ARCHBISHOP CROKE INTERVIEWED.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XVIII, Issue 6201, 1 October 1881, Page 7

ARCHBISHOP CROKE INTERVIEWED.

l The New York Herald of the Ist of August devotes several columns to a account of Archbishop Croke by a correspondent who interviewed him at Tipperary. We give ; some extracts :— Imagine a tall, erect and perfectly proportioned stately figure, clad in a Catholic Archbishop's robes, a face handsome, fresh, frank, determined and genial, and you have the outlines of a picture for Dr. Thomas W. Croke, the famous Archbishop of Cashel, a man for many years endeared to the people not only of his own diocese, but of all Ireland, because his love of country followed closely after his love of the Almighty, and because he was never afraid to brave his superiors and his government for the benefit of those who looked up to him for advice. Many have wondered how Parnell—cold, methodical, unmagnetie ; alike ignorant of and untouched by the poetry, the battles, the heroes and adventures by flood and field which fill the pages of Irish history and appeal so strongly to Irish imagination—could ever have found so warm a place in the hearts of his countrymen. The man whom all Ireland would have selected for a leader is their favourite Archbishop. fitted by nature and education to direct the people, to control their passions while arousing them to energy and action, and to appeal to their noblest feelings. When I arrived in the south of Ireland a few weeks ago I found his name on every tongue ; all his movements were topics of public interest. At Tipperary, when going to a great public demonstration, I followed in his track and found the roadways arched at intervals for miles with floral emblems of devotion to him, the trees hung with mottoes of -welcome, and flowers strewn along his path, which was lined by thousands of cheering people. Wherever I went nothing could exceed. ;his, popularity; no character in romance was ever the hero of more incidents creditab'e alike to head and heart. Spurred by curiosity I ventured to visit Thurles, the seat of the Archbishops of Cashel, a Sunday or two since, and finding a crowd making its" way to " The Palace," as the residences of the Bishops of Ireland are somewhat fancifully called, I followed jn its wake and soon found myself on a velvety lawn before a house which, if not actually a palace, is a large, beautiful and exceedingly comfortable mansion. I found the Archbishop addressing the people, who turned out to be a deputation from Waterford, and they had been presenting him with an address which testified'to their devotion to him and to their approval of his recent actions. After they had gone His Grace greeted me cordially and invited me into the house, the interior of which offered numerous evidences of the tastes, the travels and the popularity of its occupant. It was replete with every comfort, the tables covered with books and the walls with rare pictures. The numerous illuminated addresses from town corporations and societies are an interesting feature of the dining-room, and curiosities characteristic of Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, and the Continent are in every room. Perhaps the importation most hi silly valued in the palace at Thurles is a restless, scared looking little dog from the Fiji Islands, which accompanies the Archbishop wherever he goes, will take his dinner from no other hand, and goes frequently to church where he is as qniet as a monk.

