was, he believed, nothing in the circumstances of the case to prevent him joining the Government. A good deal of explanation, however, was required as regards the past and also as rpspects the future. His (Mr Sewell's) unseemly haste in this matter had not only injured himself, but it had injured the Government with which he was connected. (Hear, hear ) Another point of great importance to the politics of the country was, the hon member's sentiments with respect to the unity of the colony. Before joining the Ministry there ought to have been no uncertain utterances on this point, and it was well known that immediately prior to that event, a wide difference of opinion between him and the Government existed. For himself, the speaker concluded by repeating that he did not intend to identify himself with either party. If the one side did what was right he would support it, and if it did wrong he meant to call attention to the fact. The Hon Mr SEWELL replied. He Baid that if he understood his hon friend, or rather his candid friend, aright, the charge brought against him was that in joining the Government he had acted precipitately and with an unseemly greed for office. He was glad that the remarks of the hon gentleman had afforded him an opportunity for speaking out on the matter. He would have liked verj much to have stated before the Council the circumstances under which he join?d the late Government. He had requested permission from Mr Fox to make use of letters which had passed between them, but he (Mr Fox) had insisted upon these letters being observed as Cabinet secrets. The hon gentleman (Mr Waterhouse) had led every one to expect, up to the last moment, that he would join the Government. He (Mr Sewell) could assure them that it was at considerable personal sacrifice he occupied his present position ; but the hon gentleman had led Mr Stafford to believe, up to within an hour and a half or two hours, that he would join his Ministry. Mr WATERHOUSE : There is no foundation whatever for that statement.

Mr SEWELL then proceeded to rebut the imputation that he had been animated by a greed for office, and in doing so he enumerated the various Governments of which he had been a member, and the various causes which induced him to join those Governments, as also secede from them. After the Hon Mr Hall had spoken in support of the opinion that there had been undue haste exhibited by Mr Sewell in joining the Government the orders of the day wero proceeded with. The Interpretation Act Amendment Bill and the Disqualification Act Amendment Bill were read a second time, and the of Animals Act Amendment Bill and the Drawbacks Bill were read a third time. The Insolvency Bill was further considered in committee. The Council then adjourned.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. | Friday, 13th September. The Speaker took the chair afc half-past 2 o'clock. PETITIONS. A number of petitions were presented and received. LEAVE OE ABSENCE. On the motion of Major Jackson, fourteen days' leave of absence was granted to Mr Buckland. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. Mr STAFFORD, in further explanation of the Ministerial arrangements, na d to inform the House that the hon member for Nelson City, Mr Curtis, had been appointed to the office of Comptroller of Customs and Stamps, and temporarily to tbe offices of Telegraph Commissioner and Po=trnaster-General. The Hon Mr Sewell would hold the office of Colonial Secretary, the entire correspondence with the Agent-General being left entirely to this department. In that way the whole of the records with tbe Agent-General would be kept in one office, and the chain of communication would be undisturbed, the undesirable system of issuing instructions from more than one office resulting, as hon members were aware, in confusion and inconvenience. The Government proposed to separate the duty of supervising the immigration arrangements from tbe public works office, because they believed the character of the duties connected with the public works were such as to require the undivided attention of one Minister, and also that thelarge and important duties in connection with the emigration scheme were properly those which one Minister should have under his entire cognisance and control. The question of the settlement of the emigrants was one which, in tbe opinion of the Government, tbe success or otherwise of tbe emigration scheme almost entirely depended. These duties would be controlled by the member for Hutt (Mr Fitzherbert), who would also include in the duties of his department an investigation into the state of the surveys of the colony, with a view to the initiation of a reliable and uniform system. He did not mean to say that where the departments of the provinces had instituted surveys on differentscales, thatnecessarily the whole of tbe accumulated information and plans of those departments should be thrown aside, but it was necessary that a trigonometrical or some other scientific survey should be completed, so that there should be a uniformity throughout the colony, which would prevent overlappingof boundaries. The supervision of the Crown Lands department would also be under the control of Mr Fitzherbert. He should not have thought it necessary to make any further announcement than that had it not been for the appearance of certain articles in a local paperwhich.to usewordsbefitting the occasion, were altogether without foundation. Those statements were two in number. First, that the resignation of the Secretary for Crown Lands (Mr Moorhouse) was caused by the action taken or the. proceedings about to be token by the Government in reference to that office, which was held by him along with others. He had to say with reference to that statement that there was not one word of foundation for it whatever. Mr Moorhouse carried his resignation about with him in his pocket before the new Ministry was formed, and he had not been sitting long on those benches when he received the resignation, a circumstance of which his colleagues were not aware till sometime afterwards. No action had been taken, nor was there any intention to take any action with reference to the office of Commissioner of Crown Lands. The fact of MrMoorhouse sending in his resignation was a complete surprise to him (Mr Stafford) and his colleagues. So far were they from desiring that Mr Moorhouse should resign that they allowed three days to pass over after the receipt of the resignation during which two Ministers and himself (Mr Stafford) urged his withdrawal of his resignation, but Mr Moorhouse, with a persistency peculiar to him, refused to reconsider his determination, and it was after this conversation that the Government were reluctantly compelled to accept his resignation. The second statement was that the object of appointing Mr Fitzherbert to the control of the Crown Lands Department was to enable him to secure a permanent office in the event of a change of Ministry. There was not one particle of truth in the statement, and he might take the opportuiity of saying that he so entirely disapproved of the initiation of a system of securing permanent offices, as wns the case with the last Ministry, that he would make it a pledge on the part of the Government to the House that in no possible way would they countenance any such action as permitting a defeated Minister to run to e»rth. The question of the location of emigrants, when not employed soon after arrival either on the public works, or being absorbed by private industries, would occupy largely the attention of the Emigration Minister. In doing so it was not the desire of 'he Government to ignore altogether the advice and assistance of the Provincial Governments in the location of the emigrants ; that was a matter in which there would be consultation and a desire to forward the best interests of the provinces and the colony alike. How far the amount of that immigration might be maintained, or increased, or diminished, was a question which the House must admit the Government had not had time to come to a decision upon. It was a question upon which they would require a considerable amount of information. They must know how far the public works in the provinces would absorb the additional labour to be brought into the country; and Ahere were many other questions to be considered to which the attention of the House had not as yet been invited ; more consideration, in fact, would have to be devoted by the House to this portion of the scheme than to any other portion of the policy which bad been before it

for the past two years. He would next draw the attention of the House to the fact that the Government was formed with the understanding on the part of its members that they would endeavor to secure the unity of the colony with its seat of Government at Wellington. There were at the present time two questions on the order paper the effect of either of which would be, if carried, to destroy the unity of the colony. He had himself from the very first time when he took part in the public affairs of New Zealand maintained the propriety of building up a country which should become one great state hereafter, and he had always directly opposed any attempt which would bring about any other result. He had not up the present time been able to convince himself whether he should change the opinion which he had so consistently adhered to ; at the same time he was free to admit that there was a certain amount of discontent prevailing at present, and that for years past there had been at various times a considerable amount of dissatisfaction expressed, first at the extreme north, and again at the extreme south, which had led to a demand for insular separation. There might have been some cause which had given grounds for that feeling, and the Government proposed cavefully to consider during the recess whether the establishment of a machinery for the removal of any reasonable ground of discontent could not be arranged. With reference to public works, that was to say the works which bud been authorised by the House, it was the desire of the Government to see those works completed as soon as there were funds to do so ; but it was strongly evident to them, and he had no doubt the feeling was evident to many members of the House, that there was not now anything like the funds necessary to complete tbe whole of the lines authorised in the schedule to the Railway Act, 1871. The lines already contracted for, or for which estimates had been received, had absorbed already very considerably more than one-half, in fact, more nearly approaching three-fourths of the whole of the funds set apart for the construction of the whole of the railways—that was to say, of the whole of the £2,000,000, the sum set aside for public works. When the departmental charges, and the interest which had hitherto been charged against the loan, were added to the works contracted for, and the estimates of the works yet to be contracted for, and the cost of plant aad rolling stock—which he thought the colony would have reason to rejoice would be obtained before the lapse of any considerable time, at a price much below anything like the estimate of the ex-Minister for Public Works —when these charges were made against the public works account, it would be found that, a very small sum remained to carry out the works yet to be undertaken. The Government would, therefore, have to consider what means would have to be taken to raise the money to complete the works which the Legisature had decided should be constructed sooner or later. Until the method of raising these funds had been determined the Government did not propose to enter into any new contracts which would involve a larger expenditure than the amount at present available, and in no case whatever would they enter into contracts for amounts beyond those authorised by the Parliament of the colony. Whatever sums the Legislature might think proper to appropriate for these o>' any future railways, the Government would pledge itself not to exceed those sums without further reference to the Legislature. The Government proposed, as fast as the work could be entered into, to devote themselves to the expenditure of the £60,000 voved for roads in the north of Auckland. They would lose no time in inviting tenders, and he might say that they had determined, where they were not emharassed by exiting engagements, to secure all the benefits to the colony that were to be secured by giving the work out to public competition. His own views in reference to native affairs would be given effect to by the Government. They could not hope, bearing in mind the length to which the session'had attained, and the little practical work that had passed through the House, that the Legislature would take up the consideration of any large or new subject. They were fast aporoaching that period of the year beyond which it would bo impossible to keep a full House, and the Government hoped there would not be any necessity to prolong the session beyond another month. With this view they proposed to accept generally the estimates which had been laid before the Hpuse by the late Government in order to avoid the delay which would be involved if they had to recast the estimates. If the House desired the Government to frame new estimates it would be necessary to adjourn for at least a week, in order to examine into the departmental expenditure; but while they were prepared to accede to that if the House thought fit to do so, they would prefer that the old estimates should be taken, and the Government would endeavor in their passage through committee, wherever they had sufficient information to justify them in doing so, to reduce them as much as possible. It would always be their endeavor to bring the ordinary and normal expenditure of the country within its ordinary revenue, and to avoid adding to the floating debt of New Zealand. The Government were, in common with other members of the House, aware that there was a strong feeling existing in reference to this subject, which appeared to the Go vernment to require a thorough investigation with a |view to a better organisation of the civil 'service than at present obtained. 'They recognised that some departments had been created unnecessarily, and with more or less haste in connection with the policy of 1870, and that other departments had grown up whichjhadevoked great dissatisfaction through out many parts of the colony. The Government believed that that dissatisfaction should

be examined into, and it appeared to them that the most satisfactory examination that could be made would be by an examination made under the authority of a Parliamentary Commission. They therefore proposed to invite the House to establish this commission, which would inquire into the conduct of the departments of the civil service during [the recess, and make a report with a view to remedying the matter next session. With reference to the bills at present before the Legislature a considerable number of them were bills introduced by the late Government he had no doubt upon good and sufficient reasons, and some of them it would be desirable to give effect to this session. There was one bill of very considerable importance —the Public Revonues Bill. The principle of that bill the Government entirely agreed with, but they would nsk a few days before they determined in what shape they should invite the House to give effect to it. They did not think there were any other questions which would involve any action during the present session to which it was necessary to refer at that moment. There were some important bills, however, which would come on during the next session, such as a Bill to amend the Native Lands Act, a new Mining Act, and a new Education Bill — not a bill to supersede existing machinery, but such a one as would ensure that, the elements of instruction should be taught in all parts of New Zealand. They did not intend to upset any good system at present in existence. In Otago there was an efficient system in operation, which so far came up to the status required for imparting elementary instruction to the people. In Canterbury there had been a considerable change in the teaching system, and they were about to introduce a system analogous to that which had been in operation in Neison for a number of years past. In regard to other parts of the country where there is no efficient teaching system it was thought advisable there should be in existence some such bill as he had spoken of for the purpose of providing a machinery for the establishment of elementary schools. The Government considered the state of the gaol discipline throughout the colony a subject which required consideration, but they would not absolutely pledge themselves to bring in a bill for dealing with that subject, though they would pledge themselves to introduce the bills he had already mentioned. They thought, however, that the question of gaol discipline was one that should be carefully looked into, because from all accounts, the present system was very deficient in proper classification and arrangement of prisoners. They were strongly of opinion that it was most desirable that there should be special gaols to which offenders sentenced for life, or for very long terms, should be committed, altogether apart from those criminals sentenced to short periods of imprisonment for offences of a less heinous character. What he had stated with reference to the views of the Government on the unity of the colony, would at once point to the action the Government proposed to take this session with reference to the motions of the hon member for Port Chalmers and the hon member for Dunedin (Mr Reynolds), and on the coming on of both thosemotions, the Government would ask the House to meet them with the " previous question " In that way they would be left open to discussion during the recess, and would not be absolutely rejected by the House. He did not wish the House to suppose for one moment that the Government were favorably disposed or prepared to consider any question which would prevent the colony being governed as one people. The Government were aware that a very considerable discontent existed on the West Coast, at all events on that portion of it comprised within the Nelson South-West Goldfields. What the special cause of that discontent was, he did not himself profess to know, nor did his colleagues possess any superior information to himself, with the exception perhaps of his colleague, the member for Nelson City (Mr Curtis); and he (Mr Stafford) was bmnd to state that he (Mr Curtis) did not share the belief that there were sufficient causes for that discontent. However that discontent may have been caused, the fact that it had existed for a considerable period was sufficient to warrant the Government in going into a full examination of the matter with a view to administering the government in a manner more acceptable to the inhabitants of that part of the colony. He had not seen the Westland Bill, but if that bill proposed to create anything like a new province on the Westland goldfields he was prepared to say at once that he did not think the measure was one that would be likely to conduce to the good government ot that portion of the colony. He thought there were other and better means of establishing good government providing for the collection of the revenue and in that portion of the colony than would be established by any system such as that to which he had referred. He was not aware that there was any other subject to which he ought to refer at the present time, but of course during the session subjects would arise for discussion which would enable the Government to express their views on special questions in a definite form. ' Mr T. L. SEEPHKRD asked the Premier whether the Goldfields Bill at present before the House would be proceeded with. He had received many communications from his constituents, who stated that the bill would be utterly unworkable.

