General Assembly of New Zealand.

New Zealand Herald, Volume III, Issue 900, 2 October 1866, Page 5

General Assembly of New Zealand.

HOUSE OP EEPi?ESENTATIYES. - MONDAY", SEPitiMBER 24. j The Si'EAKi:u took the eh-nir at 12 o'clock. Mr. Upinia presented a petition from John Watson, <i Harbour-master at Xew Plymouth, relative to a land clnim. Mr. Dlck. presented a petition from 260 storeKeepers and miners oi the Tuapeka district, praying c that the Provincial Government might retain its e powi.rs in matters relating to goldiields, and ruight have furthor powers. /*? r " IlTK,Nsu:i presented a petition from gome e f-ltUeivi ot Xarannki relative to lauil granted to Dr. i i l - 1 ' stating that Dr. Mouatt had formerly taid t that the wa?_was k"-pt up "by the colonists for the sake ot keeping up Commissariat expenditure, and acquiring the land of the native?; and prayin" that 1 Dr. Mouatt might be rewarded in a way leas likely e to hurt his feelings than hy giving him a portion of t the said laud of the natives. 3 _ notices op motion. t _ Some notices of motion for leave of absence were 3 given. I THE TELEGItAPU DEPAUTSIEST. J Mr. Dick inked a question relative to the work in o 5 of the Telfi-mph Department. ° t -Mr. J. Hai.h said that tho complaints had reached t ]'i !n i an.i iuquiries were being made into the matter. 5 i'tie delay aeueraliy was owing to the want of asulii- ; c,0,,t sl -ar, and was beingremedied. '.t he delay of ~ the lutis arrival of ihe mail was owing to the , TU!-;'Oini:iu(, of two or three persona in the telegraph j service, who hid t-een suspended. 1 C'LAIiH 01-' TUP. COLONY ON THE IMPERIAL ] UOVKKN.MKST. l FitzG-ekat.'D wished to ask a question, with--4 out notice, relative to the eon liter claim made by J Mr. .Stafford on t!:e Imperial Government. He wished to know whether he had taken into consideration the sum paid in compensation to tho Taranaki 1 settlers, which, by an amendment moved by himself (•Mr. i-'ilxGcralti) tn ;i revolution in ft former session, was declared tj be justly chargeable to the Imperial Government. Mr- Stafford replied that Mr. Stanley .Tones had .uii\e,( iieie on beii'ilt of the Imperial Government . lor tlui purpo.-e of an inve.-itig.-ition into tho claims, , and then-couid be no possible objection to referring r' lr i" , tS ;, ,loues w Ul ° amendment. The resolution had lnLhcrto cscuped the notice of tlie and lie was not aware how Car the Imperial Government would consider it to have any force. the rAN-AJri sr.uvici:. Ham Mr. .Burns to postpone the following notice of motion .standing in his name " That in the opinion of this House public policy and the success of the undertaking alike render it expedient that (he ports of Auckland and should bo the respective ports of arrival and departure of tho Panama steam service," as he had only had his attention called to it within tho last hour. Mr. liuitNs said that many members wore about to leave tj-day, and that they no doubt would wish to record their votes on the question. Ho hoped, if it was postponed, that it would be placed at tho head of tiio order paper next day. Mr. J. Hall said that it could not come on next day, as the orders of the day would be taken first, and would probably take tip tho whole time of the House, but the Government would be willing for the notice of motion to stand in a good position on the order paper for Wednesday. 'file motion was then postponed. THE IMPEUIAL TROOFS. ■Mr 1 iT/GEltAto mover), " I hat this House, having had under its consideration Mr. Card well's despatch to the Governor of JVew Zealand, dated June 25, IiWG, together with its enclosure from Sir Frederick I Rogers to tho Under-Secretary for War, dated June 22, ISfifi, on the subject of retaining one regiment in the colony, re.-lves —I. That this House adheres to the policy indicated by its resolutions of the Gth December, JJ5155, as to the expediency of putting an end to tho divided responsibility in tho Government of tho colony, and in the conduct of its internal defence. 2. That, whilst disclaiming any interference with tho prerogative of tho Crown to place her Majesty's forces in any part of the empire which maybe thought neceesary for the protection of Imperial interests, this House is of opinion that the safety and good government of Now Zealand cannot be secured unless the employment of the whole of the military force engaged in itu internal defence be placed un-ier tho sole direction of the civil Government of tho colony. 