General Assembly of New zealand.

New Zealand Herald, Volume III, Issue 895, 26 September 1866, Page 6

General Assembly of New zealand.

♦ HOUSE OF KEPBESENTATTYES. TUESDAY, Sept. 11, 1566. The Speaker took the ohair at 2 o'clock, p.m. PRESBYTEBIAJ>' CHTTBCH OF OTAGO LANDS II ILL. The report of the Committee on this Bill was agreed to. The Bill was then read a third time and passed. PETITIONS. Mr. Duxon Bell presented a petition from several military settlers in the Waikato, praying that thoy should ha assured of their dischargee, and their land •honld be given to them at the earliest possible stage. The Hon. E. W. Stafford said that it was herdly necessary that the petition should be presented, inaimuch as at the present time the Government were taking the necessary steps to havo the petitioners fettled on their land. Mr. G-EOEQE Graham presented a petition from certain members of the Arawa tribe, praying for compensation for sorvicea rendered by them to tho Government. The Hon. E. W. Stasfobd recommended that the petition should lie on the table, but he would not pledge the Government to the full prayer contained ia it. After some conversation -with rogard to tho com. potency of the House to receive petitions praying for money, without the rjcommendation of his Exeellency the Governor. The Hon. B. W. Staffokd on behalf of the Governmont, recommended that the petition should lie on the table, and receive the favorable consideration of the House. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Geobob Graham also presented a second petition from certain members of the Arawa tribe. In answer to the Speakek, The Hon. E. W. Stavpo2D said that he could not recommend the petition. It contained languago which ought not to have been inserted in it. Mr. GraHAK said that the petition had been given to him for presentation by an lion, member of the Government. —(Laughter.) It was ruled that tho petition could not be received. v MAJOB M'DONNELIi'S FOBCE. Mr. Braxr asked the Hon. the Colonial Secretary —*' If it is true, as reported in tho newspapers, that Mr. Parris has been sent to Wanganui with instructions to control Major McDonnell's proceedings with regard to the subjugation of the rebel natives north ot Waitotara; and, if so, what arc the reasons for thns interfering with an ofiijer whoso operations have already had tho effect of inducing a lirgo number of natives to sue for peace and to surrender unconditionally." He had been moved to put the question on the notice puper in consequeneo of tho report that had appeared in the public press to the effect that through the interposition of Mr. Parris, the operations of ifajor McDonnell against the rebel natives had been put a etop to when such operations promised to result in signal success. He would read to the House what had appeared in the IVaiiganiu Times from its own correspondent:—" (From the correspondent of the Wanganui Times.) Camp Hawera, 31et August Your readers are already aware that Civil Commissioner Parris's peace negotiations have put a stop to any active movement for the present against the rebel strjnghold near Kotenisirae. They can easily imagine how annoyed and dispirited the whole force is at thus being checked and thwarted at the commencement of what promised to be a short and decisive campaign, resulting in the restoration of peace in this distriot, the punishment of tho rebels, and the permanent settlement of the men on their hardly earned land. The Vicillatiug action of tho Government, and their unjust and shameful treatment of the Taranaki Military Settlers has not only damped the ardor of the force, but has given renewed life and vigor to the tribe 3 dwelling betweon Otapawa and Patea river, who surrendered unconditionally to Major McDonnell, after their castigation at Pokaikai. They were then cowed by Major McDonnell's vigorous measures, but now express great legret that they did not hold out longer, when th=y ■would have got better terms from Parris. Indeed ih<i other day they detained two transport bullocks, which had strayed from cainp at Manawapou, and refused to give them under £lo utu. However, on being told by Major McDonnell that he would come and fetch them himself, they changed their minds and returned the animals. While the Civil Commissioner 13 delighting the hearts of the rebels about between Opunati and Waingongoro, entreating them to speak to him, which they steadily refuse to do, they, in their turn, are amusing themselves by firing, nearly every day, into the surveyors, ■who are worting in advance of camp, towards "Waingongoro. I can confidently assert, on the most reliable information, that they have not the remotest intention of giving in until they are thoroughly well licked. Everyone sees this clearly except Mr. Parris." If the report was false, the sooner it was contradicted by the Government the better, as such statements appearing in the papers were calculated to do great mischief. If, on the other hand, it was true, it was asces3ary that the Government should at once recall Mr. Parris, as by hi 3 interference he was doing iinjury both to the natives and the white people. He agreed as in all probability all honorable members -would agree, that it was the duty of tho Government .to adopt every means in its power to continue peace, : and prevent an outbreak; but when once active operations had commenced, the civil power should retire ; and no negocia-tions had with the rebels until they had been well thrashed, and sued unconditionally for peace. (Hear, hear.) How could wo expert able and energetic men would take command of our :&>rces, and proceed against the natives with any r-spiit, if their proceedings, wnen on tho eve of success, <were to be nullified and paralysed by the interference .of Civil Commissioners? Such proceedings only .tended ta prolong tho war, and make the natives .more difficult to settle. (Hear, hear.) He therefore -.trusted Major M'Donnell would be left to carry on tis operations against the natives without interiupition, and he had no doubt, from the gallantry and •energy of that officer, ihat (if unfettered) he would .soon reduce the natives corth of tho Waitotara to .•subjection, and restore permanent peace to the ■district. (Hear, hoar.) The Hon. E. W. Stafford said that tho Government was indebted to the hon. member for putting the question on the paper, beciuso it gare the Government an opportunity of dispelling doubts, or lather misapprehensions that existed with regard to the actions of tte Government. Ho would conjure the hon. member never to pelieve anything he ehould *ee in the press. He (ilr. Stafford) had never yet— and that]was a sweeping assertion—known the actions O.f the Government to bo commented on strictly ia accordance with facts. Sometimes there was some truth i*i these comments, aud at other times there ■was notie whatever. With regard to the rsport in question, he would remark that there was no foundation whatever for it. Mr. Parris had not been sent with any instructions relating to the operations of Major McDonnell;, he had gone home to his usual place of residence, Hew Plymouth. THE CLA7M3 OF WILLIAM KIXG. Mr.FiTzGsKALT> asked the Government—"Whether It is tho intention of the Government to take into consideration the claims of Y/illiam King and other friendly natives for the losses which they have experienced from the troopa under the command of Major-Geceral Chute, in his recent expedition between Taranaki and Wangiinui." The Hon. E. W. Stafford, in reply, said that the Government had anticipated the question of the hon. member for Ohrischurch, and were now inakin™ , an inquiry as to the losso3 sustained by William King. BBSIDENT MAGISTRATES' HILL. "The Hon. John Hall moved the second reading •of the above Bill, the effect of which wns to consolidate ;a number of ordinances relating to the proceedings •of the Resident Magistrates in civil cases. Uβ would •not ask the House to go into Committee until Thurs.day. Mr. James O'Neill supported tho second reading •of the Bill, and expressed a hope that tlio G-overn-.aaent would make it as perfect as possible, and, .above all, to set at rest the question as to whether ■.two Justices of the Peace shall have the same power ,t* a Resident Magistrate. After some discussion, the Bill was raad a second itime, and referred to a select Committee. JCSTICE3 OF THE PEACE. The Hon. John* Hall moved tho second reading •of the BUI. The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to 3>e committed on Thursday next. - APPEALS JPKOJI JCSTIOES BILL. This Bill was read a second time on the motion of the Hon. J. Hall, and ordered to bo committed on Thursday next. J

