NEW ZEALAND RAILWAYS.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXVIII, Issue 8705, 23 October 1891, Page 6

NEW ZEALAND RAILWAYS.

•THE PROPOSAL TO SELL THEM.

DISCUSSION AT THE CHAMBER 0? COMMERCE.

The proposal that the New Zealand Government railways should be sold to an English syndicate was discussed at yesterday afternoon's meeting of the Auckland Chamber of Commerce.

The Chairman (Mr. Adam Porter) said members of the .Chamber would be aware that Mr. J. H. Witheford was taking a great interest in a proposal to introduce a large amount of capital into the country by selling the railways. Mr. Witheford had sent a circular to "the local bodies asking for an expression of their opinions on the question, and was now prepared to lay his views before the Chamber.

Mr* A. H. Nathan said he would like to ask whom Mr. Witheford represented, whether himself, a syndicate, or any body of capitalists in New South Wales or England ? Mr. Witheford said he represented a body of capitalists in London, who were represented in Syduey by another gentleman a lew months ago. Had that gentleman received any encouragement from tho New Zealand Government, he would have had a conference with them in Wellington, but as he did not, and as he had to go home, he had asked him (Mr. Witheford) to ascertain the feeling of the people of New Zealand towards the project 01 selling the railways.

Mr. S. Vaile said he did not think the explanation satisfactory. Before they went into so great a question of public policy, they had a right to know who they were dealing with, who formed this syndicate.

The Chairman said that all Mr. Witheford wished to know was, the feeling of the people on the point. If he found that the majority were against it, he would probably proceed no further. It was therefore only for the Chamber to express its opinion upon the advisability or otherwise of selling the railways to any syndicate. . Mr. Nathan asked if Mr. Witheford had any communication- with the Government relative to the proposal. Mr. Witheford said that _ all he had intended to do . was to ascertain in a quiet way the feeling of the people by asking for an expression of opinion from the various local bodies. It was well known that the railways were now being worked at a loss which the country could not stand, and the question arose as to whether they could be better managed, or whether it would be best to sell them. He had communicated with the Premier on the subject, and had received a most courteous reply—not the curt discourteous reply which had been published in the newspapers—but still a reply to the effect that _■ the Government did not contemplate selling the. railways. When he returned here he was asked why he did not go on with the proposal, and he replied that the people did not want to sell the railways. He was then told by influential men that the majority would be agreeable to their being sold if anyone would buy, and as a powerful financial organisation was ready to purchase, he had taken steps to obtain the opinions of the local bodies. If such a company took over the railways they would develope the resources of the colony, and soon make it the fashionable resort of the world. He believed that those who had left the colony would return to it, and that a period of great prosperity would set in. There was at present 110 money in the place, 110 sale for property, but he believed that if some plan could bo devised by which New Zealand would be allowed another start, prosperity would not only quickly appear, hut would permanently continue. He read the following extracts from his circular to show the nature of his proposal—" That 000,000 shall be the amount provided. That the railways, station buildings, lands, and rolling stock shall be sold for £15,000,000. and the purchasers allowed, say. three and a-ha If to four years within which to spend £5,000,000 on lines to be hereafter agreed upon, with the proviso that for ten years tho 'purchasers should have the option of constructing all _ lines of railway proposed by Government in preference to any other person, to offer sufficient inducement to the company to really study the wants of the country, and not to put such lines in a position of competition too early. This will only be fair. After that they must take their chance with other people. . . . All will agree that £15,000,000 wiped off the public debt would be a matter for public rejoicing, while the country would still retain the use of its railways with increased facilities. It is needless to point out that the new works would be calculated to stimulate the progress of the colony, and attract wealth and population into the country. There is not the slightest doubt but that the loss of any railway revenue would be more than counterbalanced by increased returns from all other sources. The aim and object of the company; will doubtless be to stimulate emigration to New Zealand, in order to render their lines productive, and nothing would be more conducive to th 6' advancement of the colony than ,to have . the lands settled upon and rendered productive." Captain .Daldy said it appeared to him that they were discussing a very abstract question. _ To sell the railways might be attended with advantages as well as disadvantages, hut while the former were only possibilities, some of the latter were apparent. Supposing they were sold for £15,000,000, what was goin" to be done with the money? Then, again, the railways had been practically given its security for the colony's present indebtedness, and to sell them would be a breach of faith, in fact, actual repudiation. It had been said that the £15,000,000 might be used towards paying off some of the country's debt,' but he would ask if they had considered what loss would attend the operations of the colony in endeavouring to buy up its own bonds in the London market ? Then the future- railways of the colony would also bo given over to the syndicate. In his opinion, the monopoly of a private company would be far worse than that of the Government. If they wanted an example in a small way of the difficulties which arose when railways were in company's hands, they had only to look at the railway from Canterbury to the West Coast, and remember how many alterations had been made in the agreement connected therewith.