3. Th.it, whiist always ready to make such provision for the civil Government and the civilization of the natives as may be right and necessary, this House does not deem it expedient that its duties in this matter should ba measured by the amount of military force which her .Majesty's Government may think it right to keep within tho colony. 4. That a respectful address be presented to his Excellency tho Governor, praying that his Excellency will be pleased to communicate these resolutions to the Secretary of State for tho Colonies." Ho had stated a few days ago that lie thought it was the duty of tho Government to give some dis inct answer to tho Imperial Government on the matter he referred to. and he was told by tho Premier that the Government did not write to Mr Card well. Ho was perfectly aware that the Government could not do so, but there wore official modes in which tho House could communicate with the Imperial Government, vi:;., by an address to the Governor or to the Crown direct, and in other ways. He intended, in this instance, to proooae tho lirst mode, and brought the question before the House, as it was a money question, and should be dealt with by tho House. Alter referring to the necessity of some distinct answer being given to the Imperial Government, tho hon. member said that the communication of Sir Frederick liogers contained a different proposal from fi\nt made in a former despatch of Mr. Card we!), as to tho retention of BOme soldiers on the payment of £-10 or £50 a man, and returned to a proposal, made about fourteen years ago, that some soldiers miirlit be retained in the colony, if a certain stnn wore voted for natire purposes. He brought this matter forward in no party spirit, and with no intention to oppose tho Government, for what whb known as Mr. Weld's policy had become, as tho Premier had said, the policy of the colony, and was generally accepted throughout these Islands. After referring to the evils of double Government which that policy was meant, among other things, to ;;et rid of, Mr. E"i /.Gerald said that it had been accepted by the Imperial government, but would appear now to be about not to bo acted on. He by 110 means was p.buolutc'.y of optuion that the soldiers should bo sent away, but ha desired that the colony should have tho control of its intornal affairs, and should got rid of tho evils of a divided responsibility, and he had accepted Mr. Weld's as a means of attaining that result. It had been said that the soldiers would be placed at Taupo ; if that were done, the result would be disastrous to the colony. Ho tlierefore desired that tho Government should be . responsible for any a.-tion of that kind. After a few more remarks on the necessity of getting rid of a double Government in the colony, Mr. FitzGerald moved the resolutions. Mr. Cox seconded tha resolutions. Mr. Stafford, said that, with regard to the res- . ponsibility of Ministers for the location of a regiment in any particular part of tho colony, he had explained on a previous occasion that Ministers would offer advice to liis Excellency on this point, if any attempt ! wore made to locate a roginient in any particular spot whioh Ministers might think inadvisable. He ! might disabuse hon. member's minds of a fallacy which ho believed existed. It was thought that ki* Excellency could loca.to only the Imperial soldiers, but tho fact was, that his .Excellency had as much power to locate the colonial forces in any particular spot as the Imperial troops, aud Ministers eonld only advise in either case. ' He might that tho Government would never ' ] advise the location of a regiment at Taupo. 'with 1 regard to the main question, he thought it uunecssary i to puss these resolutions, as they would not by any i means change the mind nf the Imperial Government, i and conceived that the. Government should abstain i from negotiations with the Imperial Government ] other than departmental negotiations referring to the .< arming of the ports, and matters of that kind. Tho 1 resolution appeared to him to belike an empty voice. ! Much had b°en said about self-reliance bus when i it came to point tho House appeared to he unwilling ] to incur tho necessary expenditure. If tliereeo'.utioas t were not withdrawn he would move as an amendment 1 to the first resolution tho addition of the following . words " And in orier to givo full effect to that. 1 policy is prepared to provide from, time to time i sufficient means for such defence from the colonial ( revenues " —so that the Government; might be indent- i nified for any expenditure they might think it i necessary to make in ease of any disturbances arising. < He thought, however, that it would b-3 better to < shelve the resolutions altogether.

