HOUSE OF REPRESENTATINES. 10th September, 1868. THE "NO CONFIDENCE" MOTION—MR CAMPBELL'S SPEECH.

North Otago Times, Volume XI, Issue 349, 25 September 1868, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATINES. 10th September, 1868. THE "NO CONFIDENCE " MOTION —MR CAMPBELL'S SPEECH.

SPEECH. The adjourned debate wfciRresumed on the financial statement, and on the motion of want of confidence, moTed as an amendment by Mr Fox. Mr Campbell said when he moved the adjournment of the debate on the pievious evening, it was with no intention of impeding the ordinary progress of discussion on the annual financial statement, but in order to give honorable members an opportunity of carefully considering the proposals of the honorable member for Rangitikei. Since the adjournment of the debate he, and no doubt other honorable members, had been able carefully to consider the proposals which had been laid before the House. When he considered the magnitude of these proposals, their importance, and the result which would ensue from them in future years to this Colony, lie thought it behoved every honorable member who had given to this question any consideration, to place the Committee in possession of his views on the financial condition of the country. He was very glad indeed that they had been enabled to consider these proposals, and when he suid this, he meant that large section of the House who approached the consideration of this question with a desire not to turn any G-ovcrnment out of office, and put another in. but to consider them as they affected the future welfaro of the Colony. He repeated that it was a matter of congratulation that they had politics enunciated from the Government and the leader of the Opposition. He must say he listened t o the Bpeech of the honorable member for Raugitikoi with a certain amount of regret, because lie felt that the Bpeech did not express his individual policy, but that it was a policy made up by a particular section of that House who supported him, and who insisted that their particular views should be enunciated. When he heard the honorable gentleman refer to the limit to be placed on the expenditure on Native affairs, he could not i but arrive at the conclusion that this was the view of the honorable member for the Goldfields, and of several other honorable members who thought with him. Then, on the question of the dissolution of the partnership between the Provinces and the Colony, he looked upon that portion of the speech as representing the views of the* honorable member for Avon. Then again, when he looked upon the latter portion of the speech, which stated that there should bo no fuither borrowing in the Provinces, ho felt there also that the views of the honorable member for sJelwyn were embodied ; and on the question of reduction of taxation, lu looked upon the remarks made as not addressed to that House, but to the outside country. Ho thought the House had heard the financ al explanations of the Hon. the Postmas-ter-General, now the Acting Colonial Treasurer, with a great amount of pleasure, because he believed that the financial policy then enunciated would commend itself to the country at largo, and ho was glad that they had been given the opportunity of considering the subjects beiore them, which a week's holiday enabled them to do. In the remarks which ho wished to addressed to the House he did not intend to make any hostile remarks on tbo Government proposals, but rather to consider them in a fair and not in a hostile spirit. The first portion of the financial statement dealt with the difficulties which existed in keoping the accounts between the Provinces and the Colony, and ho behoved that the main reason of those difficulties had resulted from what he might call the disastrous system of maintaining a financial partnership between the Provinces and the Colony. He behoved that from this had arisen all the complication and uncertainties in finance which had occupied not ODly the time of that House, but the tinio of many ol the Provincial Councils ; and he believed that oil the discontinuance of that partnership many of the evils which ha. I been complained of, and justly complameu. ol, would cease. He felt convinced that the present system of keeping these accounts was not satisfactory, and that it mi^ht be considerably simplified, aud hoped by the appointment of a departmental commission many of the evils which had been complained of would be removed. The second portion of the financiil statement dealt with the clam s and counter-claims of the Imperial and Colonial Governments, and to his mind, the settlement of those claims was eminently satisfactory ; for he believed that if they had not been settled, Mr Fitzherbert would not have been able to bring the mission on which he was sent to so successful a conclusion. Alth ugh the Colony might have said in its advertisements that, as regarded its position, the Imperial Government owed it L900,0U0 ; yet it could not be denied that there was a counter-claim for L800,000, which would have to be regarded as a contingent liability, aud it could not be doubted that the claims of the Imporial Government would have obtained more credence in the English money market than those of the Colony. The next subject referred to was the falling-off in the revenue ; and he thought, when they considered the resons to which were due the present falling off in the Customs revsnue, they must feel convinced that there was no cause for doubt or alarm for the future. When they considered that two of the most important industries in the