PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

New Zealand Herald, Volume I, Issue 307, 5 November 1864, Page 6

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

FRIDAY, 4th NOVEMBER. •■On the Council assembling at 3 o'clock here were 13 members present. The minutes were read and confirmed. PETITIONS. Mr. WiivN presented the petition of "Willam Baldock Edridge, of Banks Fee Cottage, Ponsonhy road, "who claimed S5 acres of land for himself and wife, Tbvit had neglectcd to provide himself with, the agent's land order. NOTICE 01' MOTION ■was given by Mr. Cheeseman " 'Dint an Adores be presented to His Honor the Superintendent, icque'St■ing a return of all sums paid to, or cliaigcd by, the the late Provincial I-aw Officer, on account of Government private Bills, distinguishing Bills opposed, if any, from Bills unopposed, together with copy of the account rendered; of all sums, if any, paid to the present Law Officer lor such or similar services, and of all sums paid since the accession of His Honor tc office, to any other professional person for such 01 similar services ; distinguishing throughout charges made for Parliamentary agency in carrying Bills through the House of tho General Assembly, charges for other work done, and General Assembly fees. TUT. I'ItESS. Mr. Foisv complained that he had been made, by tho AVw Zealand Herald to allude to Mr. "Wynn as tho scape-goat of the General Government, when he had really spoken of the Superintendent. DUBATIOX OF IDS SESSION. Mr. Ball asked the hon. member at tho head ol "the Executive on what day he considered they ■should ho in a condition to vacate that Chamber. Mr. Cakleton replied, in about a week. rHOYINCIAL sechktakt's stahment. M!r. Cableto>* desired to make a statement respect ing a few items of public business. The Governmen proposed to accept the proposal of the hon. nicinbei for City "West, that is, to bring down the estimate: at present in force, and ask the Council to pass then for the first two months of 1865. The salaries woulc he brought down nearly the same as they were now possibly with some very small changes. He woulc make his statement-with regard to Works on Tuesday nest, but he might now say that- he should only as'l for the execution of such works as in opinion of tin Superintendent were imperatively required to bi proceeded with at once. It had been intimated tha it was considered that no one man could satisfactorily •do the whole of the work of that Council. He shoule therefore ask them to create another office. On th subject of money spent in excess of the votes, i ■would be his pride, when he left Auckland, that no one shilling had been so spent, but due facility mus he given by the Council for this by granting : sufficiently liberal vote for contingencies. Witl regard to emigration, a change would be made. In structions would be sent to England to tho Emigra tion Agent that emigrants receiving assisted passage shall pay two-thirds of the passage money. Thi would have the effect of restricting the numbers ant bringing a better class of emigrants, with a fev pounds in their pockets. The money would thus g< <Jwo or three times as far. They should bring ou the same numbers but extend them over a longe: apace of time, and not rush the colony as they wer< doing now. The Superintendent would himsel communicate with the Council on tho subject o Captain Daldy's appointment, by Message, but Ik was not forbidden to intimate that the Superinten dent thinks Captain Daldy was justified in accept ill!, it, in support of which Mr. Carleton quoted a repor from the Herald of January 27, of Captain Dalelv'i Epeeeh, but this was objectc-d to by Mr.'Wynn, a3 con Teying a false impression, and he referred to a subsc quent speech of Captain Daldy's on Mr. May': motion. Mr. Carleton, in continuation, said that'ir his own opinion Mr. Daldy should not continue tc hold office. They should revert to the system o; emigration agency previously in use, except some small changes in the duties of the emigration officer. The Council then proceeded to tho OUDEKS OF THE DAY. The report of the Committee on the site of the Supreme Court-house was, bv leave, postponed unti: after the Debentures Bill had been considered. T] Council then went into Committee on the WEEDS AND WATER COUItSES llllL. Messrs. Wynn, King, Skeen, Gallaugher, Buckland, Kerr, Ball, and Hairop objected severally to the second clause. Mr. Buckland said the best way was to postpone the consideration of this hill, as it was not calculated to meet the requirements of country districts. Mr. Kerk suggested that a new bill altogether should he sent down. Mr. Cahleton said it was the wish of the Govern • ment to comply with