Mr. FitzGbeaxd said that he would accepV tjje | amendment, but must state that it would not have ' the effect of authorising the expenditure of monev. • Mr. Staffokd said that he knew it would not, but at any rate it was an expression of the mind of the House. Mr Vogel was of opinion that this question H should not be shelved, for the Hou-e should express an opinion with regard to the troops generally. He was not a supporter of the self-reliant policy, "but ho ~ certainly agreed with the third resolution, for he | could not see how any benefits done to the natives ° could be measured by the number of soldiers retained in the colony for the purpose of killing them, The 3 colony had never shown any desire to neglect tho natives ; and, at the same time, a certain" number of j troops should bo kept in the colony for the sake of garrisoning posts. He believed thi 3 ought 10 he done j oil payment of £5 a-liead. The hon. member then t rei'e*red to the evil which would arise if soldiers were . placed at Tuupo, and expressed a hope, that the . f Government would bring tho whole question before the House, so that it might be decided whether the imperial troops should not be retained on the old understanding of £-5 a head being paid for them. * The self-reliant policy had broken down, and hon. members knew it: it whs only now made a tag on which to hang political sentiments. The hou. mem- - ' "\ ; ? to the original resolutions of Mr. •Viud m ISIM and the circumstances under which 1 they were altered, on whieh >ome discussion took . p' ! 'C-a between him and the Premier, a s to what - occured at a meeting held in Auckland during the f the session of IS6"t. The hon. member concluded by a maintaining thatthe Governmeut should obtain from i the House a definite expression of opinion regarding the troop j, and snould let the Home Governmeut be informed of tho exact view of the colony on the subject. Mr. Jot.lte made a fen* remarks in favour of the self-reliant policy. He thought that the Government 5 and the House should protest against tho employment of Imperial troops in native outbreaks, but at the j same timo recognise the power of the Home Govern- (• raent to place troops where it wished. He would sui.port the amendment. I Mr. (-. WiLsox hop'jd Mr. A r ogel did not include him among those who jjthought that the self-reliant ; po'icv has failed, and that the troops should be re- ; tained. He had aeon that the troops had not been made serviceable, whereas the colonial forces had been moved about just as required. He hoped that t all chance of charge of duplicity against tlie colony would be taken away by a right understanding being come to now. Major K:l'Ha:;i).so.v supported the amendment in a short speech. _ Mr. J. Williamson thought that both the resolutions and amendment should be withdrawn, as they would not only hamper the action of the colony, but. also authorise the Government to incur expenditurefor which the House would indemnify it. If another outbreak were to occur, he thought that the duty of the Government would be to call together the representatives of the people. He would move the previous question. The Speaker said that tho previous question could be put on an amendment. Mr. Atkinson* supported the resolutions. Mr. jFitzububeut said that no change had takea place in his views on self-reliant policy, forh believed it had" been most successful. He did not Beetho necessity of tho resolutions, but, as thej were about to be proposed, would support the amendment. He entirely agreed with Mr. John Williamson, that the House should bo summonedin case of emergency, and wished that such a course had been pursued in former years. Mr. Boula.se said that ho wa3 of opinion that thecolony could rely on itself and do without Imperial troops, and he also thought that no native disturbances would over hare arisen if the colony had been left to itself. He did not see why any connection should be made between the keeping of troops and tho amount of money spent on the benefit of the natives, although more than the amount stipulated, was already so spent. Mr. WniTAKER did not see why Mr. had brought forward the resolutions, when he had said that the policy had been accepted throughout tlie colony and by the Imperial Ha (Mr. Whitaker) had been opposed to tho policy of IS6-1, because it would create difficulty and expense ; but as matters now stood, he did not see the