GREAT PUBLIC MEETING
TO CONSIDER THE FUTURE FORM OF GOVERNMENT FOR THE COLONY.
The Public Meeting, called in consequence of the announcement by Lord John Russell and Mr. Hawes in the House of Commons, in May last, of the intention of Ministers to introduce a Bill for the immediate establishment of Representative Government in New Zealand, took place here on the 27th ultimo. The immediate object of this meeting, as stated in the advertisement which had called it, was, "to consider whether it might not be advisable to recommend certain provisions suited to the requirements of New Zealand, to be submitted to her Majesty's Ministers, with a view to their being embodied in the proposed Bill." It had been announced that the meeting would be held in the Court-house, but the interest which it was perceived the subject had awakened in the public mind, made it manifest that a building of much greater dimensions would be necessary to contain the persons likely to attend. Fortunately, the large Booth erected for the convenience of the School examination, was a most eligible building ; and an application to Mr. Campbell met with that gentleman's ready assent to allow the meeting to take place there, instead of in the Court-house. The attendance, considering the limited number of our population, and how widely it is scattered, was very great indeed. We may safely say that three hundred persons attended the discussion, which lasted altogether nearly eleven hours ; and allowing for those who came and went, and did not stay through the whole proceedings, we think there must have been at least four hundred persons who were present some time during the discussion.
Mr. F. D. Bull, on being called to the chair, expressed his thanks to the meeting for the compliment paid to him by being asked to preside. This was the most numerous meeting he ever recollected to have seen in Nelson, and he was very glad to find that on the important subject they were about to consider, so many of the settlers had assembled from all parts to record their opinions. While it would be his duty to conduct the business of the meeting with impartiality, and ensure to every speaker a fair and patient hearing, it was theirs to bring to the consideration of the matters they were about to discuss an open and candid mind, and an earnest determination to adopt no proposal without the full conviction that it was based on truth and justice ; to reject none hastily or inconsiderately. This meeting differed from most of those that had been called in Nelson of late years. Generally speaking, the settlers had assembled either to deliberate on matters affecting the interests of one or other section of the community, or to give judgment on subjects relating to the welfare of Nelson only. But this assembly was here to debate the great question of what recommendations they should offer to the Minister of the Crown for the proposed legislation in the ensuing session of Parliament. And as they would take upon themselves a high trust and a grave responsibility in all their resolves that day, so they ought well to bear before them that upon the manner in which they executed that trust and fulfilled that responsibility would depend whether any weight should attach to their decisions in the minds of statesmen at home, or of critics in other places. It happened at this time that not only Parliament, and the most eminent politicians in England, were admitting the propriety of granting free constitutions to the colonies, but that the inhabitants of the colonies were themselves proposing the forms of constitution which they deemed adapted to their separate positions and interests. Now it was the duty, as it was the privilege, of all colonists to remember that they belonged to one great empire, and that whatever they proposed for themselves must bear the test of adaptation to the interests of that empire as a whole, and not merely to the interests of separate sections of it. He told this meeting therefore, that if their resolutions were grounded on large, comprehensive, and English principles, they would be irresistible by the Queen's Ministers : but if on the contrary they were based on merely selfish reference to the requirements of this particular settlement, they would afford a fair opportunity for sarcasm and derision, and would justify any opponents iv denouncing the meeting as incapable of doing what it had imposed on itself to do, and its proceedings as undeserving of regard from stern and earnest men. He knew something of official life, and of the resistance to innovation which actuated the official mind, always bent on saving itself trouble. Nothing rejoiced the redtapists, perplexed the friends of useful reform, or fretted a statesman desirous of doing what was best, so much as a number of schemes and projects from distant places on the same question. The latter finds it impossible to discover wide principles in the incongruous mass, and gives up in despair the attempt to legislate for so many conflict, ing interests : the former gladly seizes the excuse for shovelling all the propositions together into the official drawer, or consigning them to oblivion on the shelf. He (the Chairman) begged the meeting therefore to weigh their resolutions that day with due reference to the probable wants of Wellington and the other settlements, and to adopt only such proposals as should embrace the interests of the whole colony : above all, he called upon every one there to make no secret of his opinion, but to speak freely out. This was no time for any man v?ho had thought upon the subjects that would engage their attention, to withhold his judgment, or to shrinV from a temparate advocacy of what he deemed right. It was too much the practice for those who held opinions unsupported perhaps by a party, to refrain from tbe expression of their own vie\»s, out of a mistaken deference to b presumed majority : it was that very assumption
of people having made up their minds and of deliberation being n solemn farce, which he (the Chairman) desired to combat. And while he repeated his assurance of a fair hearing to every one that might address them, he relied on the meeting to support him by a patient and courteous attention to each speaker, and by that recognition of fair motives and conscientious opinions which was at once the best encouragement to unreserved discussion, and the greatest security for a worthy result.
Mr. Stafford said, he had the honour to propose the first Resolution which would be offered to their notice that day. And he unaffectedly and sincerely did esteem it an honour to have the privilege of first addressing, what the Chairman had most properly termed, the very largest public meeting ever assembled in Nelson, and called together for the most important purpose which could interest the inhabitants of any country. They had not assembled, as on former occasions, to discuss a subject of mere temporary interest, or affecting a section of the community only, but they had met to deliberate on a question of the highest moment to all, to determine what formof Govern, ment they believed most adapted to the wants of themselves and their children. As this constitution of Government which they trusted would be moulded upon the recommendations forwarded from this meeting, might work well or ill, would these recommendations, in so far as they were permitted to determine its form, be hereafter a subject of praise or blame, of pride or regret, to those from whom they emanated ? It was indeed a responsibility, the magnitude of which he felt in its fullest extent, to attempt to devise a scheme of government which would not only affect the present inhabitants of New Zealand, but the operation of which would influence the future happiness, social relaitons, and national character, of a country destined, from its geographical position, harbours, climate, and internal resources, but above all from its having been colonised by the Anglo-Saxon race, to occupy in this hemisphere the proud position which, in the northern one, was held by that great nation from which they were descended. Feeling deeply the responsibility thus attached to their proceedings, he yet believed that an imperative sense of duty required that no one should refuse to assist in the present work. Those who emigrated to New Zealand had encountered a considerable amount of risk by the mere act of emigration, and they had displayed the determination and energy necessary to contend against that risk, and the successive chances of failure attendant upon the establishmeut of a new country — let them not fail now in showing an equal amount of determination and energy in the endeavour to establish such a system of government for the future as would prevent their previous exertions from proving comparatively fruitless and nugatory. Let them declare their opinions fearlessly, conscientiously, and unmistakeably. Every man must now make up his mind one way or the other on the Resolutions submitted to the Meeting. There was no longer any time for doubt, hesitation, or delay, for within twelve months from this day they might expect the arrival of that constitution which must have such a powerful influence over the future. Le them therefore prove themselves worthy of handling the great questions which must so soon come before them. And he would most earnestly entreat the Meeting not to allow any internal differences of opinion to weaken their external efforts, but to banish all feelings of personal or party hostility, to consider the measures recommended to their notice, not the men who recommended them — to remember that whatever parties might in future devide their councils, (as no one entertained so Utopian a belief as that such parties would net exist here as elsewhere) to-day there could be but two parties — on the one side that of the colonists asking fo r their just rights, the rights possessed by their forefathers, the right of the uncontrolled power of legislation on all questions affecting themselves — and, on the other, that of the British Parliament and people who could give or withhold those rights, [cheers.] If they were united and temperate, yet determined in their conduct, they would have the powerful aid of many friends at home who were resolved to support the colonists in all reasonable demands, and in the Resolutions which would be adopted this day he believed they would demand nothing but what was reasonable and just. Most certainly the recommendations contained in the resolution which he was about to propose were both reasonable and practicable. (Mr. Stafford here read the Resolution.) They would see that two questions were embraced in this Resolution ; first, the constitution of the future Legislature into two Houses, and, secondly, the attachment of responsibility on the part of the Executive Government to those Houses. With respect to the first subject, he believed, after the most mature reflection, that it was not only the best mode which could be devised, but that it was the only one calculated to bestow on their future Councils that calm deliberative character so necessary to obtain for them, both here and at home, that consideration and weight, without which they could be attended with no useful result. He believed from his knowledge of the Nelson settlers, that their councils were entitled to consideration far beyond that generally afforded to the opinions of communities of the same numerical amount. The proceedings at the many public meetings he had witnessed in this settlement, and more especially at those held within the last four weeks to discuss the questions on which they were to-day, for the last time, to record their decision, had displayed an amount of intelligence, acute criticism, and patient investigation, which would ensure respect for the opinions and resolutions of any community where such was found ; he could not call to memory any instance hitherto in the annals of Nelson where hasty and ill-considered measurei had been adopted ; and he trusted that the future councils of New Zealand would evidence the same mature reflection, the same absence of crudity, as had up to this time been exhibited here. The establishment of two Houses would have this effect — it was an inherent property in the mental constitution of any body of men to criticise, and consider with a feeling of jealousy, the propositions emanting from another body acting independently of them ; there was the desire to prevent any attempt at dictation, which would dispose them to object to, rather than to adopt the measures suggested to them ;— he believed, therefore,
that if you were to take any body of men similarly elected and qualified, ' and divide them at random into two bodies, and then require them to deliberate separately upon any given subject* which admitted of more than one solution, such subjects to be originated and adopted by one body, and subsequently agreed to by the other, that it would be found that infinitely more of objection, doubt, and difficulty, would be started in that body which discussed a subject which had originated in the other, than had accompanied the discussion of the same subject in the first body. Holding theae views, he could not admit, as he had heard stated, that there were not materials for two Houses in this colony. Where there were materials for one House, there were materials for two. He did not want to see an hereditary House of Legislature, as in Great Britain ; a future resolution would point out certain qualifications" for members of the second House, which this colony could easily supply. Whether these qualifications were adopted or not, he did not consider of much importance, so long as no high property qualification was required, and that the office was elective, and not conferred for life ; but that two Houses should exist he most certainly desired. All historcial experience was in favour of such a plan, not only in the monarchies of old countries, but in republican America ; the only exception of any importance which he could remember being the present constitution of France, not two years old, and not sufficiently tried to afford ground for argument either way. He had hitherto recommended the institution of two Houses, because he believed it to be the best mode of itself; he would now suggest that it was not only the best, but the most expedient demand they could make : it was not often that what was most fit was most exnedient: in this instauce, however, fitness andtfxpediency were both in support of the Resolution. They all believed that it was mo»t expedient to get rid of Nominees ; it was therefore expedient to suggest a plan by which Nomineeism could be got rid of, and the Resolution did this. Her Majesty's Ministers would not be likely to assent to the establishment of one House, purely elective ; they would still desire to maintain an element, which never had worked, and never would work harmoniously with the representatives of the people, which was obstructive by intention, or it was useless, and the institution of which argued that there was necessarily a spirit of antagonism between her Majesty's Government, and those over whom they governed. [Cheers.] To demand the presence of Nominees, a class of men unsupported by any one, disavowed and disparaged by the Government itself which nominated them, was tacitly to confess either that some ulterior measures than the good of the colonists were intended, or it was to insult them by the inference that they were not themselves able to judge of what was for their good, or of the persons best fitted to advocate their interests, [cheers.] The Nominee element was alike a reproach to the good faith of the Government which proposed it, alike a stigma upon the people to whom it was proposed, [cheers.] He would now remark upon the recommendation that certain civil officers of the Government should have ex officio seats in the Legislature, which, together with their office, they should vacate upon a vote of want of confidence passed by two-thirds of the whole number of members of both Houses. This clause endeavoured to establish that responsibility to the representatives of the people on the part of the Executive Government, without which representation would be comparatively useless. If an irresponsible Executive were maintained, neither harmony nor unity of action in the several constituent portions of the Government could be expected. The object of all good Government must be allowed to be the power of amalgamating the separate wishes of all having a voice in it with a view to the execution of those measures which would confer benefit on the greatest number. Where the Representative and Executive portions of the Government were mutually dependent, or, he ought rather to say, where the Executive faithfully fulfilled the instructions received from the representatives assembled to determine what was required by the country at large (which was the only office which an Executive was intended to fill, except where, as in this colony, they had usurped the power not only of carrying out the measures required, but of deciding what those measures should be), there only would they find the Government acting in obedience to the wants of those who paid for it, and for whose good it had been called into existence, [cheers.] The plan proposed in the resolution in his hands was not as simple and direct in its action as that in force in Great Britain, but he believed that it was more practicable in the present state of the colony, composed of scattered settlements without any regular communication between them. If the system pursued in England were at once introduced here, he feared it might happen occasionally that those members who could command the greatest amount of support in the Legislature, and who consequently would be entitled to form the Executive, or Ministry, as it was called in Great Britain, might not be able in this country to give up that superintendence of their private affairs which their acceptance of office would entail. The resolution, therefore, permitted the Governor to select as heretofore the officers of the Executive Government where he chose ; he might, and very probably would, where any members deserving office and willing to take it could be found, confer it. upon such members; but in the event of none such existing, the respectives offices could be filled in the best manner possible by not limiting the field of selection, merely requiring that after trial they should possess the confidence of the Legislature. At the same time he preferred, if practicable, the mode of appointing the Executive which obtained at home, and especially because these offices would then become laudable objects of ambition to the present colonists and their descendants, who, separated as they were from all offices of dignity and trust in other parts of the empire, deserved at least that those in their own country should be open to them: whenever, therefore, it was proved to him that the system on which the Imperial Government was based was practicable in New Zealand, he would that moment demand that it should become the law of the colony. He would now leave the Resolution in their hands, entreating them, as had been so impressively done by their Chairman, to consider
thit Resolution, and the others upon which they were now called to decide, caJanly and dispassion ately: and while he trusted that no factious opposition would be offered on the present occasion, he did hope that erery man there would come forward boldly and state his opinions whether in favour of, or adverse to any proposition submitted to the Meeting of which he could not conscientiously approve, and that regardless of whether his views were opposed to the majority ef that meeting or not. The occasion of their assembling was indeed a solemn one; he could not anticipate any other of greater magnitude ; and he hoped that no man there was too apathetic too indolent, or too cowardly, to express his opinions openly and loudly, [cheers] He con gratulated the settlement, he congratulated him self as a member of it, on the attitude of earnest attention, of deep reflection, which it had displayed o* this question; the steady and determined agitation which they had maintained for the last two years, for the purpose of obtaining their just rights-the power of legislating for themselves, had created a spirit in this settlement which wu ?u ne T Bubaide until that P° wer was obtained. Whether the recommendations contained in the resolutions passed that day were immediately granted or not, the Government might rest assured that until they were granted they would persevere in their demand for them, and in the expression of universal and deep-seated dissatisfaction at the withholding of them. Mr. Stafford resumed his seat amidst loud cheers, which were continued for some time. *"J" T » at , ia j he °P inion °f *hi» meeting, the Leiriilature of New Zealand .hould consist of a Governor, wTof twS House, of Representatives, to be called respectively th« Upper and Lower House, all the members of which .hould be elective, except certain civil officers of the Crown not exceeding four in number, who should be newSSt/^ u#«o members of such Legislate, and one at leart of whom should sit in each House: but that no such ex o«cio member should sit in more than one House ; and that "X c* officio members, or any one or more of them, should vacate his or then- seats and office on a vote of want of confidence in such member or members being passed by a majority of not less than two-thirds of the whole number of members of both Houses; and that such Governor, and two House, together, should be called • the Parliament of New Z
Seconded by Mr. D. Moore. Mr. Joilie inquired whether the Legislature spoken of was intended to be a General one, or whether the Resolutions contemplated the system of Provincial Government now existing. This was a point necessary to be cleared up at once, that the Meeting might know to what it was asked to pledge itself. For his own part, though there might be difficulties attending the native question in the north, he yet saw no reason why there should be more than one Legislature and one Executive for the whole of the islands, provided the Government was central. Mr. Roebuck had we.l pointed out the necessity of not making an England, a Scotland, and an Ireland of this country, which ought to be and can be one, and the dangers which would spring from New Zealand having two Legislatures. He (Mr. J.) held a similar opinion, and thought that with the veto possessed by the Governor, and provided a sum of money was yearly voted for the use of the natives, and placed in the hands of the Executive, the interests of the Maories never would suffer from there being a central Government for the whole colony.
