AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

New Zealand Herald, Volume V, Issue 1433, 20 June 1868, Page 6

AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

FRIDAY, JtJNE! 19. The Speaker took the Ohai* at 3 o'clock. The Clerk read the minutes of the preceding sitting which were confirmed. PETITIONS. Mr. Swanson presented a petition from twenty Licensed Victuallers, in which they heard with alarm the proposed stringency of the new Incensing Acfs, that owing to the amount of the licensing fee they were with difficulty able to get a livelihood. Also, the high duties, which seemed tc increaee as consumption decreased; also, the restrictions upon licensed houses, that the Superintendent ought to protect a. claae of men who contribute so largely to the preservation of provincial institutions, &c. Moved by Mr. Swanson, that the Petition be received. Agreed to. Captain Coopeb presented a Petition from Mrs. Andrewartha relating to a claim tor land. Mr. CHEEBBMAN asked without notice, whether the Government had any knowledge how it was that posts ani rails had been taken from the railway near Mount Smart. The PBOVEfciAL Secretaby said the Government had no official notice of the fact. He believed that some posts and rails had bean reotOTed, but Government W3S not aware of their being taken away wholesale. Mr. B. Maclean Said that within the last few days the whole of the poetand rail s near the J unction, at Newmarket had disappeared. The Peovinoial Sbcbetaby said the Government were obliged to hon. members for having brought the matter before the notice of the Government. The Government would institute inquiry and bring to justice the perpetrators of euch wholesale robbery. ME. PETER GRACE'S CLAIM. Mr. '. Huntek moved—Thnt Message Wo. 38 of last session, respecting the claim of fir. Peter Grace, be now taken into consideration. The Meesago apprised the Council that M>. Graco had addressed the Government to have hi» plant returned to him, and that compensation should be given to him for what had been iojured or removed. The Message alse get out a release which was given by Mr. Grace. The Message was published at the time. That in the opinion of this Council the amount of money received by the Provincial Government for all Kailway plant furnished by Mr. Peter Grace and sold by them should bo paid, and that the portion of the plant unsold should be returned to him, he receivin compensation for any depreciation in the value as realized by that portion which was not in the eame condition as it was then left by him, tind for any portion that may bemissing. Mr. Cheeseman explained that it was known that Mr. Grace had taken the contract for Section No. 1. It was found that it was necessary to give a certain amount to Mr. Q-raca, he finding his plant; which money was paid by instalments. The Kailway Commissioners had mado the contract with Mr. Grace in the first instance, and ti portion was afterwards done under their supervision. When Mr. Whitaker became Superintendent, the Commissioners' act was set aside and the work carried on under the Provincial Government. Sometime afterwards an arrangement was made with Mr. Gracs that he was to do cortain work, and he was to liberate them and they to liberate him. No doubt Mr. Grace wns a heavy loser. He had lost at least about £1000 by the railway. Hβ could not sea ar>y harm in giving hini the plant. The plant had been no earthly use to the Gsvornment, but was rotting i away. It might be said that the daed of releaao was was good in law. So it was ; but there was an equity side to the question. It should ba recollected that there was the case of Mr. Eland ford, who had contracted but was'not able to proceed with his contract. Mr. Blandford had deposited £1000, but that deposit was returned to him. Mr. Blandford hid not loet a sixpence, hut Mr. Grace had been a very heavy loser. He begged to move—That in the opinion of this Council, the amount of money received by the Provincial Government for all railway plant furnished by Mr. Fetcr Grace, which has been sold, should be paid to him, and that the portion of the plant supplied by him, now in the possession of tho Government should be handed over to him ; he receiving compensation for uny depreciation in that portion of the same which is not in the like good condition as when left by him (the petitioner), and that he should likewise be compensated for any further portion which m y be missing. Mr. Newman seconded the motion. Mr. Swansox said he never hoard a speech which had eo much astonished him as the one just made by Mr. Cheeseman. He had heard that hon. member eay that Mr. Graco was paid and over-paid. i Mr. CKEE3EMAN : Not over-paiil. I never said over-paid. I said he wai paidMr. SWANBON: Yes. He brought down the deed. He showed that Mr. Grace had been paid. He (Mr. Swauson) would be just before being generous. When the province could