use of piling resolution upon resolution unnecessarily. He hoped that on the amendment being made the original resolution would not be put, but that the previous question would be agreed to. At the present time there were four or five regiments in tho cmony, yet tlie action of the colonial troops was not interfered with. He would not discuss tho selfreliant policy; the colony could do what it liked noiv in its own internal affairs, but tho carrying of these resolutions would hasten the departure of the troops,, and probably ex-use the natives to break out * train. Mr. Dillon Bell thought thit the conditions oa Which the Imperial Government would leave a. regiment in tho colony should be refused, so that theremight be no interference in the internal affairs of the colony. Then, if the Imperial Government chose to place a regiment in the colony to protect its own intorests, it could do so. He would not accept tho. amendment. Mr. Caki.etoX had come down prepared to shelve the resolutions altogether, for they meant Dot'nlni* - at the same time the3 T had been much impro.ved by the amendment, He had favoured the sftif-reliant policy, but it had been made a sham, hecatise the House hati seemed unwilling to vote the ir.onev for carrying it out. The answer made by the Premier with, regard to the retention of a regiment had not been satisfactory, but ho (Mr. Caxieton) desired that the House should not interfere, so that the Government misht be responsible. He, for bis part, did not think that all the Quean's soldiers should leavo tlie colony, for he did not think it would be safe to have no force to guard his Excellency and assist thecivil power in case of need. Mr. FitzGbuald accepted the amendment, but he conceived it unnecessary, for it was absurd to tell the Home Government that the House meant to pass the • estimates every year, Jor that was the meaning of the amendment. He was surprised to hear Mr. Whitaker." say that this resolution would cause expense. Su-elv one of tho chief recommendations of the self-reliant policy had been its cheapness. That, member had led a Government which, by pursuing a I different policy, had plunged the colony into enormous expenses. j The original resolutions were negatived on thevoices, and on the amendment being put. Mr. J.;Williamson moved the previous question. The previous question was then agreed to on & division: Ayes, 30 ; noes, 5.1DISTRICT BOABD BUI. Tlie order for the further consideration of this bill in commjtt-eo was discharged from the order paperSIAMOROuaH WASTE LANDS BILL. • On the question that this bill be reported. Mr. Cakietoit made some observations, after which, tho bill v?a& ordered io be read a third-time, to-morrow. LAUD OBDB3 TA.IIA.NAKI BELT.. Mr. J. C. Richmond moved the secood reatKhg of this bill. Mr. Curtis said that he would not oppose the second reading, for he thought that the- long outstanding claims should be settled, but he would, propose some alterations in committee, for he saw by one clause that the land given was to be selected in places which could not be occupied. Mr. J. 0. Richmond said that the land for selection could not be had in a better place. The second reading was agreed to. rOSOt-OITICE ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. J* Hall, in moving the second reading of this bill, said that it was proposed to imposa a penny postage on newspapers transmitted to places within the colony, and a sum on newspapers posted to go abroad sufficient to recoup to the Government the expense. With, regard to these charges, he thought it would be only fair that a postage should be levied on newspapers, forming as they did the largest portion of the inland muils, and returning nothing to the Government. He would not enlarge on the value and good of the public press, for they were generally acknowledged, but he did not see why newspapers should any longer pass free by the postPeople were in the habit of posting newspapers, when they had read them, just for the purpose of sending them to people,-who sometimes did not r;ad them.. A postage on newspapers was said to be a tax, but he did not think it could be called so justly, for the Government was put to much expense in carrying them ; moreover tho Government would not exercise any monopoly in the carriage of newspapers, and people could if they liked get them carried more • cheaply. There was a postage oil newspapers in the other colonies and at Home, so that the Gove.-nmcn; was not taking an unprecedented course. With r«-