the wishes of the Committee, but it was necessary to discover what their wishes were. Poll/En* thought thai the best course was to adopt the suggestion of the hon. member for Raglan, namely, to report progress. The matter under consideration was not of such great importance to require immediate attention in preference to the other important measures before the House. Mr. Wynn complained that the information was deficient. A Select Committee had sat and only furnished three lines of information as to the principles on which it should be passed. He thought tho bill ought to ha reconsidered. Mr. Cableton said that Mr. Wynn's objection was like that of the man who went to a dentist to have his tooth pulled out. The operation was performed easily, and when he went to pay his guinea, said that he had been to a dentist in Portsmouth who dragged him round the room for half-a-crown. lie would take the bill back so as to obtain tho wish of the Committee, and would confer with the hon. member for Raglan on the subject. Mr. Buckland said it would soon come about that tho country districts would have to declare themselves whether they would or not. The Cjtaihman-, upon the motion of Mr. Buckland reported progress. ' MESSAGES. 58. Communication fiom the General Manager of the Bank of New Zealand relative to the proposal o stamp the Superintendent's namo on the Coupons attached to the debentures, to bo issued under the "Auckland Debenture Act, 1863 59. Correspondence received from Capt. Daldy, the Agent General in England for the Province of Auckland. „ T " London, Tuesday, July 25. ■ , ir ' have the honor to acknowledge the receipt, on my arrival, of letters, as per margin. No. 1, copy of letters to Messrs. Ridgway ; 2. lists of rate of-ndges, &c.; 3. description of land, &c., from sur?y,nß office—also, a note trom Messrs. Gilfillan advising shipment of pans (laughter) at Sydney- 4 fm £%nn P % T DU I passages ; 5. enclosing draft #4000, duly accepted, from the General Government, and my appointment as agent under the Bav of Islands Settlement Act, together with copies of regulations. Having only landed on Saturday afternoon and received the above mentioned letters yesterday morning, I have no remark or reply to them ; but I assure you I shall lose no time in entering upon mv mission. I communiacted with Professor Gibson o"f Belfast, to-day, and shall meet Messrs. Ridgway to-morrowroorning. I trust I shall have some interesting particulars to report next mail. " I have, &e., " W. C. Daldy, _ , . " 18G, Elect-street. His Honor the Superintendent, " Auckland. " London 19tli July, 1864-. " Sir.—l have tho honor to acknowledge the receipt of your favours No. 690 (duplicate), 727, and 730, via Marseilles—Southampton mail not arrived. I have paid Messrs. Ridgway on their account £1500, and from the estimate they have given me it will require £800 more to close it on the Ist of September, when I have arranged to take over the assisted Fomigrauon. At the extreme high rate of money here at 1

present, and which is likely to continue, 1 could not • draw on Auckland under 7 or S per cent., therefore it is desirable to kcc-p mc well supplied (loud laughter) in proportion to my instructions. "I have made an arrangement to keep the Auckland Provincial Account with tho Bank of New Zoaland in such form that ill (he event of any accident to me it would not- interfere with it, and you could authorise any other peison to operate on it. 1 can at any time make deposits for three months of any amount lam not likely to require :it live per cent, per annum, only one per cent below the interest the Government pays. I Irnst this will meet your approval. Provincial Government "Debentures are quite unsaleable at present ; and had you not, closed with the Bank for the loan the Government won (1 have been in a bad position. 1 am in constant comrtnnt communication with the General Government Emigration Commissioners. They send applicants not suited to mo, and suitable applicants who are unable to pay any part of their passage 1 send to them (laughter); nnd you may depend on my cordial cooperation with thejn. Sly applicants for personal interviews are becoming vctv numerous, and I think it will be necessary to take an ofiico for that purpose, and correspondence. Mirny circumstances nro operating in favor of emigration lo Auckland at this time. It is ceasing to America ; the Australian are not doing much•, Otagoaud Southland will have to discontinue for a time in consequence of their debentures being unsaleable, and most likely Canterbury tdso. When the harvest- is finished more will de.