country, the production of cereals, had Buffered severely from the low price which had existed previous to the last six months, and when they considered that the fall in the price of wool alone had resulted in a loss to the Colony of about half-a-million in the last year, and had thereby removed so much from the circulation of the Colony, and wheu they considered that the production of gold had also decreased, ho thought they could not wonder at the falling-off in the revenue. It must also be remembered that this was due to other matters, uniongst which was the fact that the large sums of English capital which ha J been introduced through the medium of loans to the Colony and Provinces had ceased, and that to the removal of these sources was also duo a considerable portion of fcho falhng-off in the Customs revenue. But, when they considered also that this revenue was mainly derived from the abuse of means and squandering of capital indulged in by classes of the community which in other countries would not have been so indulgent to themselves, and when they took a wide view of what was required for the real progress of a Colony, he thought the falling-off of the revenue, viewed in this light, was rather a matter of satisfaction than of regret. He had looked most carefully at tho returns which had been laid before the House by the Registrar-Gene-ral, and by those he saw that the population had largely lucreased ; he saw also that tho imports and exports of the Colony had increased, and he also perceived that the quantity of land which had been brought from a state of nature into a state of cultivation had considerably increased. When he considered all those subjects, he could not look upon the present position of the Colony as other than one of remarkable prosperity, and he looked upon the increased thriftmoss of the people as indicating a power to bear the burden of local taxation, upon which alono local selfgovernment could be carried out. Ho could imagine a country possessing a people of idle aud luxurious habits, who, from one source or other, either from the ferlility of its soil, or from the introduction of foreign capital, would be enabled to maintain a large Customs revenue j but ho could not look upon that people as in any way really carrying out tho great principles of colonisation, when wasting their time and resources in drinking and other such habits, without in any way really adding to the material wealth of the conntry. He judged of the wealth of a country by the increase in its population — by its accumulated wealth, by a diminished rate of intorcst, by tho extent of its exports and imports, and by the increased fertility and productive powers of its soil ; and when he looked upon New Zealand from this point of view, he felt that it was in a very satisfactory position. Ho must however admit, that the large falling off in the Customs revenue was a great embarrassment to the Government in the administration of the affairs of the country, from the fact that the Government were unable to reduce their departmental expenditure at so short a notice its the falling-off in the revenue would require it to do. There was no doubt, aud he felt sure that on all sides of the House, whether they agreed with the Government on the main questions of tlioir policy or not, it would be acknowledged that great credit was due to them ior having reduced the expenditure of the country. In order to arrive at that result the Government must have had a

most unpleasant and disagreeable task to perform j and he might »ay frankly that he would not hare been in their position, and hare had to discharge officers, many of whom had large families and groat claims on the country — he would not have occupied their position for any sum of money. He felt that the thanks of the House and of the country at large were due to the Government for haying reduced the expenditure so considerably as they had done, and he only hoped they would proceed in the task they had undertaken. It was no gratifying or pleasant one, but he hoped during the next year they Would still carry on as far 1 as possible the reduction which they had already initiated. He did not mean by this a reduction in the salaries paid to officers, but rather a reduction by means of grouping offices, and by dispensing with those that they could do without. He now came to another subject to which the last was very closely allied : he meant tho reduction in the taxation of the country. Any honorable member who had looked through the financial statement, and had carefully considered the figures contained in it, must arrive at this conclusion, that reduction of taxation this year was an utter impossibility. His honorable friend the member for Rangitikoi charged the Government with a desire to maintain the present high rate of taxation, and charged them with showing no desire to reduce it ; but he must say, when the hon. gentleman made that charge, he looked to him to show by figures, by any logical argument, or bj any means whatever, that he himself was able to do so. But what did tho honorable gentleman do ? He said that he would add to the amount payable to the Provinces a sum of L18.000 ; whereas the Acting Colonial Treasurer showed that to maintain the sor« vices of the present year he would have a balance of only L318 to work upon. The honorable gentleman, by no logical argument, and by no figures whatever, had shown that it was possible for the House to re* duce the taxation at tho present time, and he knew perfectly well that it was an utter impossibility. Tha next portion of the