Rard to the postage of to toa- 1 ' i; ■ i place*, it. would to propoaad that threepe-w-e sh"nld I)' 1 ch&rged on papers going bv way of M irseib ; s, on account of heavy postage charged by tho French Government, and also on papers going hy wuy of T'n-nmo. :!e hoped that the imposition of this letter SLiunp would cause the charge to bo reduced for taking papers aeries the Isthmus. , At the rame tmo the rout: by t-ou'hamptoa was at ;i cheaper rata. Tho bill also proposed to onae.t that, a penny s amp should b* out on all letters posted at and delivered from the same oflico, an-J n Lwopennv sfi mp on othors. Tho second reading was agreed to. DISTILLATION ORDINANCE. On the motion of Mr. J. 0. kich.ujn-d, a bill to impose a duty on spirits manufactured in the colony was read a first time. STAMP DUTIES MILS. _ The order for the second roaiii g waa postponed till 111 it dny. PATEBS. The following papers woe laid on the table : — Papers relating to Che propo Auckland loan of £250,000, and returns of gene dories of certain natives. IN COMMITTEE. The b lis passed through Committee : — Xiiw Practiti n<>rs Ac'-Amendment, Animations in liiea of Oaths, Xjunatie Ordinance Amendment, Privileges Bills. AFFIRMATION'S IN MRU OK OATHS llir.T.. The Bill was read a third time and passe j. PROVINCIAL APPKOPKIATIOXS. On the motion of Mr Vogel. tho House went into committee to consider an address to the Governor, praying that be will be pleased to recommend the House to nuko apjropriati-ins in accordance with the following resolutions: — " 1. That provision bo made securing" to the provinces for appropriation by the Provinci il Councils a definite proportion of the Customs revenue. " 2. That ilia interest and sinking fu'-d on th° loans contracted by the provinces bo made a fir-t. chsrie upon tho aforesaid proportion of the Customs revenue. " 3. That the unexpended votes of the last financial year be made to revert to the surplus reventio. "4-. That tho provinces be credited with the amount taken from revenue for the unauthorised General Government expenditure charged against, the revenue of Inst year." Mr. Yootl referred to the fact that the Surplus Revenues Act had been repealed by a clau-e in th-' Appropriation Act of li-t year, and suggested that that Act ought to be revived, as it would ennblo the provinces to start fair insleid of b"ing in debt to the General Government. It might be the po'icy o f the Treasurer to ruin the provinces, but he hoped surh a policy would not be adhered to, and that a plan, ■which would ruin half the colony, would not be Called a colonial policy. The hon. member then remarked on the necessity, if other taxes tool: the place of Customs, of t-eating litem in the same way, and appropriating three eights ofti.em to tho provinces He also made some observations on the necessity of consolidating the various loans, colonial or provincial, and making the interest and sinking fund of provincial loans a llrst charge on their proportion of ihe Customs revenue, 'the provinces were said to be in debt to the General Government; why, then, had extra taxation been imposed when the provinces could pay this debt, instead of allowing it to stand over ? But the iaet was, that the provinces did not acknowledge this deb'. Mr. Vogel then alluded to the uncertain position in which the provinces were placed by not having .he appropriations thev ,x----pecced. and quite! a letter which had been issued lately from the Provincial Treasury, Wellington, to the various road boards, sta'his that, in oonsequen 'e of of the provincial appropriations, tho boards could not expect, to receive the same amount as heretofore. After « few more remarks, Mr. Vogol moved his resolutions, stating that the definite proportion ment.oned in the first resolution was, of course three-eighths of the Customs. Mr. Kitzhehbeut said he was g ad that the hon. member had, at lar<t, found an opportunirv of disburdening his mind on this question, although he could not agree with the proposals. The proposition contained in the first resolution was going to be carried out this session for the firct time ; perhaps, however, the mover had accidentally omitted the "word " permanently." If so, the Government, although they could not r.ee their way to that object this session, would endeavour to attain it in a