Mr STAFFORD replied that the Government did not intend to proceed this session with the bill on account of the want of time. He might state that they intended to distribute, before the next session, the proposed Goldfields Bill, the proposed Native Lands Bill, and if possible also the Educatiou Bill. They certainly would promise to distribute the Goldfields Bill and the Native Lands Bill throughout tbe country before the session commenced, so as to enable an expression of

opinion to be made in reference to those bills. They Would also translate the Native Lands Bill into Maori, so as to enable the natives of the country to have some voice in the shaping of its provisions. It was also possible that they would consider the question of the insolvency laws, but in remarking upon that question ho wished it to be understood, speaking for himself only, that he thought it unlikely that any bill on the subject would give general satisfaction, and he should not therefore be disappointed if any new bill failed to give the benefits it might be intended to confer. At the same time he would promise that the Government would consider the matter during the year with a view to an amendment of the present law. Mr VOGEL inquired whether the Government intended to go on with the measures introduced by the late Government, which, he observed, were high up on the order paper. Mr STAFFORD replied that he was not prepared to say that the Government would take up the whole of them, but there were some which the Government would take up. The Telegraph Notice Bill would be a very useful measure and would be gone on with. The Civil Service Bill the Government did not think it desirable to take up this year ; •<■ that was to say, if the House gave them permission to appoint the commission asked for. The Stamp Duties Bill they also proposed to go on with, and it was their intention also to give further effect to it by making a proposal to remit the duty on cheques as well as on receipts. They believed the revenue had positively suffered by the imposition of that duty, and in making that statement he did so on the authority of information supplied to him by bankers and others, who stated most emphatically that there had been a great loss of revenue by the imposition of the twopenny receipt stamp—that where ten cheques used to be drawn, there was not one cheque now drawn. The result had been that great inconvenience had been caused to people, who preferred to run the risk of keeping large sums of money in their houses. The Maori Representation Bill they proposed to go on with, but they were not prepared to extend the representation to the number asked for in the motion of the hon member for Rodney; they proposed only to go to the extent of granting an additional member to the Bay of Plenty and the Waikato districts. The Electoral Bills were bills which required very great consideration, and the Government were not at that moment prepared to say what they would do with those bills ; and he could only make the same remark in regard to the Fisheries Bill. THE RANGITATA BRIDGE. Mr REID, in reply to a question by Mr G. B. Parker —as to whether he had in his possession the reports of various,surveys of the Rangitata bridge, with a view to railway crossing—said the Government had in their possession renorts from various engineers in regard to the work. One of the reports, that of Mr. Doyne, had been specially ordered in the Legislative Conncil, and the other reports he was prepared to lay on the table. The other one also would be placed on the table as soon as ifc came into his possession. GOLD-MINING BILL. Mr. STAFFORD, in answer to a question by Mr. Bradshaw in reference to the Gold Mining Bill, said the hon gentleman, doubtless, had heard him state that in the opinion of the Government there would not be time to give the subject this session the attention it deserved. The Government fully recognised that the very important industry which had borne so much of the burdens of the colony on its shoulders should be treated with the greatest consideration, and they would take care in the preparation of a bill to remove the disadvantages under which that industry laboured, but the bill could not be introduced this session. UNIFICATION OE -WESTLAND. Mr HARRISON, in asking the Government if it was their intention to bring in a bill during the present session for the unification of the West Coast goldfields, and, if not, whether they would support a measure for that purpose, said he might make the remark that it would be a-source of great disappointment to the people of the West Coast to learn that it was not, the intention of the Government to bring in a bill to effect the object to which his question related. After the statement made by the hon member at the head of the Government he merely asked the question in a formal way for the purpose of having an opportunity of expressing that opinion. Mr STAFFORD would merely repeat the statement that it was not the intention of the Government to introduce during the present session any bill having for its object the making of constitutional changes. PRIVILEGE. The Speaker having ordered the Sergeant-at-Arms to procure the attendance of Mr John Martin, Mr Martin was placed at the bar of the House and addressed by the Speaker. The SPEAKER : John Marl in, it has been made to appear to this honorable House that at some time recently you said that you had made an application to the Wellington Waste Lands Board for a block of land held by a certain member of this House—Mr Andrew —and that in making that application you intended to make Mr Andrew pay fur a vote which he had given in this House last session. The House has directed that you should attend here to-day, and will give you an opportunity of making any statement you may wish to make in respect to this matter. The House will now hear any statement you have to make. Mr Martin : In the first place I deny positively that my action in applying to purchase land on Mr Andrew's run at Whareama was dictated by a malicious intent to injure that gentleman. The fact is, the land having been in the market for several years, and being still open to public tender, in applying to purchase as I did I was only acting in

accordance with the land laws of this province. I do not deny that I said I was paying Mr Andrew out for a vote given by him last session, but I beg to say that the words were used more in jest than otherwise. If the Home desires it I will mate a full apology. Mr FOX (through the Speaker) wished to tisk Mr Martin whether previously to making the application for the land in question he had any communication with any member of the House. Mr Martin : Very possibly I had. I knew that the land was open to selection on the 12th August, and I might have said that there was going to be land put up at 5s an acre, and that I was going to buy it. Mr SOX asked whether in any communication with any member of the House Mr Martin intimated his intention to havo revenge on an hon member for what he bad done. Mr Martin : Not to my knowledge. I have not the slightest animosity towards Mr Andrew. The SPEAKER: Mr Martin having expressed his regret for his action the proper course would b 9 that he should withdraw till the House decides upon the course to be taken in the matter. Mr J. E. BROWN, before Mr Martin withdrew, would like to ask whether he would be willing to waive his right to purchase the land. Mr Martin : I have no objection at all as far as that is concerned ; not the slightest. A.long discussion-followed, and ultimately the final decision was postponed till Tuesday, to give Mr Martin an opportunity of carrying out his promise to withdraw from the transaction SECOND READINGS. The Telegraph Service of Notices Bill and the Forest Trees Planting Encouragement Act Amendment Bill were read a second time. STAMP DUTIES ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr CURTIS moved the second reading of ■this bill, which reduces the duty on cheques to one penny. The Government also proposed to introduce a" clause when in committee, reducing the amount on cheques from twopence to one penny. Amongst other exemptions would be included the remission of receipts given by associations from stamp duties. It also makes remissions in the cases of saw mills, flour mills, and flax dressing factories managed by companies, and also in the case of docks, slips, friendly societies, &c. The bill was read a second time. POST OFFICE ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr CURTIS moved the second reading of this bill, the object of which is to reduce the amount of postage on newspapers to one halfpenny. Mr REYNOLDS asked if the PostmasterGeneral could not abolish the amount altogether. Mr STAFFORD said the object of the retention of the halfpenny was to meet the expense of inland carriage. Sir J. C. WILSON opposed the reduction altogether, but The second reading was agreed to. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. Mr GILLIES said the object of this bill was, as bad been already stated by the late Treasurer, to introduce a more strict supervision over the keeping of the accounts, under which nc account could be paid without being submitted to a board, to consist of the Colonial Treasurer, the Controller, and the Auditor-General, so that those frequent jarrings between the Controller's and Auditor's department, which had given rise to much incovenience shoald be entirely avoided, and greater facility and regularity afforded. He quite agreed with the object of the late Treasurer in introducing the bill, which would, he had no doubt, be a very useful measure, and would afford a great deal of security and •satisfaction. Mr VOGEL was glad the hon member had spoken of the bid in so favorable a manner, and wouldpoint out to himt hat the chief object of the bill was to keep the advanee accounts within convenient limits, and not to allow them to spread out to such an extent as to make it impossible to get in the advances at a time when it was necessary that the accounts should be made up. He would say to the hon member that he should have the advance accounts called in quarterly. After some other remarks the hon member again remarked that it gave him great pleasure to -find that the incoming Government regarded the bill so favorably. The bill was then read a second time. GOLDFIEEDS BILL. Mr STAFFORD moved the second reading of this bill which gives effect to the resolution of the House for the reduction of the duty on gold to 2s per ounce. Mr HARRISON hoped the Govern-ment, in instituting the inquiries during the recess of which the Premier had given intimation, would bear in mind in any proposals they might make for the future administration of government in the County of Westland that by the bill now under discussion its revenues had been decreased by from £6OOO to £7OOO perannum, thus reducing still further the powers of the local administration to carry out their functions, seeing that the goldfields revenue was their main source of income. After a few remarks from Mr White, the bill was read a second time. The House then adjourned. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, August 17. The Council resumed to-day at two p.m. DUNEDIN CEMETERY BILL. The Hon Mr PATERSOI? moved the second reading of the North Dunedin Ceme- • tery Bill. In doing so he stated that the want of additional cemetery accommodation was very much felt in Dunedin, adding that 'the bill in question was introduced for the

express purpose of providing for an existing want.

The Hon Colonel BRETT objected to the bill in respect that it was sought to set apart certain lands within the town belt of Dunedin for the object in view. He pointed out that the practice now followed in towns and cities was to have cemeteries beyond the town boundaries. The objection, however, was not insisted upon, and the bill was read a second time. NATIVE LANDS FRAUD.

The Hon Mr RUSSELL moved " That any further reports from the Commissioner under the Native Lands Fraud Prevention Act for the province of Hawke's Bay, including his decision in the Heretanga case, be laid on the table." He wished to take this opportunity of saying a few words on a matter personal to himself and connected with the papers in question. He was made aware that hon gentlemen had during the last few months had their attention assiduously directed, by means of the newspapers under the influence of interested parties, and in other ways, to a case which he brought before the Native Lands Boards Prevention Commissioners. It was his intention on first arriving] in Wellington to have made a full' statement to the Council on the sub- '■ ject, but he was dissuaded from doing so by several hon gentlemen to whom he mentioned hi? intention and who consulted other hon members on the point. His legal adviser had also strongly objected to his doing so, as it would have obliged him to enter into explanations, which, in the present initiatory step of these proceedings, might seriously prejudice the case which is being brought into the Supreme Court to have the case fairly tried on its merits. In consequence however of a reference to the matter by one of the parties interested, made in another place, where the statement was sheltered by privilege, and where he (the speaker) had no opportunity of defending himself, and made in a manner which would leave hon gentlemen to form their own opinion, he thought it was due both to himself and to the Council to take public notice of the matter. The case, as presented to the Commissioners, was confined to what was understood to be necessary to obtain his certificate, viz, to show that the deed was a fair transaction between the natives and the Europeans, who were the immediate parties to it. He did not suppose, and he did not admit, that the Commissioners under the Act had any power to take into consideration how the deed might affect other deeds relating to the same land. He therefore did not go into the case at all on its merits, and the appeal to the Supreme Court was merely against the Commissioner's power under the Act to travel beyond the interests of the immediate parties to the deed. The Judge decided that he had that power, and on that point he (Mr Russell) was going also to ask the decision of the Court of Appeal. Under these circumstances, and seeing that the case was sub judice, he must ask them to do him the justice of suspending' their judgments in the matter until the whole case was before them, and until it had been full decided. He believed that when he was in a position to lay before them all the facts and circumstances of the case he would be able completely to remove from their minds any unfavorable impression which might have been created as to his conduct in the affair. He concluded by saying that personal gain or advantage in any shape had not influenced him in the matter. The motion was then put and carried. ALLEGED NATIVE EXCITEMENT AT HAWKE'S BAY. The Hon Mr RUSSELL moved—That any papers or correspondence by telegram or otherwise between the local or General Government in Hawke's Bay, or any other persons and the late Government, relative to thealleged excited and dangerous state of the native population in that province, on the subject of their lands, during the last six months, be laid on the table. He said his object in moving for these papers was with the view of putting the Council in possession of information on the subject of the alleged dangerous excitement in the minds of the natives of Hawke's Bay about their lands, to enable members to judge whether there was sufficient grounds for such statements, and for the serious charges which had been brought against himself in connection therewith. He would not detain the Council with any remarks beyond stating in the most emphatic manner that the object of the movement, was perfectly peaceful, legal, and legitimate, and that in not a single instance had the native; attempted to commit any breach of the law, or so fur as had come to his knowledge, over threatened to interfere with parties whom they thought to be unfairly in possession of their lands. They were perfectly willing to have their grievances inquired into by a Commission, and try the issue in the Supreme Court. by whose decision they would abide. He would state further, that the number of Europeans who would be affected by such questions as had been raised, was very small indeed. There had been no thought of endeavoring to upset titles to lands which had been fairly acquired, but it was notorious, as might be gathered from reports and other document? already in possession of the Council, that there were alleged cases of great wrong and hardship which, at all events, required' to be investigated. A petition had been presented to the other House by Karaitiana, the native member for the East Coast, signed by a very large number of Hawke's Bay natives, praying for a Commission to investigate their complaints. He was happy to learn that a promise had been made on the part of the Government to appoint an independent Commission, which would make searching inquiry into their .alleged grievances. The motion was put aud carried.

