Provincial Council.

Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume XX, Issue 43, 18 May 1861, Page 2

Provincial Council.

Friday, May 10. Present : The Speaker, the Provincial Secretary, the Provincial Solicitor, Drs. Monro and Renwick, Messrs. Wells, Dodson, Saunders, Hewetson, Mackay, M'Rae, Kelling, Kerr, M'Mahon, Horn, Gibbs, and Elliott. The minutes of the preceding day were read and confirmed. THE GOVERNMENT WHARF. Mr. Kelling moved " That his Honour the Superintendent be requested to furnish the.Council with a statement of the amount received for wharfage and otherwise at the Government wharf since its completion, and the expense incurred in collecting the same." He said the Government wharf had cost the province a considerable cum, and be thought the public should know the amount of money collected, and the cost of collecting the same. Mr. Horn seconded the motion, which was unanimously adopted. 'CATTLE BRANDING ORDINANCE. Mr. M'Rae moved " That the Government be requested to bring in a bill to amend the CattJe Branding Ordinance." He said that several reasons had induced him to request an amendment of the Cattle Branding Act, which, on the points he would name, was very defective. The clauses relating to the defacing of the ear-marking of sheep, while they inflicted penalties on those who defaced an ear-mark, made no provision against the set of those who altogether removed the ear from the sheep, thereby at once removing all previous private marks. Some people punched a hole in a sheep's ear, others slit the ear, some cut oft* the points of the ears ; but how could any one identify his sheep if any owner were permitted altogether to remove the ear, which in numerous cases would be found to bear no less than a dozen marks [hear, hear]. It was* the wish of all the run holders in the Amuri that a clause preventing the removal of the ears of the sheep should be embodied in the Cattle Branding Act. It was strictly prohibited in Scotland, in a pastoral district, to shorten the ears of sheep. Again, parties by the present state of the law, can, without giving any previous notice, drive sheep across any one's run, thereby frequently, accidentally perhaps, driving with their flock sheep which did not belong to them, or taking across a run sheep suffering from scab. In Canterbury it was imperative that twenty-four hours' notice should be given of the intention of any one to drive sheep across another's run, and, in addition, to register his brand at the office of the Registrar of Brands. He thought that these two subjects at least should be embodied iv the Cattle Branding Act. Mr. M'Mahon seconded the motion. The Provincial Solicitob said, before the resolution was put he should like to know what alterations were required. Mr. M'Rae repeated his observations with reference to the want of an enactment preventing the shortening of sheep's ears, and the unrestrained travelling of sheep across persons' runs without previous notice as to the brand. The Provincial Secbbtaby said he thought Mr. M'Rae's object was exceedingly clear, and that he quite coincided with him. Mr. Dodson said that there was no necessity for such cruelty being practised towards sheep as to cut their ears off. Runholders surely could mark sheep on the hoof. The motion was then unanimously adopted. WAIMEA-EASTSROAD BILL. Mr. Keeling moved the second reading of the Waimea-east Road Bill. He said that the report of the select committee upon this proposed road had been adopted yesterday. The report said that the road was required ; he would therefore move the second reading of the bill. Mr. Kerb seconded the motion, which was unanimously adopted. Bill read a second time. Mr. Kelling moved that the Council go into committee upon the bill, with Mr. Saunders in the ebair. Mr. Kebb seconded the motion, which was unanimously adopted. * The Council then went into committee upon the bill, and it having been passed without amendment, it was so reported, and the Council resumed. NEW LIGHT HOUSE. Mr. Mackay moved " That Ids Honour the Superintendent be requested to put such a sum on the Estimates as the Provincial Engineer may consider sufficient to meet the expense of erecting the new lighthouse daily expected from England, and also such oilier sums as may be required to meet the current expenses of the same." He said he was glad to learn that the Government was at last likely soon to receive the lighthouse, though he saw no provision upon the estimates for erecting it, or maintaining it when erected. Mr. M'Rae seconded the motion. The Provincial Sbcbetaby said if the honourable member had looked at the Estimates with his usual accuracy, he would have seen the sum of £800 set apart for the lighthouse, and that was expected to cover the expense of erecting it. No provision had been mado for the salary of any one to take care of it, because it had been pretty generally understood that the General Government would take the management of all lighthouses, paying of course out of local funds, but removing them from provincial control. Mr. Saunders said it was unnecessary that the Council should pass any resolution upon this subject j a sum had been placed upon the Estimates, and if it were thought detirous tomcrwteit, that could be don* i when th* Sftimatef irere nndor eontkfentknh

Mr. Mackay having replied, the motion was unnnimously adopted.

