PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume LXI, Issue 18756, 9 July 1924, Page 12

PARLIAMENT.

mm w^ DISCUSSIOH CONTINUED. ME. MASSEY PARTICIPATES 3DABOIS iMABim FOLLOWS [BT TEWGR£Jm.~- SPECIAL, KKPOBTTEn.] WELLINGTON. Tuesday. Leisure hours during the week-end had enabled members-to concoct quite a flood of questions with which to inundate Ministers in; the .House of Representatives "to day. Besidea notices of questions there were several without notice. Two addressed, to the Minister for Railways produced interesting answers as to the cost of the commission of British experts which is to investigate, the affairs of the department, and as to intentions with regard to staff rejection following the introduction of the 43 hours' week.

Leave of absence for four days was granted to Mr. P. J. Rolkston (Timaru), on account of illness.

Before the debale on. tho Opposition amandment. to the Address-in-Reply was commenced the Speaker raised the matter of interjections. While these fwcre courteous he would not intervene, but if they took on the appearance of heckling or were persistent and continuous he would have no alternative but to stop all interjections. The House, however, was not greatly moved by the first three speakers, and there wa3 no need for intervention.

Interest quickened when Mr. Massey rose two minutes before the dinner adjournment His speech was a vigorous direct reply to the Loader of the Opposition. By permission of the House his speaking time was extended by 30 minutejL -

Personal explanations followed from Mr. Wilford and Sir. E. A. Ransom (Pahiatna): The Leader of the Labour Party, Mr. Holland, was next. After chiding the Government and the Liberals for what he called "family quarrelling" and, declaring that his party would support the Liberal amendment, Mr," Holland proceeded to a long .explanation of his platform' in regard to land reform. The Government and Liberal benches were practically empty after the supper adjournment. Mr. Masscy, however, was one of the few in his place. A point of order was there Tore raised ,by Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon), as to whether a quorum was present. The Speaker ordered the bells to be rung, and .one or two more members appeared. It was then declared-that a. quorum was present. The debate was adjourned at 10.30 p.m., oh the motion of Mr. J. Edio (Clntba)-and, the House rose at 10.30.

GOVERNMENT SUPPLIES.

MAKING TENDERS PUBLIC.

PRICE. SOMETIMES WITHHELD.

f>Y TKUSOSAPH.—SPECIAZ, BEPOBTEB-5 WELLINGTON. Tuesday. A proposal that all tenders for Government .supplies should be gazetted was put to. the Minister for Rail ways and Public. Works, Hon. J. G. Coates, by a deputation, 'from" the executive of the Associated Chambers of Commerce. Mr. H. I) Vickery (secretary), produced a recent Gazette containing a list of tenders inserted " for public information/' He asked whether the practice could not be mndo general; ' The matter was of impoitarci» to. loral merchants, and also to the representatives of oversea firms. M»tty =ai;h representatives went to much expense ever cablegrams and specifications and they would be glad to have something to show their principals if they did net succeed that at least they had K-en active. Very often they could not even find but the name of the successfa' tfiideier. , The Minister remarked that a Government department should not be placed in a worse position than a private firm. He did not : think that any unsuccessful tenderer would" fail to get the name of his successful;rival if he applied to the! department for it. The Government had I good reasons'for not laying all its cards on the table so far as tenders were concerned. Sometjmes a very much better price was obtained subject ;to the condition; that the: price was not disclosed. It often paid a concern .to quote below the normal- trade rate for a Government contract, which was often unusually large. ■ : .- '" , " Wj ar/> entitled to the advantages of r-y'ng a Government,"-he added. "We are out to buy, not a3 cheaply as outsiders, lut nnnh more cheaply." Mr. Vickery: I think you invariably do. ■

Mr. Coates remarked that in many cas-35 i/.'ie' Government could not advertise lie results, but he would give the deputation a considered reply later.

SINANCE FOE HIGHWAYS.

COUNTY COUNCILS' SHARE.

j REMEDIAL BILL PROBABLE. [BX XELEGBAPH. —SPECIAI. BEPOBTEB. ] ..-. :'.-.■'•;•' WELLINGTON, Tueeday. The difficulty with which county councils are. faced in financing their share of proposed works under the Highways Act was mentioned in the House of Representatives to-day by Mr, J. C. Thomson (Wallace). He asked the Minister for Finance whether it was intended to introduce legislation to enable these local bodies to.raise the necessary loans. Mr. Massey replied that the matter was under consideration, and in all probability a bill would be introduced during the present session.

MR* ISITTS POSITION.

NO TRUCK WITH LABOUR.