PRINCES-STREET UESEUVE3 (dTTNEDIN) BIXT.. ' Thiß Bill was read a second time on the motion of ■ tho Hon. Mr. Stafford, and ordered to be com- : mitted on Thursday next. STEAM NAVIGATION , BILL. Tho committal of this Bill was postponed, and made an order of tho day for Thursday next. StAEIXE BOAKD HILL. The House went into Committee on the above Bill. SUl'REill! COUBT AND KEOISTKATION OFFICE 3 (FEES) BILL. This Hill was read a third time and passed. CBOWSr GRANTS ACTS CONSOLIDATION HILL. The House went into cominitteo on the above mu. UII.LSCONSIDF.EED BY THE tTI'EU IIuL'SE. _ The Speaker announced that ho had received a message from the Legislative Council, informing him that tho Council had agreed to the Oyster Fishery Act and the Representation Amendment Act—the Utter with some alterations which they prayed the House of Representatives to consider. WAYS AND MEANS. Tho House then went into Committee of Ways a °Mr. Cbosiue Wabd rose to move tho following resolutions : " 1 That regard being had to tho existing burdons on tho people of this colony, it is not advisable to impose any additional taxation which can bo avoided. "3. That, in the opinion of this Committee, tho preseut financial condition of the colony does not warrant a resort to extraordinary taxation in order to provide for the necessary expenditure ot the General and Provincial Government. " 3 That, in the opinion of this committoe, direct taxation in any form must operato moro or les injuriously on tho future of the colony, and unso r no circumstances ought to be adopted, except for the purposo of relioving undue pressure from existing methods of collecting revenue. . " 4. That, accordingly, until such a revised tarift of Customs Duties as the Legislature may in this session think fit to adopt, shall havo been for a suflicient period in operation, it is inexpedient to make good tho supply to Her Majesty by means of stamp He would confine his arguments to the result of these resolutions if passed as stated in the lust of the eorie3, and he would havo to ask the indulgence of the House in going at some length into tho general nueation of finance. Ho thought there was a certain mystery in both tho financial stutomouts that had been made about tho dealings of Provincial Governments, about that wonderful £315,001> that was promised to them. This eum was to bo put in tho Appropriation Act to bo voted by Provincial Councils and he understood that it was intonded as the equivalent to the throe-eighths of tho Customs Revenue, and if that fell off, it would decrease, if it grew larger, it would increase Ho understood also that ifthorevenuo from the ethor departments was increased largely the Provinces would also get the surplus arising from them, and he hoped that if it was not 60 he would be corrected at once, as a largo section of th 3 House was very anxious on the subject, and the hon. the Colonial Treasure's proposition would very little diU'<;r from those of hi 3 predecessors. He saw that in the current account between the Oeueral and Provincial Governments, eitjht of the latter wore brought in debt to tho former for £02,000, and th.it they had received some .£IO,OOO less than the throoei"hths of the Customs. Ho wauted the Committee to understand that if this was the oso, tho Provinces, with exception of Auckland, were henvily in debt to the General Government, and that that debt would be a first charge agiiinst what they were to receive in tho next year. He must next msumo that thi. supplementary expenditure of the past year would bo treated in an unusual way ; that was to sum up the amount and proportion it against the provinces. He thought that it was exceedingly hard to niuke such a sudden change as thie, aud that the Provinces were to bo brought in debtors to a very large amount, which the present year would scarcely soo them clear of. He did not o'bjeet to it if due notice had been given of it, but he thought so sudden a change unjust. Ho would ask the Committee neit to follow him through those items of the Estimates on which no information had been given to fie House. They hud heard ■nothing yet of tho finance of tho defend! of the Colony' and h id mon-ly a lump sum placed before them. He must put down Militia and Volunteers at tho same amount that they were stated in tho previous statements, and the Committee would b« called upon to vote that sum without a word of explanation. Then they had heard nothing of the regiment of soldiers that was to be retained here, and they could not pretend to keep them and utilize them without meeting those derannds on which their retention wis contingent. He called upon (hose gentlemen who lust year cried so loudly for self-relianee, to explain this matter, which was iiot only a financial, but political puzzle to the Colony. He was willing to believe, however, that the3e troops were to be retained without expense, but ho warned the House that this matter was left in. doubt, and that an explanation would have to be given eru long, or the Cominitteo •would not be satisfied, the House would not be satisfied, and most of aU the Imperial authorities would not be satisfied. He next cimo to tho proposed making of £7,000 out of the postal department, and he would like to know why no explanation of this small sum had been made—the ingenuity which would 6crape £7,000 out ot that department might be able to squeeze double that amount. Then thoy had suggested to them a wonderful fund of some kind, negatively affirmel in the fact of £100,000 being repaid by the ond of December by the Province of Auckland. Tho hon. gentleman ou£[ht to have given somo explanation as to thie, and yet when asked upon it ho gave as indirect an answer as had ever been given by a Minister. (Rear, hear.) Ho wanted, too, to know why, two or three years after the confiscated lands ought to have been a soureo of revenue, tho Government did not say whether they expected anything from them or not. Could they not be carried into account against a prohibit futuro ? Somo of them were of such a character that they , must be available within a year or two. and as tho hon. gentleman (tho Colonial Treaeurer) had spoken of expenditure three and four years to come, why had ho not brought these assets into account against it ? Ho believed that there were lands in tho Province of Taranaki which would cover tho liabilities of tho Colony for the Treasury Bills during the years that they had