not pay its own liabilities he would not be for giving money which need not be given, and for ■which the province was not liable. Uβ would like to hear the deed of rolease read. (The deed was read.) If there was a lot of stuff that was no use to the province but might be ut-eful to Mr. Grace, he would not object. It was evident that if a large sum of money had been made, there would have been no petition, asking the Council to take some of the money baci*. The Peovinciai Secretary regretted that the question had been brought up again. Ho had hoped he had heard the last of a bad job. But if it was to be established as a precedent that petitions coming from persons who had not completed contracts into which thoy entered were to have effect, there would be no end of the liabilities which would be put upon the Provincial Government. Tho deed of releaee was a full acquittance of the Government aud Mr. Grace and his sureties. Mr. Cheeseman was the very man who fixed the sum that should be paid to Mr. Grace, and he (Mr. Creighfon) was tho more astonished at the statemont made that day, and the action taken upon it. He (Mr. Creighton) would say that if there was anotjaitable as well as a legal side to the question, the equity was to be found in the mutual release. It was said the plant v.'as rotten. He believed there wa3 a great deal more that was rotten also A Membeb: "Where? The Provixciax. Secretary: I will come to that. There was a report on the subject by a practical man which had been aent in to ths Government, iu which the writer that he looked over the plant without an inventory; that one engine which T7as packed in sawdust was depreciated 30 per cent, that several parts of the plant were exposed on the ground, and the writer said that he heard from Mr. Chceaemau that there was material for 10 miles of permanent way. If there had been any breach of equity, tho hon. member (Mr. Cheeseman) was one of those to blame. There was an application from Mr. Grace for work done to tho extent of £930, for work done in February, 1566, and it would be seen that tho release was signed in -July 1866. He bslicved that Mr. Graco had been the victim of the action takes by the Railway Commisjiouers. The Government must give the motion the most strenuous opposition. There might have been pressure brought to bear on Mr. Grace, but however that may be, the Commissioners, not the Government, were to blame. Mr. McLeod: If pressure had been brought to bear on Mr. Grace— Provincial Secretary: Tho pressure, if there was any, was not either by the Gouernmen tho commissioners. There are more " ecrews" than a corkscrew. Mr. McLkod : If pressure was used by the Government Mr. Grace ought to have some compensation ; and if the plant was of no use to the Government, but might be useful to Mr. Grace, he ought to get it. Mr. Shbehan said there was no pressure made upon him, as he believed that ample compensation was to be given. There had been a proposal that the sureties themselves would carry out the work. Bnt the engineer who then had charge it was impossible to work with, without putting one's hands under his feet. He (Mr. Sheehan) understood that Mr. Grace was'to have his plant back. He believed that what was wanted was roade, and not the railway; but sureties of other contractors were allowed to carry the work through: why had not the eame been done with Mr. Grace's" contractors ? He hoped the Council would do justice. Mr. A. Clarke said the question lay in a nutshell. After having heard the deed of release, he could not have the sligheit doubt. He did not Pee how the Council could do otherwise than maintain the deed. At the same time ho would have no objection to give back any portion of the plant which was no use to the province—not as a matter of right, but merely 'ex gratia. I Mr. J. Keru said it was plain that Mr. Grace had , been victimised. I The Provincial Sbcbetary wished to sot aside any misunderstanding by saying that there -was no

pressure on Mr. Grace, who was represented by a solicitor. Mr. J. Tljibm '■ But Government got the money— they got the benefit;, and if so, in equity he was entitled to what he asked. Mr. Greighton- : 2fo. Dr. Nicholson said the deed wa» an equitable document, and the transaction under it was an equitable proceeding. Mr. Grace agreed to accept a sum iu full of all demanda. Hβ thought the Council would not be justified in bringing pressure on the Superintendent—to do injustice to the province. The Superintendent was, in fact, the representative, or perhaps himself, a body corporate, and the Council should be wary how they established a precedent. It was insinuated that Mr. Grace signed under what was called iu law a " surprise." It was seen, by the deed that there tm a solicitor employed in the case, Mr. Mr. Di&nan explained that Mr. Gillies was then Provincial Solicitor; Mr. MacOormick was Mr. Grace's solicitor, and