Mr. Stafford said that the Resolution before the Meeting asked for one Legislature for the whole of the islands, but, in a subsequent one, as would hereafter be found, it was shown to the Home Government that in the event of the native question in the North being considered a barrier to this request (which this Meeting was not asked to say), that only one Government should exist for what is now called the Southern Province.
Dr. Monro considered Mr. Jollies question very pertinent, and the explanation sought by that gentleman quite necessary. Even after the explanation, he (Dr. M.) did not feel at all sure what was the form of Government recommended. He thought it would have been better if the Resolution had contained either an approval or a condemnation of the system of Provincial Councils. It was true nothing was said about them ; but being in existence, it would have been better if they had been specifically mentioned. With regard to the question of one houie or two, he thought that no single Province could furnish materials for two houses. There was no charm in the mere dividuality of an assembly composed of the same elements. A second house should be composed, if possible, of a class of persons not liable to be affected by the same influences as the first, and who would consider the proposals laid before them from a different point of view. Two houses were undoubtedly the best in theory, but when the materials were not to be found, he thought the formation of two chambers would only prove a cumbrous, unnecessary, and expensive form of Legislature. He would have wished to have seen the first Resolution more explicit, and at the same time simpler.
Mr. J. Macdonald spoke in favour of two houses of Legislature, on the ground that <fne would check and correct the other.
Mr. J. Nixon looked on the present Resolution as a sort of preamble to the others. He saw no difficulty in trusting Native interests to European legislation, for the Governor and the proposed ex officio members of the Council would certainly be sufficient to protect them. A great change had taken place in the Natives, and they were now generally desirous of cultivating our habits and living under our laws. With respect to the number of houses of Legislature, he (Mr. N.) was decidedly in favour of two houses, which was the favourite form of Government among the Anglo- Saxon race. The only instance he could give of a single elective Chamber was in France, and that had as yet given no proof of superiority.
Mr. Greenwood thought that the discussion which had taken place, showed that it would have been better to have the general plan of their proceedings determined upon before considering any isolated proposition, without knowing what was to follow. Before taking the first step, it would be advisable to make up their minds as to the road they intended to travel. He was disappointed that the first speaker had not done this ; but had, on the contrary, laid down premises quite inconsistent with his conclusions. He had begun by stating his wish to assimilate their future Institutions as nearly as possible to those of the Mother Country, and he had ended with a plan
not only unlike that, but any other form of Government in existence. The question would be decided not there, but in the House of Commons ; and whatever amusement they might find in making a Constitution for themselves, its fate at home might easily be predicted. Falling in with the views of no party, it would meet with no support. It would be read, laid on the table, and forgotten. He thought they would act more prudently in taking Sir George Grey's despatch as the basis of their proceedings, and article by article, showing where they agreed with and where dissented from its recommendations. That despatch would, in his opinion, form the groundwork of their future Charter. As to the question before them, it had been said in favour of the double Chamber, that two heads were better than one ; but that would be an argument for a single Chamber ; as to produce any beneficial effect the heads ought to be laid together. He could not see the advantage of having two Chambers so perfectly identical in composition as those proposed : they would not constitute two Chambers, but one divided into two parts. Rather than that, he would suggest a return to what had the advantage of being a real Anglo-Saxon institution, that the Council should deliberate drunk over night and sober next morning, and afterwards compare their decisions. All the advantages of second thoughts might be obtained less expensively by putting a sufficient interval of time between the first, second, and third readings. At the same time, he was not opposed to the principle of two Chambers; but whilst he thought those proposed too similar, he also believed those proposed by Sir George Grey too dissimilar in composition to work well together — some middle term might be devised. He objected also to the control sought for over the Members of Government. It was an infringement on the Prerogative of the Crown, and the end sought was substantially obtained by any body having the right of granting or withholding the supplies. That power was the only one they could fairly claim in its fullest extent ; it involved all others, and ought, in his opinion, to be the almost undivided object of their attention. Mr. Tr avers considered that arguments, like buildings ought to be based upon solid foundations. Mr. Greenwood had, he thought, constructed his argument upon a bad foundation, and he presumed that if he (Mr. T.) succeeded in shewing this to be the case, the opposition given to that part of the Resolution which relates to the formation of the Upper House must fall to the ground. Mr. Greenwood states, that he had never heard of any colonial Legislature created by the Parliament of England, in which the members of both Houses were elective. Now he would take the liberty of reading an extract from Adam Smith's " Wealth of Nations," from which it will be percieved that such a form of Legislature is not without a precedent :— " The Councils which in the colonial Legislatures correspond to the House of Lords in Great Britain are not composed of a hereditary nobility. In some of the colonies, at in three of the Governments of 'New England, those councils are not appointed by the King, but chosen by the representatives of the people." Here was a case in point. It was not stated in the Resolution how the Upper House was to be formed. It is merely stated that all the members of both Houses should be elective, as distinguished from mere nominees of the Crown, but the mode in which the Upper House was to be elected is left entirely to the decision and discretion of the Home Government. But it was not alone Representative Government that was required. Representative Government without responsibility would be a farce. They wished to have a direct control over those who held the purse strings. The supplies were the sinews of Government as well as of war. They wished to know how much was received, and how it was spent (hear). They wished to have the power of calling to account those by whom it was spent, if they found that it had been improperly spent. They wished to have the power of auditing the accounts of their Government. Without such a power, without such a check and control, mere Representative Government would be a solemn farce, (cheers.) Now the Resolution before the meeting contemplated not only a form of Representative Government, but also a form of Responsible Government, which he thought well adapted to the circumstances of the colony. He should prefer that more complete form of Responsible Government which exists in England, but he did not think it so well calculated for this colony at present as that pointed |out by the Resolution. In arguing how the Parliament was to be constituted, let this most material point not be forgotten. Let their cry be not merely for Representative Government, but for Responsible Government. (Cheers). Dr. Mow bo said that Mr. Travers had attempted to refute Mr. Greenwood's argument byreading an extract from a book, but he thought he would have done much better to have kept his book in his pocket. Mr. Greenwood's assertion was, that such a thing as a Legislative body composed of two houses, both elected by the people, was an unheard of form of constitution. In answer to this, Mr. Travers quoted the constitutions of some of the New Kngland States, in which the Legislature consists of two houses, one elected by the people, the other by the representatives. Did Mr. Travers suppose that this was the same thing as two Chambers elected directly by the people? Why, every tyro in political science knew the difference. The second Chamber was one created by a process of double election— a process of filtration in which the people directly had no voice. It further appeared to him that a great part of Mr.Travers's speech had been directed to the demolition of sundry windmills, which he had in the first place taken the trouble to erect. Mr. Travers had spoken as if there were persons in the room who were contending against Responsible Goverment. But he (Dr. M.) did not believe that there was a single such person present. On the contrary, he believed every one present was in favour of Responsible Government. For his own part, he had at meetings in the county expressed himself in favour of a much more perfect form of Responsible Government than that embodied in the Resolution of the Association. He was in favour of what was called Responsible Executives, not an Executive responsible to the Legislature only when it was at variance with two thirds of the members of both houses, but an Executive like the ministers of the Crown in England, holding their places only as long as they could command the confidence of a majority of the lower house. He * thought this was much the simpler and more reasonable practice, and in accordance with the institutions of the parent country. It had been answered to this, that in this colony men could not be found to engage in official life upon such a precarious tenure, if even it contained men of sufficient ability. He dissented entierly from this conclusion. He believed there was quite sufficient ability in the country, and that if the remuneration of office was what it ought to be, there would be no lack of candidates. Mr. Jollie Bad read a quotation from Mr. Roebuck against dividing the colony, and producing jealousies between different portions of it. With the quotation he (Dr. M) could not agree. It was too late to talk of not making an England Scotland and Ireland of this colony. They had already been formed. Jealousies and rivalries were already in existence, which a great number of years would not obliterate. In proof of this, he would mention to the Meeting that the Northern Province had already petitioned to be entirely separated from the rest of New Zealand, and erected into a distinct Colony. And this led him to bring before the notice of the Meeting some considerations which they would do well seriously to entertain. The Northern Island was known to be, in its physical character and its social condition, extremely different from the Middle Island. In the former there was a very large and formidable Native population, a question which alone involved problems connected with Go. vernment of the utmost difficulty. But in this island there was a much larger field immediately available for profitable occupation by Europeans. The native title might be said to be entirely extinguished. The natives themselves were so inconsiderable in numbers, that with reference to forms of Government they might be entirely- overlooked. (Hear.) He had said two years ago, that the inhabitants of this settlement were fitted for self-government. He repeated it now ; and with regard to the whole island, which was about to receive a great increase to its European population, it must be considered a colony of people of purely British extraction, who can support themselves and protect themselves from all intestine aggression. (Cheers). He held that British subjects in such circumstances were entitled to self-government ; but it was impossible to blink the difficulty of conferring anything like a measure of full self-government upon a community of Europeans who were but an inconsiderable number in proportion to the British subjects of another race inhabiting the same island. It would accordingly be better to frame such suggestions as were applicable to their own particular condition, and not to endeavour to lay down laws which were
applicable to the whole colony. He believed that if this island was to share one Constitution with the Northern Island.it would get much less than it was entitled to. British statesmen were not likely to hand over to the colonists of the North Island very large powers for many years to come; and he' questioned very much whether the danger of native disaffection was not likely to be hereafter greater than it had yet been. The natives at present were led like children, treated, nattered, and cajoled. By and by they will come to think mm vu ' 6v6 v men • k* 0 - ideas may present themselves to them, which, however unjustly, may lead them to suppose that they have been despoiled and oppressed. For these and other considerations, he thought that the settlers of the Middle Island would get less than they were entitled to, if they got no more than would be conceded to tbe North Island; and he would urge upon the Meoting the propriety of framing suggestions which should be declared applicable to our condition alone, leaving to other portions of New Zealand to do the same. It would then be the duty of the British Government, as umpire, to compare the different views laid before it, and to construct out of them some measure which should, as far as possible, harmonize our different requirements, unless it were determined that the Middle ana Southern Islands were entitled to larger powers of self-government than could safely be conferred upon the Northern. (Cheers). The Resolution was now put by the Chairman, and was carried almost unanimously. Mr. G. White, on proposing tbe second Resolution, said, he thought Sir George Grey's Bill might be considered as a bag fox, which it was proposed to turn out for the amusement of tbe people of Nelson. He would recommend the Meeting to suffer the fox to remain in the bag (that was in Mr. Greenwood's pocket, as it appeared), and let the Nominees hunt it by themselves. Let the settlers draw their own covers, and they would find plenty of game of their own raising. Bag foxes, it was well known, always ran to their own earths, and he had never yet found anything worth following that came from the Auckland country. The colony, he said, might be compared to a minor approaching hia majority, which, when attained, whether born to a fortune or not, he would become his own master. Now, as