LEAVE OP ABSENCE, &C. The Hon Mr WATERHOUSE moved (1) that the name of the Hon Mr Holmes be discharged from the Waste Lands Committee, and the name of the Hon Dr Buchanan substituted in lieu thereof; and (2) that leave of absence for the remainder of the session be granted to Mr Holmes on urgent private business. Both motions were granted. PUBLIC DOMAIN, CANTEBBUBY. The Hon Mr HALL moved for leave to introduce a bill to regulate public domains in the province of Canturbuvy. He explained that certain lands in that province had been set apart for recreation purposes without a provision having been made for their management, or sufficient legislative authority being provided for their maintenance. The Public Domains Act, he found, did not meet the exigencies of the ease, and the Provincial Council of the Province had no power to deal effectively with the matter. One object of the bill was to provide the necessary regulations, so as to enable the Superintendent and Executive Council to make further and necessary provisions to prevent offences causing wilful damage to the grounds. The Hon Mr MANTELL thought it was a pity that the bill in its operations had been restricted to Canterbury. The defect alluded to in the Public Domains Act showed that it was equally necessary for other provinces. The Hon Mr HALL replied that the view of the case just now stated had not escaped him. On thinking over the matter, he felt that at this period of the session it would be hopeless to get the Government to bi'ing forward such a measure, and they would all fee) that a measure of such general importance ought to emanate from the Government. The matter was one of great urgency to Canterbury ; and after finding out how it wrought there, the colony would be better able to form an opinion as to its wants in the matter. Leave was granted, and the bill was read a first time. PETTY SESSIONS. The Hon Dr MENZIES moved: That there be laid upon the table a return giving a list of the Petty Session districts in the colony, showing the number of Justices.of the Peace in each district, their attendance at the Petty Session Courts, and the number of cases disposed of at each Court respectively in the three years preceding April 1872. He said that these courts had been in operation for a number of years, and nobody knew what had been done. It was very desirable that something should be known about the manner in which their functions were being performed. With regard to the first part of the return asked for, although not mentioned, he hoped the Colonial Secretary would see his way to lay upon the table a map shewing the distribution of the various courts throughout the colony. Such a map would greatly facilitate the object in view and render the return very valuable. Another important point referred to in the motion was the attendace of the various Justices of the Peace. Hon members would no doubt recollect that the Petty Sessions Act provided that if Justices residing within twenty-five miles of the place where the Court was held failed to attend at two successive days they were liable to have their names struck off the Commission of the Peace. They would know, that in the matter of attendance, this provision was very often infringed. Indeed, it was just in this case as in many others, the willing horse got more work than he ought to be asked to do. From doing a fair share of the work, it not unfrequently happened th<*t he got the whole to do, while some few idlers escaped the punishment, or rather the penalty of their neglect. He thought the willing Justices had a right to expect that they would be supported by the Government, so far at least as the carrying out of the provisions of the Petty Sessions Act were concerned. The publication of these returns would no doubt induce the Governto act up to the letter of the Act, in which case those Justices who took no trouble to attend to their duties, would be dealt with. The next portion of the motion referred to the amount of business done in these Courts. It was very necessary that the public should have some information on this point. There was one other mattertowhich he would allude. While he asked the Government to support those Justices who had done their duty, and deal rigidly with those who had failed, he hoped more heed would be paid by the Government with regard to the appointment of fit persons —persons of character and social position. (Hear, hear.) In the district in which he (Dr Menzies) resided the absence of proper supervision in this respect had been a source of serious complaint, and he had no doubt but th'it the same complaint applied to many other districts.

The Hon Colonel WHITMORE agreed with the remarks that had been made in reference to the appointment of Justices of the Peace. He thought that the Bench of Magistrates should have a discretionary power to recommend certain persons to hold commissions of the peace. By that means persons who proved to be unfit for the duty or scandalously bad in their character would either be rejected altogether, or else their names would be omitted at the publication of the next roll. It was, he continued to say, not long ago that a Minister of the Crown had appointed his own shepherd to a commission of the peace. (Laughter.) Such an appointment was both an injustice to the public, and an injustice to those with whom he was called upon to associate. He (the speaker) in common with many others had been the victim of such men being allowed to preside on the bench, and the only reason he could get v as a sort of apology that such men as those ought never to have had a seat on the bench. It was easy to say, that when the attention of the Government was called to incapacity of this kind, the names of such parties were omitted out of the nest year's roll, but the

fact was parties did not like placing themselves in the position of taking steps to direct the attention of the Government to such matters.

The Hon Mr SEW ELL said he was afraid he could not give a guarantee" that the whole of the information sought for by the return would be given. To prepare such a return with any degree of accuracy required much 'onger time than the Council would have at its disposal. The matter, however, would have the immediate attention of the Government with the view of supplying as much information on the subject of could be done within the time. The entire return, which would prove to be a useful one, would be looked after, and no doubt it would be serviceable for the next session. With regard to the general bearing of the question, the opinion he now expressed was the opinion he had all along expressed, viz, that Courts of Petty Session were of great value as public institutions. He regarded them not only as institutions of great advantage to the public, but likewise as institutiona of great political importance. They gave a certain amount of insight into the laws of the colony that would not otherwise be got. They familiarised the Justices who administered the functions of these Courts with the laws of the colony, and for that reason alone he desired to see them as effective as possible. In the matter of public economy they were also well worthy of consideration. To a very great extent they were the means of abridging the expenditure of the country. He believed that in the hands of competent persons the Petty Sessions would be enabled to discharge the bulk of the judicial functions. Looked at from both points of view, both political and economical, he desired to see them made as effective as possible. After briefly alluding to the alleged defect in the selection of J.P.'s, the speaker concluded by showing that it would in many instances be impossible to consult those gentlemen with whom they were to associate as to the appointment of new Justices.

The Hon Mr MANTELL suggested that it should be a condition of appointment that each appointee procured and studied Judge Johnston's work on the law of Magistrates. The Hon Colonel BRETT thought that the thanks of the House were due to the mover for having directed attention to this subject. In his opinion the matter was one requiring anxious consideration. The recent selection of J.P.s was to his mind most objectionable. Besides, he was of opinion that many of the olderselections had become disqualified,having taken the benefit of the Act. He thought that fie motion didnotgofar enough. It should also be made to embrace districts requiring the appointment of J.Ps. In his own district there was no Petty Sessions Court held, and it was felt to be a very great in convenience to the district. Also, the district from Christchurch to Hokitika, a distance of 180 miles, there was no resident J.P. This state of things necessitated the inhabitants going a distance of 50 or 60 miles for every trifling bit of legal business they had to transact. That journey entailed an expense of from £3 to £4i. He hoped steps would be taken to have this state of matters rectified. The Hon Dr MENZIES replied. He thought that the want referred to by the previous speaker would be better dealt with in a separate motion. The motion as put was then carried. LAW PEACTITIONEBS ACT. On the motion of the Hon Mr MANTELL, the second reading of the Law Practitioners Act Amendment Act, 1872, was made an order of the day for Wednesday. GOLDPIELDS COMMITTEE. On the motion of the Hon Mr Millar the name of the Hon Mr Farmer was discharged from this committee. MINING COMPANIES BILL. On the mot-ion of the Hon Mr Sewell this bill was ordered to be read a second time at the next sitting day. CONSTITUTION OP COUNCIL. The Hon Mr WATERHOUSE said, that after consulting with his friends he had resolved upon withdrawing the resolutions standing in his name in, reference to this subject. Considering the feverish state of members' minds, arising from one cause and another, he thought that it would be quite impossible to get them to consider a matter of 80 much importance, at least, with that calmness and deliberation which the subject somuch demanded. Although he did not intend to bring on the resolution this session, he would, if spared, bring it forward for consideration at an early period of the next session. The mere tabling of the motion would not be labor altogether thrown away. It would be the means of directing attention to the subject, and to that extent its despatch would be facilitated next session. In committee the " Interpretation Act Amendment Bill and the Public Healths Bill were considered. At 10 p.m. progress was reported, and the further consideration of the last named bill adjourned. The Council then adjourned. HOUSE OF KEPKESENTATTYES. Tuesday, September 17. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented by Mr Sheehan, Wi Parata, Mr O'Neill, Major Jackson, Mr M'Lean, Mr Shephard, and Mr Carrington. Mr Fox presented a pstition from 641 inhabitants of Westport and the surrounding districts praying for an amendment of the system of administration in force in those districts. Mr Brandon presented a petition from Mr David Lewis, praying the House to consider his case upon certain grounds set forth in his petition. Mr WHITE drew the attention of the House to the fact that a petition forwarded to

him by some of his "constituent? praying for the unification of the "West Coast goldfields, had in some way miscarried as it had not yet reached him, though forwarded through the post office some three weeks ago. N CROWN LANDS DEPABTHENT. Mr BEYNOLDS asked the Premier ■whether the Government would introduce or support a clause promised by the late Government, by which expenditure under the Waste Lands Act, 1858, without appropriation, will for the future be prevented 5 aud further, if the Government mean to renew the appointment held by Mr Domett; and, if so, whether they intend that the salary shall be voted by the House, or be paid under the Permanent Appropriation Powers of the Waste Lands Act, 1858. Mr STAFFORD, in reply to the first part of the question, said it was the intention of the Government to have the salaries of the officers to which the question related voted by the House. The second part of the questions showed the honmembertobe laboring underan error, because the appointment alluded to by him had never lapsed, it was held by Mr Moorhouse in addition to the other ©fhVes held by him. He might state that the Government hoped that the office of RegistrarGeneral would be accepted by Mr J. S. Williams. The office of Secretary of Crown Lands was intended to be placed in its original position of being a Ministerial office, held by Mr Fitzherbert, for which no additional salary would be required. NATIVE LANDS. Mr REYNOLDS asked the Government if it was their intention to repeal the clause in the Immigration and Public Works Act, 1871, which enables the Government when negociating for the purchase of native lands to prevent other perspns from competing for a limited period ? Mr STAFFORD said it was not the intention of the Government to exercise that power. The question of a repeal of the law was one which would involve very considerable delay, and the Government did not think it at ail necessary to repeal the clause, because they could assure the House that they had no intention of exercising the power. Mr FOX would call the attention of the hon member at the head of the Government to the fact that the power had been already exercised. Did the Government intend to repeal the proclamations in those cases. Mr STAFFORD said the Government had not had time to ascertain in how many cases the power had been exercised, but if they found it had been exercised in an injudicious manner, they would most certainly withdraw it. THE AGENT-GENERAL. Mr REYNOLDS asked the Government whether they intended to supersede the AgentGeneral, or to appoint any one to act with him ? Mr STAFFORD said the Government did not intend to propose that any other person should be placed in the same position as the Agent-General. There were of course a number of persons appointed to act as agents in the old country, as the hon member was aware, but there was no intention to supersede the Agent-General. LTTTELTON TELEGRAPH OFFICE. Mr CURTIS in answer to a question by Mr Peacock —whether the Government had taken into consideration the urgent necessity which exists for a new building at Lyttelton for the purposes of Post Office, Custom House, and Telegraph Office—said he could not agree with the hon member as to the urgency for the erection of the new offices of which he had spoken The buildings at present in use in Lyttelton were found to answer their purposes tolerably well. No complaints had been received either from the public or from the officers of the departments. At the same time the Government did recognise that it would afford greater convenience if the three buildings weie all under one roof, and they would be prepared to inquire into the question during the recess with a view to gee whether in the course of the year it would not be advisable to erect a new building for the three departments, but the Government had not at present such information as would enable them to place a sum on the estimates this year for the purpose. SEPARATION 0F THE COLONY. Mr MACANDREW intimated his intention to withdraw the resolution proposed by him for the separation of New Zealand into two colonies. PRIVILEGE. Mr John Martin appeared at the bar of the House, and having stated that he had withdrawn his application for the land on Mr Andrew's run, he was discharged. ANOTHER PRIVILEGE CASE. Mr J. C. BROWN drew the attention of the Speaker to the circumstance that he had within five minutes of the meeting of the House received a communication informing him that a case in which he was concerned, involving an amount of £2OOO, had been decided to be brought on for trial at an early date, and he had been informed that unless he left the House instantly and made his appearance in the Supreme Court at Canterbury he would be mulcted in very heavy expenses. He desired to know whether he could be compelled to leave the House and neglect the important duties in his charge to attend a summons to appear in the Supreme Court. Thft SPEAKER, in reply to the hon member, stated that so far as he understood his question, there was no doubt if his personal attendance were required he could claim exemption, bat if the trial was one in which the hon member's personal attendance was not necessary he was not prepared to say whether the House had the power to Btop the proceedings. He would consult the Attorney-General on the matter, and inform the hon member what would be the proper couree forlrim to pursue.

