PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

New Zealander, Volume 12, Issue 1028, 23 February 1856, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

TUESDAY, FEBRUARYS. The SPEAKER took the Chair at 3 o'clock. Present —The Speaker and all the member*. Pt'TITION. Mr. BRENN.\N presented a petition, signed by 181 inhabitants of llowick and Paumure, against the pro* peed Land Regulations. Mr. BUCKLAND presented a petition from some farmers, who attended a cattle sale at Newmarket, against the Cattle Branding Bill. Mr. WILLIAMSON presented a petition from inhabitants of Oabubuand vicintiy, against the proposed Land Regulations. MONEY VOTED TO CITY COUNCIL. Mr. J. O'NEILL moved that a respectful Address be presented to the Superintendent, requesting'him to send down a R-tirn of all sums of money expended by the authority of the Superintendent out of the £'.£QM vot-d by the Provincial Council to be appropriated by the City Council, and on what works such sums of money have been expended. Agreed to. HONEY NOT AUTHortISfD KY PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Mr. O'NEILL also move I an Address to the Superintendent, requesting that a Raturn in iy be sent down shewing all sums of money which have been spent under the authority of the Miperiuteudeiit, but which had not been authorised by votes or resolutions of the Provincial Council. Alter some discission, the motion was agreed to. COLONEL WYNYAHO's SI'PbRIN'TENDENL'Y. Mr. BROUIE moved that a respectful Addiess be presented to bis Honour the Superintendent, praying hun to procure from the General Government copies of all correspon'ence between Colonel Wynyard, as Officer administering the Government of New Zealand, and Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies, on the subject of Ihe election of Colonel Wynyard to the Supermtendency of the Province of AuckLnd, and of his (Colonel Wynyard) re.iriug from the Supeiintendencv. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY seconded the motion, not as a member of the Executive, but as an independent member of the Council. He buns If had brought forwa d and canted a similar motion in ihe House of Representative*! and he did not, as he then stated, do so from motives of mere curiosity as to the contents of ihe. correspondence, but from a deep convie ion of the utter incompatibility of the offices of Superintendent and the Officer administering the Government being united in the same person. In making this statement be spoke on very high legal authority, higher perhaps than hon. members might suppose: and if that opinion were correct, it was clear that all the ordinances pissed in Col. Wynywd's Superintendency were invalid (loud laughter). The hon. member for the Suburbs (Air. Merrirnan) laughed, but he (Mr. Carieton) spoke ou the authonty of a lawyer, and it remained to be seen which of these two lawyers was the gi".iter authority; and he might add, that at no time did he place any reli .nee upon the hon. member's (Mr. Merrirnan) opinion as a lawyer, or in o her respects.—(Mr. Meuhiman: hear, henrj Ihe question, he was aware, was rather an awkward one, and that hon. member would uo doubt be very glad»to see it laughed down, knowing, as he did, there was a great deal in it.

Mr. MERRIMAN: I know nothing of the sort (bear, hear). The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY: If it should appear that the two offices were iucoinpa'ibie, the task of revising the ordinances in question would not devolve on that Council, and the question might possibly be settled by the production of this correspondence ; the question, it his opinion were correct, would be of very great importance seiiouslv affecting, iudeed, the rights ol much property. For this reason, the matter had been referred to England lor the opinion of eminent legal authorities fiat could be depended upon ; but it would be some time before these opinions could be received. Although be carried his aio'ion in the House of Representatives, the papers were refus.d on the ground that the answer to Col. Wynyard's list letter had not yet been received; he presumed that it bed been received by this lime. Mr. MERRIMAN offered no objection to the motion, and would not have said a word, bad not the Provincia' Scvay, as, on so many other occasions, made a direct personal attack upon him (hear, bear). The bon. Provincial Secretary said be did not value his (Mr. Meir.man's) opinion as a lawyer, and he (Mr. Merriman) did not care the snap of his linger whether the bon. gentleman did so or not ; it was not a matter for discussion in that Council what was the worth of his legal opin on ''hear, beai); bis character was above the reach of the Provincial Secretary's at aek. to which iii- (Mr. RJerrim m'-J standing in his profession was a sufficient answer (hear, hear). Standing on bis \ rolessional character he would tell the Council what was L-is opinion up to this alleged incompatibility of the two offices: it was all a bag of moonshine (hear, hear). lie (Mr. Merriman) bad been consulted on this question by parties who were deeply interested; he had carefully examined it; and, speaking as a professional man, he believed the alleged ditbcul y to be a perfect parcel of rubbish (heir, and I..lighter;. Mr. J. U'iNEILL thought, as the Provincial Secretary had sent to England for a legal opinion that could be depended upon, (hear!) he should tell them who bad the selecting of ibis eiirnent legal ,idvis"r, whether any of the authorities here, or any agent, or friend, or merchant in England: anyhow he (Mr. O'Neill) had no doubt that the opinion would be like the opinion of any other lawyer—according to the case put before bill). Major GREENWOOD imagined that tbere was no one who would offer less objecfon to the production of the correspondence than Col. Wynyard, but it was quite another questiou whether the Superintendent wou'd be able to obtain that correspondence from the Geneial Government, A'ter a few lemaiks from Messrs. Burkland, Boylan, and Brodie, the motiou was agreeu to. MASTER AND SEIIVANT'S BILL. Mr. BRODIE moved the first reading of the Master and Servant's Bill. Af.era pause, Mr GOODFELLOW seconded the motion, wiihout pledging himself to approval of the del ill-, ol the Bill, of which he knew nothing. The Bill was then real a first time. Messrs. J. O'Neill, Merriman, and Greenwood,commented on ihe arbitrary and unconstitutional nature of the Bill, which would make tiie roasters tyrants and the servants shires. It wus also urged that, as the Bill was certain to be rejected, it was needless to incur the expense of priming it, particularly as (Majoi Greenwoo 1 observed) there were no trunk makers in the city. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY remarked that the Bill should be prime l , as a muter of course, unless itwa> the Couucii would b<3 legislating in the d.,rk. The motion was then agreed to. A mkssaob, No. 5, from his Honour was announced enclosing a Bill to provide for the adjus'meut of the Pre-emptive 1 and Claims. Tlie Bill was read a Cwt time, and the second read, ing made an order of the day for Thursday. Mr. M ERR IM A N said he did not know what course the Executive meant to take, but be thought it highly desirable dint the Bi I should be referred to a Select Committee; it was similar to one presented to the House of Representatives, anil gone into very fully by a committee of that House, but owing to the shortness of the session it could nut be proceeded with. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY would not obje t to this course, if postponed till after the second reading. Mr. MERRIMAN assented. SI'KCIAL OCCUPATION CLAUSES. Mr. WILLIAMSON movud that an Address be presented to his Honour the Superintendent, requesting a Return specifying the quantity of land which hail been set apart under the provisions of the Special Occupation cliuses of the existing Land Regulations, from the proclamation of the same to 'he present time, district in which situate, number of applications received for laud, names of applicants, number of selections made in ea hj district, and names of present occupiers, lie believed this Return would greatly assist the Council in go n;> through Committee on the Land Regulations, and be believed that it would not bear out the assertions which bad been made by th-> Kxecutive respecting the working of the existing Regulations. Mr. DILWORTH bavins: seconded the motion,