was consulted. A Mkmbeb : A solicitor was employed. Sir. DiGnan said that he was conversant with oil the facts, and no pressure whatever was brought on Mr. Grace. He believed there had been a quarrel between Mr. Grace and the Engineer, which induced the Bailway Commissioners to withdraw the contraet from Mr. Grace. The work done was measured and the amount put to Mr. Grace's credit. They took an inventory of his plant and placed the value to hii account. But in consequence of the quarrel with the engineer he could not get any account of money which was due to him. The consequence was embarrassment of Mr. Grace with his creditors. Hence lie was induced to resign his contract- The work was subsequently let at a leee rate than that for which Air. Grace wa3 to carry it out. The Government, from this consideration, were anxious to dete.mine all contracts, in order to save the province considerable loss. Mr. Whitaker had to go to We~lington, and Dr. Pollen became Daputy-buperinten-dent, and a correipondence ultimately took place. A communication was received from Mr. Grace, and Mr. Cheeseman was consulted as to the amount that could be justly given. Mr. Grace put in a sum which the Government thought too much. Mr. Grace took the sum of £2,300 ver r graciouely. Th« sum covered all plant and all demand*. If people went for large profits, they must also be prepared for losses. There was no pressure whatever of any kind put upon Mr. Grace by the Provincial Government. Mr. Hurst said he entered into the sympathy which had been expressed for Mr. Grace. The Council was in the position of a house of appeal in the present caee. The statement made by the hon. member (Mi - . Cheeseman) might do ample justice to hii heart, but it certainly did no juaticeto his hea.d. He thought that for the Council t~> interfere in a matter which was so strong on the part of the Government-., both as regarded law and equity, would be injudicious, and was not, in his opinion, to be thought of. Though he (Jlr. Hur3t) sympathised with Mr. Grace, he must support the ijcvernment, for if a case of the kiad were to be successful, where would such cases atop ? Mr. Ckbeskmix said the Government sold £225 worth of this plint the other day and got the money for it. Colonel Peacocks did not see thit the claim had anything to stand upon either in law or equity. Equitable release was a discharge in full. There might be a claim for compensation arising out of apeoiil circumstances He did not sea how the Government, in this matter, could be called upon to meet this claim. Whatever sympathy the Council might have with Mr. Grace, this claim must be set aside. There might be a gift ex gratia, but not in satisfaction of any claim. Both the motion and Mr. Cheeseman's amendment, that the plant should be returned to Mr. Grace, were negatived. GEAMJHB SCHOOIi TRTJaT. Mr. Swawson moved —1. That this Council adheres to the opinion it expressed in tho years 186S and 1867—that \ grammar-scHool should be established with the funds arising from the estate of the Grammar-school Tru3t. 2, Thnt it approves of the mode of constituting tho Board of Management prescribed by the Oramma--school Appropriation Act of last session. 3. That, with a view to save further legislation n the subject, a respectful address be presented to hie Honor the Superintendent, rrquosting him to ascertain, and inform this Council, whether his Honor the Chief Justice will consent to exercise tho power of appointing the three non-official members of the Board, which ia vested in him by the Act of thy Provincial Legislature. He had thought a great deal on the subject, bathe ; saw a leader in the Herald that morning—a leading article which took completely tho wind oat ot their sails. Lie had to apologise to the Council, therefore, if he said no more than, half of what there appeared, and which was much better put than he could put it. He did not eee any reason or supposing that the Council ceased to adhore to the expression of opinion recorded during the last session, and previous sessions. As to the second proposition he ■thought that his Honor air George Arney was about the best person to nominate, for he was removed altogether from the re;ion of politics, and the plan indicated by the propositions appeared to him better than what was proposed by tho Government. There were many reasons which would suggest themselves as influencing Judge Moore in declining to act. One of these wa9, perhaps, that his official position in this province was only temporary, and he might conceive that he would bo wanting in courtesy to Judge Arney by assuming any power or patronage, or hU light to which might be questioned. [The hon. member read from the journals of 1866 and 1867 the proceedings in favour of the utilization of the fund at a time whoa the account was not half so prosperous as at the present moment, and showing that in the correspondence