MR. PAYNE'S VOTE.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XLIX, Issue 14925, 24 February 1912, Page 8

MR. PAYNE'S VOTE.

«> SCENE IX THE HOUSE A SENSATIONAL LETTER. ! READ BY MR. 31ASSEY. MR. PAYNE DEMANDS AN INQUIRY. | A BREACH OF PRIVILEGE COMMITTEE SET UP. j | TO REPORT IN THREE DAYS ! [BY TELEGRAM!. —SrKCtAI, CORRESPONDENT.] ! Wki.i.ikctox, Friday. • A SK.NSMION.M. incident occurred in | the House of Representatives to-day, ; and the confidence debate was inter- | rupted by a motion of privilege referring ; to a letter read by Mr. W. F. Massey, (Leader of the Opposition. i The discussion which led to the read- ' ing of the letter, and the moving of a ; question of privilege, was commenced by | Mr. J. S. Dickson, member for Parnell, ! in the afternoon, and was continued duri ing the evening sitting. ! Mr. J. S. Dickson (Parnell) referred i to the statement in circulation that Mr. : Payne had been offered £1000 to change j his vote. Reference had been made to the I matter in Parliament, and he thought it his dntv to state what he knew ot the 1 matter in the interests of the House, and I irt the interests of the electors ot the t Dominion. ! Mr. Dickson paused for a minute or two \ while a messenger went to fetch Mr. ; I Payne into the House. | When Mr. Payne arrived, Mr. Dickson j ! said that on Friday week last Mr. Payne ! had stated to him, and to the Leader of : the Opposition, that he was going to j i support the Opposition on the no-con fi- I j deuce motion. On the following Thins- ; i day be saw Mr. Payne again, and told j him that a friend of his had sent a letter I down stating that a betting man in Auck•j bind was certain' Mr. Payne would break i his pledge, and oppose the Opposition on ; a no-confidence motion, and that the man 1 was making bets on it. The member for ! Grey Lynn met the Leader of the Opposition, and the-speaker on Friday last, I and he (Mr. Dickson) put the question ! to him. At first Mr. Payne did not ackI nowledge it. He (Mr. Dickson) then told j Mr.: Payne that there was a rumour go- ' ing about Auckland, and asked him to i contradict it. Mr. Payne then said— I j have been offered a sum of money. I was called into an office by a gentleman in Auckland, and I have been offered that sum of money to vote for the. Govern- | ment." Sir Joseph Ward: Why don't you say | what office, and who the people were ? j Mr. Dickson: I did not ask him, and | Mr. Payne can explain who offered it. Mr. Payne: You know. Mr. Dickson: I don't know. ! Mr. Payne: You do. 1 told yon so. No Accusation Against Government. . 1 Mr. Dickson: I will be very glad if j he will tell us who was so contemptible as ! to endeavour to get a man representing i a respectable constituency to change his i vote because a hundred golden sovereigns I were dangled before his eyes. Mr. Dickj son added that he did not say for one ' moment that it was any member of the | Government who made the offer. He was I not accusing them, or any member of the . ! party. He added that he had every rea- \ son to believe that Mr. Payne was not : the only member of tlvj House who had j an inducement offered to him. Mr, Glover: I never had any. Mr. Dickson said he considered that in j the public interest it was the duty of tho I member for Grey Lynn to explain the ! matter to the. House.

; Prime Minister Wants More Detail. j Sir Joseph Ward urged that it was the I duty of Mr.' Dickson to make his statej merit more explicit. The point was that, ! the Government had offered— I Hon. Members: No, no. ! Mr. Dickson: I never said so. ! Sir Joseph Ward: If he. cannot explain j itMr. Massey: I was there when tho statement was made.