Tbe PROVINCIAL SECRETARY a«itl be hud also risen to second tbe motion, in wbich he would su,>ge.-tan alteration, by inserting the words " btm in procure" Tbe Council would perceive the object of this suggestiou ; tbe whole of tbe board were not appointed by tbe Provincial Government, and be was not sure whether tbe Superintendent bad it ill bis pawer to enf rce the returns asked for. Ever since these Regulations came into force, it bail been a moot point as to tbe power of lbs Supei intendent over ibe Lund Hoard, or whether the control veste 1 with tbe General Government. His Honour bad a right to interfere with tbe classification of tbe lands set apart for occupation, but be could not interfere with tbe other proceedings of tbe Board; though, if be were dissatisfied, be bad tlie power to displace tbe members of the Board (bear, bear). Tbe Provincial Government bad been very careful never to tiierfere with tbe Land Hoard, and tbougb the correspondence between tbe Land lioatil and tbe General Government bad passed through bis office, tbe lale Superintendent allowed it merely for

sake of convenience— in f.ict. hi* office was a mere po-t office. Now, bypassing the motion as proposed tn the mover, the Council would be affirming what tiin Executive had always disclaimed that the Land Board were subject to the control of the Superintendent (hear, and laughter). Mr. WILLIAMSON thought that the alteration suggested was merely splitting straws ; if they looked to the "Gazette" they would find that the Superintendent appoin'ed the Commissioner?, and that the late Superintendent had taken upon himself to declare whose opinion he thought right, when there was a difference of opinion in the Board (hear, hear). Jle (Mr. Williamson) thought that the Council had a right to apply to the Superintendent for this information, and that it was his Honour's duty to obtain it for them ; he did not think that t 1 -i> words suggested were necessary. Mr. DILWORTH, as there was a member of the Land Board present, would as» him whether there was any objection to the retur a asked for ? Air. MAY, without passing any opinion on the point raised by the Provincial Secretary, snid that lie (Mr. May) was certainly paid by the Provincial Government (hear, hear) ; the Land Board would not throw any obstacles in way of these returns, but at the same time he thought it would be us well to insert the words suggested.

Mr. MERRIMAN would prefer the alteration heing put as an amendment, as a matter of piinciple he must object to nheir insertion.

The SPEAKER said that the motion could not be allowed without the unanimous consent of the Council, and as the hon. member for the Suburbs (Mr. Merrirnan) dissented, the insertion must be put is a i amendment.

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said he had suggested tue insertion of these words to prevent disappointment to the movbr; the returns were already prepared, hut he could not conr-eal the fact, that matters had arrived to a point at which the Provincial Government could no longer admit that the Waste Lull Board was in any way more nearly connected with it than the General Government.

Mr. MERRIMAN believed there was a great deal more in tha suggested insertion, than at the first blush met the eye. (Uear, heat.) If those words were inserted, the Council would seem to admit that the Lmd Board was not under the contol of the Supeiintendent while he (Mr. M.) had no doubt whatever that the Commissioners were the servants of the Provincial Council.

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY (to Mr. Merrirnan): Wood—Wool ! Mr. MERRIMAN replied that Mr. Reader Wood-s connexion with the Laud B >ard on the part of the General Government was purely financial, not executive, and that be (Mr M.) did not fur a moment believe that Mr. Wood would throe.- any impediment in the way of furnishing these returns. Mr. DILWQRTH could not see how, after JUr. May's funk admission, any objection could be offered to furnishing th.se leturus, Mr. J. O'NEILL followed on the sime side extending that the Commissioners wero appointed by the Superintendent, were removeable by him, and were therefore r.sponsible to bin. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY repeated that there was one Commissioner appointed by the Genwal Government.

iVJaj r GREENWOOD having made a few observations in which he alluded to M>. May a3 receiving a salary as Commissioner and being glad to do so, Mr. MAY said that he had never .sought fur the place and had wished that some other party had been put into it: he believe lit would be inure profitable to attend to his own business, and to sliuvv that he had no wish to keep the situation, lie had proposed regulations by which his office would be abolished. He had thought it rij;ht to get these returns ready, <>n seeing the matter al tided to, and he would only add that any information he had been able to obtain as a member of that Board he was always ready to give to any parties applying to Dim, (hear, hear). Mr. DIGNAN expressed hi* tegret that the Provincial Secretary should so constantly raise objections when information was asked for: if a better spirit wire shown every member on his (Mr. Dignau's) side would be willing to aid in piessiug forward the business, and he greatly wished that ib" bon. gentleman would cease this ripping up of old grievaucies, as in the ease of Colonel Vvynjard s Superinteudenoy and the present dispute as to the Laud Board. Mr. BRODIE said that 33 minutes had already been wasted in this matter, and that if the hnn. member for the Pensioner Settlements wished for the information, he should consent to the insertion suggested hy the Provincial Secretary. The bon. member for the Suburbs (Mr. Merriman) had said there was something under cover.