to run. (Hear, hoar.) Ho was quite in accord with the hon. gentleman in charging en the ordinary revenue expenses that had before f illen upon tho loan, but tho Committee would like to know over what period tho3O charges would extend. If tho militar3' settlers had been put upon their lan:i£ a year ago, nothing like the magnitude of this charge would havo been arrived at— (hear, haar,) —and ho would caution the Government that this matter o£ settling these men was that which gave the greatest dissatisfaction to tho part of the Colony from which ho oume. jfe hud looked up and down through tho Statement and tho Estimates and found no explanation of this, or any proof that there would not be a like charge upon the Estimates ofnertyear. Ho did not begrudge their pay to tho men who v/ere now fighting, but iic did certainly to thoeo of UiG Ist Waikato unci 3rd Wuikuto, who ought long ago io havo been put upon their land. Th'-rc were about a thousand mc-n who were thus J getting pay for doing nothing; they would still be three months before they got tlioir land, after which they would have to bo rationed ibr a twelvemonth. The oxpeiiae for the three months would be over £20,000, and the rationing for a year .£30,000 ; then there wero regimental ettilf and surveys, amounting to £90,000, so that in order to got a thousand men upon their land, it would cost tho colony £140,000, besides tho land which was yiven to them, aud which would mako the amount £190,000. Now, he would say to the Defence Minister that he ought to go tothoso men and offer them £25 per man, aud they would be glad to take it and go to another part of the colony and be useful citizens. (Hear, hear, and laughter). This would be a saving of £100 per man, and the land which was worth 20s per itere. The House hud no right to stand this constant procrastination with men who were no moro uso to the colony than a swan on a turnpike road. lie must now come to the question of tho necessity fir imposing Stamp Duties, and he must call the attention of the Committee to the reason for which it was asked to impose those duties—to keep up tho revenue in order to provido for tho necessities of the Government, and that the country should not borrow in order to pay three-eighths to tho provinces. The honorable gentleman had brought down a scheme of finance which gave £318,000 to the provinces, and he (Mr. Ward) felt perfectly sure that the hou. gentleman would easily find this £-50,000 without new taxation. He thought that if the Government did not take great carfl befero they put an additional tax on tho people for so small a sum, thoy would be met by a very strong manifestation of the opinion of the people. (Hear, hoar). A very large machinery would be required to raise these duties which would necessitate the levying of a sum much larger than was sot down in

oxaer to arrive at the nett.amourit.bf |e would now ask tho CommUea to solutions, and although he might not ask it to agree wVth all of thorn, hi would in tlic pnnc;ple they Tnunciated that taxation, m.gbt prevent immigration. He thought notl ug o Customs Kevenue, as they W»®t looked upon a? taxes-t" oh, oh")--butthe Englishman had a name for an Income Tax or a Stamp Ja* which, this colony would do well to avoid. The cplony had to depond on foreign countries far capital and men and he considered it would bo most destructive if they closed the door to them hy hoisting their banner to the winds with << I his is_a taxed country" written on it. The hon, the Colonial Treasurer said that it this tar realised more than was anticipated, it would afford a good, opportunity next Session of reducing tho burdens on the necessaries of life. If it were so, the hon. gentleman ehould not defer that to n e *t Session but those burdens sliould at once be lightened (Hoar j: hear, ?rom the Government Benches). But the hon. ' gentleman was putting a hypothetical case, and declaring what ho would dp if such ataing arose, merely to raise a popular cry, which ho could only call bunkum, as he must also calHHe resolutions of the hon. member for Parnell (Mr. Whitaker) which proposed a property tax. Why,,a property tax would press upon those who could least ailord, email mon who had only gained a freehold a day or two before Tho Stamp Tat would also press most heavily on these men—these small farmers or yeomen who wore already the most heavily taxed peoplo in tho Colony, in haying to pay road rates, education rates, and in fact every tax that was imposed. Thoso wero tho men who wore to bo tho bone and sinew of the colony not of Cantebrury alone, but ovory part of it, and. if they imposed further taxes upon thom, they would Bhut tho gates to tho progress of tho colony. He deprecaed tho viow that attempted to apply tho practice ot an old country to a uew, as this yracUeal view was worth all *ho hypotheses of philosophers. Ho now had to propose his fourth resolution, and if, on considering the Tariff, they found that it could net bo so adjusted as to equalise the burdens, and still raiso as largo an amount, them tho Hon. the Uqloniul Treasurer might lia»-e pood reason for coming down with a proposition of Stamp duties. The hon. member for the Bay of Islands (Mr. Carleton) had urgued that Auckland would bo bankrupt unless sho got the full three-eigth.s of the Customs. He was sorry to think that Auckland should ho in such a position, hut the c:i«o of Wellington was different, and if the province was (jo careless of tho interests of tho South for tho sake of a few paltry thousands as to impose a direct tax uppn it by her votes, then sho need no longer look for tho iace and of friendship which tho South, had given her in years past, lie would tell Wellington that there would bo nothing so cuttm,? asimdor of tho two islands aa to see Auckland and Wellington voting on the sime sido of that House in. that debate. He was astonished that tho Govcrnmont hadmade this question a Slinisterial question which was. in fact nc hindrance to their General Goyernmwht policy. He thought they wore wrong in that or in calling over to their siilo of the House ai.iy monibors whose private opinions would induce them to prevent taxatior on their conatitumits. Thoy had then: a higher dutj than that of any governmental fueling -. thoy had th.f of tho people to look after, And. if thoy did nol do it, they would stand wrong before thl country The Colonial Treasurer might have obviatod this bj a scratch of his pen in altori.m* the Customs Bevonut fir tlie coming year from .