which took place between the then Superintendents, their Governments, and the Council, there was a general agreement that the fund should be utilised for the purpose contemplated by the Act of the Uat asssion of the Council.] The message of hie Honor the Superintendent never indicated that there had been the slightest intenion of of interfering with this trust, and the Council on the subject said they had not any intention whatever of diverting the funds from the purpose for which they wore intended. What was the state of the account! ? There were £693 7s. 6d. comine; in, £6,000 were out at 10 per cent., producing £800 a year, and there was £791 7s. lid. in the bank. He believed that there was a houae at their disposal, with furniture already in it, and with the exception of the want of masters to be employed, scholars could be received in a very few weeks. He mentioned this to show that they had enough to go on with. Something had been said about the competition element and the seoular element. The secular never could compete with the religious one. The religious one was always rent free. Hβ was not aware of any secular eehool that was otherwise than handicapped with rent at all events ; b'ut there was no rent for the religious schoole f either the High School or the Wesleyan School. Every private school was also badod to the extent of ,' the rent. That was, of course, an item. The master who should be employed should havs hi 3 bread and butter sure. There should be no carking care —no toadying to rich parents and being hard upon children of poor folks; but being at ease and tranquility, the masters would be more just and _ fairmore efficient and more solicitous for their own credit sake. This was an advantago which the maeter, no doubt, would have, and which the competitive system did n->t give. It was as much the duly—as much its duty arising from the necessity of the case—for the give a good education aa to give pure water. The co-operative system was advancing at home, and it would bo found that having largo schools, with masters thoroughly efficient in giving a sound, genuine, unadulterated education, would preserve the state from blame, while the good would be almost immediatsly seen. Instead of having schoolmasters starved, there would be a standard which all other schoolmasters would have to reach. There ehouio be a master for mineralogy, for that was a snsjecj worthy of serious attention just now. The plan." carried out, would pay one-hundred fold, iu no way mieht the money be so profitably employed as sowing the seed of knowledge in young minds, tor physical strength was always etronger when bem? . wielded by an intelligent power. He hoped ana trusted that the Council would agree to what tnej . had fomierly and repeatedly agreed to. . lha ,-?r ; was law, and as it was law, let the motion of Wβ i Provincial Legislature be onrrieUnto effect. , bodv should have tho chants of education tor n» , children. It would oreate a feeling of/ 0, ?. People here, if they had monev necessary to ea cate thyir children, would go home or send ««u home. He was desiroue to have the associations home and of childhood created and preserved children and parents here. The wa< here as tic scenery as in any part of the W 0 "" , d remembered with fondness and pride, the mu» a

But there wai another reason, r*o,.T might depend on it if they eent their aona ■ for wn»land to be educated the boys would marry *? i there (laughter.) Let their eons marry the *v! that are here (lwri laughter and cheer*). It wld be the pride of every man to make the untry he adopts his home. Here there was to be 00 n what waa not to be seen in any other part of •j* wor ld— namely, high and low water at the lame time. There were poor men to-day who might be iVh'men before a month. He knew men who, a month ago, would he glad to get a day's work, yet _. ere at that moment earning £100 a-week. He had nothing more to say on the subject. (Cheers.) Hγ. Newman r»aid, in opposing the motion, his difficulties had been considerably increased by the admirable speech of Mr. Bwanson, who had made the beat speech that had been heard in the Council for a long time. But Mr. Swanson had subverted all the facts, which were apparent to the commonest obserTatio'n. There were, as stated on the previous evening, excellent private schools which were a credit, not only to the persons who conducted them, but to the appreciation for education which the inhabitants. But the only difference which existed between himself and the hon. member was that he [Mr. Newman) wished to extend the benefit of oducaiion to the whole country. There had been an Edusation Act passed which wan unworkable, owing to ;he inability of raising funds. He could not see why n districts where education was so desired, assistance night not be given in thoee places were rates were ;eried. Hie attention, and the attention of