' Sir Joseph Ward :• I want, the hem. } member to say what he means on that j point. He implied a reflection on somei one outside the House. The lion, gentle- | man should name the office. He implied i that the suggestion was made on behalf ! of the Government. (Cries of " No, no. ') i The member for Parnell should say what I was in his mind. Mr. Fisher asked if the Prime Minister I was not' but of order, as he was making | neither a .personal explanation nor a Ministerial statement. Mr. Speaker said it was a request for a more clear statement on the matter, and the Prime Minister was speaking with the indulgence of the House, which it was usual to give in such a case. Mr. Dickson replied that if the Prime Minister was so "dense that he did not understand what he had said, he would repeat it again, and he did so. Sir Joseph Ward asked whose was the merchant's office Mr. Payne was called info. Mr. Dickson : I leave that to the hon. member who is on your side of the House to explain. '■' . Messrs. Brown, Glover, and Payne rose at the same time to speak, and Mr. Payne was called upon.

Mr. Payne Explains. Mr. Payne said that in deciding to change his vote, lie was influenced very largely by the fact that this rumour was in the air. He had to consider the fact that this innuendo had been circulated, and, therefore, had to consider very carefully exactly what he was doing. It required some considerable strength of character on his part. Ho explained that Mr. Charles McMasters, of Auckland, had come forward at the first ballot and had worked very hard for hint. He (Mr. Payne) suspected that Mr. McMa.sters had some reason for this, nevertheless, he had to accept his services. When he first' met. that gentleman he was a strong Ward supporter. Between the first arid second ballots, however, lie became a Massey supporter. Ho (Mr. Payne) assumed that Mr. McMasters was desirous of selling a corner section at. Grey Lynn to the Government for. a post office, and that he hoped to use his humble ►servant, Mr. Payne, as tho means of attaining that end. That was the rumour that was going on in Auckland just now Finding ho had failed on the. Government side, it would seem as if he had * transferred his affection." to the'other side of the House—to .Mr. Massey. Mr. Payne added that Mr. Massey had mentioned a' remark made in Auckland that he (.Mr. Payne) had been fixed up m Napier by. Mr. Vigor Brown. He (Ml. Payne) had already heard that such a re mark was circulated in Auckland, and Mr. Massey '.showed him a letter from Chas.' McMasters, in which" it was stated that the writer was prepared to donate £100 to -"your nominee." That was

signed by Mr.' O'Connor, of the Thistle Hotel, in- Queen-street, and addressed to Mr. McMasters, and he sent it down to Mr. Massey. When Mr. Massey made his statement about the .£IOOO offer, he (Sir. Payne) said he could see the reason for tho rumour, and could tell him the party name. He was called into the office of Mr. Maurice O'Connor, by Mr- Chas. MeMasters, who cried, " Do you know I Lave been authorised to give you anything between £500 and £1000 if you will go rathe direction of the Ward party." "He, added Mr. Payne, "did not give me any further explanation. I looked right past him, and took no notice of his remarks.' The same gentleman called a- meeting in Auckland the other night, with the object of forcing me to keep my pledge to M'\ Massey. "He also sent- a letter, signed by himself and several others, in which lie urged upon me to vote for the Ma.-scy party, because iF I did not, I would lose their confidence in Grey Lynn." Mr. Brown Seeks Explanation. Mr. Vigor Brown said that as his name bad been mentioned he had right to an explanation from the Loader of tho Opposition. Mr. Massev : You'll got it. Mr. Brown: In regard to my offering £1000' Mr. Massey : No. f did not say that. Mr. Brown: If he'll admit it outside I will put him in bis proper place. Mr. Massey: He'll be in his proper place in another week or two. Mr. Massey Makes a Statement. Mr. Massey said he would now say where he had come into this matter. "On that day fortnight lie arrived in Auckland, and while he was in the Public Works Buildings Messrs. Payne and Dickson came over. The latter told him that Mr. Payne had come to Auckland particularly to see him, and asked for 'a quiet conversation. They went to Mr. Dickson's office, and the. latter informed him when they got there that Mr. Payne was inclined to break his election pledges. They proceeded to discuss the question. Mr. Payne: What did 1 reply, please? Mr. Massey: I am going to repeat every word as far as. 1 can recollect that passed between us. Mr. Massey continued, stating that he tried to point out to the member for Grey Lynn what a serious thing it was for "a member of Parliament to break his pledge:, to his constituents. Then he told Mr. Payne about a. rumour current in Auckland! of which he had heard from at least a dozen sources, to the effect, that Mr. Payne had gone over to tho Ward Government, and that ho had been "squared." He told Mr. Payne that some of the people of Auckland were saying this, and that if lie went over all of them would say it. Mr. Payne said, "Where was 1 squared?" He replied Mi at the story in Auckland was that Mr. Payne had been equaled by Mr. Vigor Brown and Sir Joseph Ward, at Napier. Mr. Payne said that he intended to see the chairman and the secretary of his committee, and suggested that they should meet again in the afternoonMr. Ell: Why didn't you tell the Prime Minister about that ? Mr. Massey continued that lie agreed to Mr. Payne's suggestion, and that lie met Messrs. Dickson and Payne again at Mr. Dickson's office at 2.30 p.m. Mr. Payne said that his chairman and secretary were quite agreed that the proper thing for him to do was to stick to his pledges. Ho (Mr. Massey) said to .Mr. Payne, "Well, I think it is the proper tiling for you to do."