Mr. MERRIMAN bad before distinc'ly disclaimed imputing any motive to the Provincial Secretary, ami bad merely pointed out, that under cover of the alteration, something might come out that would place the l'rovincial and the General Governments at issue.

Mr. BUCKLAND having biiefly supported the motion, Mr. MAY said he was surprised that hon. members on both sides of the hnu.se should I ave wasted so much time about a mer» trifle. Mr. WILLIAMSON did not think it a mere trifle. Doubts and uncertainties had existed in a similar way in the minds of hon. members opposite, ever ainse the Land R guhitious came into operation, and had been made an excuse for those Regulations net being worked (hear, hea l ) These doubts and uncertainties bad been a great curse to the Province and bad tbiown it back for years, and he believed it was this spirit of doubt and uncertainty which dictated the insertion of the wo ds propos d. lie (Mr. Williamson) contended thiit there was no doubt about the lesponsibility of the Land Board to the Provincial Governm nt. Jj»t as well misfit it be urged that if auy member of the Provincial Council of 0'» go wished to obtain any information from the Waste Land Board of that Province, be must wait until an application was made to, and the information received from the General Government. The Commissioner (Mr. Wood) representing the Go vernment on the Hoard was there merely for financial purposes. The doubt raised as to the jurisdiction of the two Governments was one of those absurdities which had so much injured this Province. Still if it were thought that the insertion of these words would make the motion any more respectful to his Honor, he woulJ not object to their insertion. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY could not agree to withdraw h:s amendment, because there was a principle involved in it (bear and " divide"): he should be sorry to come to a division now upon that question, which if it were to be debated, had better be debated another time, be would therefore miggest a compromise, by the substitution of these words "to procure If'in the Chief-Commi*Bioii"r of the Land Hoard." Mr. WILLIAMSON said he would not object to this altered insertion as the Chief-Commissioner was the servant of the Provincial Government. The motion was thus allied and then agreed to. SELECT COMMITTEE ON TIIK I'ItOPOiUD LAND UI'XU'LATtOVS. On the motion of th • PROVINCIAL SECRE TARY •lauding order No. 31 was suspended, to allow him to bring forward a motion without notice, which, he saiu, was conciliatory. He Jljad stated, when the hon. member for the Sou hern Division, proposed bis amendment for referring the proposed Luid Regulations to a se ect Committee, that had thai amendment been brought forward as a substantive motion, and not with the obvious intention of negativing the motion proposed by Mr. May, it might have been agreed to by the Executive. Mr. DILWORTH reminded the hon. gent email that he (Mr. Dllworth") bad proposed to convert his amendment into a substantive motion, so that he (the Provincial Secretary) whs now speaking on false piemises. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY dissented from tie h'-n. gentleman's statement, adding that but for the standing rule, he should give a very plain answer :o it. He then continued, he was strongly of opinion that the existing Land Regulations would not be allowed to remain in operation, but that those now proposed, with some minor alterations, would be adopted by the Council. He should be sorry, however, to force them through the Council by a vety s nail majority, (hear, hear), and he would therefore move. 'That a Special Committee, to consist of Messrs. i\iay, Greenwood, Buck land, Tavlor, Boylan, Graham, and the mover, be appointed to take into consideration tho proposed Land Regulations, and t<» take evidence upon the existing ones." The repoi't to be brought up on 'luesday next. By this means the vi-ws of both parlies would be in. t. The report of that Committee (in the ■election of the names for which he hat! exercised great care) would ofcour.se not be binding u on the Council, but still if the Committee had the confidence of the Council its recommen. atiotis would have great weight. He trusted by this means to save time. He began to be seriously anxious about the termination of the Session, since the House would b- wanted lor another As-.enr ly. If the Report should not bo roady bj next Tuesday, and if it should appear that the Com nittee bid gone to work in a fair spirit, there would be no objection on the part of the Executive to an extens on of ii ne. Mr. HRODIK seconded the motion.

Mi. J. O'NEILL sujgMtfc-d tbe sub-tituiion of " the existing" for' tbe prop 38 d Land Regulation," believing that with some slight amendments tbe existing ones were very good ones.

Tbe PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said tb»t if Ins motion were object-d to, the Council could go tbrOUgb the Regulations in a Committee of ibe whole bouse. Mr. MERRIMAN thought that Mr. O'Neill bad

misunderstood the scope of the motion, by which the Committee could repot t on the existing Land Regulations.

Mr. BUCKLAXD was very glad that the Provincial Secretary had adopted the suggestion of Mr. Dihvorth, to refer both sets of Regulations to a special committee* lie would not ask what had made (he bon. member ao suddenly " Jump Jim Crow," but he thought that as a matter of courtesy, Mr. Dilworth should have been put on the committee (hear, bear). He (Mr. Ruekland) was aniiouH to withdraw his name in favour of Mr. Dil worth,

Mr. HOYLAN, though glad to hear the motion o r the Provincial Secret ry, did not like <o have it put forth as a matter of conciliation, it should have (been put in its true light, which was that the Provincial Secretary was himself conscious that with the amendments which he himself had brought forward, the proposed Regulations could nut possibly have passed Those amendments were completely contradictory of some of the most important clauses in ihe Superintendents Regulations. It had been said that it was the constitutional members who frittered away time by needless discussion, but he thought the delay was charge, aide against the Provincial Secretary for bringing forward a set ol amendments which rendered it impossible to carry the Regulations at all (hear, hear). He should wish to see Mr. Dihvorth on the committee, and would suggest that his own name should be withdrawn, as he (Mr. Hoylan) being a city member, was not so thoroughly acquainted with country matters.

Tbe PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that it was only necessary for him to remark on the suggestion for a change of names; he could assure him (Mr. Hoylan) that he had selected the names wilh great care, as those best adapted to work together wilh harmony. He had selected Mr. Hoylan because of bis well-known urbanity, and as a personal favour he should wish him to remain on the committee.