SIGNALLING- COASTERS. Mr. Mackay movod " That his Honour the Superintendent be requested to procure from the Harbour Master a report as to the practicability of signalizing the coasters at the station on Britannia- Heights, and also the cost of erecting a separate staff, &c, if another one is recommended for that purpose." He said, doubtless the Council would he almost t ired of hearing his motions with respect to harbour improvements, but he had brought forward this motion because many persons were anxious to learn the arrival of the different coasting vessels. The Pilot seemed to think that with but the present flagstaff it could not be managed, yet others had informed him that iv Wellington it is done. The signalman was already there, it therefore but required the settlement of some plan, and perhaps the cost of an extra flagstaff. Dr. Renwick seconded the motion. Mr. Saundeiis said he presumed that by " a separate staff, &c." Mr. Mackay meant only a flagstaff, and not a staff of officers [laughter].

The motion was unanimously adopted. TSE S.EB DEER.

Mr. Horn moved the suspension of the standing orders so that he might submit to the Council r resolution thanking the Captain of the Dona Anita for the great care he bestowed in bringing the red deer in safety to Nelson.

Mr. M'Mahon seconded the motion.

Dr. Monho said the red deer at present were the property of Mr. Elliot, and that if the Council thanked any one, they should include Lord Petre, and the gentlemen in England who had shipped the deer. He | thought Mr. Horn's proposition was not timely, the deer being still the property of Mr. Elliot, who, however, was very anxious to give them to tlio province • when satisfied that they would bo properly cared for. Mr. M'Rae said the whole question being in the ' hands of a committee, he thought it should be left to • them to thank those who had so kindly forwarded the ] deer. He had heard Mr. Morrison promise Mr. Elliott these deer, and could not imagine why persons should fancy that they belonged to the province. Mr. Elliott, he was aware, had very kindly offered the deer to the province if the authorities would satisfy him that they would be properly cared for. Mr. Saunders said certain honourable gentleman j seemed very desirous of making the thanks of the j Council as cheap as they could. He supposed that ] ] the next occasion on which their thanks would be asked , j would be in favour of some one who had brought out , a tortoiseshell torn cat [laughter]. He thought that if the whole thing were considered by the committee j ' already appointed that they would do everything requisite for the gratitude of the province. He would I , much more heartily support a vote of thanks to any one who would iutroduce a few gold-finches to eat up the thistle down, or a few good donkeys. Mr. M'Rae said he did not see any necessity for the proposed vote of thanks. Mr. Elliott had already himself given the Captain of the Dona Anita a very handsome time piece in recognition of his care for the deer. Mr. Hobn then withdrew the motion, and the Council adjourned till Tuesday, at five o'clock. Tuesday, May 14-. Present : The Speaker, the Provincial Secretary, the Provincial Solicitor, Messrs. Kelling, Wells, Mcßae, Parker, Saunders, Kerr, Hewetson, M'Mahon, Sinimonds, Dodson, Baigent, Horn, Gibbe, Elliott, and Mackay. The minutes of the preceding day were read and confirmed. MESSAGE. Message, No. 12, was received from his Honour the Superintendent, inclosing a Gazette containing the report of the Commissioners of Immigration for the year ended the 31st March last. CROWN GRANTS. Mr. Kelling asked the Provincial Secretary the reason why the issue of crown grants for land bought of the Government in this province is delayed for such a length of time. He said he knew instances, of late occurrence, where the issue of crown grants had been delayed at least for twelve months. The Provincial Secretary : Will the honourable member state any case iv which a delay of twelve months in the issue of crown grants has recently occurred ? Mr. Kelling : In my own case. The Pbovincial Secretary : All I can say is that if the honourable member will refer to the Nelson Examiner of some twelve months since he will see that the crown grant, now complaiued about, was then advertised