An Interview in Wellington. Mr. Massey, proceeding, said that on the day after he came to Wellington Mr. Payne came to see him, and Mr. Dickson was present. They again proceeded to discuss matters, and Mr. Payne told him that he had again changed his mind and felt inclined to go over to the Ward Government. He told Mr. Payne that to do so would be to disgrace himself, to disgrace his constituents, and to disgrace him (Mr. Massey). because he bad recommended him to his friends as one worthy of their support. Mr. Payne went away without making any definite statement on that occasion, but promised to come back and inform Mr. Massev before he made up his mind what to. do. "Since then," said Mr. Massey, ''I have had no conversation with thjf member for Grey Lynn. He has gone his way arid I have gone mine. I have brought no pressure to bear upon Mr. Payne."

Answering an interjection, Mr. Massey I stated that in his presence Mr. Dickson } asked Mr. Payne if he had been offered | money. Mr. Payne replied, "I was called into a business man's 'office in -street, and' I was offered either £500 or £1000." Mr. Massey added that he took no part in this conversation,- but. he distinctly heard I Mr. Payne say that he had been offered the sum of £500 or £1000 to break his pledge I and vote for the, Ward Government. "I j asked no questions," said the Leader of I the Opposition. "I.don't want to be mixed j up in any question of that sort." A Government Member: You are mixed J up in it now. ; Mr. Massey: I made.no offer. Dr. 'JL'e Ra,tigihiroa: You used the rumour j to influence his vote. j Mr. Massey : I told him what the people J were saying. He added that he had only j met Mr. McMaster two or three- times in | his life. Mr. Payne: Did he say something about i a. post'office last time you met? . Mr. Massey : I have no recollection of it. I only knew Mr. McMaster as Mr. Payne's secretary of committee. Mr. Massey Beads a Letter. Mr. Massey then read a letter from " a very well-known man in Auckland," as follows:—"February 12. You may remember introducing you to young — '■ —, son of ——, one of the Young Catholic party, who do not follow Ward. Ho worked hard and loyally for- us in Parnell, Ponsonby, and especially in Grey Lynn. He now assures me that Payne has been squared .-. (£1000) to support Ward on a confidence motion. So sure is he of the correctness of the information that his dad is offering level money up to £100 on Payne voting against you on such motion, and -does not waste any money •on bets without some reason."

Mr. Massey stated that after receiving tht> letter ho showed it, or at least read it, to Mr. Payne. . Mr. Payne: I have never seen that letter before. Mr. Massey: Does Mr. Payne say that 1 did not read that letter to him in my room ? Mr. Payne made no audible reply. Mr. Massey concluded by stating that he "was very very sorry that he had over become acquainted with Mr. John Payne, the member for Grey Lynn. Sir Joseph Ward 'said* tho letter was a copy with blanks where the signatures and names should be. These blanks should be filled in. Mr. Massey replied that it was only a copy; he had not the original with him. Sir Joseph Ward contended that the original should ho produced." .Mr. Speaker: You ore entitled to the document that was lead. Sir Joseph Ward asked fur the blank document in the meantime, and it was brought to him by a messenger. Mr. .Massey asked whether it was not a. ride that private, letters need not be laid on the table. ' " . Mr. Speaker concurred, but added that it was .questionable: whether a letter referring,, as this -.tic did, to members, should be considered a. private letter. An Unsigned Letter.