TELEGRAPH NOTICES BILL. This bill passed through committee without amendment. STAMP DITTIES BILL. This bill was committed. Mr Curtis proposed that the bill should come into operation on the Ist January, 1873. Mr Vogel thought the benefits intended to be conferred by the passing of the bill should be passed into lawas quicklyas possible,and with that view he would move that the blank be filled up with the words " first of November." Mr Curtis, in reply to the suggestion, mentioned that he had consulted the officers of the department, who were of opinion that the earliest date at which the bill could be brought into operation would be that already mentioned by him. He was quite willing to defer consideration of the matter for the purpose of making farther inquiry, and with this understanding the clause was postponed. The next point of importance in the discussion was the reduction of the duty on cheques to one penny, proposed by Mr Curtis. Mr Vogel opposed the reduction. He was aware that an organised opposition to the payment of the twopenny duty on cheques had been got up by a few firms in different parts of the country, but he thought even that opposition had faded away, and if the duty were continued no further complaint would be heard of. He would much rather see the whole of the duty on receipts done away with than consent to a reduction of the duty on cheques, which was only a small amount of direct taxation on the wealthier classes, who could well afford to pay it. Mr Speaker, Mr J. Kelly, and Mr Pearce supported Mr Vogel : s view of the matter, and Mr Hallenstein, Mr Swanson, Sir J. C. Wilson, Mr Sheehan, Mr Fitzherbert, and Mr Webster opposed it. On the question being put, the reduction to one penny was agreed to. When the clauses for exempting friendly socities were reached, MiWhite proposed that receipts given by the treasurers of Masonic bodies be exempted from duty. Mr Curtis opposed the amendment. Mr O'Conor considered that the stamps on cheques having been reduced to one penny the clause granting exemption to friendly societies should be struck out. Mr Swanson agreed with this view. Mr Luckie also objected to these exemptions, because it would be impossible to draw a line at. which the remissions should cease. Thore was one class of exemption which he could not agree with, and he could not understand upon what principle the exemption had been made ; he alluded to the remission of duty on General and Provincial Government cheques. He must propose the striking out of the clause. Mr Bathgate, to make the clause clear, proposed the insertion of words for the exemption of any friendly society of Odd Fellows or Foresters established under any Imperial Act. The amendment was negatived, so that the exemption from du.y applies only to those societies registered under the provisions of the Friendly Societies Act, 1867. Mr Steward proposed that cheques drawn by clerks of any municipal corporation, road board, or county board be exempt from duty. The amendment was negatived. On the question that the clause stand part of the bill, a division was called for, which resulted as follows : —Ayes, 20 j noes, 20. The Chairman gave his casting vote with the noes. The clause was therefore struck out. Mr Steward moved the amendment of clause 21 by the insertion of the words " No receipt for rates or rents accruing to any municipal corporation, road board, or county board shall be liable to stamp duty." A division was called for, and the amendment rejected by 28 to 12. The whole of the clause which related to remissions on receipts given by friendly societies, was then struck out, Mr Gillies pointing out that it was unnecessary to encumber the bill with clauses of this nature to secure an object for which the necessary provision was made in the Friendly Societies Act. The bill was then reported. NEW ZEALAND POST OFFICE BILL.

The object of the bill is to reduce the rate of postage on newspapers posted for delivery within the colony to one half penny. Mr Murray proposed that the reduction should be confined to newspapers printed within the colony. The amendment was objected to by many hon members, amongst whom was Mr Shepherd, who pointed out that it would be injudicious to exclude English newspapers such as the Times from the operations of the reduction. If the mover of the amendment would propose to exclude from the benefits of the Act some colonial newspapers which were not worthy the name of newspapers, one of the local papers in Wellington for instance, which devoted itself to scurrility and the dissemination of scandal and lies, he would support him. The Chairman pointed out that the language used by the hon member was hardly Parliamentary. Mr Shepherd could easily remedy his error, if he had committed any error at all, by substituting the words " wilful falsehood." The bill was reported. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. The object of this bill is to secure the better regulation of the public accounts by creating the Controller and Auditor-General Commissioners of Audit; the abolition of the Paymaster-General's Account and the making of provision that all moneys payable on account of the public service shall be made in pursuance only of the order of the Audit Commissioners. There are other provisions for securing prompt rendering of accounts by all officers of the Government. The clauses of the bill gave rise to considerable discussion. In answer to a question, Mr Gillies said he thought the law at present was that the Agent-General could not withdraw money without the Controller's order sent from the colony. Mr Vogel said the Crown Agents in England could make advances to the Agent-General by way of imprest, and

he accounts for the expenditure of the money by sending his accounts to the colony, but the great bulk of the payments made at home are made by the direction of the Government. Mr Gillies proposed a new clause which he said had become necessary to meet a class of difficulties which frequently arose on account of variance of opinion between the Auditor-General and the Controller as to what vote certain expenditure should be charged against. It often happened that the Controller was of opinion that accounts should be charged against perhaps the native vote, while the Auditor-General was of opinion it should be charged to public works, and the result was that payment was often hung up, and considerable delay and inconvenience experienced. The clause is as follows: —"ln case a difference of opinion shall arise between the Commissioners and the Treasury as to the vote or other authority to which any expenditure oughtto be charged, the question shall be determined by the Colonial Treasurer, but the objection made by the Commissioner shall be laid before Parliament within ten days thereafter, if Parliament be in session, and if not in session then within ten days after the next meeting of Parliament." Mr Vogel altogether objected to the introduction of such a clause. It seemed to him that the Colonial Treasurer had placed himself almost entirely in the hands of one officer of the Treasury, to whose ideas he was giving expression in the House. Already the hon member, taking advantage of a thin house immediately after dinner, had made a most, important alteration in the seventh clause. The principle of that clause was that the requisition for an imprest should state the vote on account of which the money was required, and that the vote against which the imprest should be charged should only be changed by consent of the Comissioners of Audit. The hon member had completely overthrown that clause by carrying an amendment by which the changing of the vote against which the imprest should be charged should be under the direction of the Colonial Treasurer. That was so important an innovation and so entirely subversive of the system of finance of the late Government that he should object to the introduction of the clause until the bill had been before the Public Accounts Committee. He would now propose that the Chairman report progress. Mr Gillies had no objection to send the bill before the Public Accounts Committee. The simple object of the clause was this : It often so happened that there had been certain expenditure incurred in entire accordance with the strictest interpretation of the law, but there were three persons each holding different opinions as to what vote the expenditure should be charged to. The Controller thought it should be charged to one vote ; the Auditor-General thought it should be charged to another; and the Colonial Treasurer held an opinion differing with both these gentlemen. He thought, therefore, that in such a case as this the Minister who was responsible to Parliament should be empowered to decide ; and that was the whole power the clause proposed to place in the hands of the Treasurer. Mr Vogel withdrew his motion that the Chairman report progress, and the clause was read a second time and added to the bill. The bill was then reported with amendmants. GOLD DUTIES BILL. Mr O'Conor, in Committee on this bill, proposed that the bill should take effect immediately after its passing instead of on the first of January next, as proposed in the'(bill. Mr Gillies said the reason for fixing the Ist of January was that the gold duties for the year 1872 had been estimated and appropriated up to the 30th of December, and the provincial authorities desired that the commencement of the reduction should be in unison with the commencement of their financial year. THIRD READINGS. The Telegraph Notices Bill, the Gold Duties Bill, and the Post Office Bill were read a third time and passed. PUBLIC RESERVES BILL. This bill was referred to the Public Accounts Committee. PROTECTION OF ANIMALS BILL. A bill to secure English and native game birds against wholesale destruction, and to aid the efforts of Acclimatisation Societies. Mr Rolleston considered it a public scandal to see quantities of tuis strung up in Bhops for sale, and he was glad to hear that the bill would have the effect of preventing such proceedings. The bill was read a second. THE WELLINGTON DEBTS AMENDMENT BILL. A bill making amendments in the method of securing the payments due to the colony was read a second time. THE WESTLAND BILL. Mr STAFFORD moved the postponement of the consideration of this bill till Friday. Mr VOGEL hoped the Government would take some speedy measures to remedy the discontented state of affairs on the West Coast. The Government could not seriously urge that they had not sufficient information on which to proceed. The Premier had travelled to every village in the colony, and knew, or should know, as much as he ever would about that portion of the colony to which the bill related. The hon member, Mr Curtis, should also know something of the district, coming as he did from a portion of the colony where the affairs of the West Coast were discussed for sixteen hours out of the twenty-four, so that the excuse of want of information would hardly be acceptable to the House. Mr WHITE was as anxious as any hon member could be to see the bill pass, but he could not help observing that a great deal of capital was being made of the subject. He wondered how it was if the late Government were so anxious in the matter that they had not circulated the bill. It was only the day before that he had obtained a copy as a favor. He could not give the late Government mueh credit for a real desire to forward the interests

of his constituents, but he should be glad to have an opportunity of supporting the bill if it should come before the House. Mr FOX could not help making a few obsei*'vations after the ungrateful remarks which had been made by the member for Hokitika, particularly as the endeavors made by the late Government in the direction of administering the affairs of the West Coast had been appreciated and acknowledged throughout the entire West Coast districts. The "-eason why the bill had not been circulated was easy of explanation. The last proofs came down to him for correction on the day when the late Government went out of office, and since that time there had been no power to order the distribution of the bilk, as the incoming Government had not stated that they would make it a Government bill. He considered the member for Hokitika had acted in an exceedingly ungenerous manner in making the statements he had made. Mr WHITTC disclaimed any desire to impute a want of earnestness in bringing in thebill; what he did nsean and what he would prove was that during the late debate on the want of confidence motion the Westland Bill had been made a handle of. Mr STAFFORD said he could not say that the Government would go on with the bill or not, but '.if they did not go on with it themselves they would aid any hon member who might bring in a bill to meet the wishes of the people of the West Coast. He had been informed that the bill did not meet with the approval of all the members from the West Coast. It was a bill that would not be acceptable to the Nelson South West goldfields because the formation of a province would mean the saddling of the debts of the county upon a population who were at present singularly free from debt. He thought it probable that a more simple form of administration might be devised which would meet all the wishes of the whole of the West Coast. He did not wish it to be understood that the Government in any way ignored the wishes of the members for the West Coast. If they were not themselves in a position to go on with a measure, they would throw no impediments in the way of any hon member who desired to introduce a bill with the object desired. Mr O'CONOR entered upon an irregular discussion of the provisions of the bill, which he considered a mere sham, and promised that if no other member brought in a bill to meet the requirements of the South West goldfields he would be prepared to do so. Mr SHEPHERD promised that the Nelson authorities would bring in a bill to meet the complaints of the Nelson South West Goldfields as soon as time would permit. The order for the second reading of the bill was postponed till Friday, and the House adjourned.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, September 18. The Council resumed to-day at 2 p.m. CASE OE C. 0. SOHAW. On the motion of the Hon Mr MANTBLL it was agreed that the evidence taken before the Public Petitions Committee on the petition of the above, together with the petition and correspondence be printed. LEAVE OP ABSENCE The Hon Dr BUCHANAN moved—" That leave of absence be granted to the Hon Mr Campbell for four days from last Tuesday." In support of the application he read a telegram from Oamaru, in which Mr Campbell stated that he had been disappointed in getting back to Wellington as early as he had originally intended. The Hon Captain FRASER opposed the application on the ground that urgent circumstances had not been shown, and without such showing he contended that the Council was not justified in granting the request. The Hon Mr MANTELL hoped the Council would bear in mind that hitherto these applications had been granted without strict regard to the nature of the cause upon which they proceeded. He intended during the session to bring down a motion on this subject, when an opportunity would be afforded for discussing the whole question of leave of absence. The Hon Captain BAILLIE reminded the Council that this was not the first time the Hon Mr Campbell had absented himself without leave of absence having been first obtained. Last session he was censured for that very act, and he found no record of any apology having been made for this want of courtesy to the Council. On the question being put the motion was refused; thirteen votes being recorded for, and fifteen against. The Hon the SPEAKER read rule 95 of the standing orders which empowered the Council to impose a fine of £SO, or in default 14 days' imprisonment, upon members absenting themselves without leave during the session. The Hon Colonel WHITMORE said he had no hesitation in stating an adverse opinion on the subject. Last year he found himself called upon to direct the attention of the House to circumstances of a similar kind, the offender being the same hon gentleman. Having drawing the attention of the Council to the subject in an official form, he thought that further action in the matter might be left over pending the hon member's return. When he did raturn he (the speaker) would be prepared to draw further attention to the fact so as to hear what explanation the hon gentleman had to make for himself. He was far from being satisfied with the conduct of the hon gentleman, and in voting against the motion he felt that had he done otherwise he would have been condoning an offence. The matter then dropped. HANGITATA BRIDGE. The Hon Mr ACLAND moved that the following reports be laid on the table: —(1) So much of the report upon the Canterbury rivers by Dr Doyne as relates to the river