regarded our own case, so far from getting a fortune from our parent or guardians, he strongly suspected that we should never get even any accounts of the past administration of our estate. That our property had been wasted, we well knew, and that was the substance of all the information we were likely to receive about it. With respect to the Resolution which he now wished to propose, he would say, that after the many late exhibitions of the freaks of Colonial Governors, the colonists had a right to ask for a power to protect themselves from the headstrong ignorance or stubborn malevolence of any unhappy selection which Downing Street might make, and send here as a ruler. He would therefore propose — " 2. That in the opinion of this meeting, the Governor should be appointed by the Crown, an* paid from the Treasury of the United Kingdom ; and should be removed on a vote for an address to the Crown, praying for such removal, being passed by two-thirds of the whole number of members of each House." Seconded by Mr. Vickekman. Mr. Gieenwood wished to say a few words in reply to what had fallen from the gentleman who moved the present Resolution. He (Mr. G.) had not recommended the adoption of Sir George Grey's measure, but simply that it should be considered by the Meeting for the purpose of seeing how far it might be made available as the basis of a constitution for the colony. With respect to the Resolution itself, he thought that portion of it which asked for a power to remove the Governor, had better be omitted. Dr. Monro disapproved also of the latter part of the Resolution. Mr. Ward thought the power sought was very necessary, particularly if the Governor was likely to have at his disposal large sums of money, ostensibly for Native uses, but which on occasions might be used in a way to render himself independent of the votes of the Council, and thus place at defiance the power of the representatives of the people. (Hear.) Mr. J. Nixon could not approve of giving the Councils the power demanded, and he would therefore move as an Amend- I jnent — ' "That the words from 'and should be removed,' &c, to ! the end of the Resolution, be left out." Seconded by Mr. Snow. The Chairman requested the indulgence of the Meeting while he made a few remarks. Strictly speaking he was not entitled to address them on any motion before them, but he trusted that on an occasion in which it was desirable to obtain every opinion, they would suffer him to depart from the usual rule that imposed silence on the chair. (Cheers.) He begged to thank them for the permission which he gathered from that cheer, and while he engaged not to abuse theirindulgence by speaking often, he felt that in stating his views they would not consider he was violating the even impartiality with which he desired to conduct the business of the day. Thc-y had already passed one most important Resolution, and one not less grave was now to receive their decision. He would respectfully state the grounds of his entire dissent from it. The present Resolution was to the effect that the Governor, being appointed by the Crown, and paid by the British Treasury, should be removable on a vote of two- thirds of the proposed Representatives of the people. This was a great innovation, and one which he considered was neither expedient nor prac- \ ticable. The Governor of a Colony represented the Sovereign, and was not only an officer invested with a ministerial duty, I but personally exercised some of the prerogatives of royalty, and was to a certain extent a symbol of the Queen's supremacy : and to provide on the one hand that he should be appointed by the Crown, and on the other that he should be removed by the people, was in itself an anomaly, and one that he ventured to think no Minister of the Crown would sanction the introduction of. In the first Resolution, which had just been passed, its supporters had apparently provided for the establishment of a Responsible Government, that is to say, of a Government in which the Executive officers should hold their appointments only so long a* they enjoyed the confidence of the Legislature. Now under such a system the people would always have a security against the introduction of vicious measures, or the assumption by the governing power of an attitude hostile to the rights or wishes of the governed. As a matter of course a Legislature constituted as was proposed, or indeed any that should be elected on sound Erinciples, would have the control of the public purse ; and c thereby possessed of the most efficient, and at the same time the most easy and constitutional check upon any abuses of authority. But to push that control so far as to give to a majority of the Legislature the absolute power of removing theperson who represented the Queen, was practically to deny to the British Crown any share ot authority, and by reducing the Governor to a mere tool of the party that happened to be uppermost for the day, compel him in fact to adopt the character of a partisan himself if he wished to possess any real influence in public affairs ; while at the same time no security would be created which did not exist before, for the administration of the Government in conformity with the real wants of the people. He (the Chairman) could perfectly understand the doctrine propounded in this Resolution, where the Governor was elected by the people themselves. In such a cane he exercised a purely ministerial office, and the power which held the right of appointing him would also Have that of removing him : he would represent that power and nothing else, and if he failed in representing it, his office mieht properly be taken from him. Tet even in States whsre the chief magistrate was appointed directly by the people, the spirit of the laws h»d wisely placed a check on the exercise of a power which so evidently tended to take from the respect due to the office and theperson holding it : for that person was generally appointed for a certain fixed term, and his removal within that period would be, not a regular course, but a revolution. But whatever might be said as to the theory on which the present Resolution was founded, he (the Chairman) could not conceive how it could be carried into practice without inconvenience and even danger : and, not to take up with unnecessary examples the time of the Meeting, he would narrow the question to the actual condition of this colony. Situated as New Zealand was at a distance of 17,000 miles from England the exercise of such a power on the part of the majority of the proposed Legislature would be attended with really disastrous results. Suppose that a vote of want of confidence in a Governor were passed s from that moment, knowing that ell the Crown had to do on hearing of it was to appoint another man, he would be powerless for good, but very powerful for evil. Deprived of the support of the people, he could have no possible object in introducing any measures himself: while the same vote which threw him out would of necessity also turn out his administration and place in office men opposed to him in politics ; men not only personally repugnant to himself as being necessarily the leaders of the movement against him, but obviously having no object or interest in taking counsel with or attending to the opinions of tbe man they had overthrown, and who had had as it were his warning to quit on a certain day. What would be the icsult? Why the Governor would perhaps veto every measure such an administration passed, and spend the time he still had to stay in the colony in obstructing everything, secure that at least his salary was safe. Or if he were potsessed of a good humoured disposition and rare self-command, he might content himself with acting the part of a mere automaton, giving his exequatur as s matter of course to a policy he entirely disapproved, and proclaiming laws which he thought deeply injurious to the community. For it was absurd to suppose that if things went to such an extremity it was in human nature for a Governor to bow to the party that had conquered him, and continue to perform his functions as if the vote for his removal
had never been carried. Now whether he resisted the majority by the exercise of his veto, or whether he ignominiously acted as their bumble servant, the result would be equally mischievous : the first case supposed would cause a stoppage of all the functions of Government ; the second would be the best argument against having any Governor at all. But there were still two other courses open to a Governor who had a removal-vote carried against him. He might, after sending : home the order for his own recall, decide upon dissolving, and in the new legislature might get a majority (if only of one) to rescind that order : but as all this would take time (while of [ course he must not delay apprising the Crown of his intended removal), his successor would be appointed and would be on his way out before the new vote of confidence could reach England. Here would be a mess ! Or he might run away, which would be worst of all. What object would a Governor in such a miserable plight have in remaining till his successor came out? He might say to the majority, " I can't afford to waste my time here waiting for your new man : I must go home and defend myself at once, and enlist sympathy in my cause : gentlemen, you must please to take care of yourselves, for my part I wish you good day." Off would go the Governor, and the colony would have no chief for twelve months. But again : suppose such a vote, and the Governor removed ; what security would they have against the chance of getting a King Log for their King StoTk ? The vote might be repeated in the case of one successor after another until the inevitable result would be either the abandonment of the power of removal, or the election of the Governor by the people. For it was vain to say the extreme course would seldom happen : he (the Chairman) in the course of some years' acquaintance with Colonial subjects, could hardly recollect an instance in which, at one time or another, the people of every colony had not been so seriously displeased with their Governors as to have made the exercise of such a power as the present most probable. The instances of hostile attitudes between Governors and Colonial Legislatures were innumerable ; the instances of harmony very rare. All this might be good argument in favour of the doctrine which was gaining ground among many able and tamest colonial re. formers, that Governors ought to be elected by the people, but it was not the less an argument against the present Resolution, which while it did not appear to go half so far as that doctrine, in reality went much farther. And if it were still maintained that it was only in great extremities such a power would be used, he asked what was the use, in the infancy of the Colony, in making provision for such an extremity, in taking pains to declare in all but the first Resolution that day, a desperate remedy for a merely possible disorder? But to leave generals and go into detail : by the first Resolution they had expressed their desire to see New Zealand under one Government, with one Legislature. How that Legislature was to be chosen did not appear ; hut he thought it pretty certain there was no intention to have it chosen by any but the settlers. Now tbe Governor was not only governor over the European population ; he was governor of a people four or five times as numerous as the Europeans. He had to manage an intelligent but jealous race, still possessed of a vast proportion of the land of the Colony, very well armed and accustomed to war, and a great portion of which had only the other day been directly or indirectly engaged in resistance to British supremacy, and had shown a brave front before the best troops in the world. It was this consideration mainly that had induced him (the Chairman) to request them in his opening speech to let their proposals have a reference to the wants of the whole colony. If they were prepared to propose a Government for Nelson, or for the South Island where there were few natives, let it be understood so : but the first Resolution recorded their opinion in favour of one Government for all New Zealand, and they must not forget there were other interests than their own to be considered. Now this Native question had often been called a mere bugbear, and he was willing to admit that among the uninstructed it was sometimes such, just aa it was sometimes unreasonably made light of, and conveniently evaded. He knew a little of this question, and without desiring to overrate it would warn them of its unmistakeable importance. Now how did it bear upon the Resolution before the Meeting ? He did not see that any provision was even contemplated for it. If the suffrage could be given to the Native race, so that the Legislature should represent all those over whom the Governor was placed in authority, then a vote of non-confidence would be the expression at least of the opinion of most of the inhabitants of the Colony. But since the suffrage could not be at present given to the aborigines, what means would the Meeting propose to afford them for joining in or resisting such a vote ? For to put their feelings out of the question altogether, if the whole Colony were under one Government, would be absurd. Now suppose the case of the Legislature passing such a vote against a man eminently possessing the confidence and attachment of the Natives : would it not be most unwise to remove him, and most unfair ? He might for years have been engaged in their improvement, and in directing their progress towards civilization ; he might be to them a great benefactor, and his policy might be exactly suited to their wants and position ; he might be wisely combining restriction in some things with liberal concessions in others, and by gradually converting divided and lawless tribes into a great nation of really British subjects, be solving the most interesting problem of New Zealand colonisation. Pass a vote of removal, and you go far to destroy a fabric raised with great care and toil : for how shall the new Governor step in to continue it, against whom there shall exist in the native mind the strongest prejudice by reason of his being sent to supersede the man they confided ,in, dismissed in disgrace ? How could it be expected the advisers of the Queen would agree to a proposition involving so much risk of injuring the race which at present formed the vast majority of the inhabitants of New Zealand ? He (the Chairman) ventured to say that while the native race existed the power of absolutely removing the Queen's representative would never be entrusted by Parliament to the settlers alone : and he was glad that this insuperable obstacle made it unnecessary for him to adduce further arguments to justify his earnest request to the Meeting, to reject the Resolution.