as ready for issue [laughter]. WAIROA BRIDGE! Mr. Saundebs moved " That the report of the Wairoa Bridge Committee be taken into consideration with a view to its adoption." He said he was desirous of acceding to the wish of the Council in considering this report, and would either move that it be considered by the Council as it was now sitting, or that it be discussed in committee. He then moved that the report be read. The report was then read. Mr. "Wells suggested that the consideration of this report should be delayed, as very few members of the Council at present knew anything of the data upon which it had been framed. Mr. Horn said he had a resolution prepared upon this sub ect, which was " That the further consideration of this question be postponed until Tuesday, the 21st instant. He thought that this matter was one of deep interest, and as the sum was of large amount, he considered that the people should have an occasion for the expression of their opinion as to the necessity of at present erecting so costly a bridge. Mr. Wblls then moved " Tliut the further consideration of this question be delayed until Tuesday, the 21st instant. Mr. Horn seconded the motion. Mr. Elliott said he was prepared to oppose the adoption of the report, and was glad that an honourable member for the Waimea had proposed the postponement of its consideration. He could have wished to recommend that the report be rdtared back to the committee for their further consideration. Two sites had been pointed out by the Provincial Engineer ; one in the direct line of the present road j the other deviating from it somewhat slightly. The first would be by far the more expensive, as not only had the main river to be crossed, but a small stream also, and the Provincial Engineer had recommended the adoption of the site naving the narrower span, though somewhat out of the direct line of road. The Provincial Engineer had sent in two plans, one being for a suspension bridge, at an estimated cost of £9,000, the total span of which would be 680 feet, having a middle span of 840 feet, and two ends, each of a span of 170 feet. The second plan was of a tubular iron bridge over the narrower channel ; the total length of that bridge would be 345 feet, being only five feet longer than the centre •pan of the proposed suspension bridge. Now he must lay he was surprised that the committee had not considered whether the suspension principle was capable of adaptation to the narrower site, as he had been informed by a gentleman who thoroughly understood the subject, that a bridge on the suspension principle would cost far leas than a tubular bridge of the same length. In exceedingly heavy floods there might be a alight wash on one side of a bridge over the narrow channel, but that surely was not to warrant them in incurring the very heavy expense of bridging the wider channel and the smaller stream. If |be province could afford to build bridges over our large rivera, which would let travellers cross them dry shod in the heaviest floods, then it must be wealthy indeed [hear, hear]. For his part he thought that if a bridge were erected which would accommodate travellers and keep the roadway free from water in ordinary floods, that was quite as much as could be expected [hear, hear]. The Provincial Solioitob said the Council had probably forgotten a despatch received from the General Government with respect to certain bills passed by thia Council, which stated that whenever it was necessary to pass any measure for the borrowing of money to any considerable extent, the Council must first pass a resolution to that effect, and submit it to the General Government. It would therefore be advisable for the Council, before adopting any resolution upon the subject, to consider what it proposed to do. If it inteuded thftt 5 sum of £0,000 should be borrowed,

then a resolution to that effect must first bo passeJ> for if a bill were passed without that, the Assembly without doubt would disallow it.

Mr. Saunders said he would not oppose the motion for adjournment. He would be very happy that time should be given to honourable members, who, he hoped, would study the evidence laid before the committee previous to this subjeot again coming under discussion. The motion was then unanimously adopted. NELSON MARKET.