Mr. UUCKLAND again requested h : s name to be slruck out to make room for Mr. Dihvorth —[Mr. Dilwoimi : No, no.] The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said, as Mr. Dihvorth declined, he (the Provincial Secretary) could n >t force him to serve (oh ! and laughter)

Mr. MERRIMAN moved the addition ot Mr. Dilworth's na ne to the committee, as a matter of courtesy and for the satisfaction of the country, adding, at tbe suggestion of Mr. May, the name of Mr. GoodfelLw. Major GREENWOOD seconded the motion.

Mr. DILWORTH said he had to thank the Provincial Secretary Cor his courtesy in keeping liis (Mr. Dilwortli'b) nadie; off the committee (hear). He could assure him he w.is very {(lad to he relieved from so anxious and unthankful a position, as every member of this committee would he placed in. Me was glad to see that the lion, member had comt' to a sense of the real position in which he now stood, but he wished tin hat) had the candour to acknowledge that he saw tha' his own amendments hud imperilled the proposed Land Regulations. Mr. J. O'NE'LL supported tho motion of Mr. Merriinan, as it would be a great loss to the country if Mr. Dilworth was oft* the committee (hea'). It was a matter of no small congratulation, that the good sense of the minority of ten (oh, oh ! from the Executive benches, and counter cheers from iho independent member-)—had induced the Executive to pause with these Regulations. He repeated it—he would also say that it was to the credit of the Pensioners that 'thev had poured in their petitions. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said, if he once began to make alterations in the committee he scarcely knew where to stop. The addition of Air. Dilworth's name would break up the original selection. It had been suggested to him that there would be other alterations. He hardly knew what course to pursue. Mr. DIGNAN tho'ght bon. members ought not to pre-suppose there would not be harmony in the committee. If there was a difficulty ab;>ut the matter, perhaps the Ballot ('" heir !" from the Provincial Sucre tary)—should be resorted to —(no, no!).

Mr. MERRIMAN sail if the Ballot were resorted to it would be a party committee, and it was desirable to have all varieties of opiuion represented in the Committee.

Mr. WILLIAMSON thought the commi tee proposed by the Provincial Secretary, with the other two names, would be satisfactory. He hoped Mr. Dignau would not press for the Billot, for he (Mr. Williamson) was suspicious of that mode of selection after the cheer given by the Provincial Secretary. After some further discussion, and a communication across tha table with Mr. R. Graham, the PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said the difficulty he had apprehended had been got over; the addition of these two names, would not break up the committee, and bu now had much pleasure i:i supporting the amended motion. The motion as amended was seconded by Mr. Merrimon, and was then agreed to. In reply to Major GREENWOOD (who gave notice of a further motion for to-tlar, Friday), The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY add that the writ for the Pensioner Settlements hal bee;i prepared by the Provincial Law Advi er. THE LAND nEGUt.ATIONS. The Council 'hen went into committee on the pro-po.-ed hmd R gilations. The bl nks ii the first clause, Mr. MAY proposed should be filled in with "the First of April, Itfoli." Mr. DILWOHT i suggested that it had been understood t'>e Council were only to go into committee pro forma, after which the Chairman siiould ask leave to report proarew. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY contended that no such understanding had been made as to the ti si clause, which both sides bad agreed should be adopted, the remaining cl luses being postponed Messrs. J O'NEILL and DILWORTH having briefly relied to the Provincial Secretary, Mr. MAY said he did not know whether his motion was in order or not, but he b d meant it pro forma.

In reply to Mr. WILLIAMSON who urged that the aloption of this clause pre-supposed that the existing Regulations were done away with, The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said hon. members opposite did not reciprocue bis movements of concession ; if he gave an inch, they wauled to take an ell. The committee had nothing to do with the existing Regulations - [A mimber: Where was the concession then ?] -The Council had already affirmed the principle of the proposed Regulations by thoir vote of the other day—-(No, no!). The object of the committee was to see if tii»system of credit in the puichase o' land could with advantage he introduced into die proposed Regulations, as laid down in tb« existing Regulations. Hut the continuance of those Regulations had been already negatived by the vote of the other day, which the Council could not rescind. Mr. J. O'NEILL: 15ut the Council hid r«sci-id'd its vote by conceding the c >mmi tee before refused (hear, hear). Tbe fact was, the Execu'ive had been forced to yield to the '' pressure from without." The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY: The hon. memb r was imputing motives— (laugbti r). Mr, J. O'NEILL said he repeated the Executive bad vi.-hled to the " pressure from without." The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY again complained that ihe hon. member was imputing motives, iind speaking of what he could know nothing about. The SPEAKER (in reply to .Mr. Williamson) could see nothing- objectionable in Uie worUs «* pressure from without" (hear). The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY having disclaimed any yielding to the " pressure from wilhou-," Mr. J. O'NEILL said he would appeal torn) hon. member of the Executive (Mr. Beckham, we understood), wiio represented the ci:y, whether ho had not een waited upon by a deputation from bis constituents to complain of the proposed Land Regulations, and whether this had nut something to do with the granting of the committee (hear). He did not know whether it was competent to him to ask what passed then ?

