THE GREAT BARRIER MURDER.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXIII, Issue 7789, 8 November 1886, Page 3

THE GREAT BARRIER MURDER.

CROSS-EXAMINATION OF GRACE CLEARY.

The trial of John Caffrey and Henry Albert Penn for the wilful murder of Robert Taylor at Tryphena harbour, Great Barrier, was resumed on Saturday before Mr. H. G. Seth Smith, R.M.

Counsel appeared as before, Mr. Hudson Williamson for the Crown, Mr. Napier for Ponn, and Mr. Jaokson Palmer for Caffrey. The gathering of spectators both outside and within the Court was muoh smaller than on the previous day, as it had become known that only a few would be admitted.

Grace Cleary was then recalled, and in reply to Mr. Williamson deposed Some days after we got to sea Caffrey painted the ship, as I said yesterday, and he told me he bought the paint at a shop in Queen-street. I do not know when he bought it or when it came on board. He told me that in the cabin in the night I went on board. Ho said he would paint the top sides of the cutter black. These were before white.

The witness was then cross examined by Mr. Napier : When what I stated was said in the cabin about the flag and old Tusky, Penn was not in the cabin. He was forward. Barry . remained on deck during the whole of the time of that conversation in the oabin. It was about an hour before they commenced to heave the anchor. That was the time they were drinking downstairs. Penn was sober. He was doing something to the halyards, preparing the vessel to start away that night. Penn had a drink of rum, but not While the conversation was going on. When Penn went down to sleep it was Caffrey's Watch. Harry did not go down during his own watch. When Caffrey first saw the boat which he thought was the police boat, Penn was on deck, and Caffrey was just coming out of the cabin. They Were on Rangitoto then. Penn was forward. I was up on the deck between the oabin and the stern. Caffrey made the remark about the police boat to me immediately he came out of the oabin. When we arrived at Tryphena Caffrey said they would have the sails loose, that they might get away when they had done the murder. Penn was on deck when Caffrey said that. Caffrey was standing in the oabin, and said that to me. Caffrey was sober then. After the sails were dropped, and Caffrey had a conversation about the whole matter, about going and getting the girls, Penn was fixing the anchors. When Caffrey said he would go and get the girls, and if not, he would shoot the father for revenge, Penn did not hear it. Caffrey had three glasses of brandy, but Penn had nothing at that time. He did not take any after they arrived at Tryphena, Caffrey and Penn had ordinary sheath-knives and a belt. I saw Penn's belt and sheath. He had a new knife and sheath, but the belt was an old one. I did think it strange about Caffrey having a new knife. These were the ordinary sailors' knives. I have seen other sailors with similar sheaths. Before they went on shore I heard a conversation be* tween Caffrey and Penn. Penn said to Caffrey he would go on shore and get a couple of pounds of butter, and Caffrey said in the meantime he would go and get the girls. Penn said he would go and help to get the girls, but he would not do any harm to anybody. It was in reference to their going that this conversation took place. I toM Penn, when he came down below, what Caffrey had told me about what he would do to the old man. Penn said he would go on shore and tell Mr. Taylor to get his girls out of the way quickly, as Caffrey was corning. I again spoke to Penn before they went into the dingy. He then said be would not mind helping with the girls, but ho should do no shooting. It was on the first trip that the conversation I had with Caffrey about having a grievanoe against Taylor took plaoe. Penn was down in the cabin. When I said that Harry knew what they were going to do, it was after they came on board at the second trip. I mean that Harry knew that they were going to get the girls. That was all he knew. Penn was treated very well on board, but was under Caffrey's control. She was not afraid of Caffrey. When they came on board I examined Penn's clothes carefully, and if there had been any blood on them I should have seen it. There was none, and there was none on his hands. In the afternoon of the day they left Auckland I was on board, when someone called Penn ashore. I did not hear what Mr. Henderson said to Penn, but I heard Penn say to Caffrey that Mr. Henderson had told him he was on no account to take the boat aways I was in company with Penn in Australia, I was with him when he was taken by the constable. He saw the constable coming, and I told him there was a mounted man. I told him to go and give himself up. He said he would do as I told him. We went out and met the constable. The oonßtabie asked him where he was going. He said to Bris bane to give himself up. The constable then asked him his name, and he told him Harry Penn, and he said he was in that murder that was done in New Zealand. He said it was the murder that Jack Caffrey Was in. The constable said he would have to arrett him.