STILL A STRONG LIBERAL. [BY TELEGRAPH. — SFECL&Ii BBPCIITEE.] WELIJNGTON. Tuesday. "i have nothing to say about the political situation," remarked Mr. L. M. Isitt, M.P., on Safcnrday. Mr. Isitt, it was recently announced, has definitely decided not to again seek re-election to Parliament. His decision, Mr. Isitt stated, was due to pri#ate reasons. Pressed for a statement about the political situation, Mr. Isitt declined to discuss the matter. "All. I have to say on that subject," he said, "is that I have never wavered from the position-I took up six years ago at the 1913 elections, when I thought there was a chance of the Liberal Party; getting into power nnder the domination of the Labour Party. I coneidered that that would be a very serious thing to-happen, and it was then I resolved not to associate myself with any such position. ■ I am just as strong a Liberal as ■ ever, bat so long as there is a chance of the Libera! Party, gaining office under Labour domination I determined that I would not vote for the party but with the Government." _. ..

JMBATE IN TEE HOUSE PRIME MINISTER SPEAKSWEAK MBERAL SPEECHES. QUESTION OF TAXATION. MR. HOLLAND AND LABOUR. [BY CTCEGBAPH.—SPECIAL aBPOHTKE.] • WELLINGTON.: Tuesday. • The debate on the Address-in-Reply was resumed in the House of Representatives this afternoon. The firsit speaker, Mr. P. A. de la Perrelle (Awarua), followed the prevailing craze for mixed metaphors m his opening. "Curing the recess," he said, "many political kites have been flown by Reform. They have all.fallen flat and cut no ice." (Laughter.) Mr. de la Perrelle went on to picture the whole country as anxious for a Change of Government—everybody, in fact, except the wealthy class." A eulogy of tho Liberal Party followed which, if it was in the middle of the road, he said, could neither be ditched nor accused of rail-sitting. . Special reference to the money advanced by the Government to Muir's Gold Reefs was made by Mr. T. W. Rhodes (Thames), who followed. Nothing wrong, as Mr. R Masters (Stratford ]| had suggested, was involved in the transaction, for which there were many precedents. Tho assistance given might be the means of proving a goldfield giving employment to thousands of men and greatly enriching ! the Dominion. As for Mr.' Wilford's | amendment, there was so point in it to which the Government was not giving attention. Mr. Rhodes declared himself in favour of agricultural banks. Thero could be no harm in giving the farmers power to finance their undertakings as best they could. (Liberal "Hear, hears.") Mr. Wilford's visit to Thames was the spoaker's next subject, which b.B traversed at some length, along with references to the result of the Liberal leader's meeting at Pukekohe.

Air. S. G. Smith (Taranaki) replied to Mr. Rhodes' remarks,about thei Pukekohe meeting with, a suggestion 'that Mr. Rhodes was interested because; he wanted to find out who would be the next Liberal candidate for Thames. Mr. Rhodes: Not a bit.

Mr. Slmith went on to attack various acts of the Reform Administration, and then paused on to some personal criticism of Government speakers in the debate.

The Same Old Speech.

The two minutes which remained before the dinner, adjournment were occupied by the Prime Minister in combating some of Mr. Smith's statements. After dinner the Prime Minister commenced a brisk castigation of the Liberal Opposition. " I am sorry," he said, " that I cannot congratulate the Opposition members on their speeches. . (Labour "hear hears.") I should be glad to do so for the credit of Parliament, but I cannot. As for the

Opposition Leader, in his speech, there was 'not one new thought, not one bright word, not one gleam of wit to shed light on old commonplaces.' " (Laughter.) Mr. Massey described the speech ists the same old one that Mr. Wilford had trotted round New Zealand in the recess and before the last election, and now he served it up to the House again as; if it were new. instead of being stale. The weakness of Mr. .Wilford's stand since he decided, to put on the "soft pedal'" twelve years ago. was traversed by. Mir. Massey until during ■ the recent railway strike there came the extraordinary statement that the Opposition leader was not in favour of the strike, but in sympathy with the strikers. "That expression, ' the middle of the road,' was most unfortunate," said Mr. Massey. "Travellers there were bound to meeit with trouble. They were almost certain to get a bump that would land them in the ditch." *

The Taxation Commission. .The criticism that the Taxation Commission was not representative was Mr. Massey's next point. Supposing;, he said, business men, agriculturalists and labour had been represented, and it; had to be remembered that they were dealing only with , direct taxation, there would have been no possibility of their agreement. He had selected the members because they were experts on taxation and its incidence. They had done their work welL " I will not promise to accept their recommendations," he added, "but their report will be exceedingly valuable and uaeful to the Government in connection with the legislation proposed for this session " ---■■■ -

At Waipukuran the Opposition Leader had said "taxation had been heaped on the people in every possible direction." Mr. Wilford was not kind enough, however, to remind his audience that the cost of the war was the reasoD of tax increases, nor did he 'say that, they were reduced at the first opportunity.