No response was Riven. In reply to some further remark, the SPEAKER repeated that he could see no imputation of motives in speaking of " yielding to the pressure from without." They were sent there to represent their constituents, and when those consti;uen's expressed a strong wish on a point, it was honourable to yield (hear). Ml*. J. O'iVKILL having moved, as an amendment, the postponement of the consideration of the Regulations nil the report of the committee was brought up. Mr. BUCKLANJ) pointed cut that, to adopt the first clause after the appointment of tl e committee, and before the presentation of the report, would be inconsistent with the wording of tbnt clause. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that the objection was acute, but it had already occurred to himself, and he had taken some opinions, and found there would be no incongruity. The amendment was negatived, and the first clause adopted ; alter which progress was reported, and the Council adjourned. WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 20. The Council met at past 3 o'clock. Present—The SPEAKER, and all the m-mfcer*. Major GREENWOOD pursuant to notice a.kn.l the Provincial Secretary whether the wrii lor the eleolion of n t.ew member for the Pensioner Settlements had been yet issued. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that it wa, out of their hands, and was in the hands of the General Government. The Superintendent had called twice to s.o the teal affixed, and it was probn le the writ w now completed and on its way ; there had been- some difficulty in ascertaining the legality of Captain Haultain's tiding as leturning officer, and he (the Provincial Secretary; had applied to the General GoYcrumeut for

a copy of the Captain's appointment as' such officer. The answer whs that he had not been appointed, but was assumed to be so by virtue of bis office. Referring to the clause of the Constitution Act, he found that the Resident Magistrate of such district was Returning Officer. Now there were two in the district of the Pensioner Settlements, Captain Haultaiu and Cap'ain McDonald. However, so soon as the writ was received, it would no doubt be forwarded to Captain Haultain. Major GREENWOOD said that the question had not been answeiel. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY had told the hon. member that as soon as the writ waa received from the General Government it wou'd be forwarded to the Returning officer, in fact he believed that it was on the way to him at the present time. QUKSriON TO PROVINCIAL BECrtF.TARY. Mr. DILWORTII (in accordance with notice given) asked the Provincial Secretary whether or not it is his Honour's intention to.introduce a Hill this Session to impose a tax upon all waste or unimproved lands held Under Grant from the Crown exceeding in extent 100 acres. He was prompted to ask this question from hearing a statement made by the hon. member, the Commissioner of the Lifid Hoard, in explaining the working of the present Land Regulations, that if there wa« plenty of land, they could be carried into effect. He (Mr D.) had afw days ago travelled a distance of 30 miles in the Pupakura District, and in the whole distance there were only two small improved allotments, though the whole was open, available laud. It was a great injustice ci the working cla>s that so much land should be lying idle, while they could not get land to purchase. The SPEAKER said that it was out of order to introduce argumentation in putting a question. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY (who rose very much excited), said that an addition had been made in the notice given the other day by the hon. mem* ber which the written notice now read did not contain. That first notice concluded bv requesting that he (Mr. Carleton) should give his answer it) writing. Such a proceeding, he thought, was most offensive ; it was tantamount to saying that his (Mr. Carletou's,) word was not to be taken.

Mr. DILWORTH deuied that any alteration bad b-jen made.

The wriiten notice (the original) was handed tJ the Speaker by the clerk, when it was found to be the same as that on printed paper. Mr. MERRIMAN was prepared to assert most positively that the hon. member read tbe notice as it was on the paper. The rrquest, that ' the answer might be given in writing," was merely a spoken suggestion from the bon. member, it was given as such, (hear) and he (Mr. M.) must say it struck him at the time as rather singular. (Hear.) Mr. DILWORTII would put himself under the protection of the Speaker, and would ask if he was to be Continually exposed to these personal insults. I'llW was the third time that the hon. member at the head of the Executive bad onnduoted himself towards him in a similar manner ; he 'herefore called upon the Council to protect him from such gross and uncalled for insults. The SPEAKER rose to order: It was quite evident—

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY (interrupting) said he had not seen the written notice, but he heard what the Lon. member bad read Mr DILWORTH contended that before such a charge had been made, which had imputed to him (Mr. Dilworth) that he ha 1 altered a written notice, the bon, member ought to have looked at the original notice paper. {hear, hear). Mr. MERRIMAN add that it wa* decidedly a question of privilege and ought to be taken into consideration at once.

Several members hiving spoken pro and con, Mr. WILLIAMSON moved a resolution which he thought would do justice to all parties, " That the hon. member for the Bay of Islands having stated that a no; ice of motion given by Mr. Dilworth has been altered at it appeared on the notice paper, thereby imputing to some member or officer of this Council improper conduct, that the Speaker be requested to lefer to the original notice of motion given, and declare whether any such alteration has taken place." Mr. MERRIMAN seconded the motion.

Major GREENWOOD and Mr. J. O'NEILL supported the motion, the latter gentleman contending that the Provincial Secretary should have looked at the written notice paper before making such a serious charge. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY would not object to the motion providing ihat the words '' as read 1 ' be inserted in place of " given." Mr. WILLIAMSON objected to the alteration at first, but afterwards agreed to it, and the amended resolution was carried.