Mr. Stafford, before the Resolution was put to the vote* would make some remarks in reply to the arguments of DrMonro and Mr. Bell, contradictory as those arguments were* Dr. Monro had stated, that but the shadow of power was left to the Governor, and that this Resolution proposed to take away even that shadow ; while Mr. Bell hud attempted to liken the powers and office of the Governor to those of the Sovereign of Great Britain. He could not agree with Dr. Monro that the shadow of power only remained with the Governor. If the colonists obtained what they wished, the power of vetoing the Acts of the New Zealand Parliament would be vested in the Governor only, without any reference to the Home Government. This was a substantial, not a shadowy power, and one than which none higher or more uncontrolled could well be imagined. He still less agreed with Mr. Bell, either in the position he claimed for the Governor, or in the results which h* predicted as likely to ensue if the Resolution now under consideration became law. These results were in themselves most contradictory, and the arguments in support of them he must term most ill considered. With respect to the Governor's impersonation of Royalty, it could not be maintained that the Governor possessed, in virtue of his office, any of the functions essential to, or inherent in, a Sovereign of Great Britain. The office of a Sovereign of the British empire was hereditary, not depending upon the capacity or good conduct of the individual who filled it; while that of a Governor was merely temporary, and depending entirely on his good conduct and capacity, whether removable by the Secretary for the Colonies, or by the representatives of the inhabitants of the colony he governed. This in itself caused so wide a difference in their respective positions, that no comparison could be instituted between them. Mr. Bell had said that the previous Resolution, which provided that the Executive should hold office only so long as it enjoyed the confidence of the Legislature, guaranteed that the people would have a security against the introduction of vicious measures ; but the Resolution referred to only related to certain heads of departments, not to the Governor. It was true that no vicious measures might be introduced ; the power of dismissing the ex officio members who introduced them effectually guarded against that ; but if vicious measures were not introduced, good measures, although passed unanimously by both Houses, might be vetoed when they were sent to the Governor for his assent : if a responsibility to the representatives of the people was required in the one case, it was equally so in the other. Mr. Bell's arguments were indeed altogether so inconsistent, that it was difficult to answer them singly. On the one hand, he stated that this power of dismissal was not required, because without it the Governor could not govern except according to the wishes of the Legislature ; while, on the other, he said that so certain was this very Governor, who, a few minutes before he had stated could not assume an attitude of hostility to the wishes of the governed, to assume this very attitude, as to require that the power of removal should be exercised so frequently as to create a perpetual anarchy I This imputation of continued and unreasonable contention between the Governor and the Legislature was unfair to both— it was based on the assumption that the Governor, and the people over whom he ruled, had different interests. He could not assent to this proposition ; he thanked God that he had in the abstract a nobler and more dignified idea of the relations which ought to subsist between a people and those appointed to administer the public affairs of that people : he believed that the objects of a Government ought to be that of watching over the interests of all— of conferring the greatest happiness on the greatest number— of preventing the tyranny and op. pretsion of the weak by the strong— not of themselves becoming tbe instruments of tyranny and oppression. (Cheers.;
No honest Governor wishing to legislate for the requirements of a colony, would be afraid or unwilling to meet, or be wnlikely to agree with, the men elected by that colony to represent its requirement*. The "power of removing the Governor would not be exercised lightly or frequently any more than was the power possessed by the Imperial Parliament of witnnolding the supplies— a power which had not been exercised a dozen times in the history of Great Britain, but which w M nevertheless the bulwark of the liberties of the British people-as would that now proposed, and which waa il fri i?^' 0 be often exerei«ed-be a principal bula?S»u lit •♦?" ?f? f the pe °P le of thi « country. He could as little agree with the statement that no British statesman, or Minister, could recommend that such a power should be .1! I n • old u chlurt e r » of many of the British colonies in North America, thepower of appointing, and, ipso facto. of removing, all the officers of Government, inclusive of the Governor, w»s granted to the colonists ; in Lucas. Charters of these colonies, Mr. Bell would learn this, if he referred to the original charters of Massachusetts and others • yet the possession of this power of choosing the best men to govern them, did not render the colonists less faithful subjects of the British Crown; nor was it in consequence of the exercise of this power, that the rebellion against the Crown of Great Britain, which finally ended in the North American colonies becoming an independent nation, originated. The proposal was not likely to be a startling or novel one at home, where several statesmen, and amongst them a late Minister of the Crown, contended that the colonies should have this power. As for the assertion that the proposed power of removal would be reasonable enough if we asked for that of the appointment of the Governor also, he confessed he was unable to comprehend the train of reasoning upon which this conclusion was based: it appeared simply to him, from the literal meaning of the English language, that in the plan proposed we asked for one portion only, and that the lesser one, of the power of deciding who should be the Governor ; while in the other case we should possess the whole : if to ask for a part waa to do more than to aik for the whole, then all the deductions of Euclid were at fault. With respect to the assertion of Mr. Bell, that the exercise of this power, in one case, would lead to a repetition of removals by the colonists on the one hand, and appointments of still more obnoxious men by the Home Ministry on the other ; that they would have a succession of King Logs and King Storks ; he did not believe that Mr. Bell would repeat that calmly : for himself he could only say, that he could not anticipate such a disgraceful, puerile, and in every way undiguified proceeding, on the part of the rulers of a great nation like that to which they belonged ; he felt certain that Mr. Bell must, on reflection, perceive, that while, on the one hand, no colony could be supposed likely to act in so trifling a manner as to seek the removal of a Governor merely because they could remove him, so, on the other, no British Ministry would so degrade the high position they held as to condescend to adopt the course suggested by Mr. Bell, nor would the British Parliament, or people, allow any portion of tbe empire to be so wantonly trifled with. (Cheers.) He would next allude to Mr. Bell's remarks on the Native question, which, by the way, was always brought up in the absence of any arguments, possibly because no two men could agree in any matter affecting either tbe present condition, or future prospects, of the native race, and consequently, any assertion which suited the exigencies of the arguer. might be made at a moment's notice, without the possibility of disproval ; he would, in the first place, remind Mr. Bell, that they were met to determine what, from their own knowledge, appeared the best form of Government for the colony, but they did not assume to dictate to those who lived in settlements where there was a dense native population ; and in a future Resolution which would be brought be fore the notice of this Meeting, it was stated, that if the native question prevented the institution of one Executive only, they were to be understood as desiring at least that there should be only one in the Province of New Munster, as at present constituted. Mr. Bell had stated, that if they asked for any thing different from the othsr settlements in New Zealand, it would lead to the requests of all being shovelled into a drawer, and not attended to at all. Now, this argument, if good at all, was conclusive against any memorial that could possibly be devised. It was a most visionary idea to suppose that all the settlements in New Zealand, with such, very conflicting interest*, could agree in their requests, or even that all the individuals in one settlement could agree : if they were to wait until this happy state of universal concord should occur, the Ministry would never be troubled again on this or any other subject ; the most that could bo expected was, that the majority of the inhabitants of the respective settlements should state their respective views, and that the Ministry, after comparing these views, could determine, at all events, to grant the points upon which all were agreed, and to choose between those where there was a difference of opinion. Mr. Bell's advice would have amounted to the same thing if he had said, " As I believe that all the people composing this meeting will not be unanimous in their recommendations, and that the majority of this meeting must in some matters differ from the majority of those assembled for the same purpose in the other settlements, you need not trouble yourselves to memorialize at all, but had better return quietly to your homes." (Cheers.) There was still another inconsistency ia Mr. Bell's speech : he had brought up the native question to prove, that to seek the power of only removing a Governor was an unfair and unreasonable demand, but he had not objected to this power if, in addition, the power of appointment was given. He would ask how the natives would be better provided for by giving to the colonists the power of appointing every Governor, instead of merely that of removing an obnoxious one, who had been proved to be completely opposed to the views oi those who best knew what the country required? And yet in the first instance, the most calamitous results appeared to Mr. Bell as certain to ensue - while, in the latter, the utmost harmony and felicity ta both races was supposed : he must repeat that so many inconsistent arguments or inferences he had never before listened to in one speech — the most complete answer that could be given to any one of them was to place the next beside it ; and coming as they did from the Chairman, he thought the Meeting was entitled to ask him to withdraw them.
Mr. Jolme said there was no precedent in any Colonial constitution for the power sought to be obtained by this Resolution of dismissing a Governor, who was a personification of Royalty. Nor was such a power needed, In the first Resolution it was requested that the advisers of the Governor should be responsible to the people, and this waa sufficient for all ordinary purposes. In any extreme case, the Queen might be memorialized to recall a bad Governor, as was done here successfully in a former instance.
Mr. Tea vees said he should entirely concur in the observations made by the Chairman and others, if he could look upon the Governor of the Colony as being such a representative of the Queen of England as they considered him to be. But he conceived that the Governor was not such a representative of her Majesty— he conceived him to be merely a Minister of the Crown, appointed to administer the affairs of the particular province to which he is sent ; and responsible for the result* of hia administration, and although he may properly be considered as directly amenable to the Imperial Parliament only for his conduct, yet he (Mr. T.) thought they were not asking for an unconstitutional power in the Resolution before them. It was admitted by those who opposed the Resolution, that s remonstrance addressed to the Home Government by both Houses, would undoubtedly have the desired effect of getting, a bad Governor recalled, but he confessed that he should like to see that effect made certain. He should not like to trust to mere representations and remonstrances conveyed to Downing street, through the very person to be most affected by them. It had been said too, that serious inconvenience would result from the exercise of such a power ; that the confidence which ought to subsist between the Governor and the Representatives of the people, would be destroyed; but would it not be equally destroyed, if they knew that a mere remonstrance would have the same effect? He looked upon the opposition given to this Resolution as the result of a lingering aristocratic feeling, which ought to be dismissed. There were few men who held in greater esteem and veneration the institutions of the mother country than himself, but he did not wish to see any such great distinctions of class as obtains there introduced into this country. If they were to have an. aristocracy, let it be the aristocracy of mind (hear), and he would venture to say, that if the Home Government sent us Governors possessing enlarged and enlightened views, possessing talent and integrity, who will look to and study the advancement of the colony rather than their own particular interests, or the patronage which their situation affords, the power in question will become obsolete. Such a Governor would stand, Higher in their regard, would more command their respect, esteem, and veneration, than one who in mere social rank and dignity stood next to Majesty itself. (Cheers.)
Mr. 6. Whits objected to the analogy which had been drawn between the Queen and the Governor. It had been ■aid that a Governor was figurative of Sovereignty, a symbol of Royalty. He denied these conclusions altogether. He He looked upon the Governor as an accredited servant of the Crown, subject to the dictum of Downing-street, as her Majesty's Ministers were to the people at home. By a fiction in tbe British Constitution, the Queen could do no wrong ; now would any one venture to say the same thing of Colonial Governors? Bather, would it not be said that Governors seldom did right ? Under such a state of things, to contend as had been done against the Resolution was absurd. Mr. HA.XKNKSS dissented strongly from the Resolution. With a power given to the Councils such as thafc now asked for, no man of eminence or character would undertake the task of governing the colony. Such would be the rapidity of
s
changes, that several ships would find employment in conveying Governors and ex-Governors to and from England and the Colony. In fact, you would arrive at this state of things t there would always have to be four Governors on hand ; one in the colony, one on his way out, one on his way home, and another ready to come out in his turn. (Cheers.)
Mr. J. P. Robinson thought a bad compliment had been paid by some of the speakers to the settlers of New Zealand, to suppose that they would be influenced by the factious motives represented. The power asked to be bestowed on the representatives of the people was only that which it had been said was already possessed by the people themselves. It had been asserted that the Governor stood in the same relationship to the colonists as the Queen does to the people of England ; but no just parallel existed between the two cases.
The Amendment which had been proposed, was now submitted to the Meeting, and lost ; the Resolution was then put, and carried by a large majority.
Mr. H. Adams said he had been requested to propose the next Resolution, which he had great pleasure in doing, as it was one in whiih he fully concurred. He had taken an interest in the politics of this settlement, because he believed that upon the political privileges of the people the peace and prosperity of the country depended. He thought that they ■would agree with him that population should alone be regarded in determining the number of members to be elected for each district.and if this principle were adopted, he believed it would be satisfactory to all parties. It wai proposed that there should be no property qualification for members of either House. Property was no test of the fitness of a member, and, if made a qualification, would shut out many men of ability, integrity, and zeal, to whom alone we could look to promote the interest and welfare of the Colony. (Cheers.) He begged to propose the following Resolution —
" 3. That in the opinion of this Meeting, population should alone be regarded in determining the number of members of the Parliament of New Zealand to be returned by each district ; and that, subject to the proviso hereinafter contained, every registered elector should be eligible to be elected a member ot either House : provided that such elector should, as regards the Upper House, possess the qualification which it may be deemed expedient to require in members of that House ; and that the following qualifications for members of that House appear to be most suitable to the circumstances of this colony, namely : Where the elector shall not be le<s than thirty years of age ; or where, not having attained that age, he shall have sat as a member of the Lower House for at least two sessions ; or where, not having attained that age, he shall have held an ta officio seat in either House : provided he shall hare previously resigned the office in right of which he held such at officio seat. But that it should not be necessary, in any case, that members of either House actually reside in the district for which they may be elected to serve." Seconded by Mr. Watts.
Carried unanimously.