the Council, had been directed to a very -able article in he leading journal of this city, the Herald. Ho Mr. Newman) admitted the ability of that trticle, but it in one respect confirmed what had seen eaid—that a high-class education could be had n Auckland on very moderate terms, and eren for a ess sum than in other parts of colony. If there irere able masters here, other masters were ready to ame when there would be a demand for them. As to the sacred character of the grant, he (Mr. Newman) would like to see a committee appointed, and x> have Sir George Grey summoned. If there was ;o be any legislation in the matter, he wnuld prefer x> have the fund reserved until such time when n jollege might be established—a college would be lomething "the inhabitants were not li&ely to get itherwise. They could not help having partiality n .the way proposed to use the fund. But by a lollege Mr. SwaxsON : Would that be for the poor man ? Mr. XiwMiS believed that would be much better ian to have the fund frittered nwuy in providing >nly that which could be had without employing the iind. If employed at all, the country, as well as the ;own, had a light to the henefit of it. On the motion of Mr. BcckUxd, the Council, it a quarter past six o'clock, adjourned for half-an-iour oa a division. DBBATE RESriIKD. Mr. BvcKLAXD said that he would have been glad to eitecd the benefit of the fund to the out-districts, jut he would give his vote for the utilization of the fond at ence. If it must be given to Auckland, let iuelland have it, b-.it better it should be utilized in i iuekland than not utilized et once. j Captain Cooper said he would also desire to seo ; the fund utilized for the benpfit of tho out-districts, ; but he preferred to utilize it in this peninsula—the Vccsland peninsula—rather than run the risk of its . atilizatisn being indefinitely postponed or not take i place at all. I Mr. Wrani said there was an order on the t.thle upon the same subject, viz.--the second reading of the bill bre ught down by the Government. When he heard statements made that the General Assembly should be applied to — what was the use of 'hat r There had been too much of the General Government and the General Assembly, and he would say to those hon. gentlemen who =hc-uld go to the Assembly that they sfcould think "mest of preserving the integrity of the province. If the lucd were utilized, wuula not children from &ny part, of the province be eligible to share in it ? What was the superintendent but in place of a trustee ? and why should he be f.sked to divert a trust fund cranted for a particular purpose? If a rich man Hie Mr. Peabo:Jy were to grant a large sum of money to be used for a particular purpose, upon what grcurd—by what argument —could such a fund be diverted ? The diversion of a fund of the kind would he diverting it from those who would reap the benefit to others, and there was no right in an-oce to doanythi a of the kind. Mr. : It is n public fund. Mr. Wns : For a particular purpose. Ha (Mr. VTynn) cordially aasented to the resolutions before Council. He had every reason to believe that Sir George An.ey would act upon the resolutions, if thev should 'jo.-5, and if they should pass it would not be "necessary to proceed with the order of the day. He believed* the resolution would pasa, and he was mre that both the Superintendent and the Chief Justice would give effect to them. Mr. HuBST said ihathe had taken the part he took in a previous debate under a certain amount of misconception. ' He did not see that he could further continue. He regretted that tho country districts ] had not sbown greater activity in the interest of education. He had read carefully over the ternw of the grant, and he must adn.it that a college or ' & grammar-school was what was apparent in the tninda of those who framed the trust deed. Pimilar institutions existed in the South, and in Nelson more especially, the object of which ■was to give a high class education. He went entirely with the hon. member for the City West (Mr. Swanson), in the desire to see children taught to make the country their home. He would like to see education scattered throughout the length and breadth of the province. Nelson College was a Knalltr institution. He had found that both Mr. Mcßae and Dr. Kidd applied for the mastership of Nelson College. It was to the credit of these gentlemen tfcat out of 45 candidates they stood fourth or fifth. He believed it was creditable to Auckland that these gentlemen should have been placed so high. There was no certainty that these gentlemen could be retained, for the position was arduous, and by no means -well paid. Colonel Peacocke believed that there was no right in the Jouncil to divert this fund. When the Edu catien Bill passed last session there were many who foretold what the result would hive been. It would have been surprising had the result been