fuiuresession. Ho begged to contradict the notion that the Government had nnv antagonism to the province-*, and hoped that the hon. member (Hr. Vogel)., being an ardent searcher after truth, would accept that assurance The Government recognised the system of Provincial Government, and would do everything to render it efficient. With regard to the second resolution the Government- were agre"d with the hon. member as to the necessity of consolidating tHc 1 jans, colonial tmd provincial, but nothing eoui l be done this session. The Colonial Treasurer then made a few remarks on the third and fourth resolutions, and said that, supposing the unauthorised expenditure were authorised by the House, as he supposed it would be, the accounts stood thus on the Ist July Ihe provinces were then in debt to the General Government £!)S, 61-4; yet the Government did nut propose that that should be repaid by the provinces during the vi'ar, because it do ired that they should not be embarras•ed. The Colonial Treasurer then began to show that the provinces were being treated most liberaliv, and were going to have the three-eighths allotted to them this se»sio ". Mr. c. Waki> asVed whit would become of this debt meanwhile. There were three ways in which it might. be dealt with, but meanwhile he could not understand how this unauthorised expenditure was g.-ing- eventually to be charged. Th* keeping of it in suspense was outside any existing law. Mr. Fjizhkbeht said it was hoped that if the year was a prosperous one, after satisfying the provinces by giving them the three eighths, this debt would be wiped off out of tne surplus revenues, lie regretted that tho hon. members thought that tho Government were hostile to the provinces; on the contrary it viewed them •,vitVi'.ivo:ir, but was determined to get rid of tho evils arising' from the partner hip accounts kept between tho General and Provincial Government-. Mr. Ward it would bo mere businesslike to put the revenue at the amountr.t which the Govenmeut anticipated, and charge the £98,000 against it The hon. member als/ remarked on the linanci'-l policies ot the present and Itte Treasurer*, sayinir that, while that of the litter would trerit tho pro incej wish too much rigour, th it; of th« former appeared to be too friendly to them. Sir. Ward then spoke on tho relations between the Provincial and General Governments, and on the Surplus Revenues Act, main'mitinig that the Act was a very exce'lent one, and be replaced bv a better. ' 3 Mr Dick said that in Otajo the General Government had principally imde the lavish expenditu.u ek rged provinciallv, and had, theief'ui.. eredei this large debt. He he'd that- the provinces should not Jbe made responsible for it. Mr. J. Hall Baid. when the Government w.i< charged by tlio hon. member with making expensive contracts provineially charged, he ou»ht to b- av.aru that the Superintendent had been 'consulted with respect to them, and had beea asked if any eaviritri could be effected Major _Kiciiaud3oN' replied that the House had an opportunity of reducing the estimates every session Mr. Mooxhouse siid that the General Government was only doing its duty in giving tho provincial money to carry on reprodu tive works. He was 'dad to hear that the provinces were to have the threeeighths, but was not disposed to give up the surplus revenue, for ho was very sanguine about the future of tho colony. _ Mr. Dillon- Belt, hoped that the result of tbe-e discussions would be the separation of the general and provincial accounts; for at present thev w'-u-e unintelligible not only to the House but to tile GoTernment. Mr. Voqel was surprised that Mr. Ward and Mr. Moorhousc, and others, opposed his resolutions. Under these circumstances ho was uneerf iin whether be «hould press them to a division. He was aware that the financial system was a very complicated one, and that it arose in IHu! from the charges on loan, not being kept distinct from the provincial appropriations ;)jand he might say without egotism that at that time he suggested their separation. On the question being put, th- res'.lut'ons were negatived on the voices. IN" COMMITTEE. The House then w.vnt into committee on (he following Bills Lunatics, Besident Magistrate, Ju'tires of the Peace, Appeals from .Tubticca, and Resident Magistrates an 1 J uttbes of ;he P .;i'_o Acts Bepeal Bills. The House adjourned at 12 o eYc'c till 2 o'clock on Tueaday.