Sir Joseph Ward, holding the paper in j I his hand, said it was a letter written in i pencil, not addressed to anybody, a.nd dated February 17. He then read it. lav- : I ing stress on Inn .icif'cratihg 'that it : i was written in lead pencil, and thai there ; was no signature to the jotter. j Mr. W; C. Buchanan: You ruled, Mr. Speaker, that nothing that has' not been read to the House need'be put on the table. Is not the Prime.Minister question- ! 'ing your ruling v.lien he asks for.some-.] ■' thing more than what was. read," to be! laid on the table?-. .' ... . j The Speaker: I understood the Prime Minister to be commenting on die docu- ! ment and the way it was worded. j Sir Joseph Ward: Yes, the Leader of.l the Opposition must recognise that this j letter in . blank contains a -most serious charge against- a member of the House. Mr. Allen: What is the charge? 1 J

The Prime Minister: That somebody offered him £1000 to change his vote. Mr. Allen': Don't misinterpret; that's not a charge against him. The Prime Minister: Tho writer asserts that Mr. Payne has been squared to vote for tho Government. It is tho duty of the Leader of the Opposition, not a. matter of sentiment but of duty, to state from whom lie received the letter in fairness to a member of this House, and to the House and the country, and to produce the letter. What member of this House is safe if this sort of thing can be done, and can be received with "equanimity and without dissent? Here is a reflection on some firm of merchants in Auckland in whoso office somebody is said to have made an offer. Prime Minister's Disclaimer. VI. take the opportunity,", said the Prime Minister, " of saying, as my name is mentioned, and Mr. Vigor Brown's name is mentioned, that I was in Napier a day and a night on my way to Taupo, and I only saw Mr. Payne on three occasions, and 1 will take my. oath outside the House that 1 never so much as asked him what bis political leanings were. Mr. Laurenson: You are too much of a gentleman. The Premier: I never suggested that ho should support the Government, or what he should do. I never attempted to influence him directly or indirectly, and no man in this House can say I ever offered a sum of money to anybody to support the Government, directly or indirectly. I never asked anyone in the country- offer a member money, not a single selling, to get his vote. (Hear, ■'near. I'Would consider it.far worse than to 'offer"'to any man who was in doubts as to what party he would support, to make a line of railway in the event of my getting back into office, and I would look on it as a lingo political bribe, do-.. testable in the extreme. You can't find any man to whom I over said that in the event, of my coming into office I would have a line of railway made, or any other public work to induce him to support me. Can tho Leader of tho Opposition say the same? Mr. Massey: I can. I never offered a bribe in my life. The Premier: I did not, say a bribe. The proceedings were here interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. A Question of Privilege. When the House resumed tit 7.30 p.m. Sir Joseph Ward asked whether a breach of privilege had not been committed in laving an anonymous letter upon the table "of the House. Mr. Massey proceeded to stato the circumstances under which he read the letter, and in the course of a discussion which followed Mr. Massey said be was quite'willing to show the Prime Minister the letter. Sir Joseph Ward: But I want to be in a position to prosecute the man who wrote it, That is the proper thing to do. As a matter of ordinary fairness, the Prime Minister asked tho Leader of the Opposition to supply the names of the people who wrote the letter. It was tho common duty of all to protect the reputation of members. The onus should be. thrown upon the member for Napier and himself of defending themselves. That was the way, to raise the tone of political life in this country and prevent aspersion being cast upon the characters of members.