A Summary of Reductions. A summary of the redactions in taxation last year was then given by Mr; Massey. These included land.and income tax, £1.175.000: amusements, £25,000; tea, £112,000; penny post, £20,000; total £1,563,000. "Who will say now that we have not lowered taxation?" challenged the Prime Minister, who proceeded to quote from an Australian report, which said "the harassed taxpayers of the Commonwealth looked with envy at the compact little Dominion which was the only Government in AoKtraiasia to reduce taxation,"

State Advances Moneys. Mr. Massey then referred to another story which had been "carted round the country," namely, that he had taken inoney from the State advan<:es account and invested it in New Zealand war loans, so that he could say that the flotation of the loans had been successful. The term used had been "filched." He had asked for a report on the whole matter and he found from the report that' it went back as far as 1895, jfrom which year it had been customary to make temporary investments when the department had funds lying unused. The only money invested in war loan stocks wtis £725,000 in 1818, before he assumed control, and the whole of this had been purchased by the Treasury for cash during his term of office as Finance Minister. He had taken office in the middle of 1920. Just before that his predecessor, .Hon. A M. Myers, had reinvested £275,000, and subsequently a further £250,000 in British War Loan stock. After taking office he (Mr. Massey) reinvested £150,000. on the recommendation of the Treasury. Since then the investments had steadily decreased, until now not a copper was owing. The Leader of the Opposition had said that the Government had not a majority, continued Mr. Massey. "Well," he asked, "what other party in this House can say that it has ? We , have and we are the dominant party. The Leader of the Labour Party gave the whole show away when he said that he was at war with the Liberal Party, and it would have to do what it was told. I have no doubt that if the so-called Liberal -Labour Party came into office the Leaider of the Labour Party would stand behind and say what it must do and must not do, and: the hon. gentleman (indicating Mr. Wilford) would have to give in. Once the two parties were associated; nominally for the purpose of bringing in proportional representation, but it would not have stopped at that. An offer wsts made to Labour, which 'turned it down' contemptuously. I notice that the Leader of the Opposition is reported to have told one meeting that he had addressed 600 girls in Japan. I am' sorry for the girls. fi ' (Laughter.)

" A Family Quarrel. H

The Leader of the Labour Party, Mr. H. E. Holland, in opening, said he wished to associate himself with those speakers who had made sympathetic reference to the departure of the Governor-General. Lord Jellicoe had proved himself to be the most popular Governor-General since the days of Sir Georgo Grey. Mr. Holland expressed "pain and regret" at the family quarrel be had watched during the past few cUys between Liberals and Reformers, He commanded to them some verses of Dr. Isaac Watts. .; ; ...

Mr. Wilfard: Satan can quote Bcrij:

tore. Mr. Holland: The hon. gentleman of co-arse knows all about Satan, bnt Satan will claim his own. (Load laughter.) 1 hope we will not see any more of these regrettable displays of passion between members of one family. (Laughter.) Referring to. the Liberal amendment, Mr. Holland said he thought the House would have been wise if it had voted on the question at the beginning. Mr. T. W. Rhodes (Thames): Hear, hear.

Mr. Holland: And yet the member for Thames this very afternoon occupied his full hour. Everyone knew beforehand, he added, what would be the result of the division. eternal three " would constitute the majority. There was nothing new to be learned. The Imprest Supply Bill had decided that, but possibly the Government was encosuragmg the debate because the bills were not ready, Mr. Massey: They are ready.

Support for Amendment. Mr. Holland continued that the Labour Party must support the amendment because it was an attack on the Government, and because it contained many planus that were part of the party's platform. It had been accepted by the Government as a vote of no confidence, and as such Labour accepted it The Labour Party would not like the Liberals run out to the middle of the road to avoid the issue. (Laughter.) There were omissions in the amendment such as electoral reform and the question of supplying New Zealand with coal from within the Dominion.

A Liberal Member: New Zealand coal will not run the railways. Mr. Holland: The only reason why it cannot be used as profitably as imported coal is because the locomotives were constructed to consume other than New Zealand coal. • ,•■•■•.