Rangitata. (2) Report by Mr Paterson on the proposed site for the bridge. (3) Report by Messrs Bell and Tanored, together with the calculations appended thereto, and (4) report by Mr Bell, dated 4th September, 1872, commenting upon the report of Messrs Bell and Tancred. The motion was carried without comment. WELLINGTON CITY RESERVES BILL. This bill was considered in committee and passsed as amended. TARANAKI EDUCATION RESERVES ACT. This bill was also considered in committee, and its further consideration adjourned. PROVINCIAL RATES REVENUE ACT. The Hon Mr HALL moved the second reading of this bill. Its object he said was to provide additional means of revising the Road Board rates to that provided by the Highway Boards Empowering Act passed last session: It would be remembered that that act was passed in consequence of doubts as to the validity of various provincial ordinances, and it providp«l a particular mode of revising the rates, which was to this effect : that no steps should be taken until a rate had actually been struck and fixed, which was done once or twice a year. When the rate was struck any person might appeal against it, and such appeal was made to the Resident Magistrate's Court or Court of Petty Sessions —such court being the one nearest to the rateable property. In the province to which he belonged that had been found inconvenient, and it imposed hardships which the Legislature had never contemplated. The system in operation many years prior to the passing of the Highways Act was that at the commencement of each year the Road Boards made a roll of the ratepayers of each district and their properties were assessed at a certain value. When that was done, a commissioner was appointed by the Superintendent to "go round every road district in the province. Notice was given of the day on which he would sit, and persons who had any objections to make gave notice to the Road Boards, and the objections were afterwards gone into before the commissioner. That was a proceeding which accomplished the service of the rate roll with the least possible expenditure of time and money. Instead of that plan the system which had now, he might say, been thrust upon them was this: the rate roll was of course made, but no objections to it could be heard until the roll was actually struck, and when that, was done, and afterwards from time to time, persons might object. They were not required to do so at a given time ; one person might appear one month, another person another month, and appeals lay to the nearest Resident Magistrate's Court, wherever that might be. In the case of districts at a distance from centres of population, and from places where Resident Magistrates' Courts and Courts of Petty Sessions were held, that plan involved great inconvenience and hardship. In his own district the people had to travel a distance of forty miles for the purpose of getting their renfail reduced from say, perhaps, £SO to £4O. Then there was this further aosurdity. Rateable property in one part of the district was nearest one Resident Magistrate's Court, and in another part of the district to quite a different Court, so that, one person might actually have to attend diffeient Courts, fixing tne value of property in a particular district upon two different standards. There was no provision for uniformity of practice in the assessment of property, either in the different districts, or even in the one district.

The Hon Mr WATERBOCTBE said that he had entertained doubts as to the propriety of adopting this Act, and he had given the remarks of the previous speaker very careful consideration. The objections he previously entertained tothebillhad still beenleftupon his mind, despite the arguments made use of by the previous speaker. It would be in the remembrance of the Council that the Act of last session left it optional to adopt its provisions or not, and where these provisions had been adopted they were so adopted upon the application of the Superintendents and Provincial Councils. Under the existing bill parlies who felt themselves aggrieved might appeal to the Resident Magistrate or Petty Sessions, and from there, if they thought fit, it was competent to them to carry the matter to the Supreme Court, of the colony. The Magistrates and Supreme Court Judges are so constituted that thev stand aloof from party strife, and, further, these courts or appeal are found to a very great extent to be a convenience to the public. Now, instead of this Court of Appeal, what is •it that this bill proposes to do ? It proposes that the Provincial Government should nominate an individual with power to hear and decide all appeals. In one or perhaps two cases such an arrangement might be found to work well, but its general effect would be to work badly. Its effect would be to place not only the. power of appointing the assessor in the hands of the Government, but also the p >wer of appointing persons to whom appeals against, these assessments should be made. If it was inconvenient for persons desirous of appealing against these assessments to go to the Resident Magistrates' Courts in consequence of these Courts being remotely situated from a given centre, he (the speaker) thought that the difficulty might be very readily overcome. by arranging that the Resident Magistrates travel round and visit such districts. He thought it would be better not to proceed further with the matter this session. The Hon Mr SEWELL said that the measure was one .which the Government could not recognise. One and perhaps the only practical objection to the present system had been completely answered by Mr Wateihouse. If the present system was found not to work efficiently that was a very good reason wiry some improvement should be effected. By all means let the Resident Magistrates or other judges hi the matter go round the districts, if

that was all the objection. He doubted if the new bill would remedy this drawback. It was provided by section 6 that the Commissioner shall for the purposes of revision sit in open Court at such places as the Superintendent shall appoiut. Mr HALL: Precisely, sit at such placos as shall be appointed. Mr SEWELL: Even then persons would be compelled to attend at some central place. The bill, however, appears to be objectionable in other ways. The public are very jealous as to how tribunals of this kind are constituted and regulated, and by this bill they were asked to override the present system and delegate its powers to Superintendents and Provincial Councils. They were asked to place the whole property in the country under the control of officers responsible to the Provincial G-overnment—officers appointed by and removable by Superintendents. He stated as a further objection to the bill that it did not appear to have been properly matured. It would in his opinion launch all parties concerned into litigation and ho hoped the Council would not consent to its passing. The Hon Colonel WHITMORE said that he had always understood that the Hon Mr Hall was desirous of controlling the actions of Provincial Governments within reasonable and necessary limits, but he (Mr Hall) seemed now inclined to follow an opposite direction. If passed it would have the effect of vesting in them the absolute control of property, and would enable them at any moment to enact laws to destroy the value of such property. These rating powers were means by which real property in this country could be rendered worth nothing whatever. So far as he could see the whole object of the bill was to save parties appealing from having to travel a considerable distance to the Appeal Court. If instead of vesting the control of the Act in Superintendents and their Provincial Councils it was proposed to vest it in the Governor in Council then he could have no great objection to it. Mr HALL : I have no objection that it should be ve ted in the Governor in Council rather than the Superintendent and his Council.

Colonel WHITMORE went on to say that if that suggestion be agreed to it was not worth while passing another bill this year. The objection was so very small that it was scarcely worth while going to that trouble. The Hon Mr MILLAR said that he had long wis bed for the introduction of some mode for enabling them to have their rates revised, and he looked upon this bill as a step in that direction. He looked upon it as a precursory bill which would yet bring about measures which would be of very great benefit to the country. He did not see anything so very dreadful in the proposed delegation. He thought it extremely unadvisable for Resident Magistrates to be mixed up with duties of this nature. They have other duties to discharge and their duties must of necessity be neglected if the magistrates are employed riding about the country hearing appeals. The Hon Captain BA.ILLIE moved as an amendment that the bill be read that day six months. The Hon Mr STOKES said that the lion member (Mr Hall) had described the bill as a measure intended to remove an inconvience which at present existed in taking parties from a distance. He thought the difficulty could easily be obviated, by remodelling the present bill, and providing that Resident. Magistrates should attend and revise their valuations. There could be no great, difficulty involved in Magistrates visiting their districts once a year. The Hon Colonel BRETT described the bill as a very fair one. In the district in which he predded as Chairman of the Road Board great inconvenience was felt from the present mode of appeal. The law as it at present stood was not only expensive, but it was also useless. The form of appeal was such that from £2 to £3 of expenses were incurred in getting a reduction in the amount of asse.-sment of a very few shillings. The Hon Mr TAYLOR would not oppose the bill from the fact, that its provisions were simply permissive, and it might be well suited for Canterbury ; at the same time it might not be quite so suitable to other provinces. Still these other provinces need not adopt it. The Hon Dr BUCfIANAN intimated that he would support, the motion on grounds similar to those stated by Mr Taylor. The Hon Mr ACKLAND spoke in favor of the bill. He could not agree with those speakers who spoke of the bill as one likely to affect the value of real property. It was merely a question of convenience for persons desirous of appealing against excessive rates. The Hon Mr TAYLOR also spoke in favor of the bill. Considering that Canterbury, which was the only province which asked for the bill, was ready to pay for its machinery, he did not see that there was any good reason for refusing it. The Hon Mr WILLIAMSON, in intimating that he would support the bill, expressed his opinion in favor of an addition being made to it, so as to provide for a uniform scale of assessment. He gave a number of instances of the want of uniformity in this respect. The Hon Mr HALL roplied, during which he announced that ho had nonobjection to have the Act placed under the control of the Governor in Council, instead of, as was originally contemplated, the Superintendent and Council. He further stated that he was quite willing that a clause should be inserted confining the bill to Canterbury, or if the Council preferred it he would not object to the clause being so worded that it could not be brought into force in other provinces without the consent of at least two-thirds of the inhabitants. In view of thes6 concessions, the Hon Capt.

Baillie intimated that he would withdraw hi? amendment. The bill was then road a. r-econd'time. OAMARU POCK THUS!' BILL An animated discussion took place on the motion for committal of this bill, which resulted in a motion by the Hon Mr Waterhouse, " That the bill be remitted to a se'eet committee, with instructions to bring up their report not later than the 25th instant. COMMISSIONERS POWERS ACT. The Commissioners Power Act 1867 Amendment Bill was read a second time. LAW PRACTITIONERS ACT. In moving the second reading of this bill, the Hon Mr Mantell explained at some length its objects. It was he said passed for the purpose of relieving Mr H. Smylhies, who had become disqualified from acting as a solicitor and barrister before the Supreme Court of New Zealand. The circumstances of the case he said were well known both to hon members and the public at large. The question of his admission under a previous application had been referred to the Judges. That remit had been hedged in with very stringent conditions, and in view of these conditions the Judges had given an adverse decision. They found that while the original offence of which Smythies had been "convicted had been amply propitiated, he (Smythies) had not within the preceding twelve months been conducting liimself irreproachably. He (Mr Mantell) had, as a member of the Petitions Committee, an opportunity of ascertaining what was meant by the term irreproachable. The lawyer on the other side had acted much more sharply than Smythies had done, and had he been before them instead of Mr Symthies they (the committee) would have felt bound to have dealt much more sharply with him. He (Mr Mantell) held in his hands petitions signed by no fewer than 700 persons praying for the re-ad-mission of Mr Smythies. Of all these names he did not find one representing a person in affluent circumstances. They were all poor people, gstill the prayer of their petition was as much entitled to be considered as if their oicumstances had been otherwise. In seconding the motion the Hon Mr Frazer gave a detailed history of the facts of the case. In the year 1866, a bill similar to the one now before the House was brought, down. The Hon Mr Millar succeedod in getting a very extraordinary amendment parsed by which a clause was inserted under which Mr Smythies was excluded from practice. In the year 1869, he (the speaker) was sitting upon the Magistrate's Bench, Lunedin, when the subject of this bill was brought up and prosecuted under that clause of the Act. At that, time it was seen that the fetters had been forged by a more cunning craftsman than Mr Millar, and the'i found that these fetters fitted only too well, and left no alternative but to record the penalty of £SOO. The Hon Colonel WHITMORE intimated bis intention of opposing the motion. He deeply commisserated the unfortunate position occupied by Mr Smythies, and announced that he would be quite prepared to support a measure passed to compensate Mr Smythies, and compensate him well for the loss he had sustained.