subject to which he would refer was the adjustment of the accounts between the Provincial and Colonial Governments. If he had hii own way in the matter, ho would make no adjustment whatever ; for he considered that if Nelson and Wellington, and one or two other Provinces, had been anticipating their land revenue, and selling their land at low prices ; and if they were through that in a position not to be able to carry on those works which were peculiarly chargeable upon the Provinces, to them no consideration was due. In his opinion those Proj vince9 which had sold laud at low prices, and thereby rendered themselves incapable of introducing people to the country, were not entitled to consideration ; whilst those Provinces which had been thrifty, which had only anticipated by loan a small portion of theie 1 landed estate, and who were now in a position to bring into this country a large number of people — • these were entitled to consideration. If ho were asked to settle this matter, without consideration to party purposes, that was tho course which he would pursue ; but ho could not help recognising that tho Government were in this position, that upon questions of policy and expediency, they must consent to some adjustment, and for reasons of expediency and policy alone did he think they wero justified in doing bo. It had been often said in that House, at least he had heard it in lobbies and other places, that it would be possible to make tho adjustment upon tho basis of population. He contended that that would be impossible. He contended that tho exceptional position of tho population of this country, which varied every week in the places which it occupied, could not be a basis upon which to make this adjustment ; nor did he think that the Customs revenue derived from each place would be a fair basis. They would have to consider the whole three questions together ; tho power of the Province to maintain a large population in tho future; its present power of introducing a population ; and the estate which it had available for s .ch purpose. He was therefore not prepared to say now on what basis he should do it, for he considered it a most difficult matter ; but he would say that the House should endeavor as far as possible to bring to the consideration of tho subject no party or pro- 1 vincial considerations, but to deal witli it as a wholo, and at the same time with us little injustice to tho diiforent districts as possible, because he could not deny to hiB own mind that some injustice must tuko place ; but the groat object they had all at heart was sufficient to justify even » certain amount of injustice. The Government stated, with regard to tho adjustment, that they were prepared to receive suggestions not from their opponents but from those who gave them a general and cordial support, and that they did not hold themselves bound by the particular items they had stated. In opposition to the adjustment proposed by the Government they had tho proposals of the honorable member for Kangitikei, and he must say that lie could not look on them favorably. The honorable member proposed to hand over to the Provinces 30a. per head to meet their interest and sinking fund and other purposes ; but to his mind that would not dissolve tho partnership, but rather maintain it, for it was well known to honorable members that by the Finance Acts of the last session the General Government was bound to pay the interest and sinking fund, and therefore tho only course for the Government would be, if that proposal was carried, to carry to the credit of the Provinces 30s. per head, and pay the interest and sinking fund on loans, and then pay the balance, if any, to the Provinces. What was tho difference between tho honorable member's proposals and the maintenance of the present system ? Whether you gave them three-eighths of the customs or 30s. per head, each itom could be easily ascertained, and therefore he maintained that the proposals of the Opposition would continue the present system of partnership between the Provinces and the Colony. The Government proposed the continuance of 7s. per head for a certain specified object to the Provinces, but he would prefer to make no payment whatever to thorn, but rather that the Government should take over the police and gaols, and make no payment whatever to the Provinces. He believed that the administration of justice should bo in the hands of the General Government, and that all connected with it should be under the control of those who appointed the magistrates ; he had never failed to hold that view, and held it now, and thought it undesirable that it should be otherwise, whether from motives of policy or expediency. He opposed the proposal of capitation allowance of 30s. per head on the ground that we should bo unable to reduce taxation, for if the Treasurer came down next year and said there was a surplus of L100,000, there would be immediately a scramble for it on the part of the Provinces, and if the provincial party were powerful enough, they would theu increase the capitation allowance to L2, or whatever figure circumstances might allow. Tne question was this : having certain balances in the Treasury, were they to be given over to tho Province or devoted to the reduction of taxation P and thinking as he did that tho proposals of the Opposition would only tend to maintain tho system of taxation, for that reason alone ho would support the Government in their present proposals. He listened with great interest to the speech of the honorable member for Nelson, and ho could only look upon