j The Speaker Eules. i The Speaker said that nothing in the document under discussion made any definite charge against the Prime Minister or Mr. Vigor Brown. The member for Grey Lynn, he understood, would speak for himself. The Prime Minister had asked whether a breach of privilege had arisen in connection with a reflection upon himself and Mr. Vigor Brown. . Sir Joseph Ward interjected a reference to tho rumour about Napier. Mr. Speaker : There is nothing in this letter about it. I am of opinion that there if) no breach of privilege in laying this letter on the table. Mr. Payne's Position. A question of privilege was raised by Mr. Payne, who said ho was placed in a very awkward position by the statement in the letter." His honour had been bej smirched throughout tho length and breadth of tho country, and he asked the Speaker to rule whether the original letter should be tabled, so that ho would bo given information that would enable him to prosecute tho people responsible for the letter. The Speaker ruled that the Leader ot tho Opposition was bound to produce only tlio portion of the letter he had read, It was for the Hoiuxj to decide whether .there had been' a breach of privilege against tho member for Grey Lynn, and if it decided, in the affirmative, to set up a Committee of Inquiry that would bo authorised to make inquiry regarding tho authorship of the letter. ■ Members'drew attention to a number of rulings .AthJ!cli l ''Yhey suggested made tho ' production "or the original letter necessary, : but.the. Speaker ruled that tho document before the House was not an anonymous letter or a summary of a letter. It contained certain extracts from a letter which tho Leader of tho Opposition described as signed, and containing names, none of which he desired to mention.

Mr. Massey reminded tho House that ho was called upon to state what occurred at tho .interview, and in response to •Che request 'of Mr. Payne he read a portion of the letter. There was no charge against Mi*. Payne. Mr. Brown Claims Privilege. Mr. Brown raised a further question of breach of privilege, as ho said tho Leader of the Opposition had stated that ho had a letter informing him that tho member for Napier and the Prime Minister had given Mr. Payne £1000.

Mr. Massey: That is not so. He added that thero was no mention of Mr. Brown's name in the letter, directly or indirectly. There was a rumour related regarding Mr. Payne, tho Prime Minister, and Mr. Brown, but in tho conversation which he had related thero was no mention of money in connection with their names.

Mr. Payne Moves For Inquiry. Mr. Payno said that a dishonourable charge had been made against him, and asked for a full inquiry, hjto the matters. He moved: "That the" publication of the extracts from the letter was a breach of the privileges of the House." Mr. Veitch Urges Inquiry. Mr. W. A. Veitch, Wanganui, seconded the motion, because it referred to a member of the Labour party, and that party should have an opportunity of clearing itself. Ho would not say who was right or wrong; that would be out of place at tho present time. They had got into a. most unfortunate position, when an hon. member of that, House brought forward charges against another hon. member, and was not prepared to take up that charge. He said any charge made against a member of the House should be proved up to tho hilt, and the responsibility in this case rested with the gentleman who had brought the matter before the House. He said there was some feeling of intimidation with regard to how their votes were going to be recorded. It was duo to tho people of New Zealand that they should see whether this was a genuine charge or not. t ■

| Members Support the Motion. j Mr. Hunan (Invercnrgill) supported the ! motion heartily. The member concerned I should be given, an opportunity to clear ; himself from such a charge made upon [mere hearsay. He believed (his was a, \ dastardly charge, and asked why it was I not proved in-the Supreme Court. i Mr. F. M. 1.5. Fisher, Wellington, hoped 1 the House would unanimously pass the ' motion. j • -. Statement by Mr. Robertson. I Mr. J. Robertson (Otaki) supported the ; motion, lie .-aid from ; , Labour's man's ! point of view the charge assumed a special I significance, in view of the no-confidence , motion that was before the House. Mr. j Payne, had announced that ho was going ■i to change his vote, and now. tins charge was brought up. It looked as if it were meant to intimidate the Labour members K

