AUCKLAND PRESBYTERY.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XVIII, Issue 6097, 2 June 1881, Page 3

AUCKLAND PRESBYTERY.

' The Presbytery met yesterday morning in St. Andrew's Church. The Rev. B. Monro, moderator.—'Che clerk read the minutes of the previous sederunt. Choboh Extension. —The following ministers announced that the collections for thii;]; fi*rpose had been made ;—Rev. Mr. Carries''', '-at. Andrew's; Kev. Mr. Macniool, St. Jarcj;;'s; Rev. T. Nome, Papakura; Rev. J. Mucky, Otahuhu; Rev. Mr. Craig, Waipu.—Tho Kev. Mr. Bruce announced that the collection had been made at Onehunga but not at Mangere. The collection would be made at Mangere next Sabbath.—The Rev. Mr. McCallum (Lake) said that circumstances did not allow the collection to be made just yet. Tauuanga.—The Rev. Mr. Hay tendered his resignation of St. Peter's, Tauranga, on the ground that a certain grant had been Withdrawn, in consequence of which his stipend had been reduced. —A letter was also received from the congregation, in which they expressed deep regret for the loss of Mr. Hay, whose attention to his duties, and. his ability in. Scripture exposition, were spoken of in terms of high encomium. —Resignation accepted. Fees for Pulpit Supply.—A committee was appointed to draw up a scale of fees to ministers, probationers, and lay preachers, giving pulpit supply on Sabbath.—The Rev. Mr. Runcinian was the convener, and he recommended that the scale be the following:—To ministers and probationers according to minimum stipend, three guineas, and a guinea additional for every additional £100 of stipend. The scale for lay preachers to be half the fee for ministers.—The Rev. D. Bruce said that in travelling about the country ho had been much struck with the disproportion of the fee paid to the congregational means of paying. In tome places where there was a very largo stipend paid, only this small sum would be paid.—The Rev. Mr. Macky said there were places where the congregation could not pay even tho rninimum stipend.—Several members suggested that provisiou might be made for travelling expenses, and the fee reduced. —Tho subject was referred back to the committee for further consideration. Bible in Schools. — The Rev. David Bruce thought that some consideration should be given to special instruction to children on tho history and contents of the Bible. The ordinary Sabbath-school was excellent as a means of impressing tho truths oE the .Bible on the minds of children, so. as to influence their future life. There was reason to believe that the children were tx'il as well acquainted with the contents of the Bible as they ought to be. It appeared to him that something more was wanting than tho ordinary Sabbath-school. He did not want to lefer particularly to the present system of public education. What he wished was to bring under the notice of the Presbyter}' the advantage, even the necessity, of creating some further means of giving instruction to the children. He did not mean only " religious" instruction, but instruction in the facts which the Bible contained. He begged to move, " That this Presbytery ' instruct ministers within the bounds to endeavour, in addition to any plans that may be at present in operation,to m ike suitablo arrangements for the instruction on week days, of children belonging to the several congregations." —The Rev. Mr. Macnicol said he had talked this matter over with the Rev. Mr. Runciman, who also had considered this subject. It was not desired by himself, or by Mr. Runciman, to speak of the existing system of education or interfere with it. A great deal hid been said in the ne ivspapera about the remissness of tho clergy in their duties. There was too much of this newspaper cant. He did not wish to reflect on proprietors, editors, or managers of newspapers. Bat ever and anon they read a letter from some outside person who growled that the clergy were not doing their duty. But the fact was that these persons knew nothing whatever of the endeavours which had been made by the clergy (individually, and in connection with the Scripture Gift Society) to secure religious instruction to the children attending tho public schools. As for himself he had given attention to the whole subject, and personally attended ut a school of several hundred children. He could not obtain, an attendance of more than 30 children, and these were principally the children " of his own Church. The difficulty surroundiug the matter was very great. He believed that they must either devise some separate means for Bible instruction, apart altogether from the public system of education. He thought the subject was well worthy of the attention of the Presbytery. He proposed that two hours of a Saturday morning should be given to children for Bible instruction.—The Rev. T. Norrie believed that tho efforts made by the clergy for giving religious instruction had not been properly or fully reported. He had given all the assistance he could to the Scripture Gift Association and by his own individual efforts. He believed that if the Church were to attempt to interfero with the existing system of public education it would not improve the position of affairs. But he was prepared to adopt any intelligible plan that would provide for the want of present means of giving children a sound knowledge of the Scriptures.— The Rev. Mr. McCallum gladly supported the motion which had been brought before the Presbytery. Ho bad seen systems of public education in operation in various countries. Ho saw an excellent system in operation in Norway. In Ameiica the difficulties incident i to a secular system were expeiienced as well I as here. He believed that a good deal of the hoodlumism and larrikinism which was noticed had grown out of tho absence of every kind of instruction in Biblical knowledge. He recognised the distinction which had been made ■between religious instruction ;a.nd .tho knowledge of Scripture—the confetti! of the Bible. This was the basis upon which religious instruction was to be given. There was an excellent system in Scotland. There tho Bible might bo read for an hour every day. The Biblo was to be read without note or comment. There was a conscience clause in the Act. The hour for this purpose was from 0 a.m. to 10 a.m., and tho ordinary business commenced at the latter hour. There was no difficulty found there. It some such system could be established in this country, it would answer every purpose. — The Rev. J. Macky snid that the only practicable means of seeming what was so much desired was a return, as far as possible, to tho old practice. He doubted whether the means proposed would have the effect desired. Tho proposal to occupy the Saturday in the way indicated would not have the effect. Many I ministers 1 would not be equal to the effort made in connection with their ordinary Sabbath work ; then the children, themselves, looked upon the Saturday, as a holiday.—The Rev. Mr. Craig said that ministers were obliged, even at present, to accept the services of others in teaching.—The Rev. D. Bruce, in reply, said that the answer to be made to those who complained of the inactivity of the Church was, to presciibe some practical means of carrying into effect tho objects in view. He would glidly approve the system that obtained in Scotland, if it could be obtained. That would be, perhaps, the optimist plan of a secular system. When this matter was before the House, and when it was found that the reading that the reading of the Lord's Prayer in the school must go, he (Mr. Bruce) inade an effort to have the control of this matter left to the committees. But this was objected to as giving too much power into the hands of the committees. He had heard a good deal about the unfitness of teachers in the schools. If ever the Bible should be ..again read in schools he would urge that the teachers, and the teachers alone, should do it. They must accept with the existence of a large body of professional persons that they would possess ordinary good faith. In every profession one, two, or even more, persons could be found who did not act up to the standard set before them by their brethren, but they must accept the whole body. What his motion contemplated was not purely religious instruction, which was strictly Sabbath-school work, but a communication of the facts of the contents of Biblical history to the children. —Motion agreed to unanimously. North Shore and Lake. — A deputation consisting of Messrs. Robertson and McKay, appeared to urge the claims of this district. They said they had not had a minister for several months. The people at the Lake would be satisfied with almost anything which would be an' improvement on the present state of things.—The Rev. Mr. Macnicol read a letter