Mr. DODSON moved " That the Superintendent be requested to furnish this Council with the amount of money expended iv the erection of a market building, and what money may remain unexpended out of thefive hundred pounds voted by the Council last session, for the preliminary expenses of establishing a market." Ho said honourable members would remember that £500 had been voted in the last session of this Council, and that the Board of Works was to have the laying out of the money, but solely for the purpose of erecting a suitable building on a suitable site for a public market. Instead of so doing, however, they had erected a fine Board of Works office, at an expense of £150 % ana Had gaid. aaouG aaatliGi: £LO(i ta till up « hole where the so called market now stands. It was quite out of the way of all business, and wa3 as unfit as it could possibly be made for the purpose it was i ostensibly designed to serve [hear, hear]. The money laid out in the erection of the office and the cow sheds attached (for they were really nothing better) would have purchased a good business site in a. commanding business position, and have erected a good useful market. He contended that the money had not been expended in the manner contemplated by the vote of this Council [hear, hear], and he should therefore like to know how much had been actually expended upon what the Board facetiously termed a market. If the Board were compelled to refund all the money not so expended, he had reason to believe that a market could yet be built without asking the Council for any more money [hear, hear]. Mr. Kellikg seconded the motion, which was unanimously adopted. MOUTERE ROAD. Mr. Hewetson moved for leave to bring in a bill to authorize the making of a certain road in the Moutere district. Mr. Cubtis seconded the motion. Mr. Parkeb said that before the motion was submitted to the Council he would state that he had been requested by a number of residents in the Moutere to beg this Council to postpone the whole question for a few days. They had but recently seen a report of proceedings in this Council, and were very much surprised to hear that the report of a select committee had been adopted by it. They have desired me to say that in a day or two they will without doubt show the contrary of the allegations made to and believed by this Council. They say that those allegations were false, and that, they will prove them to be so to the satisfaction of the Council [hear, hear]. He was in possession of facts, which, when made known to the Council, would make them pause before plunging the Moutere district into the expense of making a new road, which the inhabitants really did not require. Mr. Simmon DS said perhaps the better course would be for Mr. Parker to move the adjournment of the debate. Mr. Cubtis said the adjournment of the debate could do no possible good. The Council was already in possession of the views of the inhabitants, who by a majority of three to two had petitioned for the new road. Mr. Parker perhaps was not aware that the select committee upon this subject had decided that the best course to pursue was to leave it to the inhabitants to decide [hear, hear]. Messrs. Horn, Elliott, Kelling, Baigent, Mackay, and Sounders having taken part in the debate, Mr. Hewetson replied to their observations, when the motion, as being put to the Council, was negatived. ESTIMATES. The Peovinctai. Secbetaby moved " That the Council resolve itself into Committee to consider the Estimates for the year 1861-2." He said the sources of revenue and the mode of its expenditure were so similar year after year that any observations he might make would be but a repetition of what lie had snid previously. Honourable members would see that the amount estimated to accrue from Customs was the same as that received last year. He thought that ordinarily the Customs might be estimated each year to afford some slight increase, but it must be remembered that last year they had a number of Taranaki refugees, who had served to swell the Customs receipts, therefore the Executive had considered that lSpl-2 would yield about the same as 1860-1. Incidental was a heavy item this year, to be made up principally by the money receivable from the Province of Marlborough as its share of the Provincial debt before separation. Land Revenue, as was well known, was but a speculative amount, which, at best, could but bo roughly guessed at. It depended much on the quantity of land the runholder might be compelled or might see fit to purchase, so as to save himself from being bought out by other persons. In the expenditure he believed that no material alteration had been made ; there had been no cutting down, for the Government was not aware of any reduction they could make which would be of moment to the province. There was one inequality in the proposed expenditure on the various districts caused by the £3,000 required for making the proposed bridge across the Wairoa river, and from that cause the Amuri district would receive less than it otherwise would have done.