£850,000 to £000,000. I the Government would dp this, or give any indicator of a desire to consider it, ho would withdraw liii resolutions. The hon. member then moved the fourtl resolutions, and eat down amidst loud applause. Mr. FiTZiiEiuiEitT characterised tho motion of th hon. gentleman as a very proper one, but at tho sarui time ono that could only b.u interpretei as a " bid fo oilice." [Mr. Ward denied this, as ho knew that In had only a minority with him on the question o Separation, and tho Hoube could not return him t;i office.] Well, under any circumstances tho hon gentleman had made a most profound and strikin; statement considering tho weakness of his case, ani ho (Mr. Fitzherbert) had to meet hitn unprepared and like David take a smooth pehblo out of the ever flowing river of truth, arid smitt? his opponent. Hi hou. friend's first rortuirk boro upon tho want o cloar/ies3 in statin;: the dealings of tho Gonoral Go vernment with tho provinces, arid had for theirflffjc that the provincod would nut receive the threo-oighth of Hie customs. He had tried to show haw thu pro vincos worn indebted to a largo amount, and that th provisions of the Surplus Kevenue Act would not b carried out. Ho (Mr. Fitzherbert) would ask if til Government had aaid anything about the provision of thai Act not being complied with, and would sa; that there was no mistiness, about the returns on th subject that had boon laid before tho House. If ther was any mistiness in tho matter, ..it was in tho law and as soon a* he saw an opportunity, whether i.i or out of office, lie would try to have it altered (Hoar, hear.) Wa3 thero any mistiness in th proposal to enact by law that so urieli should b paid over ite nvime in mettwin to the provinces and he would ask the hon. gentleman if any pro vious Appropriation Act had delegated three eighths of tho Customs' revenue to be paid ovo month by month ? It tho Government hud no bo tied their hands, the hon 7 gentleman's argumeu might have had eomo effect, and thero would hay been nothing to prevent a Treasurer sending dowi at any moment to a Superintendent, and saying tha thero would bo no payment of tho three-eighths The Govornmont had divined, before the tolegrap] wires had (lathed the news, thufc the great province of Canterbury and Otago doaired the three-eighths and did not trust itself to have the power of i.m pounding those funds, but proposed that its hirid should bo tied, and yet his hon. friend said that ther was an air of niistinoss still to bo cleared up. Th hon. gentleman said that tho mistiness existed in th oustanding partnership accounts between the Gone ral Government and the province?, but he wouli point to the Surplus Revenue Act, which was still h existence, and that tho Government must go by. I tho Treasurer should make a demand against i Superintendent for an outstanding account, cm should put it against those thres-eighths, the Supor intondont could write back and say that unless th Appropriation Act was carriod out, he would b obliged to havo recourse to other inoasurej, Ther was no ■mala Jidci in thi3. The present Govornraenl saw the absolute necessity for giving tho throe eighths of the Customs, and intended to give it. Mr. C. Waud : Will my hon. friend Bay that i: throe words ? Tho hon. Mr. FitzheuivEkt : I will answer th hon. gentlem/in by a question. If I say "yes 1, w|l my hon. friend give tho Govomment his support (Laughter.) Mr. C. Ward : The hon, gentleman to pu tho question to tho HousO. I will hear lyh'it has t bo said on the subject, and my vote will be found o ono side or the other. (Laughter.) Tho hou. W. FtTzmjitiiEUT had put tho quostioi to try liis hon. friend, and .as he would not givO direct answer he must ask him. to let him (Mr. Fitz herbcrt) eUte his arguments in his own way. Th Customs were nor to be at the caprice of the'govern ment, but to be fixed by Att, although in in iking u[ the accounts with the "provinces dt- tho end of th yeir they would bo found to bo indebted to the OX tent of some £00,000. (Mr. Croebie Ward under stood tho lion, gentleman at last,). Tho next pqin was the retrenchment On the defeneo estimates. Oi this subject the hon. rrant'leraan had midc remark! depreciatory of the volunteers■ j but, hotvever inucli they might bo applicable to the South, tfcsy wore no to tho North. It wa3 -a fair complaint that the amount for defence was stilted in a lump aum, and no doubt the Defence Minister would give all thtist details th;it wen) necessary when the time came. Thi hon. gentleman had made muuh of the retention of i regiment in New Zealand, but he would ask wai there no difference between an army of ten thousanc men, and one regiment ? And as to the necessity foi expending £50,000 on tho natives to insure its."retention without charge, the account would show that o great deal more w:is expended annually on that race. His hon. friend Came on after that to sdjue questions ot revenue, and alluded fo £7,000 of postal revenue" saying that un explauation of it should be given. It was scarcely worth explaining-, but ho wqxM give them. It would be remembered that the Postal Committee h;«l sent in recommendations, and it was on these that thn calculation was based, and these recommendations would be Qmbodi;;d in a bill. His lion, friend asked when was the. £100,000 advanced to Auckland to be repaid ? This lip might say, that lie had Already expressod his opinion that it would bo repaid by the end of the year, and that if a ioaa wore asked for by that province thp Government would support it on good cause being shown. Then tho next point was that the confiscated lands had not been bronght into account. There was no one out of tho Northern Island, who was so cogni- ■ zant aa his hon. friend of the rottenness of any each.

sourco of revenue, and yet he copiplained that it had. not. been stated us an aeset % the Government, and he might refer the hon. gentleman to his report on. those lands to prove the uncertainty of the extent that could be used. In speaking, of military settlers, the hon. gentleman had given very judicious advice on some points to the committee, attd he might say that the Govorrimeni, would do its best to settle the men. and if they could, dp it for the amounts proposed on the Estimates, the colony would .be well out of a difficult job. It must be romembered that; It was not sufficient to say to those men ■ —" There is your land ; go and take it;" but it must bft surveyed and measured out t<s. itiern in allotments. Was that the scheme which the hon. gentleman had ebplly proposed that'jthe Government ahould compound, with these men. for £25 a man, a scheme which ho would bring in for colonising the Northern Island, if he had got that seat which he had made a bid for ? It was to depopulate tho North Island, and pay the debts of the Government by compounding fpr them at five shillings in the pound. Next his hop. friend, came to the question of the starup tax, and interpreted :the statement of the Treasurer on the subject as implying that, the stamp tax was to be proponed simply u> enable the. Government to give more to the provinces. This was n no way expressed ip his statement, and so far was it from being the intention of the Government, the hon. gontleman might he convinced by what he now said, that if the provinces got nq more than, on.oeiglith of the Customs, the Government would still; propose a stamp tax, believing it to be the foundation of a good and wholesome system of taxation. With regard to the Customs revenue, he would s:iy that, us soon as tho opportunity offered by , taxation in another direction, the (joveriimont would m:ike any reduction in that direction that they possibly could. Aβ for stiying tho arguments wore more bunkum addressed to the working men, lie could tell the hon. gentleman that the proposition was never directed towards them* but towards those poor men who earned their living without the. hard work of their hands. But take the whole population of the country at 200,000 and divide tho £50,000 proposed to bq raised by those stain pa, and then let the committeu see what the burden would be per annum. £50,000 was to be raised in nine months, which Would give 7s 6d a year per head, and he did not think that would embarrass the South. He thanked tiio committe for the attontion they had given him. (The hon. gontleman. was loudly cheered pa sitting down.) Mr, VoftEL, in moving the adjournment of the debate, siid he would bring forward a motion for Insular Separation. The House then resumed and immediatsly after wards adjourned at 12'20 a.m. WEDNESDAY, SBPTBSijiEE 