The SPEAKER, in referring to the question put to him in the motion, said that be could not answer tbe question as to any alteration having been made or not, from whit had been read by the lion, member (Mr. Dilworth) ; and he could give no opinion whether tbe words were r»*ad or spoken, not having beard them. Mr. WILLIAMSON observed that the word 'read" occurred in the preamble of tbe resolution ; he submitted that in justice V< tbe lion, member (Mr. Dilworth) the documents ought to be compared ; be would respectfully ask tbe Speaker if he meant to decide on the question put to him in a resolu'ion agreed to by tbe Council. Tbe PROVINCIAL SECRETARY rose to order. Mr. WILLI AMSON said be would not be put down by the lion, member, but would bow to the decision of the Speaker. The SPEAKER said the hon. member was out of order; be had decided already that be could not decide the question—he was not there to ta'..e sides with either party At this juncture, MESSAGE NO. 6 from his Honor was announced, enclosing two Bills for tbe consideration of the Council—tbe " Highway Act," and the «• Scab Act." They were both read a first time, ordered to be printed, and the second reading fixed for Tuesday ne*'. The Council then resumed ; when Mr. DILWORTH agar, asked the Provincial Secretary tbe original question. The PROVINCI VL SECRETARY said his Honor had no such intention. DAILY SITTING". Mr. BOYLAN moved " that the Council shall meet on every day except Saturday, until the close of tbe Session, at the usual hour." The motion was objected to by almost all tbe members, and was negatived. IMPOUNDING BILL. Mr. BUCKLAND moved " that a Select Committee he appointed to consider the Impounding Ordinance ; sunb Committee to cousUt of Messrs. Beckham, Goodfellow, Dilworth. Merriman and the Mover." His purpose was to fieilit .te as much possible the business of the Council. It had been framed by those who knew little ci- notbinj about it. The amendments proposed by Mr. Beckham were a decided improvement; in fact, wilhou' them the Bill would not be worth u rush ; but others might be made which wou'd improve .it still more. Mr. BOYLAN nhjec'ed to the motion, as the X<and Regulations Committee sat every day, and there was no room. If so many select committees were appointed, some of them would have to meet in the pound The'PROVINCIAL SECRETARY objected to select committees generally. Last Session, so many were appointed that everything appeared to he dune in the da k ; it was not possible to know what took place from the retorts. Mr. BUCKLAND pressed for tbe appointment of tbe Committee, which, upon a division, was lost. 14 ; Noes 8. TUB INTEHPItrTATION BILL was read a third time and passed. THE CATII.K BIIAVDING BILL was forwarded a stage in com uittoe, and postponed upon clause 8. THE IMPOUNDING BILL was discussed in committee, several clauses forwarded and others postponed. It was made an order of the day for Thursday. Tbe Council then adjourned. THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 21. The Couucd met at three o'clock. Present—The Speaker and nineteen members. The minutes having been r ad, Mr. MERiIIMaN remarked that no mention wa's made of the Speaker's decision in tlie case of ihe alleged alteration of Mr. Dilworth'* notice of quest on to the Provincial Secretary. He (Mr. Mernman) was aware he would not be strictly in order, but, for the sake of conciliation, would heg to he allowed to state that he had been in communication with Mr. Dilworth in relerence to what was reallv a spoken request for a written reply. It would bein the recollection of the Speaker and tbe Council that last session The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY: I shall not suffer 'his to go on without a reply, though 1 know not what s going to be said. Mr. MERRIMAN (in answer to tbe Speaker, who now reminded him be was out of order) said he would say no mure. Mr. DIG NAN observed that the Speaker had not yet given his decision asj to whether the notice had been altered. The SPEAKER said that, as Mr. Williamson's motion was altered, be had alreudy said he could not de-

cide v. bother the notice, as read, was the same as no w proposed. It having been urged that the Speaker should take some notice of the matter, The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY, rising and looking at tbe bon. gentleman, snid in a loud voice, he (Mr. Carleton) would hive the Speaker carefully consider what be did say before he entered anything oh the minutes ("sensation among the members). Mr. MERRIMAN moved the postponement of the minutes till the next sitting, to allow the Speaker to frame his notice of the matter. Mr. DILWORTH rose to draw atteniion to the singularity of the Provincial Secretary directing the Speaker what course 10 pursue (hear,.;hear). The SPEAKER called Mr. Dil worth to order, and said that no further irregular discussion eould be permitted. ACCOMMODATION FOR THH PIUSS. Mr. J. O'NEILL brought up the report of the committee appointed to inquire into the accommoda'ion for the Press—recommeilding that it should be increased. Received and read. Notice was given, that on Friday Mr. J. O'Neill would move it* adoption. ADDIIIONAL RFPtUSF.NTATIVES FOR THE NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN DISTRICTS. Mr. BUCKLAND moved "that in the opinion of this Council the Elecoral Districts of tbe Northern Division and Southern Division are, with respect to their number of Representatives, inadequately repre* sented in this Council, as compared with the other Electoral Districts of the Province ; and, with a view to equalise tbe number of Representative 8 for these Distnciß, it is just and expedient that measures should be forthwith adop'ed to enable the Electors to adJ two Members to each of the said Divisions." The motion, he thought, Would meet with little opposition, as It only stated an abstract truth, which was one of tbe fundamental principles of the Constitution Act. He found on reading clause 5, that each district should have a certain number of members, returned in accordance with the numerical proportions of each. No doubt at the time the Act came into L>rce, all the districts were fairly represented; but at present it was very Jiff rent; some bad the number of electors increased by 100 per cent., while others had diminished, and yet the num'ier of Representatives lemained as originally fixed. He had taken the trouble to compare the number of electors in each district, with their respective Representatives, and found the following result: —Tbe City had a member for every 2I(J voters, tbe Suburbs one for every 75, the Settlements one for every 18.>, the Southern Division one for every 288, tbe Northern Division one for every 214, and the Hay of Islands one for every 90. Upon these facts alone, sufficient cause was adduced to show how unfairly represented were the two Divisions, for which he claimed two more members each (hear). It was not a party affair, and be trusted that it would not bn considered as such by any hon. member (hear, hear). Tnere had been no action t«ken in the ni3tter as yet, but if the Council agreed to his motion, he would do so in a Hay or two, by a further motion for an Address to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to bring in a Hill for that purpose. Mr. A. O'NEILL seconded the motion. He considered that no argument was neces:.ary after hearing he comprehensive statement of the last speaker ; it was so plainly a matter of justice that no more was required to be said.

The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said he did not object to the motion. It was a very lair one, and as Mr. Bucklund had said, it was no party mutter. He wished that it should be considered as it ought to be considered, an open question (hear) ; and he did not look foi support to any of those hon. members who usually voted with him and his Executive. He agreed that these two divisions were not adequately represented, but he questioned very much whether the Council had it in their power to take any steps in the matter. However, before he assented to the motion, he would recommend the substitution of the words ''on an early conven : ent opportunity," in place of " forthwith." He thought thai the waste of time that would follow the introduction of such a measure which would then become a pnrty question (hear and laughter)—together with the great amount of business ihey had to get through, was an objection to iln being adopted at present. It would (jive rise to hot debates, to which the one on the Land Regulations would be a trifle. He would a>k the hon. member (Mr. Buckland) to agree with him in the amendment. He (Mr. Carletou) had at one time thought of introducing a similar motion, but he feared the result: it would endanger the chance of anything then before the Council being proceeded with. Mr. J. O'NEILL said that Mr. Buckland ought to be thanked for bringing 'he motion forward. As it was a matter of justice and not of time, be should like to know when *' the convenient oppor.unity" would arrive (hear, h-ar).