from Mr. Goldie, to the effect that a circilu" had been sent out to ascertain what the people : would contribute,, A sum of £25 w»b promised, and the pew and seat rents vrould realise about £UQ. The probable stipend -would bo about £140 a-jear.—The Rev. Mr. Somerville: The first question to be determined was, whether the Lake was to continue a part of the North. Shore?. — The deputation having been heard withdrew.— The Kev. Mr. McCallum said the Wesleyans had taken up the ground and were mr.king considerable progress. He was glad to see it. When he undertook the Lake work, there was an assistance- to be had from the North Shore. The people had shown great unanimity and harmony, and said they would shut up the church if he left. It had been said down South, that he had left without leave. Eut he was never iu' tho position of being bound to ask leave. He believed the statement was made inadvertently. .He was willing to take the North Shore service for another twelve months. He was not a man "of herculean strength; be would do his best.—The Rev. Mr. Norrio thought that instead of the boundaries being changed, Mr. McCallum might take the whole district, with the assistance of & student evangelist.—The Rev. Mr. Somerville said the pastoral connection between Mr. McCallum and this district should have been completed long ago. It had been stated that ten persons had promised £5 for the appointment of a resident agent; if Mr. McCallum had such assistance he might see his way to undertake the pastoral'superintendence of the whole district. To the £50 promised, a sum of £35 was promised by the Lake people. That would be £85. There could be no great difficulty in raising the other £15.—The Rev. D_ Bruce did not think the Church Extension Committee here was" in a position to make 'a grant. The committee of the Free Church at Home might do something. He moved, "That Mr. McCallum be appointed to the North Shore; that the committee be requested to submit to this Presbytery a document for a grant of the Home Church, to be endorsed by the Presbytery."—Agreed to.