The Hon Messrs Edwards, Johnston, Nurse, Acklamd, and Taylor, followed on the. same side, after which the Hon Mr Millar made a few remarks. He denied that he was actuated by hostile feelings to Mr Smythies, as might be implied from the remarks made by the Hon Captain Eraser. The debate was then adjourned. MINING- COMPANIES BILL. The above bill was read a second time. COMMISSIONERS POWERS ACT. The Commissioners Powers Act, 1867, Amendment Act, 1872, passed through committee as printed. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, September 18. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two. PETITIONS THE CIVID SERVICE COMMISSION. Mr BATHGATE asked the Government, whether or not members of the Legislature were to be placed on the Civil Service Commission ; and, if so, who are the members the Government intend to propose ? His reason for asking the question was based upon a statement of the Premier made to the House recently, which was to this effect:—" We therefore propose to appoint a Parliamentary Commission to inquire into all the depart ments of the Civil Service, and if necessary to carry out the required reform." Ifc was quite true that the Premier did not specify, when he made the statement, whether it was the intention that, members of the House or of the other branch of the Legislature should be included in that Commission, but the inference left on the minds of many members of the House was that the silence of the Government in that respect showed that it. was their intention that members of the House should be included in the Commission. Last he (Mr Bathgate) was impressed with the strong language of a gentleman at present on the other side of the House, who characterised the proposal to establish a Board of Works as an audacious attempt to purchase the support of members. [Mr Stafford interposed. He thought the hon member was going into debateablo matter.] He would merely observe then, that if the hon member did not intend to adopt the course it was generally supposed he intended to follow he might thank him (Mr Bathgate) for. having given him an opportunity to give the supposition an unqualified contradiction, or possibly he_ might he able to satisfy lhe House that it was quite, fair to appoint members of the House to such a Commissior. [Mr Stafford again requested the Speaker to insist that the hon member shouhl confine

himself to the question.] He would then merely ask if it was the intention of the Go--rnmenr. to appoint members of the House, or of the Legislator', to the Civil Service Commission, because he maintained that they had a right to know their intentions in the matter. Mr STAFFORD said if the hon member had known what was meant by a Parliamentary Commision he would not have thought it necessary to ask the question at all. A Parliamentary Commission was a Commission appointed by Parliament, and according to the usual custom the names of the Commissioners would be stated at the time of appointing the Commission. No Parliamentary Commission could be appointed by the action of the Government alone. All the Government could do would be to propose to Parliament the names of certain persons to form the Commission, and the Parliament would then say whether it would appoint those persons or not. It was in consequence of the.opinions expressed by a number of members of the House who had strongly urged that an examination into the conduct of the departments of the Civil Service was necessary, and it was thought probable that those gentlemen would like to be placed on the Commission, in order that they could have an opportunity of probing into the matters in which they considered reform was necessary. On subsequent consideration the Government had thought it advisable that the members of the Commission should not be members of Parliament, and the names of the gentlemen to be proposed would be submitted to the House. WAITARA-WANG-ANLT RAILWAY. Mr T. KELLY asked the Minister for Public Works, it it was the intention of the Government to construct any portion of the Waitara-Wanganui railway out of the money already raised by loan for carrying out the Public Works and Immigration policy, and if so, when, and to what extent tenders will be asked for constructing such work? He asked the question in consequence of a statement made by the Premier a few days ago which lefr, on his mind an impression that the Government did not intend to carry out any other works than those aii-eady contracted for. He understood that, a portion of the line had been surveyed, working plans prepared, and that the work was ready for tender if the Government considered it advisable to proceed with the work. He desired to know whether the portion of the line whieh had been surveyed or any other portion would be proceeded with during the year. He thought it must be 'admitted that if there was any rail-

way work which should be carried out it was that to which his question related. Mr REID, in reply said, he thought the hon member labored under a wrung impressions if he gathered that it was not the intention of the Government to proceed with any other works than those contracted for. The hon member had inquired whether this particular work was to be carried on out of the moneys rah-ed by loan. He might state that the Government were not in a position to say whether the railway would be constructed out of the moneys already raised. They were at that, moment having an inquiry instituted for the purpose of ascertaining how much of the money remained, and when the inquiry was concluded the Government would bring down to the House a statement of the balance available for the construction of railways. He had in his possession a report of the Engineer-in-Ohief which did not bear out the opinion that tliis line was one that would yield a profit on its working expenses, which were estimated to reach £3600, while the reproductive works would not yield half that amount. In view of this fact it was possible the Government might determine that there were other lines which should be constructed before the Wanganui-Waitara line. In answer to the latter part of the question —to what extent tenders will be asked for constructing such work—he would state that it wis the intention of the Government to submit a tender to Messrs Brogden, but it would rest with the Government to determine whether it was one of the lines the construction of which phould be proceeded with. He would lay the engineer's return upon the table. THE G-OVRRNOR'S RESIDENCE. Mr PEARCE asked the Colonial Treasurer whether the Government intended to place on the estimates the sum of £1454 12s 2d, to be applied to the payment of certain creditors of the contractor for the building of Government House, in accordance with the suggestion of the Commissioner appointed to investigate the claim of Mr John Martin. In explanation of the question he would remind the House that during last session a petition was presented by Mr Martin in relation to a claim made upon the Government in connection with the building of 'Government House. That petition was referred to the Public Petitions Committee who reported upon the matter in a way that was not considered satisfactory, and it was afterwards referred to a select committee who reported in a different direction. The House then resolved that a commissioner should be appointed to investigate the claim. The commissioners report was now printed, and while unfavorable to Mr Martin a clause of the report stated that the claims of certain creditors who had supplied materials to the contractor had not been satisfied—materials of which the country had obtained the benefit. Ho would now put the question standing in his name. Mr GILLIES said he was not in a position to give any very definite answer to the hon member. The recommendation, or rather the suggestion, of the commissioner appointed to inquire into Mr Martin's case put til ß * question as one for the consideration of the Government, whether, as a matter of course, and not as a matter of right, this amount ought to be paid to the contractor for th 6 Government House. The first

question to be ascertained was whether they had money beyond what would be necessary forthe carrying on of the ordinary services of the colony, and he was not prepared to say that they had. If there was any surplus revenue that could be applied m this way the Government would consider whether they should make a grant to the creditors. At present he was not satisfied that after meeting the liabilities for the services of the current year there would be any surplus; in fact, he feared that he would have considerable difficultv in making both ends meet. Mr T. KELLY assumed that if the Government did decide upon making a payment of ; the money the matter would be brought before the House. Mr GILLIES replied that of course it would be brought down in the estimates. WATER SUPPLY ON GOLDFIELDS. Mr MACATCDEEW moved, " That in the opinion of this House, it is expedient that out of that portion of the Immigration and Public Works Loan applicable for water supply on goldfielda, a sum not exceeding £IOO,OOO be he placed at the disposal of the Provincial Legislature of Otago, to be by it applied exclusively towards the development of mining industry in that province; such sum to be charged against the revenue of said province. The hon member pointed out that it was now about two years since the Legislature determined to take action in this matter, but up to the present the action of the Legislature had remained a dead letter, and be felt sure it would remain a dead letter unless some such Ptep as was indicated in his motion was taken. The district of Cromwell was rich in quartz reefs and alluvial land which would afford employment to thousands of people if water could be obtained. The expense of obtammg a supply would not cost more than from £lO 000' to -£15,000. There were other districts such as Blacks and the Mount Ida goldfields which must absolutely collapse a supply of water was not obtained. There were goldfields in the province which had not yet to be discovered, their existence had been ascertained as matter of fact, and if the power to construct these water works were placed in the hands of the Provincial authorities, a very great benefit would be thereby conferred upon the province especially and the colony generally. He would propose that the Council should be called together at once -to deal with the matter. He would make no further remark than to say that if the goldfields of Otago were properly developed she would in a few years yield a revenue which would be sufficient in itself to pay off the whole of the debt of New Zealand both colonial and provincial. Mr STAFFORD said the motion was clearly one for the appropriation of money—in fact, it was a little bill to borrow money, and in the face of the formerly expressed opinion of the Legislature against provincial borrowing, the Government coulk not agree with the motion. Further than that, it was in direct opposition to a resolution recently passed bv the House, which stated that the Colonial Government should not divest itself of the control of moneys voted by the Legislature under the Public Works Act. He was not insensible of the importance of the mining industry, and the Government would make every endeavor to further the objects which the mover of the motion had in view. Mr MERVYN hoped the motion would be withdrawn, and he would suggest that the Government should, at their earliest convenience, appoint a member of the Executive to be Minister of Mines, for which office be thought the member for Nelson City, Mr Curtis, well qualified. The discussion then became general, the question being debated by members on all sides of the House. Ultimately. Mr SHEEHAN moved the following amendment:—" That in the opinion of this House it is expedient that the sum providea by loan for water supply on the goldfields excepting the sura of £50.000, which should be held in reserve for distribution among the goldfields, should be allocated among the gold-producing provinces and the County of Westland, to be appropriated on the basis of mining population, and that the sums so allocated should be expended upon waterworks to be approved by the General Government, and upon such conditions as will ensure that the money shall be expended upon reproductive works." The arrival of the dinner hour interrupted the debate.

DRAINAGE BILL. The debate on the second reading of this bill, which has fOr its object the advancement of moneys by the State for the carrying out of drainage works for the improvement of the soil, was resumed. Mr YOGEL said the hon member who introduced the bill seemed to huve a very proper desire to effect an object which would be of considerable advantage to the agricultural communities of the colony, but he certainly seemed not to understand how to go about it. He seemed to have no information on which to proceed. The manner in which the bill was drawn gave it tb« appearance of a telegraphic message. The object which the bill sought to accomplish was a good one, and he would like to see the Government of the country take up such a measure ; indeed it would be a wise step if a Minister of Agriculture were appointed. He observed that the Premier was consulting his colleague the member for Taieri. Perhaps he considered the hon member a tower of strength in such matters and possibly he was correct in thinking that the hon member was better acquainted with farming than other matters. However that might be it. was not out of place to observe that the Bureau of Agriculture in America did a great deal of good in the way of assisting in agricultural operations, and it would a wise step if some such plan were followed in this country. jgMr STAFFORD was not consulting his

colleague on his fitness to occupy the position position of Minister of Agriculture, although he was aware that the hon member's knowledge of practical farming was not second to that of any other member of the House; he was merely observing upon the suggestions which had been made during the day for the creation of new Ministers. One hon member had suggested the appointment of a Minister of Mines, and now the member for City East recommended the appointment of a Minister of Agriculture. He quite admitted that there were special subjects which might be entrusted to a particular Minister' to supervise, and he was happy to observe that the House was beginning to recognise that there were other matters in the country which required attention besides railways—that there were large social and material questions of interest which should not be left out of sight in their endeavors to develop the resources of the country, and he could not help thinking that the thanks of the Legislature were due to the member for Bruce for the efforts made by him during the present and the past session to secure the passing- of the bill. At the same time he thought the bill could not receive the attention this session which so important a subject required, and.he would suggest that the second reading should be allowed to pass, so as to affirm the principle that some action in the direction indicated should be taken, but on the understanding that the bill should not proceed this session. If the hon member would consent to that proposition he would be happy to support fthe second reading. He was personally aware of the beneficial operation of such a measure in a portion of the United Kingdom where he had a small estateIreland—where large drainage works had been carried on during the last twenty years under the authority of the Imperial Parliament. From his own knowledge of what had taken place, he knew the greatest benefits to have arisen under that Act. He remembered that in his younger days, when on snipe-shooting expeditions, it was with great difficulty he could get over the land by jumping from tussock to tussock ; but when he was last at home he saw that the land, under the operation of the Drainage Act, had been transformed into magnificent fields of red turnips and clover, with cattle grazing where hitherto it would be considered dangerous to walk in winter ; and in other portions of the country land which used with difficulty to be let at 2s 6d an acre was now let for £2 an acre. In this country there was a good deal of swampy land, and if there was in existence some settled principle for its drainage, there would be an increase of land available for agriculture. He thought, therefore, the time had arrived when the attention of the Legislature might be d : rec*ed to providing some system of making their swamp lands suitable for agriculture, and he would promise the member for Bruce that if he would consent to the bill being read a second time, merely for the purpose of affirming its principle, the Government would, during the recess, devote its attention to the preparation of a drainage measure which would enable drainage works to be carried out throughout the colony. The ■ subject of irrigation had been brought up, and , he thought the two subjects might very well be legislated upon together. Mr FOX said the Premier had an unfortunate way of tantalizing members by giving them only a portion of his history at a time, just in the way in which he had spoken of his Irish estates and his snipe-shooting excursions. He would prefer that, the hon gentleman would give them his life and adventures all at once, and not in this tantalizing little bits. It would be much better that he should give the House his biography with his Irish estates in a schedule, so ("hat if any of them should happen to visit the old country, they might have the pleasure of walking over his possessions. [Mr Stafford : I'll get the hon gentleman a map of Ireland if he likes.] The fact was his hon friend the member for City East had noo suggested that there should be an increase in the number of Ministers. His object was rather to point out some other duties, more appropriate to the capabilities of the gentleman on the Government benches, in which they would be more likely to excel than in the fulfilment of the functions which were supposed to devolve upon them As regarded the principle of the bill he entirely sympathised with it, because everybody in this country was a farmer, or thought himself one ; but he would like to see the state improve all their estates it it was going to improve any at all. PerI haps the hon memberowned a piece of swampy land. (No.) Well peihaps he was possessed of a piece of drv land which he would like to see watered. He (Mr Fox) had also a piece of land, which could perhaps be called neither wet or dry, but it had some big trees on it, and he should like to have some of the money of the state spent for his benefit, if the system were to be commenced, and after his land had been cleared of trees and toi toi he would like to have it stocked with sheep and cattle. He would be willing to support some bill of the kind that would be likely to be beneficial in its character, but the one before the House was so imperfect, that he could not support it. He would like to see some bill introduced which would be wider in its scope, even if it extended to the Irish estates of the hon gentleman at the head of the Government. . The bill was read a second time on division by 37 to 6. THE PRIVILEGE CASE. The SPEAKER informed the hon member for Ashlev that be had not yet received any reply to the telegram forwarded by the Attor-ney-General to Christchurcb, and as the evening was getting late it was not likely that they would get any answer that night. He would therefore suggest that the hon member

for Port Chalmers should proceed with his motion.