-ire to emigrate. I have arranged to proeced to Belfast after this Ynnil leaves. from my correspondence, I think the organization of the committees is at present very imperfect, but will give full particulars next mail. I got your account of visit to the North, and am much gratified with it. Vint mav depend on my best ollbrts to direct emigration to those important districts. T have appointed Captain A. Giiange, who has pood knowledge of the Provinces, agent for tho approval of assisted emigrants in Scotland. I saw him in London and fully explained the views of the Government to him. I wrote to Sir. D. Lynch, but have received no reply at present . 1 shall see him in Ireland, and consult with him before making any appointment for that country. I gave Messrs. Trougliton and Sims immediately on receipt the order for instruments for railway, and although 1 was urgent, they would 'only promise to complete it in three weeks. 1 have delayed ibis until the last mail, hoping to have received the Southampton mail. Will advise further™ Marseilles, ou the 25th inst. " I have, <,ve.. " C. DAI.DV. " His Honor the Suj erintendent, " Auckland." 60. Correspondence fiom a number of settlers in Wangcrci, urging the establishment of a subsidized steam service between that district and Auckland. Mr. Kino moved that it ho taken into consideration ' on tho estimates. [ 61. 'The Sitkhintendent informed the Council that no letter of crediv had been furnished to j Captain Daldy, by or on account of the Provincial Government. PAYMENT OF DlrlinXTl'llKS 811.1..- —Tllli:l> HE A Dl>T,. ; Mr. Caiu.eton moved that the bill be read a third time. t The bill was read a third time and passed. .UTKt.A'N'I) OAS 'HILT,.— SIXONIi Kr.MlINf:. [ Mr. AVtnn moved the postponement of this bill till , Tuesday, when he will ask for a select committee in t the event of the bill being read the second time, f siteov Tin: srvuiMi: coriiT. ( Mr. Kino said (hat three years ago the General t C-ovcnuncnt were anxious to, sell the site, and the , Council expressed by resolution that this piece of lard . should be reserved for a post otliee. Three or four . communications had taken phue between the General s and Provincial Governments upon the subject, the 5 desire, oflilie Council being to have thw land 1 reserved for an important public purpose ; but the . Provincial Government so far from seconding the > wishes of the Council, suggested that it was not needed, t that the time had passed by when it could be required. r If this practice were to be persisted in, tin- hon. mem--5 hers might; as well go to their homes. The comf mittec hud taken evidence upon tho whole subject, p and the witnesses were unanimous in condemning the , site now chosen at the bottom of Shorthmd-street. If . the Government of the colony were to have eonsti- , tuent parts was it to be tolerated that one constituent I part should be summarily set aside. lie did not think j that the General Government-were anxious to exact . high terms from the province. No doubt if they . were to sell at all, the usual mode was the easiest, , but (he Council were to consider whether it would , not be a good bargain to pav .('20,0(10 for (lie Su- , promo Court, and then have lliis site handed over to r the province for the purpose of a post olllee. , The motion was carricd. After the motion was carried, Mr. Carleton, who had been busily occupied with the late Provincial Treasurer rose to speak, but was informed amid some , merriment that the motion hail passed. Sir. Kixfi then moved that a respectful address be , presented to his Honor (he Superintendent requesting him to forward the wishes of the Provincia Council to the General Government, with a view to . carry out the object of the resolution. On the motion being put Sir. Newman rose and claimed to he heard. Mr. Swansox did not know very well the forms of the House, and hoped that the hon. gentleman representing the head of the Provincial Government might-be heard. The Speaker said there was no question before the House unless th-; question of forwarding the address to the General Government with the view to carry out the wishes of the Council. Sir. Foley hoped that the hon. gentlemen (Sir. Carleton and Sir. Newman) would not persist in disturbing the discussion of the Council, if they chose to sit "inuddlin" their heads, other lion, gentlemen were not to blame. fho Speaker decided (hat the hon. member, Sir. Newman, was in order. Mr. Newman said that sanguine as (he Provincial Government were accused of being, they were not so 1 sanguine as Sir. King seemed to be. He opposed the i motion because in the (irst place it would require ' £25,000 for (lie land and ,C2U,000 for (he building. | [Sir. King: No.] He (-Mr._ls'ewman) so understood ! the hon. gentleman. The'value Government put. I upon the site is .