Mr. Joseph Ward had been requested to proposa the next Resolution, the object of which was to determine the franchise, and to fix it on the broad basis of giving to every man of sound intellect and good moral character a vote in forming the laws of his country. There was nothing in this request but what in the abstract was perfectly just and proper, and it was a fortunate circumstance that in this colony the principle of Universal Suffrage could be conceded to the people without danger, for they had shown by their intelligence, their industry, and their high moral character, that they were in every way qualified to exercise the fullest political privileges :—
"4. That in the opinion of this Meeting, every adult male who should have resided in the district in which he cltims to vote for six months previously to the day of registration, should be qualified to vote in the election of members: provided always, that no person should be entitled to vote who is an alien, who is of unsound mind, or who at any time theretofore should be attainted or convicted of treason, felony or any other infamous offence, in any part of her Majesty's dominions."
Seconded by Mr. Wabtncy.
Mr. H. Eliot, on rising to propose an Amendment to the Resolution, said he did so with some diffidence, having recently arrived in the Colony, and being in a measure ignorant of the advancement of the body of the people. He felt also that such a task might be invidious and unpopular, for this Resolution must carry great weight of popular approval from its almost unanimous adoption in many previous public meetings in the settlement. However, having heard as yet but little shew of reasoning in its favour, he was the more anxious to lay before the Meeting such reasons as had quite decided his own opinions against any such extension of the suffrage as that claimed. He had no doubt the opinions of this Meeting would carry weight with the British Parliament and people, both from the inferences they will be able to draw as to its being the opinion of enlightened intelligence or the reverse, or simply the wish of the people ; and therefore no proposed measure should go forth with the stamp of approval lightly ■weighed and adopted. As to its popularity or unpopularity, he ■should consider him as greatly deficient in moral courage, and a traitor to the community, who at a time like the present -would blink his own deliberate convictions, or were lightly to form his opinions. As to the matter of Responsible Government for the colonies, he would go as far as any one in legitimately urging it as a matter of right and of necessity on the Home Government, but on this he would not take up the time of the Meeting, but would claim indulgence to enlarge on the subject of the suffrage, as, that being faulty, would vitiate the ■whole of the proposed Constitution. Mr. Eliot then proceeded to state, that all old established Governments afforded in their form and mode of administration a test or index of the people they having been amended continuously with the people's progression, and that advancement of Government should be preceded by an advancement of the people, as consistent with mil historical experience. As they were circumstanced, they had to form a Government suited for the progression of the people, and consequently that Constitution would be best for us which would work best, and would have the greatest capacity for development, so as to afford opportunity to amend it where it may be found defective after experience of its working. Universal suffrage, on the other hand, is a legislation for posterity, as it does not admit of future extension or restriction, and must be uniform in town and country Such a pure democracy did not appear fitted for the present advancement of any people on earth, it might be theoretically the most perfect Government, but it was suited only for an almost perfect people in an age yet to come, as it had never yet been found to work well either in small communities or »n Government on a large scale. Mr. E. gave reasons for doubting the success of the working of Universal Suffrage in France and Germany, and stated his conviction that any applications of theory to practice which takes a too favourable view of human nature, not as it is but as it ought to be, would fail of success. That Constitutions " grow • ' from the necessities of circumstances, and "are not made." The suffrage was not a matter of abstract right or wrong, not a personal and inherent right, but political, springing from man's connexion with society, and must be governed by the same laws of expediency. Rights of property as well as of persons mixed in all legislative transactions, and as they had not arrived at that state, whatever they yet might, when Government need not to do but with persons, they must deal with it as a purely practical question, and asked, was it expedient to allow those rights to be exercised ? Nor was it a great hardship or great deprivation when, whether a man had a rote or paid revenue or not, he hao. equal protection of person and property, and equal civil freedom, with those who do, as theW were framed for the benefit of all ; and to answer one question on property by another, why should he who pays nought, or next to nought, stand on equal ground with him who really bears largely the burthen of the State. Our business was to proTide against the oppression of the Government on its subjects not from subject to subject, now tolerably provided against in' all moderately good government., and he placed more reliance on the powers of a free press, and public expression of opinion by liberty of discussion.tuan by extension of the suffrage, when the Legislature on which they would be brought to Bear was not distant 16,000 miles. These were the real ultimate checks upon a Government really anstocratie in principle, like that ?£»*»> i^" c*e *? ent . ial Principle of good representation was, that it fully and fairly represented each class. Now in this and every other community the labouring class was a great majority; surely then they would not give that class more power than to protect itself, and not enough to crush another class; but by the proposed measure they put all classes within the power of the many. Again, the many are not the most enlightened of any community, nor the most quickly progressive, and the qualities most required for good government will ba most possessed by those who have most leisure, education, and acquired wealth ; the very possession of these or the latter, implies energy, intellect, and knowledge. Property did not always exert sufficient influence without a qualified suffrage, for ignorant masses always act through leaders, who are often only noisy demagogues of mean talent aud selfish aims. So, if the object of this Resolution is to prevent eWss legislation, it does not do so, but the reverse, and this, he said, was a most important end of good representation de feated. The mass of the people, under even a despotism, are tht rulers, it may be negatively, as reform cannot sa.ely precede them, but the greater then is the necessity for a dv« representation of wealth and intelligence, as the leaven woich leavens the mvi. Another remark applicable to colonies is the great preponderance the young will have in their councils without a quaufied suffrage, from population doubling it.ef.n2S years. These considerations le<f him to believe Universal Suffrage to be, to u«c the words of Burke, a plan to
place " poverty, ignorance, and youth, predominant overage, cultivation, and wealth." Another function of Government is the making of good laws, and to execute them. To the first portion, the former reasoning will apply ; to the latter, where the multitude are in power, there is a great weakness of the Executive against internal disorder when exerted on matters of class interest, as exemplified in the anti-rent and anti-slavery agitation, and lynch law of America. He would allow, as had been urged, that giving a right, in a manner may qualify for its use ; but there might often be too long a distance between giving a right and being qualified for its use to render such proceeding always advisable: as in jury trial, in Ceylon; and here, even, juries have not in all casea been found fit for their duties. In discussing this Resolution they must also consider what is likely to be the character of our future population. Mr. Eliot then gave reasons for doubting if it would, in years to come, bear its present acknowledged high character, from the probability of a national assisted emigration. Agricultural labour would be that most sought, and not so likely to possess the superior intelligence of artizans and mechanics, and such town inhabitants, whose emigration is by many not so much desired. The difference of this country compared with England was one of condition more than of advancement. The labour of children was of great value, and the friends of education, and all honour be to them for their efforts, cannot at present compete with the will of numbers to avail themselves of its use. Although the number of scholars may be kept up from the natural increase of population, children are mostly removed before acquiring sufficient taste for knowledge to render them assiduous in its pursuit ; and so it will be but skin deep. Mr. Eliot then drew a parallel between the position of these colonies and the United States of America, for the purpose of pointing out some prominent evils of American democracy, as the exclusion of much of her best intellect and character from political power, the selfishness and violence of her parties, the party spirit as exhibited in her press, the weakness of her internal Executive, and the tyranny of public opinion ; and stated, that in the New England States, where the best working of democracy was exhibited, education was a national idea, which was not the case here. In prefacing the Amendment, he stated that under a Constitution with unlimited local power, which the present Resolutions went to give, there was either a necessity for more power to the Crown, or a more restricted suffrage. Sir George Grey's Bill gave no local power, and so a nominal qualification would answer. Our object should be to exclude all those from the franchise who from want of energy, prudence, or character, cannot or do not provide for themselves, and to include such as are really industrious and progressive; and, judging by the position attained by the labouring men (who have been here only three or four years) in substantial wealth, he felt such would be included in the Amendment he would now propose :—: —
" That the qualification for electors be, every adult male of twenty-one years, having the customary legal qualification, and possessed of property of the clear value of .£'loo, or jSI2 annual rental ; leaving open any difference between town and country."
Seconded by Mr. Hasxiy ess.
Mr. Ca.oti.sy, on rising, said, that if he consulted hit own feelings of personal comfort on the present occasion, he should content himself with giving a negative vote to the motion before the chair ; but concurring, as he most fully did, with the Chairman's preliminary remark, that it is the duty of every one to come forward and state his views conscientiously and fearlessly, he felt it to be a duty he owed to the public and to himself, that he should stand forward and avow himself the opponent of universal suffrage, and especially to its being extended to this community. (Hear.) In doing so, however, he did not purpose to occupy the time of the meeting with any remarks on the abstract justice or injustice of those principles, but he purposed stating, as briefly as he could, the reasons why he conceived they ought not to find favour or support amongst them. The first objection which presented itself to him was, the proximity of this colony to a large convict population. Although in the Resolution then before the chair, some pains bad been taken to render the franchise unattainable by any of that convict population, who as ticket-of-leave men, or otherwise, might find their way in this country, yet it appeared to him, that by forming a low property qualification for voters (and he was quite ready to adopt any property qualification however low, which that meeting might suggest), they would still further guard their hitherto untainted population from the residence of convicts amongst them. He might be told that a property qualification would not effect that, ns every convict was already disfranchised by that Resolution ; but he could not allow the force of that argument. In this settlement they had hitherto had but little of the convict element ' Settle amongst them, but in Wellington and Auckland he believed the case to be very different ; and he could not tell how soon they might have the same here. (Hear.) Now, although they should, by that Resolution, disfranchise all those whom they might be able to prove to have been felons, yet they must first prove it to attain that end ; and the practical difficulty of doing so was a difficulty which mustbe at once allowed. Again, they had had sufficient experience, even here, of the nature of a convict population, to know what they are; a people beach combing, lodgingin houses, getting work where they can pick it up, and having no fixed habitation of their own j and although, with a property qualification for electors they must allow *uch persons to vote amongst them, unless they could prove against them their previous crimes, provided thty had acquired property of a permanent nature (the best test probably of a reformed life), yet his premises being correct, that qualification would be some additional safeguard to them : and surely if, after the indignant protests which they had made, as with one voice, against all attempts to introduce convicts amongst them, they did not take every precaution in their power to discourage their voluntary settlement here ; if they held out to every felon, or, as he might say, to the hundreds, who might temporarily sojourn amongst them for their own purposes, the high political privilges which universal suffrage would afford them (whenever they could not legally prove them to be felons, and he feared that would be very often the case) ; if, he said, they did this, they would stultify their previous proceedings with regard to the convict question, and they would form a body naturally corrupt, easily to be purchased, yet claiming from their own act political privileges which, for the present, ought only to be conferred on those who had raised this country to what it is, and who eagerly had invested their gains, the reward of industry and virtue, in the acquisition of a permanent interest in the soil, in the development of its resources, or in the erection and embellishment of comfortable homes for themselves, and their children's children after them. (Cheers.) The next objection which he had to the adoption of that Resolution, was the peculiar position of this colony, with regard to the large aboriginal population, equally with themselves subjects of the Queen of England. They had been told by previous speakers, framers of the Resolutions, that the native question was one with which they were not sufficiently well acquainted to give any opinion as to its practical bearing with reference to the measures they had submitted, and were about to submit to them ; and yet, with effrontery unparalleled, they proposed those Resolutions as a basis of a Constitution, to be applied not only to Nelson, but to the whole of New Zealand. Now here, as all were aware, the native population was small, orderly, and easily managed ; but in other parts of the country, even in the midst of European settlements, there existed an aboriginal population, numerous and jealous. Did the Meeting for a moment suppose that a British Governor would ever say to his subjects in New Zealand — to the Europeans " You shall have universal suffrage ; you shall have, every one of you, a voice in the Councils of this nation, and in the making of its laws, because you are white, although you only number 30,000:" and to the Natives (equally to the intelligent and to the ferocious), " You shall be subject to the laws of the whites, because you are blacks, and notwithstanding that you number 100,000 ?" and yet, if that motion be adopted by the Meeting, and carried out by the Home Government, he must do so, or he must do what would be equally ruinous to the prospects of the country— he must draw a broad line of demarcation between the two races in the same settlement ; he must himself make laws for his native subjects, with which the laws made by his European subjects for themselves cannot interfere ; or he must allow them, what the Resolution would give, universal suffrage to- all, Native and European, and thus make, as long as the numerical difference of the races remained as it now was, the more energetic portion of the population subordinate to the indolent, the European subordinate to the half-civilized N«w Zealander. But a property qualification, however low, aud be could not too often repeat, that he cared not how low that qualification might ba made, would remedy that. The intelligent New Zealander (and, as a general rule.it was only the most intelligent among them who had acquired property that would qualify them to rote; was perhaps as capable as any amongst them of using that privilege without abusing it ; and if it was not so, the number of those who would be so qualified would not be numerous enough to give reasons for apprehension of measures being passed subversive of the interests of their naturalborn fellow subjects. And now he came to discuss the Resolution with reference to the population of this settlement. It had been proposed for adoption to a people, the bulk of whom had worked their way to independence by the sweat of their brow, by their energy and perseverance. (Hear). Now, whatever opinions he might hold as to universal suffrage as a principle ; to the advocacy of it in countries where vested rights had "become oppressive; and where the rights of property resting in the hands of a few were liable to be harshly exercised towards the many ; yet in this country, none of those arguments usually urged in its defence appeared applicable. He did not think a small property qualification would debar from electoral privileges one- tenth of this population. He had seen in this settlement hundreds rise from want to
