COUNCIL REFORM.

New Zealand Herald, Volume L, Issue 15411, 20 September 1913, Page 9

COUNCIL REFORM.

THE DEBATE CONTINUED. BOTH SCHEMES CONDEMNED. COMPOSITE CHARACTER FATAL. [BY TELKGRArH.— riIESS ASSOCIATION.] Wellington, Friday. The debate on the Legislative Council Bill was resumed in the Council this afternoon by the Hon. J. Anstev, who condemned the proposal of the Hon. J. Rigg , that the party list system should be adopted in connection' with proportional , representation. This, he said, would hand , the election over to small but organised ; cliques. Ho disagreed with its two main , principles, that the Council be elected on a democratic franchise and by proportional i representation. Ho agreed that there , ought to be an intermediary power between the Crown and the House of Rei preventatives, but he foresaw that if that power was elected there was the danger that it would either become a duplication ; of the Lower House or 'it would become i the dominating power. Proportional Representation Condemned. Regarding proportional representation, , ho could not support it under any circum- , stances. Tasmania was the only country , in the British Empire where it had been tried % and Mr. Mansfield's report on its 1 working there showed that it was not at • all satisfactory. In Now Zealand under I that system the country districts would , not get fair play. More than half our population was centred in the cities and boroughs, and it was there that the organisations existed. Therefore no country • candidate was likely to get the necessary quota to secure election. He favoured a continuance of the nominative system for the seven years' term? That system was , not free from objections, but these were . not insuperable. Equal representation ; should be given to all parts of the Dc- ; minion and to all classes of industries. . A council chosen on those lines should , make an efficient chamber. If, however, the nominative system could not be retained, and something different must be found, then he was prepared to give a modified support to the draft Bill brought down by committee. Necessity for Safeguards. ! The Hon. J. E. Jenkinson said that although he had voted against the second reading of the Government Bill he could not overlook the fact that the- Council had twice accepted the principle of election) and therefore he was not going to hinder ! any further the passage of the measure, and would vote for clause 9. When in Committee he would try to amend the Bill eo as to secure such safeguards as he thought necessary. If such safeguards were not inserted he would vote against the third reading. The Hon. C. M. Luke said the Council was passing through a crisis in its history. After giving the problem the fullest consideration, he was still of the same opinion as tho Hon. J* R. Sinclair that a partly elective and partly nominated Council was the beet. If the principle of election was going to be introduced then it must be election by the people direct. He felt the [ people could be trusted and tyat on the whole the best men would be chosen. A nominative element in the Council would be a steadying and corrective element in an elective body, and the Government : should have the right to appoint men of outstanding ability and special service. Hominxtioa and Party "Freedom. When the Council resumed in the evening the Hon. W. C. F. Carncross said as one of cos committee which, drew up the roport ho knew that it was impossible to please everybody. »He was surprised to see some members still favoured the partially nominated system. He felt confident the partially nominated and partially , elected could not give satisfaction. Let it ;be either one or*the other. He himself . favoured purely the nominative. He had i not heard one argument favouring the systern of election, not because he did not . believed the people were not well fitted to , elect representatives, but because in case of a political crisis there should be one house , entirely free from party politics, i Mr. Carncross, continuing, said it was ; a great pity that in the past the GovernI ment had sent into the Council only memi ber with their own particular political . thoughts. Had it been otherwise the nom- | inative system would never have been . brought into disgrace. ' ! The Hon. C. H. Mills considered they vogjd be unwise to undermine the grand • old Constitution which had been honoured for so many generations. The debate was adjourned and the Council rose.