-£25,000, and they have never been prepared to take less, lie would be verv glad indeed secure the site for a Post Ofliee if it could be got without payment. But it was unreasonable to "resolve that the Superintendent should purchase it when he had not got a vote for the money. £10,00(1 had been voted for the Post Olllee, and the same for j the Custom House. Separately these sums wotdd not erect very imposing structures, but it was thought that by uniting them a handsome and convenient building, suitable for several years to conic, might bo erected. When the time arrived to render it necessary, (here were several sites that could be set aside for u nc.v Post Oilicc. Sir. SVynn moved, as an amendment, (hat all (he words after the word "Superintendent" should be struck out of tho resolution. Sir. Newman resumed : He had i( from those who had (he matter in their own hands, that the site could not be purchased under ,€25,000. He contended that the site chosen for the Post Oilicc at the wharf had some advantages which even (he Queenstreet one did not possess, such as the receipt and despatch of letters direct- from the boat that brought them from the ship. It was confidently expected that the improvements contemplated lo be introduced in the Post Office arrangements, would pay for (hem- [ selves, and enable (hem to afford still "further imi provemcnts. They would render it a matter of increasing indifference to tho community whereabouts the Central Post Office was placed. Sir. Cad max read it voluminous correspondence between the Superintendent and the General Government, on the subject of the Supreme Court House site, and called attention to the fact which win apparent throughout it, that (lie General Government had always entertained the idea that the land should be devoted to public purposes, and not that it should be bought by the province to sell a<'ain i.t a profit. 0 Mr. (Jaklkto.v moved as an amendment, " 'i'hat i( was not desirable to address the Superintendent." He persisted, in spite of repeated interruptions and attempts to raise po.nts of order in deprecation in reading the report of (he Public Building Commissioners. ' ° Mr. I'OTXY wished (o know how the Citv Board had become possessed of the property which had been alluded to, that was proposed to be given for a 1 osfc-oflice. Mr. NIW-UAJs' replied that there was a piece of land i at tho bottom of Wakefield-street belonging to the City, which would form a by no means despicable 1 site for a Post-office if it were required. The Council adjourned for half an hour. j

Tho Council resumed business at half-past 7. Sir. Coot-ahan snid that n post-ofiiee was for the convenience of the population of the whole Province, nnd it ought to be placed in the principal thoroughfare. Dr. Pollen said it was a very singular debate. The House had adopted a specific resolution, auel the Council was now asked not to comply with the terms of that resolution. The opinion of the Council had been expressed upon ibis subject over and again. There seemed, in the address of Sir. Newman, something (hat he wished to conceal under a cloud of words. The General Govcvumelil Were technically right (o sell (his Inn(1. When (ho Council were willing (o pay the stipulated price for the Supreme | Court, he die! not see why (bo sile, which was required for the Post-oilier, should be disposed of. He hoped the Council would persevere in making its wishes known to the General Government. The only argument he heard was, that the money was not to lie had, as the Bank of New Zealand would notgive it. The hon. gentleman read the agreement with the Bank, and contended that such view was not correct. Sir. Haiieoi' (bought tho hon. member for the City West deserved (he (hanks of (lie Council for (he great pains ho had taken to collate tho facts, and the great clearness with which ho had put. them before (he Council. It had been decided over and over again that the site in Queen-street was the most eligible. In a few days it would be under the auctioneer's hammer. There was no time to be lost Sir. Swannox said that notwithstanding the tee-ling that the General Governimnt bait a right to sell this mound, be would dispute if. If they bad any right it was only derivable from the unmitigated ignorance of tin l (irst. surveyors. That, ought to bo reserved for public purposes, lie thought the General Government ought to take a significant hint—they were beginning to set the province at defiance. Sir. Gai.laiemu said he hoped that tho hon. Treasury benches would not charge' the members of the opposition with obstructing business, more particular tho lion. Sir. Newman's better half. Owing to this proceeding tho