Ho could see a way to vote for tho Government and still keep his pledges. He referred to tho charge as an attempt at assassination, and his colleague, Mr. Payne, should have been given an opportunity to clear his character. What Was The Charge? Mr. H. D. Bell (Wellington Suburbs) said the charge was not that the hon. member for Grey Lynn had received money, but that he had . been offered money* Government members : " Squared." Mr. Bell said it was the straight thing for tho leader of any party to tell a man of charges that were being made against him, so that ho should have an opportunity of clearing himself. Tho Hon. J. A. Millar said there were two charges, and they were so mixed up that the inference was that £1000 had been received. If Mr. Payne had voted with the Opposition ho believed they would never have heard anything of the charge. Tho Opposition party, had decided to bring this matter up three days ago. Mr. Massey: That's not so. Mr. Millar: Very well. Tho charge in the letter was that Mr. Payne was squared, and there was a statement that ho had been offered £1000. The inference was that ho had been squared by £1000. Mr. Massey said he had been asked by Mr. Payne in tho House to repeat tho conversation he had had with him, and ho had done so; part of that conversation was tho reading of tho letter that he had read to Mr. Payne. Mr. Massey Not . Against Inquiry. Complying with a suggestion, Mr. Massey read" the Hansard report of his speech in" tho afternoon. In the passage reporting Mr. Massey's question addressed to Mr. Payne, as to whether ho had read the letter to him, Mr. Payne's reply was reported, "No, you did not." Mr. Massey declared that.be would not oppose ,an inquiry into the., matter. Mr. Payne's Version of the Interviews. Mr. Payno said ho would like to emphasise the fact that Mr. Dickson had said that no mention was made of a bribo at tho meeting in his officeat Auckland. Opposition Members: "No mention of money?"" ' ..'""' ~..;... Mr. Payno: " Nothing about a briba or money, or anything else appertaining to it." Mr. Massey had distinctly stated that this matter of a bribe and money in connection with it was mentioned. Mr. Payno went on to state that prior to the first meeting Mr. Dickson cam© to him, and said, " Here, I am looking for you. I want to tako you along to see Mr. Massey." (Government members: "Oh.") Mr* Payne said ho told Mr. Maesey that, owing to the reports that _ tho Dominion newspaper had published with regard to tho tramway striko, it had mado his position a most serious one in the eyes of the workers as a Labour member. Ho must see the heads of his committees before he gave his further word in regard to his vote. Prior to the second meeting in Wellington Mr. Dickson came to him and asked him when ho could go to see Mr. Massev. At tho meeting Mr. Massey and Mr. Dickson both spoke to him of the iniquity of breaking pledges. Mr. Massey said that a petition had been started in Auckland with the object of asking Mr. Payne to resign, and that ho (Mr. Massey) had stopped it. Mr. Massey : hat is so. Mr. Payne said he had told Mr. Massev that ho had been offered £500 or £1000 to vote with the Ward Government. At that time Mr. Massey did not ask who had made tho offer. Later, when Mr. Dickson met him in the Grand Hotel and asked him who had made the offer, he told him in confidence it was "Charlie McMasters." Mr. Payne contended that Mr. Dickson and his chief were at variance in regard to the facts as to what had taken place at the meetings which had been described. An Incident in Mr. Massey's Room. Mr. Massey stated that another witness not previously mentioned was present when he read the letter to Mr. This was Mr. Guthrie, who saw him produce the letter, though he withdrew before it was read. Mr. Payne: Yes. the blue letter of i Charlie MeMasters'.' Mr. Massev: Oh, no, that was another letter. * ' Mr. D. 11. Guthrie (Oroua) said he entered Mr. Massey's office, and found the Leader of the Opposition there with Mr. i Payno. In his presence Mr. Massey pro : duced a letter, tore it open, and then asked him to withdraw. Mr. Guthrie said ho certainly saw a letter produced 1 by Mr. Massey, and removed from its envelope.

Mr. E. P. Lee (Oamaru) said he would support the motion.

A Charge and a Denial. Mr. G. W. Russell (Avon) asserted that the matter had been introduced for the purpose of crushing an incipient Labour party. Mr. Massey: I deny that. I assisted Mr. Payne, and three Labour members, to get into this House. Mr. J. H. Bradney (Auckland West) said ho would not have spoken had there not been a reflection cast upon the Leader of tho Opposition by the member for Avon. He was one of Mr. Payne's constituents, and was in a largo measure responsible uoaq -jou it pen •u.ui'}aj stq joj for the pressure brought to bear by tho Reform party., and especially by himself, his parly and a third gentleman, Mr. Payne would' not be sitting in the House. He" added that in his opinion Mr. Massey had acted in a fair and equitable manner. Mr. Atmore Urges a Division. Mr. H. Atmore (Nelson) said ho wished as a now member to express his disgust at tho waste of time that had taken place. The discussion had degenerated into an ignominious party wrangle. The facts of the case were plain, and it was simply a matter of putting tho. question to tho vote. The country wished to see who was to bo entrusted with the reins of government. (Hear, hear.) He did not think the House was justified in wasting time when so important a question was awaiting settlement.'. .