12,18«6. The Si-baker took the chair at five o'clock. EAST COAST NATIVES. Mr. OfiMOKD asked tho Colonial Secretary-*— " Whether or not the lands of the natives lately in rebellion on the East Coast of the Northern Island, in the district situate between Ea?t Cape and Mania Peninsula, ai'o intended to bo made liable for the ex.pondituro incurred by the colony in suppressing the insurrection within, that district. Also, whether it is proposed to uoknowlodsjo the service-s of the native allies of that district by giving them ' substantial rewards' for the numorou3 and signal services they have rendered to tlie colony during the disturbinces that have taken place in. that district; and whether such roward is proposed to be made by the payment to them of. a sum of money, and if so, whether the Sarao U intended to bo made a charge upon the district in question, or be borne as a general charge upon the qolony." The Hon. E, W. Stafford said that he. would have preferred if this question had been put on the paper in the form of a notieo of motion. The prosent Government, and indeed, every Government were (jf opinion, that native disturbances arose, some endeavour should be made to recoup any consequent expenso from tho property of the hostile natives, but tho Government could not hold out any hope, of an early of substantial return from the lands on tho East Coast. The Government wero -alea of opinion that friendly natives should, be rewardei from the same source. . COAL FIELDS. Mr. BALLasked the Colonial Becrotar,y,—" Wliother the Geological Director, Dr. Hector,, has reported on his inspection: of the coal fields in the North ; and if so, wliother it is. tho intention of the Government to lay such report on. the table of this House." Tho Hon. E. W , . Staffokl) said that there had been a report nnido on this subject by Dr. iteotor, which had bes:j incorporated with hi? repoit. on tho other Coal fields of tbt) colony, iu cpnsoquouc? of a. despatch from tho Secretary for such a return to be laid before the Imperial Parliament along with reports as to coal fields in pthor parts of her Ifrije.aty'a dominions. The report was now in tho hands of the printers. Mr. W Alices askod tho Hon, J;. Hall, "Whether it is the intention of the Government to take off the duty on iron-standards and other ironmongery employed in wiro-foncing, and whether there is any hope that such duties already paid may be ultimately remitted to tho partios who paid them." Tho Hon. Mr, BrouilON-D said, lw-cquM hardly at the present timcstalo the intentions of the Government on this point, as it would be premature: to do so. With regard to the duties referred to no hope could be held put of their ultimate remission. UE\y hills. Tho following bills brought down from the Upper House were read a. first time, " Tho llesident Magistrates and Justices of tho Peaco Repeal," and " Tho Intestate Estates Act Ainondmdnt Bills." SPIRITUOUS LIQUORS SALE BILL. On the motion of tlio Hon. E. W, Stapfoed the following bill was introduced and road a first time, '• An Act to amend an Ordinance for regulating the sale of Fermented and Spirituous Liquors, passed by the Governor and late Legislative Council of the Colony, Bisssion Three, number Twenty-five." nit.. MOUATt's LAS'D grant. On the motion of Mi AniiNsos tho following resolution was agreed to. " That there be laid on the Table copips of any correspondence or other papers relative to giving a grant of land to Dr. Mouat*, late Principal Medical Officer to the troops in Efew JCcaland." JJEW IUIJCS. On the motion of Mr, Oableton the following bills Wero brought in and read a first time, " An Act to amend the Land Clauses Consolidation, Act, 186.%'* and "An, Act to make provision for tho S v .nal Settlement of Land Claims,"POSTAL SERVICES. Mr. MA.eAN'I)UH!W in moving ; —" That in the "opinion of this House, it is inexpedient to continue the Subsidies i'.ot Steam Postal Services, after the expirs. tion of e-visting Contracts, excepting in respect of tho conveyance of tho Enlijli mails,"'s-iu'd' that after tho full discussion on this subjocti which had taken, placo on a proviouo occasion, it wpuld hardly be necessary to Say much. Ho wao of opinion that there no necessity to subsidize the steamers carrying tho inter-provincial mails, as at the present time they could without any subsidy , in consequence of tho* increase of traflic. There was no occasion to have such frequent postal communications botweon tho Provinces, in consequence of t,ho establishment of tlio Elactric Telegraph, He miglit also add t at the Colony' «OuW Bavo -fiGOOO jf Auckland could wait one day longer l °x the Knglish Mail, by having it brought by way of Otago. The ifon Ji Hall said that he was aware that the Postal Servicos were very cost'.y, and the osponso pf thora had been much diminished year by year during the Inst few years. He was glad to see . this resolution brought forward, because any Government required the ! support of the House in : this matter, but he could not assent to the resolution ; fis';it went too far. Tho fact was thatthe hon, mem- •! her could not bo aware how much the inter-provin-cial steamers were occupied in distributing the English mails. One of the first duties of a Govern - merit was to provide regular, if not frequent, postal communication. He would move as an amendment —" That excepting in respect of the conveyance of the English mail it will be inexpedient to continue subsidies for steam, postal service after expiration of tho present contracts, if equal accommodation cannot be obtained withouc seriously increasing the prosent. rato of subsidy. Mr.. Dillon- ijeit objected to tho amendment, as it mqant nothing definite. JVIr. Vogsl objected to the amendment and the resolution, and thought it would bo sufficient tot riegativo the original motion M-iijoi , Oaurill was of opinion that the system of eubsidizing the coastal steamers was a bad one ; for it was. very costly and was no longer necessary. At the present timu it was not unusual to see two oteamers going to the same piace,;only one carijing a. mail, and he believed that the postal service could >o carried oa aow without subaidiea. j

".Mr. O'iNEitt suggested that^ptk,the resolution, mdamehdnient. shbuld;ba .Withdrawn,, .isthe report >f thevPbstal.Committee wPuld be shortly ipefprevthe Souee; making this among .other, recommendations, ;hat the Napier and laranaki boats should be jontinued. . . ;. Mr;. Burns said that, he .was certain that u. .a : certain sum were paid on eibh letter and neW|ipaper to bpata carrying them, instead of an annual subsidy to particular companies, it would, bo found far more economical. After some further discussion, Sir.. MacaStdbew: rose to etpres^.hie.-willingness to ■withdraw his. resoliitlpn, as the Government would not assent to it. Mr. Pateksox said that.it ms abspTutely neceseary for Borne: of the boats to 1 oare .the ports of Now Zealand on a particular day, and this was what the subsidy was paid for.. Hβ did not think the mails ehould.be left to be taken by cliance boats. Mr* Mooruouse said thatjthe ilail boats were excepted. The Hon. E. W. SriFFoaß said, tliat before the motion wag withdrawn h.> wished to say a few -words. He then proceeded to reply to some of the: remarks of Mr. Burns, stating.thtitit was rather extraordinary if there were boats ready t* undertake the carrying of mails, without subsidies, they had not tendered to carry them, when tendere were invited a thort time a CT o.. The motion and amendment were then withdrawn. WE3TEA.ND RKPIiESENTXTION BILX. M!r. .ftfooßKotrSE in moving foe loave to bring in a bill to increase the representation of Westland, called attention to the large population qf that district, and the large ehare of revenue paid by it. He would j leave the details to be settled by the House. It