Continuing,. Mr>Holland said the member for Stratford (Mr. R. Masters) had said that the Reformers had unfairly tried to blacken the loyalty of the Liberal Party. That was done, and unfairly, bnt Mr. Masters had said that Mr. Massey was a bosom friend of the Rev. Howard Elliott, a man who was one of the greatest disloyalists in the country, and whp had made an attack on the throuo which would have landed any of the Labour Party or any of its press in the Courts for sedition. However the Liberals had used Howard Elliott when it suited their book in by-elections and elections against Labour candidates. Moreover they had never hesitated to impugn Labour's loyalty, and the Liberal press had been more viciously slanderous in this connection than Keform organs. Mr. W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) : Do you say the Labour Party is loyal? Mr. Holland: it is more loyal than those profiteers who refused to sell their wool when it was required by tho Imperial Government for the conduct of tho war.

A vote of no-confidence in the Government could be carried, continued Mr. Holland, if Mr. Wilford could induce the whole of the Liberals to vote With him, hnt it was the old story that some of the Liberals saved the Government all the time and all the Liberals some of the time. (Laughter.) The adjournment was moved by Mr. J. Edie (Clutha), who will resume the debate to-morrow afternoon.

SOLDIERS' LAND PURCHASE.

GOVERNMENT'S POSITION.

CHALLENGE TO MR. WILFORD. [BX TELEGBAPH. SPECIAL BEPOBTEB, J WELLINGTON. Tuesday. .4 re to statements by the Opposition that the membere of the Government had favoured friends in purchasing land for soldier settlement was made, by Mr. Massey, in the House this evening. The only positive assertion against the Government was that it had bought land from its own friends at prices higher than actual values. / "If yon know of anything of the sort," Mr. Massey told Mr. Wilford, "let us have it on the hoor of the Honse. I promise you an opportunity to prove it, but there has been no corruption so far as the members of the Government are concerned. Not one has taken advantage to himself. I challenge you to accept my offer, or if you have no definite charge then to hold your peace." Mr. Massey explained that the Government, as a Government, did not buy land. Most of it was selected by the soldiers themselves. Otherwise it was bought by the Land Purchase Board, no member of the Government interfering.

DOMINION AT WEMBLEY.

PRAISE FOR THE EXHIBIT.

LETTER TO PRIME MINISTER. [BT TELEGEAPH.—STECJIAI. EEPOBTKB.] WELLINGTON. Tuesday. Some criticisms of New Zealand's display at the Empire Exhibition were met by the Prime Minister in the House of Representatives this evening, in reply to statements by Mr. S. G. Smith (Taranafci). " I conld not help thinking," said Mr. Massey, "that the member for Taranaki was not ill pleased that the Dominion's court was not a great success. Mr. Smith: Your impr«ssion is quite wrong. Mr. Massey: I am glad to hear it.

Later, he * added that he had been given a letter from a Wellington resident who said ho had been disappointed with the court on the opening day. Many of the exhibits had not arrived, and the building was not ready. The court attendants were at their wits ends to answer various complaints from visitors, but today, said the writer under date June 2, the exhibition was altogether different. As a practical demonstration and from a utility point of view to prospective settlers New Zealand's display - was far ahead of that of Australia and even that of Canada. The latter, however, was the most wonderful in the whole of Wembley. Tha writer added that New Zealandere felt very proud of their showing and especially commended the display oi' wool. The dairy produce, meat, honey., and fruit sections were also very finei Unfortunately the fishing exhibits were not complete, although the stuffed specimens were attracting favourable comment, but that the writer understood was nothing to the frozen exhibits yet to arrive.

" There you are," triumphed Mr. Massey, waving the letter at Mr. Smith. "It is just as I expected. I was certain the exhibition would do us a great deal oil credit when,all the facts were known."

NORTH VERSUS SOUTH.

DEPRECATION BY MEMBER.

INVERCARGILL EXPENSES.

[By TELEGBAPH.— SPECIAL BEPOBTEB.]

, WELLINGTON, Tuesday. A plea for the augmentation of the railway express service to and from Invercargill was made by Mr. P. A. de la Perelle (Awarua) in the House of Representatives this afternoon. At present, he said, there were only three through express trains a week. Letters . posted in Wellington on Saturday were not delivered in Invercargill until Wednesday morning. A great deal was made in the North Island of the fact that the southern railway system was not paying, but they used to pay their way and help support those in the * north. In any case he had no patience with setting south against north. They, were one country and should be treated alike. His plea was. for four, through express trains a week.

PBEHIEB IN BBITAIN.

SHARE IN ELECTIONS.

MR. JULIAN GRANDE'S PART.

ACCUSATION AND DENIAL.