Condolence.—Mr. McCallum moved, "That the Moderator be requested to write a letter of condolence to the President of the Wesleyan Conference in relation to tho heavy Affliction and great loss to the Christian Church, p.irtioularly to the Wesleyan brethren, occasioned through the wreck of the Tararun, and express--ing sympathy with the surviving brethren."— Tho Rev. Mr." Norrie seconded the motion.—The Rev. Mr. Mackay supported the motion, which, was unanimously agreed to.

Sabbath Schools.—The Rev. Mr. Monro brought up the report of the S.ibbath schools for the past year; also, the report of the Sabbath school examination, and the report of Presbytery assessment of churches for 1880.— The reports were received and adopted.

Assessment. — In the ease of the assessment of churches for Presbytery expenses, authority was given to assess anew the debt of any particular church being included. —The Rev. Mr. Runciman was appointed convener of the Assessment of Expenses Committee.

RE3IGSATION and Appointment.—The Rev. Mr. Mason tendered his resignation as theological tutor, in consequence of pressure of other engagements. —Mr. Mason's resignation was accepted with thanks, and Mr. Cairick was appointed in his stead. Introductions. — The Rev. D. Bruce introduced the Rev. McKenzie Fraser, now in New Zealand, to the Presbytery. Mr. Macnicol introduced Mr. McLelland, who was admitted to be a third year student ; the Rev. Mr. D. Bruce introduced Mr. David Norrie, son of the Rev. Mr. T. Norrie, of Papakura, as a student under the Presbytery. Marriage.—Mr. W. Gow, of Eawakawa, sent a letter asking the power to perform the ceremony of marriage.—It was agreed to forward the name of the applicant to tho Moderator of the General Assembly, so that the name should be put on the list of authorised persons. Fiji.—Mr. Bruce brought under the notice of the Presbytery the recommendation of the General Assembly that some endeavour should be made to establish a branch oE the Church in

Fiji. ' Ellebslie, Epsoh, and Mount Koskill. — The Kev. Mr. Bruce brought under the notice of the Presbytery a petition that these placeu should be made a missionary district.—Kev. Mr. Monro complained that he had not been consulted in regard to Epsom, which adjoins his charge.—Mr. A. White said that many outlying districts could not have any services through want of funds and men. People in Ellerslie, &c. were near existing churches.—The Kev. Mr. Bruce : If the Church did not supply these districts some other body would. Suburban Church Extension.—The Kev. Mr. Bruce said that the city and suburbs were extending in several directions ; it was, therefore, desirable to have some organisation which, would report to the Church Court the needs and interests of the Church. Certain places would become rapidly populated. He moved, "That a committee be appointed for the purpose of reporting ou this subject."—Agreed to.

Visitation. — The Rev. M. McCallum gave notice that he would move at nest meeting, " That some organised visitation under the sanction of the Presbytery should be made to the mariners and others visiting this port."