might be said that, it was late m tho Session to do this, but the Financial Statement was only made on the. sth September and the House was only& now roally beginning work. Mr* C. Wabd seconded the motion. Mr. N'eWma:n suggested as an amendment thatjtho bill should be for the purpose of: adjusting the representation of the colony. The Province of Auckland, and particularly his district, wanted more members. The Speaker ruled! that the amendment was not in order. Mr. O'SJEliil. asked whether the substitution of the word "Middle Island" for "Colony" would be agreed to. Ho then went on to siiy that he believed the motion had been brought forward by the member of Westland, so that he might get a cheer from his constituents. He then went on to say that he thought it was most unfair that tho Middle Island should have more members than the Northern Island, The Hon. E. W. Statfobd said that on a question of this kind he thought the opiiiion of the Government shoulol. be takon beforehand. There were no doubt groat inequalities-in- the representation, and when the Representation Bill was going through the House last Seesion he had offered to make some alterations in it, and had himself proposed to have two members for Westland, but the House was desirous of passing the Bill, as it then -was. The question, however, should not be brought forward iu this fragmentary manner, but as a. whole under tho sanction and authority of the Government. It was a matter for argutnent on what representation Should be based; whether on numbers, interests, property, or revenue, or alt or any of these things, and the question required much consideration. It would disturb the representation o£ the whole colony, if anj district had another member given to it, and nothing of the kind should bis done except on the. eve of t general eleqtion. He would prefer a ra3plution tc tho effect that the whole question should bo considered by the Government during the recc33. Mr. Reynolds thought that the question ought tc be considered during this session, ft might be saic that there would be no time, but the.membera shoult make time, and sit for sis months instead of three/i i three months was not long enough. (Oh, oh.) Mr. BeSwick supported the motion, lir, PiLtOiT Bevl denied tlie proposition, that n( Bill of this kin;d ehould be brought in, except by thi Government, and did not see why tho House shouli not at any time assent to a redijtehution of the re presentation, if good cause could ba ebpwn for i change by any private member. He should therefon support the motion. > Mr. BEi:i:CHiMP said that, the Preaiier had sail 'that if another representative was given to any disItriefc the representation of the other, districts wouk be diininished. Tho hon. member then made a sup ' position that We3tland had drained other parts o; : the Colony of their inhabit-ints,, and said that he die: not. think that the people who had gone there should be unrepresentod. Mr. Georoe GaA&Aii said that, ha hoped before another member Was given to the South, the would be represented in tho House.. AEr. VPGEi. said that tho Bill at any rate to bo read a first time ; for his part, ha ha i not seen it yet, and did not know but what he should app'ove of it. If, for iasfince, it proposed nipre membor3 ehould be given to plaee3 which required them, and some of those " useful, commoditi-33 " taken awey from those places like Tawaaki, whieh had too matiy. Mr. John Wxlliamsos , said that he would certainly opposo this motion, as ho thought tho question oi representation should bo reconsidered as a whole, The proper course would have been to bring forward a rosolation, so that hon. members might have made amendments in it. The Hon. Major RichaUdsos' said he would not oppose the first reading of this Bill, In reply to an hon. member, he would say thsfc ho did not know whv some, hori; members delighted to cast reflectipna on "Taranaki ■ which through having been the theatre of war had gone through much suffering: The hon. member then mentioned various reasons why the question should be considered as a whole. Mr. SIpoKHOUSE. in replying, said he was surprised to hear that Ministers thought it wa3 of no importance that a district having 50,000 inhabitants and several towns, one of, them as large as Wellington, should have only one meinber. He should like to know how many people there were in Iranklyn Newman's district), andhowmanytownsthcrewerein.it. (ilr. Newman made no reply). The hon. in9mbcr then proceeded to support the Bill at some tength. One great argument in favor of it was that there was no part of the colony so miserahly represented. Jjeave was given to introduce the Bill, and it was read, a iirst time. • • •"' Ajmotkhkd Debate. diStkict boards Bui. The Hon. Major KicirAßDsox in supporting the Bill said that he thought that it was of great import anee to thp Province of New Zealand that it should be passed. Tho kon. member then began. to ; read letters and despatches written about the time zixi constitution was given, to New Zealand, to show that in them the establishment of municipalities had been foreshadowed, when tho population of the colony had become sufficiently forge. Major Richardson ' then began to advance various arguments in favor of the Bill. It might have a great many clause?, but there was no necessity to trihg them into operation in every province, altogether it was a very fine child and had taken five inembers to bring it in, and he believeil that it would work well wherever it was brought into operation. Mr. Cos said that the Bill had been so much altered that he could no longer recognise it as a.child of his. Ho would, however, support the second reading, as he believed the Bill would apply to the Province of Otago, and. he hpped alterations would be made in it in Committee. Mr. CiipSßiß W.V ll i>i after saying that he hoped any questipns he might ask .relative to tho Bill would be answeredi not by other questions., but by information, if he put them in a humble and proper spirit, ?aid that the Bill appeared to him to be a. most com plicated oho and not suited to the circumejfarices of this Colony. ' The ton. member then proeeeded to state his objeetions to certain clauses of the Bill, and concluded by saying that it reminded him of a man in one of Hogarth's pictures: who had an enorinouß engine made foiy tho purpose of drawing a cork but of a bottle. • . Blr. Bcsfir-v objected to the Bill as. being too complicated; he, moreover, believed )t would be a dead letter. What was wanted was a simple Bill by moans of which justice would be don,e to tha outlying districts; Mr. Vogel said in replying, tkat the Bill was no longer.requisite in prder that its. object might be carried out, ft had been originally intended that the Bill should be brought in. for Otago alone, but at the. request of some of tho - Canterbury member* it. tad. been brought in as a. general Bill. Jt w.ould, however, only be applied in any provincL 1 , if it desired it This conduct of the : Canterbury members he. thoughttoo bad; AhptheX recommendation of:the ..Billwas, thatthe clauses need not be brought-, into operation in any province. Mr. Vbgel. übip. .inada Bomeother remarks m reply to hon. aaambers.. , „ TJie second leading was agreed to.