ctherwiee. All political writers had recognized the obliga'ion of the Government to educate the people. Dr. Nicholsok said those resolutions had remov d his objections to the bill brought down. As to the competition, if it were a mere matter of food and clothing, in these cases a man was supposed to bo a fair judge of hia ■wants. But in the present case the pereons who want are not the judges of what they want. A Grammar-school supplied a standard of education by which the generality of people will be able to guage the education in private schools. As to the argument of Mr. Newman—that this Grammer-echool would subvert those in existence, such is not the lesson of experience, but rather that schools which are up to, or near, tho Btandard are better supported. The hon. gentleman said that the General Assembly could divert theee .funds. If so, he would be in no worse position, for then he could go the General Assembly. Tie did not think either the Council or the .General Assembly had the power to divert, for if a trust could be over-ridden, then it would be dangerous to all trust matters. In all trust matter* it behoved public bodies or private persons to walk tenderly. Indeed, the Council should eet ite ace against and eucb diversion, es a rule, for, if not, its decision might be construed into a precedent. In order to he a judge of education it required a competent person to bfi a judge. Assuming tlo Grammarschool started, the j'unde would increase, and the property grow in value, and at length there would be reason to believe that grammar-schools would be established in different parts of the province. Mr. Kf.be said he was pretty much in the position of the hon. member for tho City West, who said that the New Zealand Kebald had taken the wind out of his eail3. JBowever, tho hon. member made a very good speech, notwithstanding. He was disposed when coming to the Council to have taken the M<3e of the quebtion which related to the country districts, but from the ablo speeches he had heard and the great amount of information that had been given by the speakers, he would not attempt to oppose tha resolutions. At the game time, he waa afraid that the country districts would not be very well satisfied with the result. He would he inclined, he feared, to regard the result aa tomethiug like class legislation He believed that the hon. gentleman, the law Offcl'r, had promised if the Permiesive Bill woul-i not work it would ha done away with. Mr. Wykn: No. Mr. Kekr hoped the hon. member would bring down » bill which would compensate the country for what they were losing in this bill. ■: r ?*;?V-WT;«' $*#J Mr. A. Maktin said it wae quite evident that the ttiol-'uione would pass. He was glad that the Coun-

cil was not t" be disgraced by an amendment to the resolutions, by which the trait, he would not say, might be diverted, but by -which it -would be robbed. The utilization of the trust would be beneficial to the country as well as the town. Hβ knew two young men who hfcd recently gone to England to get an education which thoy conld not at present obtain here. He would not say how he would vote if the question were to reserve the fund, bat he would very cordially vote for the resolutions. The Provixciai Skcebtary said he adhered to the opinion he held last session, when he was in a very small minority. Hβ was not aware that there was any promise on the part of the Government to bring down a bill for compulsory rating. On the contrary the opinion of all fides of the Houso was very strongly expressed against any bill for compuls.iry rating. He was sorry that the champion of the country party (Mr, Newman) persisted in asking the fund to be divided, and made ineffective by distribution among parties who had not taxed thomselve9 for tho education of their children. Certainly they had not shown their desire for education, the machineiy having been afforded to them if they wished to nvail themselves of it. Ho believed that the high character of the Chief Justice was a guarantee against a perversion of the trust. He begged to remind the Council that it was moat dangorons, and even revolutionary, to interfere with private trust funds, or trust funds of any kind. He thought it might be well if a division woro called for, that the Council would bo no partv to any tampering with trust funds. Mr. S-Warson said he -was thankful for the -way in which his humble effort had been received. He hea.-d Mr. Newman admit that he also knew a person who was poor a short time ago, and couldn't afford to educuto hiii children, and who was now earning £100 a week. He was very sorry for that person if he could not educate his children. That man was ereatly to be pitied. (Laughter.) ~ Ihe peakeb was about to put the question. Mr. WvNST: Divide. (No, no.) A division was called for, and two members left the chamber. The motion was put, and carried, without a dissentient voice.