independence solely by their own exertions ; and he believed as long as he lived, he should continue to witness the same results. (Cheers.) Surely, then, it could not be unjust to any to give a voice in the councils of the country as a reward to thosa who were now reaping the fruits of energy and virtue in the possession of freehold property and of long leases, and who had availed themselves, and were so eagerly availing themselves, of every opportunity which offered of attaching themselves to the soil ; or to hold out as an inducement to others to do the same those political privileges which they had been asked to deny to the punished felon, and which he entreated the Meeting equally to refuse to the temporary and changing visitor, the beach-comber, and the sluggard. Whether it was desirable for a State to recognise property or persons as the basis of electoral qualifications, he would not stop to inquire ; but it did appear to him that that form of Government must be the most perfect which represented both ; and to this country, more than to any other he ever heard of, could that principle be applied. They had here no abuses arisingout of property to reform ; and as he had already stated, he did not think that ten out of every hundred, and those mostly very young men, would be debarred from voting by a small property qualification, whilst such a qualification would do much to ensure stability in the Government, and to repress that restless desire for change so prevalent in all new colonies. The Meeting had been told by the proposer of the first Resolution, that the Resolutions were framed on the basis of the English Constitution, and with as much similarity to that as the circumstances of the colony would admit of; but he confessed that it puzzled him to find one single point of practical resemblance. The framers of these Resolutions had obtained the consent of the Meeting to a Resolution requiring no qualification whatever for the members that may be sent to the Parliament ; they now ask the Meeting to assent to a Resolution for universal suffrage ; and he (Mr. C.) was prepared, he mustconfess, for defeat, his view of the franchise having already been rejected by two previous Meetings (laughter) ; and the ballot probably would come after (cries. No, no) ; and yet we were coolly told that the Resolutions which had been and were to be proposed, derived their principal virtue from their great resemblance to the admirable system of Government of the home of our birth. But there was no resemblance. What they were really asked to propose to the British Government, is to make this the only spot, he believed, on the whole face of the earth, where the three great innovations, of universal suffrage, vote by ballot, and no qualification for members, should have their full sway — principles which even democratic America had not ventured fully to adopt, which he believed the ancient Republic of Switzerland never dared to try, and which had just been tried in France and found impracticable. They were asked themselves to rf quest to be made a great experiment in the principles of political economy, and whether those principles appear abstractedly good or evil, he (Mr. C.) would entreat the Meeting to pause before it tied itself to measures the success of which, as yet, were so problematical. He entreated it, by a moderate property qualification for electors (and here for the last time he repeated, that he cared not how low that qualification may be), really to imitate the practice of the Government of England, and -by adopting such low qualification, to confer electoral privileges on those, the permanent nature of whose property would give the best guarantee for the election of the men the most likely to advocate measures calm, rational, and permanent, and measures which would be calculated to confer benefits alike on the present population of these islands, and that which is to come (Cheers.) Mr. Hough wished to make one or two remarks with reference to the line of argument pursued by Mr. Cautley. He was not going to discuss the subject largely. He liked solid argument, but he thought Mr. Cautlcy's argument quite beside the mark. Mr. Cautley objected to Universal Suffrage in Nelson ; and why? Simply because there happened to be convicts in New South Wales ; and because there was a pro* bability that some day or other some of these convicts may find their way to Nelson. (Cheers.) Mr. Cautley gave the men of Nelson credit for being honest, upright, and worthy, yet because there was a possibility of a few convicts coining here at some time, he thought it quite prudent to place our working classes in the position of convicts, and, as a matter of course, the working classes must be content to take their stand on a level with this convict race. Such reasoning as this was strange. What! because there hap. pened to be bad men in another part of the world, was it necessary, and did it follow as a natural consequence, that the working men of Nelson must be looked upon with sub. picion, and treated to all intents and purposes as bad men, or as convicts ? According- to Mr. Cautley 's ideasit was absolutely necessary that such should be the case. (Hear.) Again the same gentleman objects to universal suffrage in New Zealand, because we happen to be surrounded by a number of natives who unfortunately are ignorant, and Mr. Cautley would not like to see a Constitution so framed as to give rights and privileges to the clear-headed, honest- hearted, bard- working Englishman, which it would not be safe to give to the natives of New Zealand ; therefore, we Englishmen must be content to be treated as Maories, so long as the natives continue in their present condition, so that we must make a dead stand until the natives could come up to us, and all that time be deprived of our rights as Englishmen, and every advanced ; step we take, as far as education and knowledge are concerned, would avail nothing. Another of Mr. Cautley's arguments (said Mr. H.) would go to prove, that among our own country, ment here is a superior and inferior race, and that the great body of the people are of the inferior order. It is true that in the acquisition of learning the wealthy got the start of us in early life, but perhaps some of us, by dint of hard exertion, and by intense application in the study of men and books, have got pretty closely on their heels, and this too in spite of very strong opposing influences. (Cheers.) Are they Englishmen 7 so are we ; are they rational beings ?so are we ; have they got heads and hearts '/ so have we ; are they possessed of souls ; so are we ; can they think ?so can we ; can they act ?so can we ; can they lay down principles ? so can we ; can they reason upon the principles they lay down ?so can we ; can they draw conclusions from them? so can we ; and yet, strange to say, they are men, but we are said not yet to have come up to their standard, and therefore they claim a prescriptive right to govern us according to their pleasure, and our prescriptive right must be to take just what Mr. Cautley and others think fit to prescribe. (Cheers.) Mr. Cautley gives the working classes of Nelson great credit for being what they are, and for doing what they have done ; and he stated that it was mainly owing to them that Nelson holds its present high and prosperous position; yet, notwithstanding that they have in a great measure been the salvation of Nelson, and proved themselves to be worthy of the name of Englishmen, they must still be content to be treated as convicts, as natives, as simple children of nature ; and this so long as there shall continue to be convicts in New South Wales, or natives in New Zealand. We smile at such arguments ; and we ask for our rights as Englishmen ; and we hope to have them conceded to us. (Cheers.) Mr. J. Macdonald would claim for the working classes the same political rights and privileges as would be possessed by those who aspired to obtain seats in the future Parliament The working classes, if questioned, would show that they as well understood their social duties, and were in every way as competent to the discharge of them, as their superiors. But it seemed from some of the speeches, that property and not men, was to constitute votes. This reminded him of a story told by the late Mr. O'Connell, of a man in one of the American States (where property of ftlmoit any kind gave a vote) whose qualification was the possession of a donkey. In riebt of his donkey the man had voted at various elections until at last the poor ass was gathered to his fathers, but the man tendered his vote at the next election notwithstanding. " Hollo," says the friend of the opposite candidate, " what* your qualification, my friend." " A donkey " says the man. "But your donkey is dead," saidthe other, " and so you have no longer a vote." " Well," says the disfranchised elector, " I used to think it was I who gave a vote, but I see now it was the donkey all the time." (Cheers, and laughter.) Mr. G. Whit* said that he was prepared to contend that the right of voting was a personal right, and that the only true basis of representative government was universal suffrage. The rich man had no more right to exclude the poor man from the right of voting, than the poor man to exclude the rich. If an inequality of rights were justifiable, he would ask who the persons were that had a right to establish it ? (Hear.) Would the rich exclude themselves ? No. Would the poor exclude themselves? No. Then, he would ask again, by what right could any be excluded ? The poor man will not delegate such a power to the rich, nor the rich man to the poor ; and it might always be taken for granted, that those who wish to establish an inequality of electoral rights, never mean to exclude themselves. In regard to making property the criterion of the right of voting, he would say, that when we consider in how many ways property may be acquired without merit, and lost without crime, we ought to scout the idea of making it a measure of political privileges. To do so was to cast a stigma upon honest poverty, and on the moral character of those excluded. (Cheers.) Wealth was no proof of moral excellence nor poverty of the want of it ; and if property, little or much', was to be made the criterion of a man's fitness for irivine: a vote, the means by which that property had been acquired ought to be made a criterion alsof «cquirea
Mr. JotLiß said he was in favour of a liberal and extensive franchise for this settlement and the whole colony but he was not prepared to advocate Universal Suffrage, and he really thought the Nelson Constitutional Association and those gentlemen who, as members and emissaries of that body had here and elsewhere supported the proposition and encouraged the public to advance such a claim, would be responsiblelor no small amount of dissatisfaction and disappointment, if not worse consequences hertafter, when it was found, as it was sure
£ri tw £XF M rv° n ri "? hlg ¥j r i iled could not b " resUized. and that nothing like Universal Suffrage could possibly be got m his opinion it was quite wild and visionary to talk of Universal Suffrage as applicable or attainable for a colony so young as New Zealand, and in every respect so peculiarly circumstanced, and it seemed to him that by asking for it they would only be injuring their own cause and discreditinß those other parts of their scheme which were in themselves right and reasonable. For let them consider that they, an insignificant body of Europeans in a colony still in its very infancy, and having a large aboriginal population which they did not propose to invest with the same rights as themselves, were going to ask of the British Parliament a form of suffrage which had never, so far as he knew, been conceded to any British dependency whatever-a suffrage which English citizens did not themselves enjoy, and which as the fundamental principle ofa pure democracy, was foreign to the whole spirit and genius of British institutions. In support of this cltim they had just heard advanced the plea of the original rights of man, rights natural and inherent in each individual— a source of argument and of right that he was somewhat surprised to see reported to on this occasion, because the theory had been abandoned by all political thinkers almost since the d»ys of Hume, and was evidently fallacious. It was enough for him to answer to such a position, that we no longer existed in a state of nature, subject to natural law, but in a state oforganrr Z O nf^"« Clet^ wh \ re » U Political rights and franchises wera conferred or abrogated, restricted or enlarged, as circumstances arose, by the positive law and statutory enactments of a legislature emanating from the property, virtue, and intelliS££ rf I,' communit y.. a "d governed i/its act. by" operations of general convenience and good order. CoieridM hail somewhere remarked, "The wisdom of legislation consuls* the adaptation of laws to circumstances," and he (Mr. J.) fully adopting that principle, as the principle of progress, common sense, and expediency, could recognize on this question, as on all others, no rule of political action or source of political power, but the varying exigencies of society and the actual condition of its affair,. But besides its impracticability, he objected to the proposition now before the Meeting on account of its unfairness and partiality. They claimed universal Suffrage for the colonists, but omitted all mention of wfT.f'fr'ft question, which question, to his mind, constituted in itself a strong argument against such a suffrage. The natives were undoubtedly an intelligent and highly improveable race, but he did not consider that they were as a body at all fitted to exercise the franchise at present : yet it would be impossible under a system of universal suffrage to ignore them and withhold altogether the rights which the> had acquired as British subjects under the Treaty of Waitanni. (Hear.) That treaty, which explicitly declared and confirmed those rights, , of course would have to be honestly observed : it must form the basis of all future legislation for New Zealand, under whatever form of Government it may be placed : but if the argument from natural rights was worth anything, and the settlers were all entitled to the franchise on that ground, so were the natives, and they could not be fairly or safely denied it. But he objected to granting universal suffrage on another ground; he considered they would by so doing enfranchise a great amount of ignorance and non-intelligence amongst our own countrymen. Some fair degree of education andfntellil gence he held to be essential to the right exercise of po"itical functions, but he must confess that notwithstanding the creat and praiseworthy exertions made in this settlement fof ex. tending education amongst the bulk of the people, and the in many respects gratifying exhibition made yeSterday in tha^ place by the chiSren attending school in the different he did not think the intelligence and acquirements of the entire population of the place were such a? to justify « Tfr ln. chise commensurate with its adult members, nor even that the ""truction now being imparted to the rising generation constituted education m the true sense of the wofd, or would in any sufficient degree qualify those receiving it for the possession of political rights. (Hear.) He believe! that very much remained to be done here and throughout the Colony before anything like a competent degree of education could be said to prevail amongst the mass of the people and that untn the Legislature had applied itself to the?rganl'zing O f apXer educational system, and furnished adequate fundsforcamfng it into effect throughout the country, the franchise must bf made somethingconsiderably short of universal, if nteu"^^* and knowledge were any tests of fitness for its enjoyment. Oo this part of the subject he would, before concluding beg their attention to the opinions of a man whose name many in that room must be familiar with-a name illustrious incidence, eminent in politics and letters, and conspicuous for every virtue that could adorn humanity-he meant Baron Cuvie7 Give schools," said that great man, •• before political riahts ■ make citizens comprehend the duties that the state of society" imposes on them; teach them what are political rights, before you offer them for their enjoyment: then all amelioration maybe made without causing a shock ; then each new idea" thrown upon good ground, will have time to germinate, to grow, and to ripen, without convulsing the social body! Imitate nature, which in the development of being, acts by OTa' dation. and gives time to every member to grow to perfection. The infant remains nine months in its mother's womb -man's physical perfection only takes place between twenty and thirty and h:s moral completion from thirty to forty. Institution* musthaveagestoproducealltheir fruits; witness ChrisSy! the effects of which are not yet accomplished, notwithstanding eighteen centuries of existence." These were the sentiments of a man of great political experience and sagacity, and they were sentiments which he in conclusion would irire them £S£EgZSg£s« COmmitted themseI ™ to th «