whole day bad boon lost. The . Council weie there to do thobusinrss of the province, . and they were ee-mpelled to spend the greater part of the day talking like a party of old women. Tho executive should not have forced their obstruction to the wishes of the Council. Kvi-rybody knew this to be the best site for a post office. Sir. Gi:oitcu hoped that tho Provincial Government. would at. the eleventh hour lake steps to s<,e:ure this siti'. He did not think the General Government were disposed to drive a haid bargain. The land ou which that house stood cost the Government something about foul-pence an imre. and he thought, the General Government would be disposed to meet the ( wishes of the Council. Sir. P>re:ci..\.M> said that the Executive luul been I treated in a way that he did not consider epiite fair. Dr. Pollen had* made an insinuation which he (Sir. Buckland) thought, to say the least very unwise. He ' said that there were persons connected with Government who, for the'ir own aggrandisement, were seeking (o frustrate the wishes of the Council, and smneI tiling was afterwards said about the Bank, the insinuation being that this was a bribe. This was an insinuation that ought not lo have been made. It was imprudent, to say the least of it. At all events, ' " people whoMiwd in a glass-house should not throw stones." He (Mr. lluckland) dillered from most of the lion, gentlemen who had spoken. He did ne>( think the sile of (he Supreme Court (lie best for a 1 pest-office that should be permanent ; nay, it was not ' even a good site. Ne> one would have said sixteen years ago that this was the best site. Then it w s Short laud-street ; sixteen years hence, it was probable that some other street would be the great, bu - nci-s thoroughfare. As for laying out Hit; place in dirty lanes, as hail been chargedl>v an hon. member ; if thai wi re so, it ought to ho protested against in the slrongi si l( ims. He thought a belter site for a post rllicr could not lie found than the present one. put at anv i ale they ought eneigetically t<> protest against the .Snpriuio Coiut House site bi ing cut up into little narrow lanes and streets. Sir. SVvnn thought that the language e>f fhe amenelment was mr st extraordinary. It they were ne>t to discuss a about gnat public building to be paid for with their money, they might as well go home. If hon. gentlemen opposite heal paid that attention (o the business going on in the Council, which eourlesv ' to the Council woidd fairly demand, but which was so seldom paid, this long discussion would not have taken place. 'It was not-the opposition that it had delayed the business of the country, but tl.e members of the executive. Sir. f.'oss said that the purchase of a site. noL absolutely requiied at the present time, would be throwing away .C-S,OUU, which they had really nut got. Sir. Ki.ve; in reply, said that if the .£'25,000 wog raised, the hon. Gentle-man would have the opp < - tunity of voting for a resolution to make: use of that , site immediately. The Council divided on the amendment.—Ayes, 5 ; Noes, 21. A elivision was then taken on the original motion, which was carried.—Ayes, 2- r ) ; Noes, 1. WATi.nwo r.iis u.l.—sr.coNii ukaiiino. The bill wus read a second time, and the House went into Committee. Sir. ,1. O'Neill in the chair. Clauses 27, -IK, -1/1 w'cre postponed. Mr. Swaxson suggested that provision should be made for property when the owner or occupier could not be found. Tho committee having gene through tho several clauses, .Mr. Cari.eton moved that the short title stand part of the bill. On the motion of Sir. Cahleton, tho Chainnan reported progicss, and asked leave to sit again on Tuesday. ESTIMATES. Sir. C'Ai:i.eton said he was in the hands of the Council whether they would go into the Estimates, or postpone (heir consideration until Tuesday, if it was the wish of the Council, he would postpone the Appropriation Hill till Tuesday. Slotion carried. j .MOTIONS. j The motions ofMcssrs. Caelman nnd Ball No. 1 and i .! oil the list.. The motion of Sir. ICcrr for .C'iOl) for j the Piuiimiro r«>ml was withdrawn upon the umlerI that the Kxccutivc would t lie subject | duo cou.-idcrafion. ZUr. !Kol<\v moved for a. return, | manner iu which .l'72ohnd been expended j for orphan children. standing OUPKItS. Mr. A. O'Nkiu. moved thai the rule fifJth of (lie standing orders be considered in ceimmittce of the whole House, with the view of aiueneling the same. 1 lie House went into a committee, anil a long dis- , cussion ensued. It wus resolveel upon a division I (hat the word "increase" bo inserted after "exi punge." 'The numbers were, Ayes, S, Noes, 4. the Council adjourned at, twenty minutes lo one o'clock.