CITY BATES. Mr. Newh.wc moved —That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, request ng him to fend down to this Council a bill to amend the City Board Act, bo as to enable tho City Board to recover arrears of city rates from the owners or mortgagees of property, when the tenant has not been able to pay the t>ums duo. He said that he believed this proposition wae perfectly just, fie knew a case -which involved a great hardehip. A Tery valuable property was sold the other Jay for £§,000, and the purchaser found that the:e was a considerable amount duo for rates. He thought that the ( ily Board Amendment Act would meet the eril if enforced, but he would be glad to be batter informed. Mr. Swaxsox seconded the resolution. He would inform the Council that the great difficulty in colleetiDg the rates arose from the impossibility of getting at those who derived immense income from tbe city. Thn poor shopkeeper, tho poor tradesman, the poor occupier was ground to dust. The c;iy could pay every half-penny it owed if those people could he got ;it. [The hon. member road a li:t of valuable properties, which caused much merriment.] But, he continued, there was one gentleman who protested acainst some paltry rate being allowed, because he held property value £30,000. That was a nice thing. That gei-tlemnn had paid in the way of rates joet £4 3s lid. In another case a poor man appealed against bei'g rated at £40, but it turned out that he paid rent"£7o. The man said he would te glad to pay upon £40, which the City Board thought the real value. The poor man paid an enormously high rent, but his landlord did not pay a firthing. Thnt was how that poor man was ground down. The city could pay—bat put the saddle on the right horse. There were other peoplo who did rKt pay a farthing, and would not pay. He had heard that it was good to be in debt. If a man, then, breaks h 6 leg some one will inquire after him; if r.e is bad some one will hope him to be better ; if he is likely to get ■woree it will be somebody's business to see that he gets well. Hβ cordially "supported the resolution. Mr. Bvckxand doubted whether the object of the resolution could be attained. The General Assembly had hedged about real property th>:t it could not be dealt with ns pereonal property would. If the laws relating to both could be assimilated ; something might be done. 3lr. CkeightOS also doubted whether the object of the motion could be attained. The Council could not confer any power over real property, and they would not deal with chattel property. If the motion were to elicit an expression of opinion, the object minht be attained. Mr. MaCkeadt hoped that if there was to be any amendment, there would be a clause to license hawkers within the city. Capt. Coorsß thought it would be advisable to allow the resolution to nbbb.

Mr. Staines 83id that the trade of the hawkera was a great injury to tbe shopkeeper, who paid large rent rates, while the hawker paid neither and gained large profits. ilr. Hurst thought the motion might be allowed to pass, for the purpose of getting the opinion of the law officer. Mr. Newman eaid his reason for proposing the resolution was that it appeared to be hard to make the City Board pay a large sum when they had not full power to collect their rates. He should liketo see a case decided by the Courts, so that the question would be set at rest. ME. P. GRACE'S CLAM. Mr. Cheesemah moved —That Mr. Grace's letter to hie Honor the Superintendent, enclosing a claim for work done on contract No. 1, Auckland and Drury Bailway, and laid on the table of this Council, be now taken into consideration. He believed that Mr. Grace had honestly earned the money (£930) in 1866, and was justly entitled to it. Mr. Cebightojt hoped that the Council would not waste any more time upon a subject which had just previously been fully dieoussed. Mr. Grace was unfortunately out; of Court. It was iccomprehen- | sible that so largo an item could have been overlooked in a final sett'ement of accounts, ae it had been shown there was a final settlement. The SuperinteaI dent had no power in the face of the release to pay ihe money. Mr. Chebbemas having roplied, the metion wa» agreed to. The claim was read, setting out that works to tho extent of £930 had been done in the months of Jan. and Feb., 18b6. Mr. Cheebeman moved —" That this Council is of opinion that if the account of Mr. Grace is not included in the return prepared by the Uailwoy Engineer at the time when the deed of mutual release was executed it should be now paid." Mr. Dignam said the resolution was harmless. The deed was signei in July, and included ail moneys duo to Mr. Grace up to that time. Messrs. Sheehan and Mcl/kod were of opinion that there could be no difficulty in investigating the accounts. Mr. .DiexAN said it iva? the business of those who were not satisfied to look into the accounts. The Government -would give every assistance. Mr. Cbeighton fa ; .d if Mr. Grace had a hoyiafide claim he could buo the Superintendent. It would be stultifying the Council to pass puch a resolution, which affirmed nothing. Mr. Cheeseman, in his reply, wished to explain that the rails, &c, were handed over to li'r. Weaver, and he would not be responsible if there was not a rail left.