Mr MAC ANDREW then proposed, " That the Speaker request Mr Justice Gresson to postpone the hearing of the case Lee v. Brown without expense to the defendant till fourteen days after the prorogation of the House. Mr J. C. BROWN thought it better to make a statement, in order that members might form an opinion on the matter before the House. Before leaving Canterburj he was served with a summons or copy of a plaint by a neighbor, who claimed £2OOO for damage done by a fire which one of his servants had caused on the run. Nothing was done before he left Canterbury, and he understood it was the intention of the other side not to proceed, but about six days ago he received a letter from his legal adviser informing him that the case had been set down for trial and that it would be necessary for him to go down to Canterbury to be present at the trial, as he (the counsel) knew none of the witnesses, and he (Mr Brown) would be subjected to heavy expenses if the case were delayed in consequence of his absence. In his reply to that letter he stated that it would be impossible for him to leave his duties in Par lidment; that he had bills in his charge in which the interests of his constituents were very greatly concerned; and that he should apply for a postponement of the ease. Last evening he received a letter stating that he (Mr Brown) treated the matter too lightly, and that Mr Williams (the opposing counsel) would not consent to postpone the case, and after the adjournment of the House he received a telegram stating that if the case were postponed at his instance he would have to pay all expenses, no matter what the cost. The House must understand that he was a witness in the case, and it was impossible the case could go to trial with any chance of obtaining justice for himself unless he went down to prepare for the trial. He hoped, therefore, the House would protect him in the matter, as he understood from the construction placed on the clauses of the Privileges Act, 1866, by the Speaker and the AttorneyGeneral that he was not entitled to a certificate from the hand of the Speaker which would entitle him to remain in attendance upon his Parliamentary duties, without its being prejudicial to his interest. After further discussion, the following motion was passed on the motion of Mr Shkehan: —"That the Speaker do issue a certificate under his hand in respect to the hon member for Ashley, to the effect that the attendance of the hon member is required during the present ses-ion of Parliament." LIMITRD LIABILITY JOINT STOCK COMPANIES AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was read a second time, on the motion of Mr Steward. OTAGO WASTE LANDS BILL. This bill was committed, and after progress made, the bill was reported, and the House adjourned.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, September 19th. The Hon the Speaker took the chair at 2 o'clock. • new member. The Hon H. Lahmann was sworn in in the usual form, and took his seat. IMMIGRATION AGENTS. The Hon Captain ERASER asked the Hon the Colonial Secretary whether it was the intention of the Government to send persons from this colony, to act as assistants to, or to be otherwise under the control of the AgentGeneral ? The Hon Mr SEWELL said the Govern ment had no such intention. OTAGO EDUCATIONAL RESERVES. The Hon Captain FRASER asked the Hon. the Colonial Secretary what, action the Government intended to take with reference tc the Otago Educational and other Reserves ? He regretted to say that, although the representatives from his province had come to parliament this session in a compact mass and animated by one mind on this question, the genial waimth and blaze of the genius of the late Colonial Treasurer had completely deglutinnted that mass, and made it as plastic as could be desired. The Hon Mr SEWELL said the Government were giving their most anxious considertion to the subject, and would be only too happy to do all to meet the peculiar circumstances of the province of Otago, in as far as that was consistent with the interests of the remainder of the colony. NATIVE LANDS. Thfl Hon Mr HALL moved, That it is desirable this Council should be informed when and in what manner the Government proposes to remove the restrictions now in force preventing any persons, other than the Government, from purchasing certain native lands. After explaining previous action which had been taken in regard to dealing with native land, the hon member quoted from the speech of an hon member in another place (the hon member for Timaru) to show that a most distinct and binding promise had been made to the natives, through their representatives, in regard to enabling them to deal with their lands. He looked therefore upon such a statement as that as a binding promise, and he held that it was most important that the Council should be informed when and in what manner the Government intended to fulfil that promise. The Hon Mr WATERHOUSE wished to point out, before the Hon Mr Sewell replied, that the Government had issued proclamations affecting not only lands in regard to which tiny had a legal control, but affecting native binds generally throughout the province of Wellington. Such a course he held to be utterly illegal, and it had been a source of frreat dissatisfaction to the natives themselves. The Hon Colonel WHITMORE also referred to the dissatisfaction felt by the natives on the oppressive actim of the previous Go-

vernment, as a fact which had at various times come under his own knowledge. No doubt certain portions of the country affected by the proclamation of the late Government should be treated in that manner; but to undertake to deal with such a large area of territory as had been done, showed a profound ignorance of the whole question on the part of those who were responsible for such action. The Hon Mr MENZIES did not take the same view of the subject as some hon members. It should be recollected that the fate of the late Government long trembled in the balance owing to the great importance attached to their native policy—or rather to the personal influence of one member of the Governvernment —and under these circumstances he could not think it judicious on the part of the hon member to exact a promise from the Government in the present heat and turmoil of the political atmosphere, and before they might be said to be firmly seated.

The Hon Mr MANTELL also advised the hon member to curb his impatience and not press for an answer to a question that would require the greatest deliberation. The Hon Mr SEWELL could not help regarding the motion of the hon member as of rather an unfair character, and calculated to embarrass the Government by demanding in a hurry that which could not be decided upon until after the most weighty consideration. Still he had no hesitation in answering his hon friend, though he might inform him that he was acting" upon an erroneous apprehenhension of the law. The intention of tho Government was to avoid giving any dissatisfaction to the natives by not imposing these restrictions at present in operation, and for imposing which certain powers had been placed in the hands of the Government. He might shortly say that it. was the full intention of the Government to enable the natives to deal with their lands to their own satisfaction in the full sense of the words of his hon colleague, and which had been quoted by the hon the mover. Motion agreed to. THE WELLINGTON CITY RESERVES BILL was read a second time and passed. LAW PRACTITIONERS ACT. The Hon Dr BUCHANAN resumed the debate upon the second reading of this bill. He said that although he moved the adjournment, he had really very little to say on the subject. In the remarks which he intended to make, he had been anticipated by several members who had preceded him. He should not, however, like to give a silent vote, and at the risk of repetition he had decided upon saying a few words. Before doing so, he begged leave to express his regret at the action he had taken when his hon friend Mr Mantell asked leave to introduce the bill. On that occasion he opposed his doing so. That opposition was offered on the spur of the moment, and without due consideration. He was very glad indeed that the Council had seen fit, in opposition to his opinion and the opinion of others, to allow the measure to be brought in. If the Council had not done so, they would have been chargeable, and very properly so, with want of courtesy to the Public Petitions Committee; a committee one of the most hard working and useful. In the second place, it would have been an injustice to the unfortunate individual. Last session he (the speaker) had done all in his power to promota the views and wishes of Mr Smythies. He (Mr Smythies) had also been heard at the bar of the other branch of the Legislature, after which an Act was passed, relegating to the Court of Appeal to decide whether or not be should be readmitted to the practice of his profession. That remit was made in order that the question might not be decided according to the impulses of the heart rather than the understanding. This duty was very properly relegated to the highest tribunal for its decision. That decision they had now had in their hands for some weeks past, and in the face of that decision he did not see how he could support, the motion. He had listened with the greatest attention and interest to the previous upeakprs, in the hope that he would have heard something to induce him to change his opinion. Unfortunately he had heard nothing that induced him to alter this determination. In suite of the eloquent appeal of his friend Mr Wafcerhouse, the clever arguments adduced by Mr Mantell, and the fervent address of Captain Fraser. nothing had transpired to induce him to alte* his convictions. After careful perusal of the evidence and summing up of the judges, as reported in the pamphlet, he could arrive at no other conclusion than that he must record his vote against the bill. In suppoi-t of that determination the speaker read quotations from the pamphlet in question, after which he went on to eay that by passing such a bill the Council would be simply stultifying itself, besides imputing recklessness to the judges by whom the case was tried. However repugnant to his feelings it might be, his duty was clear, and he would be unworthy of the seat he occupied in the Council if he hesitated in discharging that duty. He would still isten patiently to the speakers who had yet to address the Council, and he would be only too glad if anything was brought forward to induce him to alter his views. The Hon Captain BAILLIE said that he had been chairman of the Public Petitions Committee, to which Smythies' case bad been referred for consideration. With one exception all the members of that committee agreed that it was desirable that an Act should be passed to have him reinstated as a solicitor before the Supreme Court of New Zealand. He believed that the petitioner had never been struck off the rolls. The only restriction is that if he practices his profession he is, under the provisions of the existing act liable to bo mulcted in a penalty of £SOO. Mr Smythies practiced his profession for one or perhaps two years after the passing of the Act before the cudgels were taken up against him. He

looked upon Mr Smythies as the fly, around •which a complete web had been woven. They had not given him half a chance to retrieve himself. For the last four or five years he had appeared before the bars of both legislatures seeking relief. He knew very little ab jut Mr Smythies, never having spoken to him until he appeared before the Petitions Committee, and on that occasion he formed a very strong opinion that he (Smythies) had been an ill used man. The speaker went on to detail the circumstances of the offence alleged against. Mr Smythies, which he maintained had been condoned by his subsequent admission to practice at the bar of New Zealand. What, he now suffered for was for his alleged subsequent conduct, which had been explained by those who had investigated the matter to have been worse, but rather a very great deal better than that of the counsel pitted against him. The Hon Mr HART gave reasons why he did not intend to voteat all upon the question. He admitted that the reference made to the judges was clogged by restrictions ; on the other hand he looked upon the fact that the whole profession was banded against. Mr Smythies as evidence of something being seriously wrong on his part. A Voice : Mr Bathgate has expressed a favorable opinion on his behalf. Mr HART went on to say: Well that is only one out of perhaps twenty who had expressed an adverse sentiment. The Hon Mr BONAR was bound to say that in his humble opinion Mr Symthies had received the utmost consideration at. the hands both of the Legislature and the judges. If the Council were to reverse the decision arrived at by the judges he (Mr Bonar) thought they would be doing very wrong indeed. He objected to their placing themselves in the position of legislating for one man. They should conduct their legislation-so as to lay down general principles rather than take up individual cases. It had been found ihat the offence committed in England had been condoned, but it had also been found that the subsequent conduct of Mr Symythies had been irregular. To his mind there was no other course open to them but to reject the motion.

The Hon Mr MANTELL replied. He said that the whole 'of the twelve members who had expressed an adverse opinion had all hinged upon the one objection The opinion seemed to be that if they interfered in the matter they would be guilty of contempt of the Supreme Court. So far from that, he contended that the Judges had left the matter in its present state for their further action. Had any professional man in the colony, he did not care who he was, been tried by the same standard that they had meted out for Mr Smythies, he did not believe that he would have gained his readmission. If any member of this Council were to be struck off the roll for three years, and then sought to be reinstated on the strength of his upright conduct during the interval, he much questioned if he would succeed. (A laugh.) The Act under which Mr Smythies was disqualified was passed in the year 1866. It was solely directed against this particular individual. The particular clause was brought up and passed at the instigation of members of the bar in Dunedin, and very probably the clause itself was drawn up by members of the Dunedin bar. He would repeat that the clause was solely directed against Smythies. That was evident from the remarks that were made at the time ; remarks to the effect—" That Smythies had better look out now." So firmly persuaded was he that the Judges had left the case as it stood with the view of allowing them to take further action in the matter, that if they would consent to the second reading he would ask them to remit it to a Select Committee in order that the evidence of Mr Justice Johnston might be taken. He asked would hon gentlemen consent to that ? A voice—No.

Mr Manteil proceeded to say : Well, that will decide the questian. It was evident how the matter would go on the vote. At the same time he would inform them that sooner or later they would have to do justice to this much injured man. On a division there voted for the motion 7 ; and against it 21. The motion was accordingly lost. PUBLIC HEALTHS BILL. This bill was further considered in committee and passed as amended. The Council adjourned at 10 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, 19th September. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30. LEAVE OP ABSENCE. On the motion of Mr Macandrew leave of absence for ten days was granted to Mr Tolmie. lETITIONS. Mr Paeata presented a petition from certain natives praying that they be permitted to sell their land to whom they please. Mr White presented a petition from 600 inhabitants of the West Coast praying that the County of Westland and the Nelson South West goldfields be united under one form of government. Mr White explained that the petition was the one he had stated to have miscarried. He had since discovered that the petition was not posted but had been forwarded as freight, and had been deposited in the wharfinger's office committer, reports. Mr T. KELLY presented the reports of the Public Petitions Committee which were read. Mr W. Kelly brought up the reports of the Native Lands Committee which were also read. NATIVE MATTERS. MrTAIAROA asked the Premier whether the Government were willing to appoint a committee to inquire into the unfulfilled promises to the Ngaitahu, or whether the Government will cause such inquiry to be made without further delay ?