Mr. GIBBS complained of the grossly careless and heedless way in which money had been expended at Colling wood, whereby roads, instead of being improved, had been actually made worse, and not a tithe of the good done to that district which might have accrued under abler management. Mr. Elliott said he was desirous of making a few general remarks on the Estimates before the Council went into committee upon them. The Provincial Secretary had made 6oroe admission with regard to the scant amount of money set apart for the Amuri, which he had been pleased to hear. He had also stated that the Council might calculate on the province getting as large a revenue for the ensuing year as had been received in the one just passed ; but he would like to hear from the Prdvincial Secretary what he thought of the probable . land revenue of future years P [hear, hear]. A considerable debt was hanging over this province, and no provision had yet been made for its liquidation, though the day for payment rapidly advanced [hear, hear]. He would like to i know what the Executive intended with regard to the £29,000 of debt; whether they intended to make some provision for its payment when due, or whether they contemplated borrowing again. The Superintendent, in his speech to the Council, had said that it was desirable that the more liberal votes of money to be made by the Council for roads should be for those in outlying districts, leaving the maintenance of roads already made in the settled districts to be provided for by the resident inhabitants. This principle is so just, that he rejoiced to find his Honour was duly impressed with it, and it was the one passage in his Honour's speech that gave him (Mr. Elliott) the mo6t satisfaction. But when he came to look at the Estimates, he found his Honour had done violence to his own sense of right, and that in addition to the unexpended vote of last session, only £8 0 had been set down for public works in the Amuri. When the returns he had moved for of the land sold in, and the money expended on, the Amuri district, were furnished to the Council, he hoped to be able to convince members of the injustice that had been done that district, and induce them to deal more justly with it in future.

The Provincial Secrbtaby then moved " That the Speaker do leave the chair, and that Mr. Mackay be chairman of the committee for considering the Estimates."

Mr. Wells seconded the motion, which was unanimously adopted. Mr. Mackay said he would oocupy the chair upon the condition that, when items came before the committee upon which he wished to address any remarks, he should be allowed to do so.

The Superintendent's Balary was filled up with the usual sum of £500. Upon the next item being proposed, " Provincial Secretary (also Commissioner of Crown Lands)" Mr. Kblmno moved "That the words 'also Commissioner of Crown Lands' be struck out." He said two years

1 since thi3 Council had passed a similar resolution, yet the Executive still proposed to continue the two offices united in one person.

Mr. Saunders said he could hardly suppose that Mr. Kelling had not observed the beneficial result of having the two offices combined. What did Mr. Kclhng propose, to add another salary of £500 to the Estimates ? or would lie do without a second officer ? He could not conceive that the business of the province could be conducted by the Council without the presence of the Provincial Secretary, though he must admit that he would like to see him have a seat in the Council without, a vote, but he could not consent to the division of the two offices.

The motion, after some further discussion, was then negatived. The expenditure on the Audit Department was postponed until the committee now sitting upon that department had reported to the Council. The Balary of the Assistant Surveyor was raised, after some discussion, from £200 to £250 per annum, and that of the Second Assistant from £75 to £100 per annuiu. The next item, which caused some discussion, was " Clothing for X/Uiiatic8 x £30." Mr. Horn said that the lunatics were very 'badly treated, their clothing was very dirty, and in one instance he was aware that the bedding was dirty and filthy in the extreme. He did hope that these most miserably unfortunate people would be supplied at the least with decent clothing. His wife, on one occasion, had kindly washed a lunatic (Mrs. Avery), who was covered with vermin, and had also had to go to several persons in this City for the purpose of begging a little clean underclothing for her.

The Provincial Secbetaiiy said, why did not the honourable gentleman at once make n complaint to the Government? Medical men are appointed to care for the lunatics, who had not in any one instance been refused any comfort ordered for them [hear, henr]. With regnr'd to the late Mrs. Avery, he must say that her appearance had always struck him as being remarkably cleanly and tidy [hear, hear]. The Government would at once, had they been applied to, have supplied the things so graphically described by Mr. Horn as having been begged from door to door by his wife.

Mr. Hobn said the Provincial Secretary had a habit of laughing away any serious motion, but he would tell him that this at least was no laughing matter.

Mr. Elliott said that, from what had fallen from the honourable member, he should hope that he would at once move for a committee of inquiry into the state of the lunatics [hear, hear]. If the facts stated by Mr. Horn were true, then the medical superintendents of the lunatics were unworthy of the position they held [hear, hear]. Mr. Hobn said he would move for a select committee upon the subject. The committee, having passed several other items, odjourned till Wednesday, and the Council having resumed, the chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again. The Council then adjourned to Wednesday.