Mr. BECKHAM said that no doubt some districts were over-represented and soni.- tbe reverse: but he did not consider that any s eps should be taken until the Electoral Roll bad been revised. There were maiiy on the roll that ought not to be —(hear, hear) —and a great many not on that ought to be (bear). [The hon. member concluded with a statistical argument which wecou Id not distinctly hear.] Mr. DIGNAN, so far from agreeing with Mr. Beckham, that there were many on the roll who ought not to be, would give every settled resident a vo's (bear). Neither of these divisions were fairiy represented. Mr. MERRIMAN had been endeavouring to gather tbe objet of the hon. member's [Mr. Bechbam] argumentation, but really could not (bear). Mr. should suppose fronTthe way in which business was conducted at present that there were enough of members in tbe Council. If they wished to equalise the representation, let them take a member from the districts that were over repre ented. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said he «ould be glad to adopt any reasonable suggestion.

Mr. BUCKLAND maintained that it wa* reasonable enough already. What more reasonable suggestion could be made than to do justice? (bear.) The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY would be sorry to go to a division upon the subject, but, unless his suggestion were adopted, be must move as an amendment, to insert tbe words be had suggested to tbe hon. member. He had not the ► lightest idea how tbi divi sion would go (laughter). The country wanted good substantial measures—let those be got through first before one of a party political tendency was discussed. Mr. BEDGGOOD seconded tbe motion. Mr. MERRIMAN said that it was not a little remarkable that the mover and seconder of the sinend—ment were the representatives of tbe s nallest proportion, with one exception, of voters alluded to by Mi* Bu kland— the Bfi/y of Islands—(laughter). If, as the Provincial Secretary said, it was just, why not proceed to do jvt-itice immediately ? Mr DILWORTH was surprised at the opposition to the motion, which was so fair, and based s>lely upon admitted facts. Tie Provincial Secretary said it should tie considered at a ''convenient opportunity." He (Mr. D.) would like to know the hon. member's ideas of " conveniency," whether next year or never ? The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said : Next Session.

Mr. DILWORTH contended that those very important divisions were very inadequately represented, and was sorry to hear this doctrine of** convenience" preached by an honest Government. Mr. GRAHAM said that this was not tbe time to embroil the country in an election. He should like to see all classes properly represented ; but be bad seen many of the settlers of tbe Northern and Poutbern divisions, and knew that it was not their wish to be embroiled in another election.

Mr. J. O'NEILL said thai the objection made by the last speaker, was a mere matter of opinion. Many of the most important measures now before and to come bef re the Council would materially affect those two divisions, unci should be postponed until the representation was made compli-te. (hear.) Mr. BRODIE having said a few words, Mr. BOYLAN again pressed the Provincial Secretary to withdraw his opposition. Every body admitted that justice required this addition, and why should it be denied merely for tear ol the excitement of an election.

Mr. WILLIAMSON expressed bis surprise at hon. members representing the Southern aud Northern Divisions opposing the motion. From the Superintendent's Address, it appeared that large sums of money were likely to be expended' in public works—possibly partly in those districts ; and if those gentlemen had been in the Council on foimer occasions when the Estimates were di-cussed, and had seen with how much eagerness the allotment of the funds was watched—even when most fa r!y apportioned —he did not think they would have opposed the motion (bear.) In his (Mr. XV.) opinion the Southern Division hsd never been fairly represented ui.der Mr George Grey's division of electoral distr cts, but since his Land Regulations had come into opeiation and led to their population being so laigely incieased, tbe Southern as well a 6 the Northern Divisions were rrry inadequately represented in propoition lo the sbaie of tbe revenue contributed by theua (hear). Mr. BUCKLAND having briefly replied, the Coun. •il divided:— Ayes— &. Noes—ll. Messrs. J. O'Neill Messrs. 8.-ukham A. O'Neill "Carleton Buculand Hendersoa Williamson May Dignan Hay Boy lan Goodfellovr Dilworth Taylor

Merrituan Tomer l'.roiiie Bedggood Graham _ -*-""* [Major Greenwood came in shortly after the Mr. Brennan whs absent.] r\s* ** Tie amendment was put and Carried, upon * div's on, with the- fame ie>ult. { Jf Mr. BUCKLAN I) then aa*e no ice that on FridavUi* \ *» would more that a respectful ad r'sa he presented V3r \. his Honor the Superintendent, requesting hirti to down, Without delay, a bill for the equalization of tbe\V{ different electoral divisions of the FKE-EurrivE LasdClums Bill, the PROVINCIAL SECRETARY mov.d the Ss« cond reading of this hill. It was not necessary to say much, as everything connected with th?»e claim* was well known. He had in the House of Representative* introduced a similar measure; hut so many Sou'hern members were then present who knew little of the matter, that owing to such want of information on their part, and to the Commftee appointed on the bi I not being able to get tl rough it that sea ion, the bill Was at his request abandoned. The present one was vaiy much shorn of its fair proportions. The former one gave - compensation. The Provincial Council could not tiVe that, but it could go a great way towards it. They could order a thorough investigation. Many matter* had been k»pt in the dark— at least he could never get at them. The Council could appoint commis ioners to investigate these thoroughly, and when the question came before the House of Representatives the trouble would be taken off their hands. Mr. EROOIE ascended the motion. Mr. BUCKLAND frequently admirt-d the manner in which the faun, member treated questions of injustice; (hear, hear.) The hon. member was not in Auckland at the time when Governor Fitzßoy was compelled by threats of native insurrection, to recognise these pre* emptive claims. He (Mr. 13.) did not consider such a compulsory agreement at all binding ; and be woi.ld augK' at that a select committee by appointed to investigate the matter, and take evidence thereupon. He hoped that some member of tbe Executive would take the motion out of his hands.

