MILITARY OBJECTORS.

New Zealand Herald, Volume LXVI, Issue 20304, 11 July 1929, Page 14

MILITARY OBJECTORS.

TWO AUCKLAND CASES

'APPEAL fO MINISTER FAILS.

REFUSAL TO INTERVENE

THE SENTENCES TO STAND

[BY TELEGRAPH. —SPECIAL REPORTER. 1 WELT,INO T() N. Wcclnesdn y

"I tell you definitely, gentlemen, 1 will irW nothing in these cases," declared tho minister of Justice, lion. T M Wilford, to-day, in answering a deputation of 13 Presbyterian ministers who asked for a remission of the sentences on A. M Lichsircls and Alexander Miller, the two Auckland divinity students who were iccently lined £5 and deprived of civil rights for ten years for refusing to attend drill *' 1 f these young men are wise, they will pay the fine," added Mr Wilford. If "not, they must take the alternative. Tho principal spokesman of the deputation, Dr E N. Merrington, master of Knox College, Dunedin, said the deputation was not in any sense a pacifist one, sis many members of it, including himself, had been chaplains during the war It was a representative deputation united in an effort to secure tho remission of the sentences on two young men who were conscientious objectors. On the same day on which Richards and Miller had been dealt with tlireo Seventh Day Advcntists. had been granted exemption. Alternative Service Accepted.

Mr. \Vilfor;l: That is not correct • 'lhey accepted alternative service. Dr. Merrington: Was that fact made public '! Mr Wilford; 1 received a telegram from the military authorities in Auckland notifying mo of that fact. Continuing, Dr Merrington said the deputation represented the General Assembly of New Zealand, four presbyteries and all previous deputations on the subject All were agreed that members of tho Presbyterian Church should be given freedom of conscience as fai as military service was concerned It was claimed that tin- Defence Act, 1912, should lie administered, having due regard for the provisions dealing with conscientious objectors.

The Minister: Veil mean the clause applying to pood faith? Dr. Mcrrington Yes Dr Meirington added that the young men concerned were sincere in tlu-ii belief that military service was against tlie;r conscientious beliefs. In view of the fact that tiie Presbyterian Cliurcli li'ad given (reei'oin of conscience in the matter to its nienihers it was contended the State should do the 'same. The Presbyterian Church asked that the discrimination between denominations should he removed, otherwise such eases would always he recurring. The Church also maintained that tho right to 'prescribe alternative service rested not with the magistrate, but with tho Governor-Gcneial-iii-Council

In tho cases under review it was submittdd tho maximum penalties imposed v.'bro (oo severe and constituted a travesty on justice if the young men did not pay tho fines -it was believed they ■were liable to imprisonment. Alternativs to Fines. Dr. Meri'irigton confessed that .ts a chaplain • ho would, like to see tho men tlo training, but if their consciences dictated otherwise they should liavo the right to hold to their beliefs.

Answering an inquiry by the Rev. D. D. >Scott, the Minister said Cliristadelphians, Heyenth Day Adventists and members of tjie. Society of Friends had been placed in u category apart, because their creeds definitely disclosed an objection to military training on conscientious grounds. The Rev. Dr. J. Gibb commented on the fact that the magistrate had doubted tho bona fides of tho young men. Ho had nevertheless offered them alternative service, but would not give them exemption. To-morrow or the clay after Richards •would have to go to prison, action having, been deferred until the result of tho deputation Was known. Dr. Gibb prophesied that there might be nation-wide agitation as a result of theso cases. -Mr. Wilford: That does not frighten me.

Dr. Gibb: I know tlio Minister is a man who sticks to his principles. The clear, temperate and logical manner in which tho deputation had presented its representations was acknowledged by Mr. Wilford in replying. He agreed with much of what had been said, but ho thought that, as ministers of the Gospel, the members of the deputation bad confused the authority which interpreted tho law with the authority which, executed it. Tho making of the law was tho function of the State; the interpretation and application of the law was the function of a Judge or a magistrate. The Judge or the magistrate was concerned with what the law was and whether it was being violated.' " A Political Protdst." In the present cases the magistrate had to determine whether under the Defence Act, 1912, tho young men were conscientious objectors. Mr. F. K. Hunt en two occasions, and Mr. F. C. Cutten Jind Mr. Pi. .McKean all said tho young men wci'o not conscientiously objecting. ■ "Let us take the case of Richards," the Minister said. lie drilled at school, and when he left he was asked what regiment, he would like to be posted to. lie choso C Company, First Battalion, Auckland Regiment, and was duly posted after that, and before drilling he started to ji ro test against military service as a young politician, and not as a conscientious objector, saying: 'T believe that preparations for war, because war is wholesale murder at the bidding of politicians too inept to settle international disputes, and of financiers, armament manufacturers, etc., bent on gain, are iin-Cliristian, and that therefore it is my Christian fluty to take no part, in them.' " "Is that," asked Mr. Wilford. "a political or religious scruple?" . Tho Deputation ; Religious. • Mr. Wilford differed, and said that Captain Wales went to see Richards, and on asking why he objected was told "we are out to bust tho Defence Act." On tho first llireo appearances Richards paid fines ranging from £1 to £5, showing no intention to object. But to-day ho proposed to immolate himself on the altar cf sacrifice "I Will Not Do Anything." Continuing, tho Minister said: "Von hie asking me to set at • dofianco the judgvnont ot magistrates who are sworn to act fairly and who have made four decisions in tho case of Richards. 1 tell you definitely, gentlemen, I will not do anything in tho case. Tho clear duty of ft magistrate in such a case is to ascer--lain by asking questions or other means if tho applicants are conscientiously ob j acting. If he does not believe they are conscientiously objecting ho would not be worthy of the name of a iriagistiate if ho granted exemption." Tho Minister said he would see that types of alternative service were gazetted. When that was done alternative service conkl bo allotted. After examining .the results, of .his predecessor's efforts, Mr Wilford admitted that tho question of alternative--service was very difiicult and ho invited tho deputation to .'suggest suitable types of such service. "I hops these young men are not foolish onough to pri to prison. concluded !Mr. Wilford. "They will gain nothing. 'I he- public now will be able to iudgo Richards "

Answering a riuestinn reoarrlwir 'VTiller, !MY t VVilford, said that previously, in ]D27, Miller hrul done Id's 42 rlrilla Dr. Morrincton: Could not <hero he 0 mitipation of !bo loss of civil riphts ? ■Mr. W ilford: T.iat can bo i'C viewed at any limo.