[B? lELEGEAKE. —SFECXSZ, BEPOBTKE.] WBI*LINGTONV Tuesday. '

His conduct during the British elections was defended by the Prime Minister in the House of Representatives this evening in reply to the criticism of the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Wilford. Incidentally Mr. Massey made a rather grave charge against Mr. Julian Grande, the mountaineer journalist. " The hon. gentleman ha 3 said that I interfered indiscreetly in the British elections," said Mr. Massey. " I will tell you whatsit amounted to. I was asked on several occasions to help certain candidates. I always refused. Once an interviewer tried to get out of me' my opinion on the elections and he succeeded to some extent. All I would say about the elections was that I desired to see more patriotism and less party." Mr. Wilford: "Sfou said more than that. Mr. Massey: I said no more and no less. Mr. T. K. Sidey (Dunedin South) made an interjection. Mr. Massey: I told the citizens of Belfast that I would send some New Zealand citizens over to have a look at them, I might send the hon. member. Reverting to the interview Mr. Massey said that the little party hacks, the Daily News and the Daily Herald, took it up. Telegrams were sent from New Zealand to certain journals in England asking them to " make it hot for Massey." Mr. Wilford: No. Mr. Massey: Do you know amw named Grande?

Mr. Wilford: Do you mean Julian Grande ?

Mr. Massey: Yea. Mr. Wilford: I had him in my room here

Mr. Massey: I thought so. That's an admission to make (members: Oh!). Mr. Julian Grande took an article to an official of theJSfew Zealand Government in England and said that he could get it into any English newspaper unless he were given remunerative employment. Mr. Massey added that when he reached Belfast the election was practically over and he addressed meetings only on trade matters. B> spoke at meetings in Canada by invitation and in spite of what might have been said ho had good receptions. . r

fhe Manchester Guardian, which held that he had been attacking British policy, did him the honour of sending a repre- | sentative round after him. "It said that I went to Canada and found fault with British policy," he continued, "I am a British citizen, and entitled to take as much part as anyone. I went to the poll in London to test it. I inquired whether my name was on the roll, and it was." Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon): Did you vote for the Labour candidate? Mr. Massey: I went to test the question. You can joke about it aa about other things. The Manchester Guardian asked me for an article on Imperial preference. I jumped at the offer. They printed it complete, with big headlines and my portrait at the top, and sent me a cheque for 10 guineas. Mr. & J. Howard (Christchurch South): It is out of date all right. Mr. Massey: It discovered afterwards that I was attacking British policy. Mr. F. Langstone (Waimarino): Did you send the tenner back ? Mr. Massey (emphatically): Not L (Loud laughter.) Later Mr. WilfoTd claimed that the Prime Minister had conveyed an innuendo that he had been instrumental ha sending cablegrams to Britain suggesting that attacks should be made upon him. "I give it a positive denial," he declared "and I say that it is a wicked lie if anyone says so." He added that Mr. Grande had been sent to see him because he had known the late Mrs. Grande. They talked about politics, and Mr. Grande sent the London Daily Telegraph an interview which purported to give the effect of the conversation. "I left in September," he continued, "and I waa away until January. The Prime. Minister was in Eng'.and while I was in the East. How could I have sent telegrams from New Zealand to England ? I resent the innuendo and the half -truth." The Prime Minister rose to make an explanation, and reiterated his statement that Mr. Grande had told the official that he would publish the article if ho were not given employment.

OEEPUKI SHALE DEPOSIT.

BONUS ON PRODUCT URGED.

PETITION FROM SOUTHLAND. [BY TELEGBAPH.—SPECIAL BEPOBTEB.] WELLINGTON. Tuesday. A bonus of 3d a gallon on crude shale oil produced at Orepuki, Southland, during a period of eight years, conditional upon the production of oil and other products being resumed within 12 months, was asked in a petition presented in the House of Representatives to-day by Mr. J. C. Thomson (Wallace), on behalf of local bodies and others in Southland. It was stated that about 25 years ago an English company * established expensive shale works at Orepuki The discontinuance of customs duties on shale products, oil, paraffin-wax, etc., caused the closing of the works. A bulk test was made four and a half years ago, 57 tons of shale from the seam being sent to Scotland. The result showed an average yield per ton of 34.41 gallons of crude oil and 19.121b. of sulphate of ammonia. The various oils and solid paraffin were re-/ ported to resemble the products from the shale of Scotland. It was further claimed that the existing works were still quite modern. Their capacity could be increased from 60 to 240 tons a day. The plant had been maintained in good order, and the difficulties experienced in the treatment of the shale, owing to its richness, had been overcome. In addition to the bonus a request was made for assistance in the matter of railway' freights.