Mr. WILLIAMSON recommended a postponement of the question. A Bill had been passed by tbe General Assembly, giving it power to transfer to the Provincial Government the management of the waste lands of tbe Province. When that power was transferred, it would be time for them (the Provincial Council) to take steps in the matter. He (Mr. Williamson,) objected to any Committee of that Council doing tbe wort; of the House of Representative*; besides, that House would not be satisfied with the evidence so obtained. A Committee was not necessary, for the Council could get any information they wanted from tin? old Commissioner*. The Provincial Secretary said be had not been able to procure proper information. —> that everything was kept in the dark. Tus ioquijy was conducted in open courts. [Provincial Secretary : No, secret ones.] The court over which Mator Matson presided was open to the public, and he knew that even reporters for tbe press attended (hear). The hon. member of ten asseiC ed that the business of tbe Council \va» retarded by useless opposition ; but he (Mr. William • son) considered this was an unnecessary piece of le-* gislaiion and would retard tbe more useful and legiti* mate business of the Council (heaf). He would also obj-st to the Council interfering in the matter, as there was a general impression—which he believed to be well founded —thut t ve.al members were interested parties. If this was the case those members aught not to take part in this inquiry (hear). Mr. BRODIE having said a few wsrds, Mr. DIGNAN objected that the Bill did not go far enough: it should include and sale fur ever, all o. tstanding c aims in the Province (hear). Mr. GOODFELLOW briefly supported the motion. The PROVINCIAL SEC It ETA It V, in reply, said if not here when Governor F*tz Roy took the step in question, he wis in Auckland when the sale of land was going on. He bad studied the question very hard, he had a good memory, and it was not possible any one c >uld know more about the early times of t' is I o* lony than he did. If Governor Fitz Roy was coerced it was not by the European population. [Mr. Kuct - land: It was by money.] If be was coerced it was by the natives who had sold the land. [Mr. Williamson : Who stirred up the natives ?] As to the Europeans coercing the Government, it wad all moonshine from begining to end. Mr. BUCKLAND: It was well known that a person, who was then in Auckland, used to receive large sums from parties having these claims to look after their interests, and th t bd was in constant communication with the natives (hear). The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY. Why.it certainly was the case that, when their engagements were not kept, the natives were kept up to the mark (bear, hear). Some hon. member contended that it would be expensive ; how much money was thrown away on matters not connected with justice f But he would give over talking about justice? in that Council (ironical cries of he-ir). Mr. Dignan bad objected that the Bill did rot go far enough, and should include the Od Land Claims. He (Mr. Carleton) wished he could do so, but was afraid if hj» did, it would endanger the o'jectof this Bill—which was to get in tbe " little end of tbe wedge'' (bear, hear, and laughter). Mr. BUCKLAND then proposed as an amendment "that the Bill be read that day six mouths," which was seconded by Mr. Willitmaon, and negatived. The Bill was then read a second time and made an order of the day for to-morrow (Friday). QUESTION TO PROVINCIAL SECRETARY. Mr. WILLIAMSON gave notice of his intention on Friday to ask the hon. member of the Executive (the Provincial Secretary) whether the Superintendent had complied with the P2th clau-e of the Constitution Act, to issue a writ forthwith for a new member for the Pensioner Settlements, to fill the seat vacated by Mr. Powditcb. Also to ask on what day the Superintendent had received Mr. Puwditch'a resignation. The Impounding Bill was advanced in Committee, and the Council adjourned until Friday. FRIDAY, Feb. 22. Present —The Speaker and 19 members. QUESTION TO PROVINCIAL ItCIIftABV. Mr. WILLIAMSON had the following notice on the paper :—To ask the hon. member for tbe Bay of Islands, with reference to the election of a member ftr the Pensioner Settlements in room of Mr. Powditcb, resigned, whether his Honour the Superintendent has yet complied with the provisions of the l'Jth clause of the Constitution Act, which requires that whenever the Superintendent shall be satisfied that the seat of any member of the Provincial Council shall become vacant, be "shall forthwith issue a writ for the election of a new member to serve in the place'so vacated. Also, to ask the. same hon. member on what day his Honour the Superintendent received Mr. Powditeh's letter of resignation. As he (Mr. W.) understood that the writ had a length been issued, he would confine himself to the latter question. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that as both que-s-.iona were embodied in one. he would atlßWer both. The writ lied b.-en issued; and Mr. Powditcirs letter was received on the 9ih of February. COM MI TIKE ON THE ACCOMMODATION Or THE PRESS. Mr. J. O'NEILL moved that the report of the Committee on the accommodation of the Press be adopted. Agreed to. RECONSIDERATION OF STANDINO RULES. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY moved with reference to the second clause omitted of the Interpretation Bill, that the Standing Rules and Orders be reconsidered. This was for the purpose cf making a verbal amendment in clause 2 in the Standing Rules and Orders, and stood over on a point of torm. Mr. J. O'NEILL drew attention to rule 43, relating to the Council going into committee immediately alter the second reading of a bill, in which he suggested . n alteration. Mr. MERRIMIN, though agreeing with the hon. member, that the iule as it stoo.i might occasionally cause some inconvenienc-, thought it would be unwise to alter it, sine , if they once commenced, there wai« no knowing where they would have to S'op. He wouid beg to observe that the other day he certainly understood that the L»nd Regulation! were only to be considered pro forma, and left on that mule-standing; but, to b s surprise, be found from the journal-, that the fir.t iliuse had been passed abs< lut I>■ ( hear, hear). The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY was understood to differ from Mr. Merrimau's statement of ihe question, which that hon. member affirmed was the conect one. CATTLE BBANDINQ BtLL. Tbe Council w. Nt into committee on this bill, the consideration of which was postponed until the end of the session, in order that the opinion of country settlers might be procured on tbe subject. TUG IMPOUNDING BtLL Was advanced a few stages. THB PRC-KMPTfVE LAND CLAIMS BILlj On the motion of Mr. Merriman, was r«f*ri«d to a i Select Committee. Some discussion took place on the general principle of the "Measure, a notice of which we mu« defer tdi our next issu<\ The Council then adjourned to next Tuesday.