The motion waa pu and negatived. SCHOOXi T2ACE3ES. Captain Coopbu moved —That a Committe be appointed to consider the Petitions of the School Teachers relative to their application for grants of land. Committee to consist of Mr. Cl&rk ; Mr. Hurst, T)r Nicholson, Mr. Swanson and the Mcver. The debate on this hud alrendy been taken, and Captain Coooer having replied, the motion was nogutiv«d, inasmuch na other motions upon the same subject were on the order paper. TKACHEHs' OKOWK GBAK'S. Captain Cooi-ek moved—That a respectful address be presented to the Superintendent, inviting his Honor to cause crown grants for lsiud to be issued at onco to those school-teachers who have serveil part of their time in the service of tho province, and are now deprived (through no fault of their own) of the Government salary promised to them. Ho said this -vae a tardy act of justice. Mr. "'-'tjbst seconded the motion. Mr. GnaiGHTON said the motion asked the Pupcrintendent to do what he had not the power to do. The most the Superintendent could do would be to see the arrangement carried out in its intregrity. One of the conditions certainly implied residence in the province for five years. He thought a committee might be appointed which should recommend each caee on its own merits. The motion could do no

good, but tho Government would do everything in their oower to carry out the intention of the Council. There~was a legal difficulty in the may in the Auokland Waste Lands Act. Captain JTrazbb thought the provincehad broken faith with teachers who were deprived of the means or staying in the province for the fivo years. That toing so, the teacher ought to receive his grant, and if he liked to go let him go. It wna useless to teop him here starving till the end of the five years. Bettor let him go and find some employment. Dr. Nicholson- suggested the insertion of the word* " on applicatiin by them," which amendment was accepted by the mover, nnd the motion was carrUd. PAWNBROKERS. Dr. Xicholsos moved —That a rospectfnl address ho presented to hin Honor the Superintendent, requeeticg him to send down a bill to this Council to licenso pawnbrokers, to regulato establishments lor pawnbroking, and bring them under the surveillance of th'i police within tha province of Auckland. He said he would not take up the time of the Council furthor than by saying that it was generally complained of by magistrates, judges, and others, the facilities for getting rid of stolon goods. Mr Creiohto.s- sail tho Government would not oppose the moti'in, but there would be no time to bring in u bill on the subject this session. Next session ho hoped to bring down a wolL-considered measure. , The Council adjourned until three ck o cloon Monday.

WniTTE.v on hearing of the motion for the reduction of tho Superintendent's salary to £500 per annum :— Tlif greatest virtue one can seo In statesmen, is economy ; A virtue which, I grieve to say, I've not seen practised till to-day, When this descendant of Red Hugh— "Who pockets daily two pound two, Besides his travelling expense, For selling his experience, In bridewells, jnils, and calabooses, In handcuffs, fetters, nnd their vises, And all tho pains the inquisition Devised to save us from perdition — Did, from the opposition bench, Propound a motion to retrench His Honor's low but well-earned salary, Which every stranger in the gallery, And evory member in the hull, Acknowledges extremely small For nil tlie labour lie performs In our slate craft in calms and storms. Compared to labours such as these, Now, tell me, Doctor, if you please, What, service is performed by you, Who pockets daily two pound two ? Your rents collected, and your swag Stowed snugly in your carpet bag, You may take shipping for Otago, Or. if you pL-:ise, for Saint Tago ; For no one here your course will track, Or cares although you ne'er came back. On board you sip the choicest wine, At our expense you quatt' and dine, And for the little which you elo, We must, pay daily two pound two. Some men can live on meagre tare, Ami sonic .Mil almost live on air ; Empty their cellars, pantries, shelves, Tlicv hurt no person but themselves; 13ut'wlii-n they other men would force To practise their abstemious course, Whose stomachs never hail a trial To test their powers of self-denial, 'Tin time to tell them, \vr\ few Can starve to save their two pound two. Fitzgerald, eloquent and bold, Was gassed by ministerial gold ; No more'in senate he'll appear, To lose eight hundred pounds a, year. It was a national disgrace The (lay that lie resigned his place; But thousrh the Norman took the bait That oft before bought men as great, Hibernian's sons some pride still felt —. They had their uncorrupteiA Celt, The'ofl'spring of a thousand kings ; Now he. it .-.eeiiis, lias taken wings, Ami joined the ministerial -Hvw For every day his two pound two.