POSITION OF POLITICAL PARTIES.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXIV, Issue 10589, 2 November 1897, Page 6

POSITION OF POLITICAL PARTIES.

THE GROWING. DESIRE P(SR A

CHANGS, .v

SIR ROBERT STOUT'S VIEW'S.

REVOLT OF.THE

THE PREMIER AND WOMEN'S

Possibilities OF the future.

[by telegraph.—special correspondent.] | ' ' 1 Wellington, Monday. Although it is sometimes the fashion to

speak of Sir Robert Stout as » played-out political force, whose close and active connection with the extreme section of social reformers, such as the Prohibitionists, for example, ha« made it impossible for him to ever again assume the leadership _of a powerful and 'solid party, there are not wanting shrewd and experienced observers, who believe that Sir Robert will in the near future be found occupying a position of prominence and responsibility in the administration of the affairs of the country.' In the process of evolution and disintegration which is going on in the ranks of the Ministerialists, nothing is more certain than that he will bo able to attract to him the malcontents who, wearied.of political servitude under so, hard a taskmaster as the present Premier, and sick unto death of the methods of government as practised by the Seddon Ministry are falling away from their allegiance to the existing administration. A change of Ministry may not occur this session,'or even next session, although in politics one must not forget that it is the unexpected that ofteneSt happens; but it may •be predicted, I think, without the slightest hesitation that) when that change does come, and th* present set of Ministers' have to give way to new men, not the least' distinguished or important member of the new Cabinet will be Sir Robert Stout. ' The views of such a man are, therefore, of great interest at the present juncture, and the following are the notes of a talk which I had with him today. 1 have endeavoured to set them forth as clearly and concisely as possible. " 1 The conversation began with a remark by myself about tbo singularity and significance of the general political position at the present time. "There is no doubt," said Sir Robert, " that the Government have had returned as Liberals men of independence, and they are chafing very ranch under that fact. Still there are sufficient left in the party who think that party loyalty and loyalty to principle are the same thing, and are therefore content to do anything they are told by the Premier; but the most distressing thing of all seems to be the way in which the. Premier underrates the intelligence. of the House." " Do you think that the general intelligence of the House has improved 1" i' " I think," was the answer, "that the intelligence of the House as a whole has increased since 1896, although there are still a , great many members who don't understand constitutional methods." "Can you give me an illustration of the way in which, as you say, the Premier is underrating the intelligence of the House?" " Well, take the women's franchise, for example. -The charge has been made against Mr. Seddon that he was not favourable to the women's franchise boing given, and that he was inclined to block the .Electoral Bill after it passed the Legislative Council. That charge has been madeagainst him by Mr. William Hutchison, and concurred in apparently by Mr. Saundors." " But," I said, "Air. Seddon has denied it." "Yes," replied Sir Robert, "that is so; but/ he gives as evidence that no .such thing was in his mind the fact that when Mr. Stowe presented to him th« Electoral Bill for recommendation to the Governor, he signed it without raising any question before Mr. Stowe. But yhat answer is that! To put that forward is a serious argument is like talking to chilWen. Thore is no evidence that the objeclon raised by Mr. Seddon, and which Mr. Hutchison referred to, may not have been iiiide some days before Mr. Stowe presented ;he Bill to him. Most probably it was, and >et we' have a' letter from Mr. Stowe [ijotod. in the House as if it was i complete answer 'to the charge. Chen there is the charge made against him if being connected with the Anglo Contilental Gold Syndicate, He has treated it ; if members opposite were opposed to Jinistcrs being directors of companies, i'hat is not the point, but whether Ministers bould be directors of companies whose msiness is liable to bring them into relaions with departments of State. No one bjected to Mr. Ward or Mr. McKenzie eing directors of companies, yet Mr. ieddoti argues that because, for example, 1 pas on a company which was empowered to mylandfrom the Government, although as a natter of fact we did not buy any, it was n no different position to the Anglo-Conti-lental. - There, again, ho underrates the ntelligence of the House. ,But the illusrations are legion." : " But" I said, " is there no improvement n the House in that respect? Is Mr. jeddon's power over his party as great as iver?" i ' "No doubt," was the reply, " there is a lecided change for the better. The diference , between this House and t the ast House is this: In the last House he Opposition was weak, and there was )<U'ely any independence at all among the ollowers of the Government, Now there s more' independence and, further, ' the Opposition is largely increased, a fact which inables ampler discussion to take place, and irevents a display of that autocratic dominance that was a disgrace to Parliament in previous years." There are several Labour Bills he never means to pass. . There is the Masters and Apprentices Bill, for instance, [lad he desired. to piss it ib could have become law, but he knew if it passed nearly 5000 persons .of; 20', and under- would have seen thrown out of employment', and a blow would have been'given to some of our lew industries from which they never irould have recovered. ' The Bill is limply 1 introduced to please'some trade inions 'who have demanded the ineasnre. Che wiser , men among the labour party (new the Bill would be injurious to the workers." ' '■ ,i| " But," I ; laid, "the labour party leem to think the, Government are , sinsere, in their professions just as thosa vho are in favour of Government seem to >elieve that there is' nothing in the charges if political corruption which are so often irought against them all." ' "This," was the reply, "is only another >roof, of . how easily and successfully he present Government can-. humbug the leople. Take, for instance, the 'charges of lorruption. If ' men are assisted to - office irer others because they are of the ' right lolitical colour, or if newspapers have idrertisements given to them by the Go■eminent because of their political colour, ir if a magistrate is appointed at a larger alary than'others' as a reward for party ervices, are nob these charges of corrupion ? ' They have been made, and not made ii a vague form, but they have never been nswefed. Look howappointmentsaremade. 'should say three-fourths are made because f the 'political colour of those appointed, nd nub because they are the best men' for he ;■ position. lb. is simply scandalous. Chen look how the money borrowed for the /rown lands is voted. "I These instances are mown. . They cannot be denied.' 1 That is lot a vague charge of corruption." :' ■ 1 " What," I asked, « is the remedy for all his?" ' • "" "ib will be found," he replied, "in the 'rowing intelligence of the • people. They ire beginning ..to' understand politics, and ■he hope lies that as v the . people of the colony know what 'is • being flone and what bunkum is ; being balked to them by Ministers, they will no longer tolerate them. As I have paid, the rremier underrates : the intelligence of the House, and I believe ofthe country, by talking the veriest bathos of bunkum. v; His speech 011 Friday night was an illustration' in point. But " 8 followers 419 afraid to resent it; they are like children who are afraid to go out after dark. The personal predominance of the Premier is going down, and when his supporters can screw up courage to go alone by thDmselves it will no doubt alter the out look' for .; the r colotiy, Just now , appeari bright because ,we have credit balances al the end of each year, and have been able tc pay out of the consolidated fund such largi iumi,for public works.f/But if the slightest strain came upon our,revenue we would bi in • very peculiar position." :, ; V•' '.'"I ' '

;'v Before taking my leave of Sir Robert I happened to mention the Premier's ConstiAmendment Bill. " That Bill," he laid,' "shows a great lack of constructive power. ; There is no principle in the Bill j only a lob of feeble amendments. He adopts the referendum and the Norwegian scheme of the two Houses meeting in convention, and wants' to 'get rid 'of life members so that he may get greater power in . making appointment?/• If we are to have a second Chamber at all—and ,I use the word 'if' because a second chamber is not a necessity in';my opinion—it "should be made effective, and that can only be • done by having members - elected - from large / districts, nnd i perhaps using a proportional representation system like Hare's or, that adopted in Tasmania for Hobart and Launceston." '' • •' 1 v . "