Mr. Napier asked if F«nn did not use the words, ,*» implicated in the murder." Mr. Williamson said he objected to the way in whioh Mr. Napier put the question, It was not only suggesting the motive of an answer, bat even of a word. The Resident Magistrate said it was not right to suggest an answer. Mr. Napier asked if he could not ask if certain words were not used. He was orossexamining. The Resident Magistrate said answers should not be suggested to a witness. Mr. Williamson said the counsel in crossexamination could not suggest words. Mr. Napier said he was following the regular rule. The Resident Magistrate said the rule was quite clear about not allowing words to be put whioh the witness should use. Witness continued : The constable asked for my name, and Panu told it him. Cross-examined by Mr. Palmer: It was about eleven o'clock on Thursday night when we left Queeo>atreet for the Barrier for the last time. I knew we were going to the Barrier that night. I had a conversation With Penn about going to the Barrier. Penn said they were just going down to the Barrier. 1 asked him where we w«re going, and he said to Blind Bay. When Penn saw the man, and went ashore in the boat, it was about three o'clock in the afternoon. Penn told Caffrey he was not to take the boat out. It was between half-past seven and eight o'clock. I knew at that time that the boat was not to leave the harbour. Caffrey, told me on Monday they were going to Blind Bay. He told me again on Wednesday that they Were going to Blind Bay. . I did not see him much on Thursday, and he did not then say they were going to Blind Bay. I knew they were going, because he told me on Monday. 1 did not know that the boat was to be stopped until we got to Rangitoto. I knew on Thursday that Caffrey was told not to take the boat out. When they had the conversation in the cabin Penn was on deck all the time. He was loosening the staysail. He did come down into the cabin once and had a drink, and went straight up again. They were not talking then. He had only one drink that night, and that has rum. He wad not drink when he went on board with me. When I heard Caffrey talk about killing old Tuskey I did not say anything, I just listened. Although 1 heard that talk about killing to be done I was willing to go down to the Barrier. It was agreed to tie Taylor up when they got to the Barrier. Caffrey said if they could not get the girls they would shoot Taylor. Penn was up on deck when Ctffrey was loading the revolvers. Harry was on deok at all the conversations, and did not hear anything. Harry did not fire off any revolver when they were passing the Watohman. Caffrey fired over the bulwarks without taking aim. When we came to " anchor at the Barrier we were not far from the other cutter. They would have heard from the other cutter if we had called out. Caffrey had the three revolvers, Penn had none. I told Penn to warn Taylor. I did not wish Taylor to be hurt, and I would have warned him if Icould. I could not get ashore, or I would nave warned him. 1 asked Caffrey to let me go ashore. I did not call out to the other cutter. The flag was kept in Jack's bunk. The table on which he placed the revolver was close to his bunk, and he could reach it with his hand, They would have to come down two stairs to get into the cabin. .1 saw no one come into the. cabin, but when I looked round the revolver was on the table. I am very fond of Caffrey (srieeringly). I mean I hate Caffrey. He quarrelled with me two or i three times. 1 hate him because of what he 1 used to say to me. I said once when we first