it as agreeing in the mam with the proposals of the Government, except with regard to the honorable member's own Province ; but with regard to his proposal that tho interest and tho sinking fund on loans should bo borne by an income and property tax, he (Mr Campbell) felt perfectly sure that he should never be one to put on the people of the Colony so harsh, inquisitorial, and unjust a burden as that. A great deal had been said in tho House about the reduction of taxation, and he for one should be glad to see it carried out, but ho was not constantly in the habit of addressing meetings of working men on the unjust system of taxation, and endeavoring to excite their minds against the propertied class of the country, ior he did not believe that the working classes were suffering so harshly from taxation as the farmerB and trading olasses of the community. It was not, and yet it was the laboring class who were so often appealed to to assist in removing tho alleged burdens. He wished to point out how he considered the future burden of the loans would be borne in this Colony. He had always been of opinioi, from his knowledge of tho North Island, that it would ultimately carry a far larger population than the Middle Island, and would consequently boar a larger portion of tho interest and sinking funds of tht» loans. Mombors from tho Middle Island, when h« stated that in the House last

oession, jeered at it ; but ns he did not now hear such joors ho was inclined to beliovo their opinions had undergone a material change j and he assorted that, if they oxcepted the norimil production of gold, they ■would find the production of the Northern Island, on'tho basia of population, on about an equality with that of the Middle Islaud ; and when thoy considered that every aero available in the latter was at present occupied in some si ape or another, \> hilo the people of the North wore limited to a small area at present, it must bo evident to honorable members that tho Northern Island was capable of u'timatoly maintaining tho larger population. These wero amongst fcho reasons ho had adduced to his constituents for maintaining the union of the colony, and he should ever bo oppose! to any system tending to sever the connection now existing. There was one question ho regretted the Government had not brought under tho consideration of tho Houso, and that was as to future loans to the Provinces for roproductiro purposes, for although he waf opposed fit tho present moment, as he believed all sections of the Houso wore, to any increase of tho indebtedness of the Colony, yet, from the knowledgo he had of tho Middle Island, he could not but feel that further loans would be roqiured, m order to increase the prosperity of tho country, within the next few ycara. He could seo it would bo vovy desirable as a question of policy and expediency to grant to tho Middle Island— aud even to tho North Island, when suflicieut security was shown — loans for the purposes of immigration and reproductive public works ; but those, of course, should be earned out under proper supervision j and ho thought that tho meeting these loans could ba achieved by a specific Bccurity set apart, such as the pastoral rents or soino other available source. When thoy considered that every thousand people brought here would tend to dimmish the burden of taxation on the remainder, ho asserted that the Houso must reg.u'd tho prospect of a future increaso in the indebtedness of tho Colony for the purpose mentioned as most desirable. The honorable member for Newton made an eloquent aud able speech, a9 he always did ; but unfortunately his speeches lost much from constant repetition, and the only novel portion of it, to his mind, was an assertion that the Government had not bocn watchful, more particularly with reference to the bar of Manukau harbor, the removal of buoys, and other matters in connection with that distnet, and that appeared to be the vt hole subject of the honorable member's reproach to Government ; but whether he implied by it that the whole time of tho Government should be occupied in watching the bar, he (Mr Campbell) could not ascertain. The lion, member for Dunodin City stated that his constituency had been sacrificed, and he was much surprised to hear him make that assertion, as he did not think the Government or the Houso had any reason to enquiro whether the constituency of the honorablo member had been sacrificed by his election. The honorablo member also said that the Government had secured their support by bribing members ; but that had been the constant cry of honorable members when disappointed with tho result of divisions, and ho could say on behalf of s large section of tho House, and would say for himself, and as often as the honorable member made any allusion to such a subject he would get up and deny it, lor he had never received any remuneration, directly or indirectly, from the Government. To revert to tho proposals of the Government, he Baw therein four great principles carried out — dissolution of the partnership between the Provinces and tho Colony ; prospect of reduction of taxation ; certainty of reduction of expenditure j and, above all things, certainty of tho maintenance of the unity of the Colony. In the proposals of the Opposition he saw — a certainty of no reduction of taxation, a certainty that the expenditure would be maintained, and no prospect of a dissolution of a partnership of accounts; and therefore he believed that those proposals could only result in one thing — that was, a dissolution of Union between the two Islands.