Mr. Teavkbs said that the mover of the Amendment then before the chair had laboured hard to persuade them that tha claim to universal suffrage was based on the "natural right* Sf ma J? \ ,, nn * l 4 - wai ridiculouß t0 suppose for one moment, that that claim is, or can be rested on any such grounds The mere natural rights of man, in the full acceptation of the term, do not (as properly observed by Mr. Jollie) exist in any civilned society. When an individual becomes a member of society, he gives up, to a certain extent, his mere natural rights, and receives in exchange the rights which society confers. These rights are commonly termed political or civil rights, and have been reduced to three great principles or articles; namely, the right of personal liberty, the right of personal security, and the right of private property j and these rights are vested in every member of society, whether he be rich, or whether he be poor. Universal suffrage is therefore properly based on the political rights of mm ; for according to the true theory and genuine elements of liberty, and of the British Constitution, every man is entitled to vote in the election of those delegates to whom are entrusted his liberty, his property, and his life. (Hear.) Now, had it ever been contended, could it be contended seriously in a free country, that the rights of personal liberty, and of personal security, are subordinate, or ought to be postponed, to that of private property ? (Cheers.) This is the doctrine of the American slaveholder, and ought never to pass the lips of a free-born Englishman. But those who oppose the introduction of universal suffrage into this colony, do not look to the origin of the British system of suffrages. They were invented to protect the independence of voters ; and it is acknowledged by the most violent opponenU of reform, that when that independence is capable of being thoroughly secured, there will be an end to even the poorest plea for the necessity of a pro-" perty qualification. It was well known to all here, how very inefficient a protection the property qualification had afforded to the voter at home ; and he (Mr. T.) could not conceive any enlightened statesman holding to the property qualification with such an idea of its effect. He was quite prepared to acknowledge that the immediate introduction of universal suffrage at home would be attended with disastrous consequences. It must be done gradually. It must accompany an increased amount of education. The excitement which would result from the too sudden acquirement of such a measure of freedom might 'produce madness, and produce its consequences. But ths case was different here. It was said by those even who oppose the introduction of universal suffrage, that the people of this colony are thoroughly independent ; that they are not subject to, or likely to be acted upon by those influences which so fatally clog the independence of voters at home; that, in fact, there is no individual in this colony who possesses either the power or the desire to exercise any such influence. Then why oppose universal suffrage ? Why make use of exploded arguments for the purpose of introducing a check on political liberty ? (Hear.) Let us reject those fallacies as unworthy of ourselves. Let us contend for that full measure of liberty which we are fitted to receive, and which is our birthright. But another argument had been used against universal suffrage — an argument equally absurd and equally futile ; namely, that the present degraded state of feeling in the United States is the result of political equality. He (Mr. T.) had yet learn that this was the case. He always had been led to understand that it was the result of social equality— of a social equality not relying on the true and sound basis of education, but which, setting at nought that basil, compels the men of enlightened and cultivated mind to join with the ignorant and blustering republican in a chorus of self-gratulation on those glorious institutions of his country, of which ha feels himself to be the victim. There was no parallel to such a state of society here ; nor is such a state of society consistent with true liberty. Let us therefore dismiss the comparison. Let us admit the full validity of the ciaim to political equality. Let us endeavour to increase the means, and extend the benefits of education, as the only solid and proper basis of social equality. Let us never suppose that the possession of that which may be acquired without industry, and lost without demerit, should form our only title to thosa liberties which our glorious Constitution has declared to bava been from time immemorial the birthright of every Englishman. (Cheers.)
The Amendment was now put and lost, and the Resolution was then carried by a very large majority.
Mr. Saxton rose and said, you have just passed a Resolution approving of Universal Suffrage, and one of the recent speakers remarked, that if universal suffrage was once obtained, that the Ballot would not be far off. He now stood forward as its advocate, and had great pleasure in proposing the next Kesoiution —
" 5. That it is the opinion of this Meeting, that, in the .lection of members, the mode of voting should be by ballot." Mr.S. proceeded to say, thtt the present subject was the only one on which there was any considerable difference of opinion, and he hoped before he had concluded, he would be able to obtain a greater amount of unanimity. All the other propositions, on being put to the vote, had been carried by such large majorities as proved that the opposition to them was only trifling, but on this subject the opposition at all the prer Jing meetings had been characterised by much strong feeling, which might be even said to amount to abuse, for the Ballot had been assaulted by very hard names, such as " unmanly, un-English, hypocritical," &c, but ho must entreat the Meeting to recollect that harsh names we're not arguments. It seemed to him as though it was in the very nature of any good thing which appeared as a novelty, or as an innovation, to be received with suspicion and hostility. He would take an instance as an illustration, and he would appeal to several gentlemen, ornaments of the medical profession, who were present, for confirmation of it. All were aware that for centuries a horrible and hideous disease had existed, called the small-pox, which had been the scourge of nations, and half of the people had died of it, until a few years ago wheu a clever and good man, Dr. Jenner, discovered and proposed a remedy, by the 'substitution of a milder disease, so mild as to leave no ill effects after a few hours, namely the transference of a. disease in cows by a process called vaccination. Any one would have supposed that the world would have received this news with joy, and that the great discoverer would have been crowned with laurels ; but the fact was quite otherwise, this great and good man was immrdiately assaulted with every species of abuse, and his patients were caricatured and represented with horns growing out of their heads, their human countenances changed into cows' faces, and the good man himself drawn with cloven hoofs, as though he were the very Devil himself. The great medical reformer however persevered, and that which had been so much abused, was at length found to be a most excellent thir.({, and has been universally adopted, and we had to thank Dr. Jenner that one half of us were now alive. It was now proposed to substitute the Ballot — a very mild disease, if any would still insist on calling it a disease— instead of open voting with all its evils. He had shortly before remarked that hard names were not arguments, at least, that if they were, they were very bad arguments, for the hard names which had been used agamst the Ballot might be used with equal truth and equal fairness in connection with things of undoubted excellence. He could give an instance. Yesterday that room had been filled with the children of the settlement, who were assembled to be examined on their acquirements. Some pereon who had never learnt to write himself, and never intended to learn to write, and desired that no one else should learn to write, might have with equal force risen to aay : " Mr. Campbell, if you teach those children to write, you will do no end of mischief; those children will only learn to write anonymous letters, which are unmanly, un-English, sneaking, hypocritical, breeders of all kinds of distrust," &c. (Cheers). Noperson would be much convinced, or much influenced against the practice of writing ; nor would the case have been much altered if he had added, that they would also learn to forge and steal, and that he had known of children who had learned to write who came to be hanged. There had also been a variety of abuse on the name of the ballot, which was unfortunate, and they had heard much ridicule about ballot-boxes, black balla, pricked cards, &c, which had about as much to do with the principle as candle boxes, blacking balls, or shingles bored through with gimblcts. These remarks would serve to remove the rubbish which had as yet smothered the subject, and he would now seriously address the Meeting on the Resolution which he had read. In analysing this, it would be seen that allusion was made to voters and members, which distinction would enable him to speak of open voting, which applied most properly to the members j in contrast with vote by Ballot, which was now proposed for voters. It was clear that an election might properly be denned as a selection of one or more men from others who offered themselves as candidates. On these occasions it was usual for questions to be asked and answered, and thus there arose a mutual understanding between the voters and candidates, which generally ended in pledges being given by the various candidates with regard to the principles which they were prepared to carry out, and on the faith of these pledges and assurances there was no doubt that others acted ; and the members became thus responsible to their constituents for such preference, and were bound to redeem their pledges, and to prove that they had not obtained the suffrage of their constituents by any false pretences, which could only be effected by giving open proof of the sincerity of their promises : therefore, with members as responsible to their constituents, open voting was necessary and essential. But with the voter the ease was totally different. The voter's object was to select from the candidates the man whose principles most nearly resembled his own, and who would vote most probably in the same way as the voter with the same opportunity would have voted himself, and in this selection he would be exercising his own private judgment, and exercising a choice which should be entirely his own, and unbiassed by the interference of any one. It was clear that the voter was responsible to none. He was responsible only to his own conscience, and to his God, and if he could remain in this position, there would be no objection to open voting in many respects. But who would contend that he would be allowed to remain thus undisturbed by all external influences ? The slightest knowledge of human nature and of fact would prove that no man would be so left undisturbed. Open voters were open to all sorts of external influences, and their very friends would not let them alone. The ballot proposed to protect them from all such influences. It had been objected, that the ballot was secret, but he really could see no objection in that. If, as he had already proved, the voter was responsible to no one, it was really and entirely the voter's own affair, and there was no right in any one to interfere or to know his intentions at all. (Hear). The voter had as much right to vote secretly, as he had to write what he pleased in a letter, and put a seal upon it, and put it in the Post-office ; and it would be a very strange proceeding if he was surrounded on his way to the Post-office by persons wishing to know what he had written in his letter, and trying to look into it, and to break its seal. (Cheers). It was now time to explain the ballot, which was considered to be ao dreadful and so hateful, but which was really extremely innocent. There were several modes of it, bat the method he would himself propose would be, that papers, having the names of the candidates printed on them should be delivered to each voter, and that at his leisure he should erase the names he would reject, and then, on the appointed day he should personally deposit hi* paper folded up into the receptacle supplied for the purpose ; these paper* to remain undisturbed until the close of the appointed time, when they should be counted, and the majorities for each name be announced. He really could see nothing very dreadful in all this, but only a very peaceable and orderly arrangement, very efficient for the purpose in view, and in which there was neither noise nor commotion, but which wan in perfect contrast to the corresponding scene in open voting, where, as each voter openly announced his vote, it was impossible not to know the progress of the poll, which was thus generally ascertained and paraded every half hour. Then the placards and banners were raised, the bands and processions were in motion, the bludgeons and bullies were in requisition, besides all the abominations of the Committee rooms and the open taverns ; and thus every half hour the excitement was kept up throughout the day. But the ballot offered other advantages. In New Zealand now, and probably for many years, the constituencies would be very small, and every individual would be well and personally knowu, and thu« the intimacies and the enmities would be stronger, and as elections were for the purpose of selecting men, they were entirely of a personal nature, and personal feelings were every way mixed up with them, and distinctions were to be drawn between men often of a very invidious and delicate nature. He had lived so long in the colony that he had observed most men in it, and some had greatly raised themselves in his esteem, and others had greatly lowered themselves ; but as these observations were altogether of a private nature, and might possibly be unfounded, it was fair that no other person should be influenced by them who might retain other views of character ; but the impressions were so strong that they might lead to preference or rejection of men rated very differently by others, and a choice might be made or avoided where the very singularity of it might lead to questions very difficult to answer. He would therefore prefer secret voting, which left every freedom of choice, and which neither openly flattered the man selected, nor openly disparaged the man rejected, whilst it was really the most honourable testimony to the real merits of the man elected. It thus enabied a man to sclrct i~onjf frunds without offence. But there was another consid.ration o. mm vie u ie consequence. \V« hod in the former Kesoiution approved of universal suffrage. Under a system of houieMW voting, there could be but one voter to each house; ami in his own hoase, and from being the only voter, a man would have no one but himself to quarrel with, which could not very well happen ; but » ith universal suffrage arose a very different s-ate iot things. A. every adult male above 21 years of age v.0u1.l be a voter, it fo.lo«n.u that there c uU .d be several voters in each ho u « R . Tnere would b«- fathers, sons, broth-™, si: .-u.j, and. in some houses, lodgers ; and if there were differences or <.n, n ,on m the outrr coinruumty, there would be equal diflercnecs of. opiuion within, and quarrels w;re more