Mr STAFFORD said he had no objection to the appointment of a committee, and, in fact, if the committee were not appointed the Government would see that inquiries were made into all promises to the natives which remained unfulfilled. ASHBURTON AND ORARI RAILWAY. Mr REID, in answer to a question by Mr Studrolme —whether the Government intended to proceed at an early date with the construction of the railway between the Ashburton and the Orari—said the Government had no intention to proceed with the railway during the recess, which ho understood to be the real question to which the hon member required an answer. The line was undoubtedly one of the connecting links between Timaru and Christchurch, but the Government had not the slightest intention to proceed with it during the recess. RAKAIA BRIDGE. Mr STUDHOLIYIE, in asking the Minister for Public Works when the bridge across the Rakaia would be open for traffic, said the time at which the bridge should be opened was during November, but. he understood it would not be opened till March. It was of great importance that the bridge should be opened in time for the wool season. Mr REID quite concurred that it was important that the bridge should be opened at the earliest date, but he must point out thut the work was rather a complicated one, having been commenced by the Provincial Government and completed by the General Government. He could not state definitely that the bridge would be opened in time for the wool season, but every exertion would be made to accomplish that object. . RAKAIA AND &.SHBURTON RAILWAY. Mr BLUETT, in asking the Minister for Fublic Works what steps the Government proposed to take with a view to the construction of the railway from the Rakaia to the Ashburton, in the province of Canterbury, said he did so in consequence of the statement made a few days ago by the hon gentleman ai the head of the Government, to the effect that it was not the intention of the Government to proceed with any new railways. It seemed, therefore, that there was little chance of some of the- Canterbury railways being proceeded with, a course which wouldgive rise to considerable dissatisf'action.as a number of persons had taken up land on the faith of these railways being proceeded with. Mr REID said he could only give the hon member the same answer he had given yesterday to the member for New Plymouth,'that it was the intention of the Government to bring down a scheme showing the works which were to be undertaken during the current financial year. They proposed to invite the attention of the House to the consideration of that scheme, which was not a scheme to which members would be permitted to add new lines, but was a well-defined scheme to which the Government intended to adhere. The data for the Rakaia to Ashburton line was placed in the hands of Mr Brogden yesterday, and he would make known to the hon member any further information as soon as it came into the hands of the Government. The proposals of the Government to which he had alluded would be laid on the table as soon as possible.

WAITAKI- MOERAKI RAILWAY. Mr REID, in answer to Mr Steward, stated that this railway was exactly in the same position as the line referred to by the member for Coleridge, and the reply to the previous question must be accepted in this case also. CUSTOMS EXEMPTIONS. Mr CURTIS, in answer to a question by Mr Steward—whether, in accordance with the promise made to the House by the late Government, instructions had been sent to all the Customs officers in the colony, for the exemption of portions of agricultural implements and machinery from import duty—said he found that instructions had been sent by his predecessor to two ports of the colony—Dunedin and Oamaru. Instructions were not. sent to other portions of the colony, because it did not seem necessary. The instructions named were that parts of agricultural machinery should be admitted free, the same as the implements themselves. Since then a further request had been received from a large firm at Oamaru for further remissions, and they had been requested to send a complete list of the articles which they desired to be admitted free, but that list had not yet been received. It was exceedingly desirable to avoid sudden alterations in the Customs laws; frequent changes in that respect were always objectionable, and if by a liberal interpretation of the Customs Act the remissions desired could be made, he would endeavor to meet the representations made on the subject as the Government would encourage local industries in every way they possibly could. EGMONT ELECTION. Mr T. KELLY asked the Premier whether he would take steps to provido polling places in ono or two districts in the Egmont district, where no polling places existed. Mr STAFFORD said he was not aware whether the Government had any power to interfere in the matter after the issue of the writ He was inclined to think that the law prohibited any alteration of the polling places after the issue of the writ. Iu this case, however desirable it might be that additional polling places should be erected, the Government were precluded by law from taking any Bteos.

Mr KELLY inquired whether if the hon gentleman found he was not pi-ecluded by law from taking steps in the matter, he would comply with the request made. Mr STAFFORD said undoubtedly he would if the law allowed it and there were proper representation made on all sides. If each candidate on the nomination day desired that additional polling places should be erected the Government would in all probability comply w ith such a request, but they would

not do so on the representation of any single candidate. THE CHIEP PATHONE. Mr SHEEHAN asked the Premier whether he intended to give instructions that the funeral of the chief Patuone should be a public one. He would like to be allowed to say that there had not been a man amongst the natives who had so signally identified himself in the interests of the Government during the wars, or who had shown such steadfast loyalty as Patuone. The public of Wellington had set. a good example in making the funeral of Te Puni a public one, and as Patuone was a man of much greater importance that example should be followed in Auckland. The case was one in which they should show both respect and svmpathy. Mr STAFFORD said he had instructed Dr Pollen to provide a coffin, and to carry out the wishes of the hon member. PIItST READINGS. The following bills were read a first time : —A. bill to provide for the Constitution of a Native Council for the Middle Island, a bill intituled the Nelson Counties Bill—to meet the discontent existing on the Nelson South West Goldfields —and a bill intituled the Miners Right Extension Bill, were read a first time. The object of the latter bill is to meet complaints originating in the fact that miners taking out miners' rights on the Nelson side of the Grey River are compelled to take out a fresh miner's right if they crossed over to the County of Westland, and vice versa. Mr WHITE would be glad to support the latter bill if its provisions were extended throughout the colony. Mr CCUTIS, the mover of the bill, promised to make this alteration. PROMISES TO NATIVES. On the motion of Mr TAIAROA, a Select Committee was appointed to inquire into and report upon the unfulfilled promises to natives in the Middle Island. EXPENDITURE NORTH OP AUCKLAND. Mr KATENE moved that it be an instruction to the Government, to separate the expenditure on roads and public works north of Auckland, in respect of the Bay of Islands districts, from the expenditure for roads and public works between Auckland and the Bay of Islands. Mr GILLIES assured the hon member that it was the intention of the Government to consult the members for the district in regard to the expenditure of the money, and <dso to consult the Provincial Government in order to get the benefit of their advice, their knowledge, and their co-operation in the carrying out of the work. Mr KATENE hoped the Government would retain the control of the expenditure in their own hands and avoid the confusion which would likely be occasioned by reference to the members for the district, and the Provincial Council. Motion agreed to. PORTOBELLO ROAD.

Mr TAIAROA moved Ihat the House resolve itself into a committee of the whole on Wednesday next, to consider of an address to his Excellency the Governor, requesting that he will cause to be placed upon the estimates the sum of £SOO, for the construction of a road from Portobello to Otago Heads. Mr STAFFORD thought it right that the House should have an opportunity of discussing the subject. He was not prepared to say what course the Government would pursue, because the matter was one that would not end with the present motion. It was opening up a very large question to ask the Government to make roads through native lands without any contribution being forthcoming from tho natives themselves. He was inclined to think the matter was one rather for the Provincial Council than the Assembly. He did not know much about the native lands at Portobello, but he was under the impression it was not a very valuable estate. The revenues, at any rate, derived from the land were not very great. He would be prepared to say in committee what course the Government would adopt. The motion, after a short discussion, was passed. PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE. On the motion of W. Kelly the name of Mr Sheehan was added to the Public Works Committee. CUSTOMS RETURNS. Mr C. PARKER moved for a return of the Customs Revenue collected for the months ending July and August, 1872; also, for the corresponding months of 1871. Motion agreed to. CORRESPONDENCE. On the motion of Mr Bradshaw the correspondence relating to the mining encroachment case of Eagar v Grace, and also the judgment delivered by Mr Justice Chapman in the case the Queen v Beetham and another, having reference to the said case, were ordered to be laid upon the table of the House. RETURNS. A motion of Mr Creighton for certain returns in connection with the annual statistics was agreed to. NEW DUTIES. Mr CREIGHTON moved for a return, in detail, showing how the sum of £15,077 "new duties," referred to in the financial statement, was made up, specifying the amounts received under each head of revenue, and the port at which such revenue was collected. Motion agreed to. WATER SUPPLY. The following amendment, proposed by Mr Sheehan on Mr Macandrew's motion for the granting of a sum of money for obtaining water supply to the Otago goldfields, was negatived on division by 29 to 23 :—" In the opinion of this House the sum provided by loans for water supply on goldfields (excepting the sum of £50,000 to be held in reserve for new goldfields), should be allocatedamopgst the gold producing provinces and the county of Westland, upon the basis of mining popu-

lation ; and that the sums so allocated should bo handed to the chief local authorities for expenditure upon waterworks, to be approved by the General Government, and upon such conditions as will insure that the money shall be expended only on approved works." Bellamy's. MrBRADSHAW_. in moving that it be an instruction to the House Committee to consider the advisability of admitting strangers to Bellamy's and the lobbies every sitting day of the House after the hour of half-past seven in the evening until the adjournment of the House, on the condition that each stranger admitted must be introduced by a member of the Legislatui'o, said his object in moving the motion was twofold —either to throw the admission to Bellamy's open to all strangers or to exclude them entirely. He found that an evil was growing up which was rapidly tending to destroy the freedom of speech and action of members of the House. Members were buttonholed for their vol es, and it often became necessary for the Chairman of the House Committee to resort to the unpleasant couirte of ordering persons out of the lobby who hud no right io be there. He had also seen clerical gentlemen in the lobbies, whose object he presumed 'was to enlighten and instruct a certain class of members how they should vote in educational matters, and if those gentlemen had the right to be present in the lobbies he had a right to expect that clergymen of his church should be permitted to enter the lobbies to instruct member of his persuasion how they shouid vote. Government contractors, too, were permitted to visit Bellamy's, and if contractor?, no matter of what standing, were granted that privilege he should assume that he had a right to introduce any contractor with whom he was acquainted to enlighten him upon contract works and their cost. He raised the question for the purpose of curing an evil of a most objectionable character. He had been informed that persons were in the habit of walking about the lobbies, and after hearing what members had to say telegraphed it throughout the colony. He thought it better that strangers should not be allowed to enter Bellamy's at all. Mr G. B. PARKER (Chairman of the House Committee) thought the hon member had argued against the resolution be had put on the paper. It seemed he was anxious that the matter should be brought before the House, but he (Mr Parker) hardly thought it worth while to bring a matter of such small importance before the House without its being first considered by the House Committee. He was quite prepared to agree with him that there were on the list of persons having the entree to Bellamy's some names which it would have been discreet not to put there : in fact, there was one name which he very much regretted had ever been placed on the list at all. He did not think, however, that the proposal to swamp Bellamy's with strangers would be an improvement. All they could do would be to keep the lobby as clear as possible for the present session and reconsider the list of names of persons having the entree at the commencement of the next session.

Mr STAFFORD presumed that the meaning of the motion was that the lobbies had been too much frequented by strangers. That difficulty, however, had sprung up in consequence of the Legislative and Executive Departments being in the same building. He could bear testimony to whai had been stated by the hon member who put the motion on the paper that a very great inconvenience amounting almost to a nuisance, had been experienced from-the way in which members were hunted about by strangers who had no business to approach them within the Legislative Chambers. He thought some very stringent rule should be adopted to put a stop to a practice which had become very marked during the last, two sessions. The dinner hour interupted the hon member, and the debate was adjourned. PINANCIAL STATEMENT. Mr GILLIES stated to the House that he hoped to be able on Tuesday evening to make his statement of the financial position of the colony. Mr YOGEL asked the hon member when the Public Works Statement would be made. Mr GILLIES thought it would be laid before the House on Wednesday or Thursday next. MUNICIPAL CORPORATION WATERWOHKS BILL. Mr VOGEL moved ihe second reading of this bill, which confers upon municipalities powers in regard to the raising of money for the construction of waterworks which are not contained in the Municipal Corporations Act. The mode of borrowing is prescribed, and the bill contains a clause under which two-fifths of the ratepayers of any municipality can prevent the borrowing of money if they object to the construction of waterworks. The bill also contains provisions for making compensation for land taken for purposes of waterworks construction. The bill was read a second time. AUCKLAND WATERWORKS BILL. This is a bill to enable the Corporation of Auckland to borrow £150,000 under the provisions contained in the Municipal Corporations Waterworks Bill. The bill contains the provision that two-fifths of the inhabitants of a municipalit.ymaypreventthe bill taking effect. Mr YOGEL said he would in committee propose a clause relieving the province or the colony from liability on account of the amount borrowed under the bill. The bill was read a secend time. THE INTERPRETATION BILL. A bill under this title, providing that the Clerk of Parliaments, instead of the Clerk of the Executive Council, shall endorse on Acts the date of assent, &c, was read a second time. THIRD READINGS. The Auckland Mechanics' Institute Site Sale Bill and the Auckland Temperance Hall Site Sale Bill were read a third time and passed.