From this time I had several opportunities of conversing with His Lordship, and found him a remarkably entertaining and fascinating talker, with original ideas, and [ easy, graceful ways of expressing them. I He lias travelled more than most men, seen many countries and many great men. Combining the experience gained by.education and many years' residence in one ot the oldest civilizations — Italy — with several years' life in one of the newest—New Zealand—his mind is naturally broad, liberal and unbiassed. He is fond of the impressive ceremonial displays in the conduct of the service of his Church, and I could almost believe I was in some old Romish or Parisian church at eventide when I wandered into the aisles of the really magnificent Thurles Cathedral, saw the kneeling multitude by the dim lights around the far-off altar, heard the low chanting words of the priest and then the slow sweet music of the organ. Yet the Archbishop is awake to every New World idea, is progressive, and even democratic. He has in his travels been a close observer. He likes to talk over his experiences in various parts of the world. His memory for places is remarkable, and even to tlie details of streets and names of minor people he is never at a loss. He remembers with pleasure his visit to the United States, and particularly to New York and San Francisco, and has many stories, serious and amusing, illustrative of American character and of the unbounded hospitality he met with there. The attitude of Archbishop Croke has during the progress of the land agitation been noteworthy and creditable alike to his principles and good sense, though to be sure he has not escaped calumny. Appearing first as a firm defender of Parnell and the movement he leads, braving the admonishing voice of the Head of the Church, ho has in some degree been forced to appear in the lists against the dictator, by advising the acceptance of the Land Bill as an instalment oE justice, though Parnell has openly stamped upon it the mark of his disapproval. That His Lordship is not at all sanguine as regards the effect of the Land Bill will be seen in his conversation below, but it was necessary six weeks ago to calm the people who were becoming riotous and exasperated. In the course of his conversation with me Dr. Croke expressed himself frankly as regards the situation in Ireland, and I have made note of some of his more important and interesting utterances, which arc here given : — Correspondent : Do you think, My Lord, that the Gladstone Land Bill will settle the agrarian question in Ireland? Archbishop Croke : There is not the least likelihood that it will. Rents under the new measure will, I fear, be ever so much too high, and the landlords in many instances cannot afford to lower them, while in other" cases they will not consent to do so. Correspondent : Is not the Land Commission to settle disputes a good idea? Archbishop Croke : The commission will at best bo a very moderate affair and no striking efleet will be produced by it in this matter. Correspondent: What do you think of the general state of the country at the present time ? Archbishop Croke : I think the state of the couutry may be said to be fairly progressive in almost every sense of the word. That is to say, the peODle are better fed, better clad, better lodged, more intelligent, better educated, and I believe more practically and reasonably religious than they have ever been before. But they are more discontented, and if you asked me why I should say the reason was pretty obvious. Hitherto they have been satisfied to live on offal, to be housed like pigs, clad in tatters, and they thought they had hardly a right to anything better. But now they feel their needs and know their rights and are determined accordingly to assert them. Corespondent : Supposing the Land Bill passed would the Land League be likely to be held together for the purpose of agitating for other objects—possibly home rule ? Archbishop Croke : Bill or no bill, I am thoroughly convinced that the Land League will be kept up in some shape or form, and that the question of self-government will never be lost sight of by Irish patriots. Correspondent : Are you of opinion that Ireland will ultimately secure independant self-government. Archbishop Croke: I am decidcdly of opiniou that it will soon become absolutely nccessary to grant some shore, and even a considerable share, of independent government to Ireland. The British Parliment cannot deal satisfactorily with Irish affairs, for many reasons, but notably for three :—First—Because it doesn't understand them. Second— Because it cannot view them dispassionately. Third—Because it has not sufficient time at its disposal to devote to the consideration of them. I may add that the Irish popular party in the British House of Commons can, and I believe will, heighten their difficulties from day to day and ultimately render them insurmountable. Correspondent: Are yon of opinion that independent self-rule for Ireland would weaken her bonds with England, as many believe, or strengthen them ? Archbishop Croke: There can bo no doubt that the bonds would be strengthened. A people discontented and dissatisfied with those who rule over them have a natural tendency to secession, and that tendency will be in proportion to the discontent. Diminish the. grounds of discontent and in so far you strengthen the union. Correspondent: In conceding self-govern-ment to Ireland would you consider the federal form of government the best ? Archbishop Croke: I think such a government as - that of the 1 United States is of all others the simplest and most satisfactory. Hence 1 if all British' dependencies could > be .formed into a confederation, as the Herald has suggested, Ireland being a part of it and holding to the other confederated bodies and to the ParliamentJthe same re-

lationship that California, for instance, holds to the other States and to the Supreme Legislature at Washington, I, for one, would be thoroughly satisfied, and feel that nothing better could be done in this respect for Ireland. But this supposition is, to my mind, practically impossible. The colonies will before long become independent, or confederate among themselves, and we mnst confine ourselves, therefore, to England, Ireland and Scotland alone. Now the question comes, would I be satisfied with a confederation between the three great constituents of the British Empire? And I unhesitatingly answer in the affirmative. Correspondent : Do you think the intense feeling of dislike for England will ever die out in Ireland ?

Archbishop Croke : I do not think this feeling will die out in our time or at any future time unless England alters her attitude altogether as regards this country and treats it as she treats each and every one of her other flourishing dependencies. Correspondent : What has been the effect of the Coercion Act ?

Archbishop Croke : The Coercion Act has done no good to the Government, but it has done good to the popular cause in Ireland. It has marie martyrs. Voila toul. It has fixed the determination of the people to free themselves from rack rents and it has intensified the hereditary hatred of Saxon rule.