went away that if I could help it he would never be hung, but afterwards I said the very opposite. I said it would not be my fault if he was not caught, I did not say it would not be my fault if he was not hung. I did not use any expression like that. When we were sailing out of the bay at Tryphena, I had the wheel while they were putting up the staysail. The boat was under weigh at the time the staysail was being put up. When it was up Caffrey took the wheel. Caffrey kept to the wheel until they were out of the harbour. Be never left it. After the staysail was up I stayed on deok. I did not go into the cabin until we were out of the bay. We had not passed the Tairua when the black flag was hoisted. We had all sail set then. I had the wheel when the black flag was hoisted and until after all the sails were set. I had been down to the cabin to put the revolver there, Caffrey gave it to me to put it in the cabin. It was before the boat got under weigh that I took the revolver down. It was between eleven and twelve at night that we passed the Watchman Island. I saw Caffrey cutting the lanyards with his knife. He took the sheath knife on shore to out the cords to bind Mr. Taylor. My age is nineteen, I do not do anything now. I have no occupation. The witness' mother here came forward to interrupt the witness, but was immediately ordered to her Beat. Witness t I have been on the town. I was that from January until May. Before that I was at service at Mr. Eagleton's. I have been in the Lock Hospital. I have been living with Perm since the 27th of May. Barry said he fired one shot when he was ashore. Witness was then re-examined by Mr, Williamson, and deposed : When we were on the rocks at R&ngitoto and Caffrey saw the boat he said, "Jesus Christ, Harry, here's the police boat 1" He then went down and loaded the revolvers. He afterwards came on deok again. The revolvers were on the cabin table. It was when he came up again that he said, "If they come on board they will not go off alive." Harry could not have heard that. He looked at the boat through the glasses. Mr. Palmer here asked if Caffrey might have a pencil and some paper, which were accordingly supplied to him. Witness : After Harry had looked at the boat through the glasses he said he thought it was the police boat. It was after that that Caffrey made the remark about the men not going off alive. I saw Caffrey and Penn put on the sheath knives on the morning they were going ashore. Harry knew before they left Auckland when he was on board the boat that they were going to get the girls. The boat was ashore then, and they had to wait for the tide before they could get out. At the time of the arrest the constable was in private clothes, not in uniform. I knew he was a policeman by the way he was dressed. I knew by his hat; it was a round hat. When Caffrey was told of Mr. Henderson's message he said he would let Mr. Henderson see that he was always determined to have the cutter. Harry did not say anything to that when he repeated the message on board the cutter, Caffrey said he should take the cutter. I left them just then, and did not know what Harry said. When I said I hated Caffrey, my feelings would not lead me to tell an untruth against him. What I have told you is practically true. Mr. Palmer thought Mr. Williamson was leading the witness. Mr. Williamson said he was only asking for an answer, which might be one way or the other. Witness : What I have said is true. This concluded the. witness' evidence, and the depositions were then read over to her, both prisoners listening closely. During the reading, Mr. Williamson asked that they might be read through and taken very dearly as a oouple of lives might be depending upon it. SURETIES FOR APPEARANCE AT SUPREME COURT. Mr. Williamson then applied that the witness should be ordered to find substantial sureties that she should appear and give evidence at the next sittings of the Supreme Court. He had reason to believe that it was not her intention to stay in Auckland. She had told him so, and also said the same to Mr. Reston, the gaoler, who was present. Unless they could be satisfactorily assured that she would appear he thought he was I justified in pressing his application. Mr. Napier objected to the application on behalf of the girl. Notice should have been given if suoh an application was to be made that opportunity might be given her of rebutting any statements made with regard to her intending to go away. It would be exceedingly uojast to imprison the girl again until the next session of the Supreme Court. There was no ground, he believed, for the supposition that she was going to leave the colony. He had asked Miss Davey to take the girl, who had not; expressed any unwillingness to go with her. She wished to give up her former habits, and if possible obtain a situation which would enable her to gain an honourable livelihood. She had given her evidence dearly and truthfully, and he urged that it would be unjust to inflict upon her what would practically be a further term of imprisonment. She had friends who would assist her, and he behoved her old intractable spirit was broken, and that she was determined to lead a respectable life. She was not willing to go with her mother, because she did not think that would conduce to her improvement. Mr. Williamson said it was only with reluctance that he made the application, but he felt bound to do so. The mother and Miss Davey would both inform the court that they had endeavoured to get her under their control, and she positively refused it. She was apparently of a disposition which would not brook any restraint, and they had no hold upon her. By that case she had been exalted into something like a semi-heroine, and if she were left at liberty all sorts of people would surround her, and goodness knows what would become of her. The girl was then re-called, and in answer to Mr. Napier said she had told Mr. Williamson that she did not intend to remain in Auckland after the sittings of the Supreme Court were over. Mr. Penn, Harry's father, had offered to keep her until after the trial was over. She wished to obtain honourable work, and did not intend to go back to her old life. Mr. Palmer said he had not cross-examined fully, as he preferred to leave some questions to the Supreme Court. It therefore would be a great prejudice to his olient if she did not appear. He did not agree with Mr. 'Napier that her evidence had been clear and truthful. I The Resident Magistrate said the witness must find one surety in the sum of £100. Mr. Penn was then sent for, and expressed his willingness to sign the necessary bond, Mr. Williamson said he would be satisfied with that. The case was then adjourned until ten o'clock on Wednesday morning. CAFFREY AND THE CUTTER. In the evidence of the girl Cleary, she stated that Mr. Henderson, one of the owners of the cutter,' told Penn to inform Caffrey that on no account was he to take the Sovereign of the Seas another trip without first seeing him (Mr. Henderson). The explanation of this order is that Caffrey was behindhand With his settlements for freight, and it was desired that a settlement should be arrived at before Caffrey again went away; and, further, Mr. Henderson felt that there was something wrong with Caffrey, as hitherto he had been very prompt and correct in all his dealings. This has an important bearing on the case. ■ .