Mr. W. Crovvtjikr counselled delay in dealing with so important a matter, pointing out that it was one which demanded the most searching inquiry, and the most careful consideration. He was of opinion that when a syndicate came before them with sufficient temptations to induce them to sell the railways, it would be time enough to consider the proposal. No doubt the railways were a great convenience, and had greatlv assisted the development of the country, and although they might be more judiciously managed, the question of selling them' was quite a different matter. He honestly believed that if the affairs of the colony were properly attended to, it could keep its railways and pay its debt too.

Mr. S. Vaile said the time had not arrived for the Chamber to deal with so serious a proposal, since there was really nothing'definite in Mr. Witheford's circular. If he had come forward and said, " Here are a certain number of gentlemen prepared to deal with ■you for your railways," there would be something for the Chamber to consider ; but there was no such liroposition before it. One part of the circular stated that the interests of the people of New Zealand would be conserved by " Parliamentary control; of the tariff," and he asked if any capitalist would agree to purchase the railways on such absurd terms. There was no bona fide proposal before the Chamber, and therefore, the time had not come to discuss the proposal. Mr. A. H. Nathan said that at the present time New Zealand was supposed to be in a very bad way, and a gentleman now came forward and said, " You are very hard up, and if you want to sell your railways I can get men to buy them at bo much." But if they wanted to sell their railways why should they not do so in a more business like way, why should they not announce to the world that they were to be sold and ask for the highest bid for the monopoly. Mr. J. P. King said he would uphold in every way the proposal to sell the railways, because the result would be that New Zealand would at once rise from its present miserable state of depression. People were being driven away by the heavy burdens that had to be borne, and the selling of the railways would afford a relief which would ensure a returning influx and renewed prosperity. Mr. P. Oliphant considered the weakness of Mr. Witheford's proposal was its indefiniteness. He did not agree with Mr. Vaile in one respect, because he thought if the railways were sold Government control of the tariff would be a very necessary precaution. He moved, " That the Chamber does not express an opinion on the propriety of selling the Government railways, but will be prepared to consider the matter as soon as an accredited agent of the purchasers can meet us and submit the terms upon whijh they will purchase." 'I he motion was seconded by Mr. King. Mr. Vaile said, in answer to Mr. Oliphant, that what he had. stated was that no syndicate would purchase the railways if the tariff was to be subject to Parliamentary control. Many attempts had been made, and it had been found utterly impossible to bring railway tariffs under such control. Mr. A. Bull also advised delay, so that the opinion of the people might be ascertained. His own opinion was that they should not give up their heritage, and lie hoped never to sec the railways sold. Mr. E. Withy thought the Chamber should at once let it be known that it did not approve of selling the railways at all. I At home ho had lived ia a place over-ridden |

by one railway company, and from his experiences there 'he was entirely opposed to handing over any portion of New Zealand's railways to a syndicate. It would, he was convinced, be a most suicidal policy. Ho proposed as an amendment "That this Chamber is not prepared to consider any proposal to sell the New Zealand railways." Mr. A. Bell seconded the amendment. . The Chairman said he had no hesitation in giving it as his opinion that it would be suicidal to sell an inch of the railways. To hand them over to a company would inevitably result -in a worse state of things than at present, because a company would not run them on philanthropic lines, but would simply aim at getting big interest. He did not think New Zealand was in so bad a state as some people said ; he did not know of any country on earth that had better prospects. With reference to placing the tariff under Parliamentary control, he stated that 8000 Bills had been introduced into the British Parliament with that object, and most of them had been absolute failures. Supposing they did get £15,000,000 for the railways, what would they do with the money? Pay off some of the debt, it was sarid ; but when it became known that the colony had £15,000,000 to spend the bonds would jump from their present price of 104 or 106 to 115 in five minutes. Another thing was that it would be dangerous to give so much money to the present Government,,or to any other Government. If the Government had that money at their disDosal the colony, bad as it now was, would be very much worse off when it was spent. Mr. Witheford asked that the Chamber's decision should be postponed, if only as a matter of courtesy to him. He had not been prepared to go into the matter, as he was waiting replies from the local bodies and a letter from England. He had had no intention of bringing the matter forward at that meeting, but had only attended at an express invitation, and on an assurance that no vote would be taken. The Chairman endorsed Mr. Witheford's statements, and suggested that further consideration of the question should be held over till the next quarterly meeting of the Chamber. This course was agreed to, the motion and amendment being withdrawn to enable the chairman to move hi that direction. A vote of thanks to Mr. Witheford closed the meeting.