..; .~. cbjiirrrTEE ov ways and mcbans. ,;.■:.■ " v .;-..■■..'■';■ ■'.'.■,.■;■'./■'STAMP DITTIES. :■■■■".: ■.•_'■:■,-■'■■■■■ -■ ■■■-. >;' The Hon. E.tW. Stafford, in■ moving that the * House go intb Committee of Ways and Means,., said tKattbe'Stimp'Dutiesliad been before the House. .■■'■"- iitr-'-a .week, and be hoped that hon;. members... •would : ■ eee their way to coining:to Bome.decisipn to-morrow.: The" Housei 'then'went into Committee of ."Ways and : Mr. .YbOEli ijafter remarkingithat he thought this !■'■' question shpiild be iully diecuesed) said: that., he regretted to see the practice Government appeared to begetting .intoof till the end .of the''Session ■ such;as ra the present Caae "was being doiie with-theiUuties; the Tariff and ; the questioiis' of the retention of. the troops,.and of the confiscated fends. The.lion; member then pro-? ■■ cfeeded tosomment on tKespeecEof.the,hon.member at; the :h>ad of th>.'.Government;.'stating; that.it.haU. ■ not contained any.aUusioa.Vo>he factthjicthe Amencan rebellion .was diie to the attempt madeby Jhe ■ Fn"liah to impose a Stamp tax ah'djthiit: Jit:.wa s : based ■■■■ on the faiiacy that the credit of the /.Colony would be . . improved by additionalitaiation.. '/The hon;; member, ■,■"■" . then commented bh':the.speech madebythe. Co?omal. Treasurer, and:''said'"thafie had noticed -on 'many . occasions .thatthai',member sneered..at the; Provinces, and prp.vinoiai .institutions. , "W-ith regard to the budget, he. was .of opinion that the. Colonial Treai- : surer had increased the proposed expenditure abbye '. tho. estiinate'/of the late .Tre , asureri..for. althpng'h.h'e had taken 0ff'£33,00.0 :rprn.the : DefenceEstimates.hehad. added £o6iOOQ to.be placed;, on loan;, Mr. Yogelthea., went on l ,artaa§&r . .'ment -with respect to; : tiiev3-Stha .was'unsatlsfactory,. .. and that the speech, madeby the Treasurer in reply, to the member for: Avon. (lirJ Ward) -was of; top

jocose a character, add was! not, a fitting reply to, that member's remarks,' 1 He looked fiipon the ■ Government us the one succeeidmg; to the 'Weld.. Governiiient, but he was unaware whether, the inem.-., bcr at the head Of tKe Government '■■■'had;- adopted the policy of the or whether the ■ latter; .had adopted that :of the Premier, ■ With' 'regard; to the Colonial Treasurer'a reply to'the remarks: of, the; member for Avon (Mr, iVard) with tespect to the.. letention of onfiqregiment, they wrere top flippant. The Colonial Treasurer had compared, some...of,.the Middle Islanders to Turkeys, frightened at a red rag .-,,-. but the Weld policy was, that -not a. single soldier should be. retained, I?or his part he was of a contrary, opinion,, arid i-p tie believed were other members. ..'.Miv Yogel said that: he thought the remarks, of the.. eplpnial Treasurer as. to theicpnfiseated, lanils.nipat unsatisfiictory. As to the Stamp Duties he thought it a niistaUe that they had been inade.a Government question, but he denied the right of any member. to : ypte With this or any Government 1 On a question of taxation' merely for the sake of keeping it in office ; iiot even if the Colonial Treasurer was a second. Gladstone, and every hair of the Postmaster General. was a: Eowiand Hill, Oil every other question, a member might' vote with a Government tp keep it in' ofliuey but qevttiinly not when addditionai and :uttj necessary taxation was proposed. He looked onthe . imposition of Stamp Duties as being unnecessary, beiiiuse, wltile the revenue was decrea3ingr> the expenditure Was increasing, and because any additional revenue to bo dprived f.rom stampi could easily be rabed by Treasury Bills,. A3 that was pne of the: proposals of the But he could not altogether .agree Tvith "this proposal,; for he belived. that the effect of it would be injurious to th'b colony. The hon. mesitber theni proceeded to argue that when the loan was exhausted, no further liabilities should be incurred for the purposes for vuiiih that loaii had been raised. Mr. Vogel 'said that the .Iforthi had : been treated in a rnost generous jnaimer by tiie' in years past. The South had,, in. fact, been the goose laying golden eggs, and it Would not be wise for the Xforth to kill the goose:, by unnecessary taxa» tion. Tiie hph. meinb&r then argued that Stamp Duties would npfc imprpve. the credit;6f the country, as they would withdraw .re.pr'pauctiyp material. The fact was that as. a policemain lpoked on every man ae , a criminal whom it Was his duty to convict, eb the Treasurer looked, on the people as .so much taxable material. It had'been siid.that these duties. w,oiiid be imposed with a vievr to remitting other taxes hereaftei"; but that was not a proper thin» to be Besides a Gpvernmerit: could always speud any money given to it snd it was hot so eaay' to remit a tax as to , impose it. He should like to see the Government give way and allow this question to be diicussed on. its murits by ceasing: to make it a Governtqoht question, or at any rate, he thought the Govef nmenf; might postpone the'-mattor till next. Session. ' ■ ;; ' ; The Hod, Colonel Hattmaix said that .he merely rose to supplement the rem:irks made .by. the Treasurer in reply to the membpr, for tha Wjird) pn,(,ha subject of defenc*;, , He, -would, nrst say in. reply to the member for thp.Gold Fields (Mr. Vogel that £50,000 alluded, to would not in payment .during - the present year, but 'had . beiri put down as the sum which qlpae the.liabiiities for that item.. He.would also eiplain hpw .it.was that the Government, had. been able to see their way to & reduction of their Defence estimates. It was in. : consequence of the expected retentipn pf.one regii ment, to be placed in a central. position...' And owinj; to the short time ..which; ik 6 Government :hacj. had to consider the chaageii aspepts.p£ '.,. afljiirs, items had,not been put down in detail. There .was an advantage in this, because. it might be. requißit6 under certain circucni3tanccj to. employ; the .Militjsj ag well as the Constabulary Forced/He (ipnld; aasura the member for Av.pn (Mr.. \Vard). that there wiss no intentipn to. overlook, the claims of the yplunteere, or ." holiday- aoldieM " as they.had been termed (he thought) unjustly. They were. very numerous both, in the North and South, and ;he : "(OoL. Haultain) thought it most dejirabie thap they should be, properly organized, and disciplined. Heinight also eay that the Government had usedeyery posrible expedition to got tha sett lera x>n their land, [The JUefence AlinUter here quoted from documente, in support of this statement.] , / ; . Mr. . G. .WiED siVjd that ...he. had