■ Mr. J. H. Escott (Pahiatua) spoke in a similar strain, Mr. D. Buick (Palmerston North) denied tho statement made by Mr. Millar that tho Reform party had been ready for three days to raise this question. As a matter of fact, the Reform party on tho previous day were bursting 'to take a division. Mr. J. A. Young (Waikato) protested against the subordination of the true interests of the country by an acrimonious debate upon a question which the Houso was agreed should bo referred to a tribunal for full inquiry. Mr. H. G. Ell (Christchurch South) said it mu6t bo clear to every member that the "wrong," as it was described by Mr. Dickson, would never have come before tho House had the member for Grey Lynn not decided to alter his attitude in relation to the parties.

The Hon. T. Mackenzie hoped that the writer of the letter would be brought to book for it. A full and thorough investigation should be made into these charges. Opposition hear, hears.) The member for Parnell, with his simulated concern for the honour of the House, would have done well to bring the matter up before Mr. Payne declared what position he intended to take in the pending division. Mr. 11. 11. Rhodes (Ellesmere) said that when the motion before the- House was first proposed, he (Mr. Rhodes) said to the Leader of the Opposition, " You will not oppose this motion?" and Mr. Masses' indicated that he would not. The Reform party had spontaneously decided to support the proposal to hold an inquiry. (Opposition hear, hears.) Several other members carried on the debate. Letter Declared a Breach of Privilege. Mr. Payne rose to reply at 11.15 p.m. He acknowledged his appreciation of the sympathy expressed by members for him. The motion declaring the letter a breach of privilege was carried on the voices. A Committee Appointed. The Prime Minister then moved the appointment Of a Committee of Privilege " to take into full consideration the, writing and the- publishing of the letter, and the truth or otherwise of the charges contained in, it/' the committee to bo Messrs.

Allen, Fraser, Hanan, Nosworthy, Lee, Russell, Reed, Robertson, G. M. Thomson, Veitch, and the Hon. J. A. Millar; the committee to report within three days. Mr. Massey said he had very little fault to find with the committee. Only one of its members had shown any personal antagonism towards himself. He intended to take lull responsibility for what had taken place. He intended to face the music. If he had made a slip he would take his punishment, either before the committee or, if it became necessary, for him to hand in his resignation and face his constituents, ho would do so. He intended to get witnesses from Auckland to substantiate what was in the letter. He had not, brought this matter up by way of a charge, but because he had been asked to repeat a conversation between himself and the member lor Grey Lynn. The extract which he quoted was part of that conversation. Probably he should not have quoted the extract. He did it without thinking, and took the responsibility for what he had done. The motion was carried on the voices. Mr. Brown's Question of Privilege. A further question of privilege was raised by Mr. J. V. Brown, on the ground that a charge had been made against him by . a statement by Mr. Massey that ho had been instrumental in "squaring" Mr. Payno at Napier. Ho considered that he had been grossly slandered, and he asked that inquiry should also bo made regarding the charges against him. The Speaker said the House should follow the precedent of an inquiry in 1872, and refer the matter to a committee to report whether the speech of the Leader of the Opposition was a breach of privilege, and if so, to report its opinion to the House. The motion was carried, and the same committeo was appointed to conduct the inquiry. Another Breach of Privilege. Mr. F. M. E. Fisher then moved: "That the statement made this day by Mr. John Payne, member for Grey Lynn, to the effect that one McMaster, of Auckland, had offered him a sum of money if he (the member for Grey Lynn) would vote in a certain way on a want of confidence motion, is a breach of the privileges of this House." Mr. Fisher said that if the statement was true the man who made the offer of money should be punished. This motion was also carried.