not imputed blame tp the Government forencouragjngdelays, but had spokeri of delays which had occurred., .. ', The Hon. Colonel HAtiXTAirf said that he believed the House had understood hiame.. to, be .imputed; [The i)efence Minister then deacribed some of thit delay 3 whidh had. : arisen: through lands being.unfit for allptment. owing .to .heing.boggy;.: swarupy, or The difficulties at Tauranga had arisen ftom another cause, viz., from tie fact that three-fourth 3 p£ the land, had to.be given back to the natives, and there wa?. a difficulty as to what should be given back, but it was settled in the time of the present Government by the personal influence of his Excellency and... the member for,: 3?arnell (Mr, VVhitakor)-. At; JPataaaisp,. every .effort was being made, to get .the settlere placed on These men, however, who were still on pay, were utilizai :by boing plaeol ai posta whicit it w»« to petupy. ■ ■ "■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■■,•■-." Mr. GfipsßiE Wabd asked what the Ist Waikato Eegiment was doing■■?' . . ; . The.. Hon. Colohel.HAt7T.T,u.v said that some of the men were at Taurjnga, some at Qpoiiki, and some in the Waikato;' helping to occupy the advanced posts there, which -were nepeseary, in consequence of thd hostile intentions ofKewi and - Mr, H. C. Stevens said that hje/was going lp vote in favor of Stamp Duties. He then brought forward a.fe\v arguments in siippprt of them... He also made a few remarks oh the proposed treaaury Bills,: stating that he did not thinkthey-could bo issuediHe vioiild alao like to see the confiscated lands managed, by a Gominission.-Mr. .Stevens then referred., to a curio.ue item : In the. accpuht. which at. one time wa5..£33,006, ;then- £66,060, and, iifterward3 £90,000^—aud also alluded to the. retention of a regimontj whieli he^.considered.a.'departure' from Mr! ifVeld's. pplicy. He: then .ejpoke o.fUhenece,gi^ o f the provinces : raising their own. trioiiey, and' BUggested. a. manner:in which it might be done. ..The Hon. member also said' that hehoped to havesouie measure brpught forward spaie. day:.to consolidate the loans, Colpnial and. Provincial—and suggested the.advantßge of liaying. a large .bank acting as agent between the coib.ny.aiid the people. ■ . ■ : '. Mr; C. ■ "Wpsi>* would -yote against'. stamp duties; as.he thought theiri.unnecessary.at the present time,. and : were about tp.be.imppsed for a yery trivial purppse. Things had..-.been; said.-'. in the course of debate which had goaded :him almost, to madness. He had. been asked by the.hon, member Bay (Jlr, Carieton) to cast off the "hyppcrisies of debate;" now, he had never been-akypberitei and wouldnot be ao.now; A man. had :6nC6 :bbrrowed £300 from.him and given him bad security, and never 1 repaid him, . but he never had the effrontery to say ..that he had not had the money. Yet-'Mr. Carieton, ..on behalf of the North, for. whpse sake theb'p.uth had borrpwed ■-. £3,000,000, had. said that, self-reliance, .s meant that .the Sbuth Bhould.. put its hand, in.its. pocket; Ihe .South : .had ■.also ; been-Charged ..with; coercing ; the he would.say that.the North had.not .ieencp6rced, and.that thei,.Sp.uU!:.had;^n-coerced by brotherly love ciiid . nothiiig . else. ■' There. :.*as a coexcipa being used ia. this House now—.

a moral coercion—which was being ueed " by tlie Government to prevent hon. members from voting according to theix consciences. 3?or his part, be was prepared to accept the nlternat to proposed by the Treasurer, some days ago, of a diminution of the surplus if the Stamp-tax was not imposed. Ye the Treasurer had been more threatening since. What was the cause of this change ? It had been said that the tails of two parties had joined tocether. The Treasurer had also alluded to a sum of £33,000 increased afterwards to £90,000, which was duo lroin theprovinces to the General Government, but which he wculd not ask for this year- Yet, he -wanted £50000 from Stamp Duties, when ho could get more from the provinces. The lion, member then suggested, that, frotn'his experience of the df\rk skinned races, he thought it would be well to impose a land tax on the natives. In conclusion, 3lr. SVilsan entreated the Colonial Treasurer to return to the alternative he proposed BOmc- days age, and not make this a Government question. The Hon. John Hali, thought it necessary that the last speaker should be soothed somewhat before retiring to his couch. Ah insinuation had been made that some arrangement had been made between some hon. members and the Government on thie question. That ho begged wholly (o dony. The Government was said to be using coercion, but the contrary appeared *° e cnse > f° r the Government was being coerced. ,e Government na( * been formed of membors who had taken office through a consideration of what they owed to the country—(tho member of the Gold Fields, Mr. Yogol, might scoff at that)—and before deciding that Stump Duti« wore necessary had given every consideration to the subject. With resrard to the retention of a regiment, Mr. Weld himself had said that he vrishrd the soldiers to go, but its was not for the Colony to dictuto to the Home Government. That was the position of the matter now. (No, no.) Mr. Hall was then proceeding to explain how £50,000 was spent for the benefit of the natives, when Mr. BrooitHorSß asked, whether the £100,000 advanced to Auckland would bo repaid in December, and whether a further loan would be proposed ? The Hon. John Hall euid that tho Government calculated on receiving it, and had further proposals which would be made in due time. The hon. m> mber then proceeded to argue in favour of the imposition of Stamp Duties, us being necessary at the present time. He also said that thn suggestions made by Mr. Carlevon and Mr. FitzGerald, as to the manner in which the provinces should be dealt with luresfter, were meet valuable, hut the Governm?nt could not deal wiih tho matter this Session. Sir. Hall then stated that the Government would not give up the Stamp Tax, but if the provinces would consent to a reduction of the three-eighths, the Government ■would he prepared to reduce the Revenue accordingly. The Speaker asked -whether tho Government would reduce the Taritf by £.50,1.100, if the provinces were willing to take bo much less than the threeeighths? The Hon. Jons Hali, said th-it the Govt-rument would do so. Mr. MoORHorsE said that that was not what he wanted; ho wanted the Stamp Duties not to be imposed. The Hon. John- Hatx then proeseded to support the view of the Government at some length. The House adjourned shortly after one o'clock.