violent in household*. He had known instance! of politi- ' cal differences where fathers and sons h»d quarrelled, and had not in consequence spoken to each other again for years. (Hear). Now it had been objected that, notwithstanding the ballot, the opinions of every person would be tolerably well known, and he would admit that thi* would be especially the case in families, where discussions would be frequent j but he conceived that there was in the ballot a mode of expressing political opinion ao reverse of the offensive and open bravado of open voting, so unassuming and io unobtrusive, that a contrary vote lost much of its irritation, and it Jtept out of sight all appearance of opposition. The ballot separated from each other tho»e otherwise disposed to quarrel, it we turned fighting cocks into an open cockpit they straightway flew at each other, but as long as they were kept out of sight of each other in their own separate bags, they continued very peaceable, not being able to get at each other. Cattle, and such like animals, if brought together on any open place, straightway kicked and fought, but if they were separated and kept out of sight of each other in stalls, they continued very peaceable. The ballot much in the same way kept parties out of sight of each other, who might otherwise quarrel if able to interfere with each other, and it even gave a person an opportunity of quietly repelling enquiries and curiosity, by the inoffensive statement that he intended to vote by ballot, and wished to avail himself of its privacy. Such a hint would be sufficient for any honourable person, and if a man had a perfect right, as before shewn, to vote as he pleased, then he ought not to he molested. He would close his remarks by one further illustration. He thought a man with his vote was very much like a man in his own house, which ought to be his castle, and lie to be the only master. He might keep open house if he pleased, and he might be perfectly open in his intercourse with all his friends ; but his keeping of open house ought to be limited to intercourse with his own friends, for it was certain that if he continued to keep open house to all alike, he would soon find so many rude intruders that he would soon cease to be the master in his own house ; for there were abundance of people who would soon devour all he had, and turn him out even of his own bed : so that if he would be master in his own house, he musk keep all such intruders at a distance j and if the meddling, the intruding, the violent attempted to invade his sacred right to the privacy of his own house, he had a right to shut his door in their faces, and to lock it too : and if the curious and the prying attempted to look in at his windows, to find out what he was doing within, he had a right to pull down his blinds and to draw his curtains ££!?"• x and l uietlv leav e th em to find it out, if they could. (Cheers). '
The Rev. T. D. Nicholson said that he would second the Kesoiution now proposed with great pleasure, and in doing so he did not consider he was out of his place as a Minister of the Gospel of Peace. He had claimed his right as an elector at home, and though a native of Scotland, he had possessed and exercised his vote on English soil ; but he had never taken an active part in the politics of the day, and he could sately say that the present was his first prominent appearance upon the political stage. He did not think that an apology was necessary for coming forward at this time; he had his rißhts as a citizen, and he was free to express his opinions like any other British subject. He considered that Civil and Keligious liberty ought everywhere to be united, the connexion between them being so intimate they must either stand or fall together, and he considered that, as a minister of religion, it was his duty to uphold that standard in all its purity and faithfulness. They had now declared for universal suffrage, and had they not done so, he should not have stood before them asking for vote by ballot— but having granted the one as the right of every man, let them not refuse the other as a guardian appendage ; and let every man be able to exercise his vote, free and unfettered, unmoved and uninfluenced, either by favour or by frown. He must confess that his prejudices were against the ballot, while his convictions ot its necsssity and usefulness were strong in its favour, and as he considered the peace and unity of society of first importance, he could not but regard the ballot as a protection to such precious interests. It was his ardent desire that love, chanty, and unity should reign among us, and he therefore cordially supported the Resolution. (Cheers.) Mr. Greenwood, in reference to what had fallen from preceding speakers, trusted that his opposition to the Ballot would not be construed into an approval of discord, drunkenness, and violence. The liallot was a means for enabling a man to exercise secretly a power which concerned the public good. His vote was a duty more than a right, and would be best exercised under the control of public opinion ; which was at least ai powerful for good as for eviL The strong feeling in favour of the Ballot arose from the knowledge of the abuses, the intimidation, and oppression, exercised in elections in England, where the power nominally in the hand, of the many was really in the hands of a few. To introduce it among themselves in so different a state of things, was to provide against a danger which did not exist, and which he believed was not at all likely to occur: the general tendency « ?' I s j els^ whe I e ' bein & in a democratic direction. Mr. baxtonhad alluded to the introduction of vaccination, as a reason why they should not refuse to entertain the question because it was a new one, and had called upon the members ?(r % Mescal Profession to confirm his statement. He (Mr. G.) could only tell them, that if universal Suffrage and Vote by Ballot hod been taken in that discovery at its first introduction, it would not now be in existence (hear) ; anu, as it was, its first introducers were exposed to all theobloquv and abuse which was usually the lot of those who opposed the opinions of the majority. He trusted that by their decision that day they would show they intended always to act as they were doing, openly avowing and maintaining their own opinions, and giving the cause they espoused the benefit not only of their vote, but of their personal influence and support. Mr. Nixon considered himself bound to strenuously oppose the Resolution, as he disapproved of it in principle, and regretted to nnd that so many persons here were anxious to see it introduced — for the mere circumstance of our requesting such an unconstitutional measure, would at once imply the existence of abuses and a state of society that he was proud to say did not yet disgrace this colony. It was an absolute certainty he thought that this impression would be conveyed, and also equally certain that the Imperial Government would promptly refuse us such a dangerous and doubtful remedy lor an anticipated disease. The ballot he maintained to be unconstitutional, and directly opposed to an Englishman's , characteristic of openlyfacingan opponent; it would lower his ' self-esteem, be productive of tyranny instead of liberty, apt to widen the distance between the upper and lower classes, and it had hitherto been a complete failure in suppressing electioneering bribery, feasting, and intimidation, and was ££,?<? unsuited to the present requirements of this country. 1 he Ballot was unconstitutional, for the Imperial Government have hitherto piven it their constant opposition, and the only countries in whieli it has flourished have, when too late, regretted their fatal mistake. Imperial Rome and enlightened Greece equally condemned ostracism; and the only place in which he remembered this dangerous plant to have attained mature growth was in the genial noil of the Inquisition : the poisonous fruits it there produced were »o painfully familiar to all, as to require from him no further explanation. Then why a-k the privilege of transplanting it into our present country of true independence and freedom ? One of the noblest traits in an Englishman's character, whether peasant °J 5e5 c ? r> A 8 . hU M hl J alrous love of "Penly meeting an opponent. And he (Mr. N.) for one would dearly preserve and cherish in this distant land all that was manly and honourable in the national character. A fair electioneering fight, or a tap from a nhillelah, was far preferable to the bowie knife and revolver of a ballot-loving Yankee. It was, he maintained, repulsive to the feelings of an independent voter to disguise himself with the grim mask of hypocrisy : for to avail himself of the ballot s secrecy, a man must more or less practice deceit and hypocriay. (Hear.) The ballot, (said Mr. N.) at one of our district meetings was correctly stated as being the parent of deceit— political deceit : he might also add, that it was itself the offspring of tyranny. Why then should we ask for such a dangerous gift? or why should we uphold as an object of admiration vice in any form ? for he knew of no modification of vice. It was apt to widen instead of to narrow the distance between the upper and lower clas*e«, for th* rich man had no need to conceal his opinions, and the poor man must, or he places himself in precisely the same position that he was previously. What was free and open appeared to him as more accessible than what was concealed ; and therefore that corruption and bribery were less easy of detection when protected by an irresponsible ballot. In fact it was an impossibility to detect and punish bribery when thus practised, and that it is most extensively and notoriouily indulged in we have abundant evidence in the committee rooms, and in the feasting and glarinjj corruption attendant on the election of members fur many of our public institutions in England ; such as the India House, and public hospitals. In America, where the ballot has had fair trial, bribery and intimidation prevail to a most extraordinary degre.-;, and it is further found that it encourages a spirit of partisanship and a most dangerous kmd of secret political clubs, which are found strictly in accoidance with the dsctrines and liberality of Communism aid lied Republicanism. He (Mr. N.) believed that if universal suffrage were granted to-morrow, not an individual in this settlement would admit himself subject to the influence of any employer so as to interfere with his perfect liberty of voting for whom he pleased. The peoplo were to a man far too independent to be intimid .tea, aud too honourable to avail themselves of such a deceitful method. I<et them never aak for its protection until their necessities require it, and experience had better convinced them of its utility. What all wanted was penect freedom of votiug ; liberty itself, in f*ct. Publicity he would ever maintain to be the safety valve of
political power. True liberty was a noble tree, but a tender plant when young, and required a free, open and generous soil. It had been seen to fade here under the baneful shade of Nomineeum (cheers), and he sincerely hoped it might never be known by us to wither in the fatal darkness of the ballot. (Cheers.) He conscientiously believed that secret voting would be inflicting a fatal injury ort»this lettlement, and for these reasons he ihould give it his constant opposition. He therefore -would move as an An.endment : — " That open voting be substituted for secret voting." Mr. Ross begged to second the Amendment, and said it was the first time he had ever addressed such an audience. He did not consider the ballot a necessary measure, as men would be as willing to vote openly at an election, as they would be to vote at that meeting. At an election, he did not see why men should disguise their opinions; and if there were any who did not like to give open votes, why then, let i them lump it, and not vote at all.
Mr. Gabdeneb said, that although he should not hesitate at an election, were one now to occur, to say for whom he would vote, yet he had not always been in a condition to do so when at home ; and for the sake of those who might require that protection which he had once needed, and which the ballot afforded, he would support that measure. He was afraid that the ballot would be needed in this couLtry— at all events, prevention of an evil was better than cure. Mr. J. M'Donald said he had suffered a great deal in England by voting independently ; and he thought the ballot should be introduced, to prevent the franchise being abused in this colony as it was at home. Mr. Packkr had never been altogether favourable to the ballot, but Mr. Greenwood's speech had made him a decided convert to it. (Cheers.) Mr. Greenwood had said that masters at home influenced the votes of their men j and that being admitted by an opponent of the ballot, he (Mr. P.) saw no reason why the same thing should not take place here by and bye. Workmen were to a certain extent independent of masters now, but this could not last for ever ; and with the introduction of more labour and the advancement of manufactures and commerce would come intimidation, and the necessity for the ballot. (Cheer*.) Mr. Foy contended, that so far from the ballot making men hypocrites (which wa» one of the chief cries against that measure), it was open voting that caused h jpocrisy, by forcing men to vote against the dictates of their conscience. In respect of bribery, he (Mr. F ) did not see how it could exist under the ballot ; for no person would be disposed to pay away money without satisfying himself that he was receiving an adequate return— it was like buying a pig in a poke Against intimidation, also, the ballot waa a complete safeguard. But it was said bribery and intimidation would not exist here. This might be true at present; but of intimidation he would say, that although men were independent now, the time would come when many would here be subjected to the same influences as exist elsewhere— and therefore he would call for the ballot at once.
Dr. Monro said his opinions on the subject of the ballot were pretty well known by this time, and he therefore would not trespass long upon the patience of the Meeting. It was haruly necessary, he thought, to ask an assembly of Englishmen to assent to this proposition, that it was better to do a thing openly, than in secret. It therefore became the duty of those who advocated the latter course, to prove not only the evils and dangers of open voting, but also that these would be met and counteracted by the ballot-box. The arguments brought forward worthy of consideration, appeared to him only two— one being the intimidation, and the other the amicable argument : to these he should accordingly address himself, and he trusted to be able to show that they were both equally unsound. He had great difficulty in persuading himself that any man seriously believed in intimidation or undue influence here, at all events in the sense in which these things were understood at borne. There was so complete an independence of the different classes of our scciety, that he could not help regarding intimidation as entirely imaginary. The last speaker, indeed (Mr. Foy), admitted that intimidation did not exist here, but argued for the ballot because it might hereafter arise. On the same principle, he presumed, that gentleman would take a dose of salts to-night, becaube he might be afraid that he would have a fit of colic next week (Cheers), ihe fact was, that intimidation, if there were such a thing, followed the same law which governed many other things at the antipodes, and was reversed. The classes who mi<*ht have been the mtimidators at home, would here be the intimidated. If he were a sheep.farmer in England, and disposed to act unfairly, he might have a chance of being listened to if he were to endeavour to influence one of his shepherds in the exercise of his vote. But what would be the result out here ? Why, if he ventured to hint at such a thing in this country, his shepherd would discharge him on the spot. (Laughter.) And this independence of all classes was, and ought to be, the boast of the colony being the best evidenceof general abundance and facility of subsistence. But even if such a thing as intimidation existed, the ballot would prove a very questionable antid,.te. The hypocrite, it was true, would be protected, the man whose political life was a falsehood, might conceal the manner in which he voted ; but ballot would never protect the honest man who fearlessly and manfully avowed his opinions. ( Hear). An honest man would never vote on the side opposed to bis expressed opinions— the ballot is consequently no protection to him. If he wishes to use it as a shield, he must either put an absolute seal upon his mouth, or he must become dishonest, and talk like a Tory, that he may vote for a Radical with impunity. (Cheers.) In this way, it appeared to him, the ballot led to two most unfortunate results -either to the total extinction of all political spirit and discussion, or to the most unblushing hypocrisy. There was hardly any virtue that was not accompanied by some sacrifice. If intimidation in any degree existed, a man should not, on that account be deterred from doing his duty, but should rather regard the sacrifice as giving an embellishment to the exercise of the virtue. (Hear.) The amicable argument has been stroncly insisted on, but will hardly bear examination. In the first place, he would be sorry to admit that private friendship was so frail a thing as to be severed by differences of opinion on public questions ; but to show that the results would be different from those contemplated, he would put the case to the Meeting. Suppose a district of one hundred voters, for which two candidates offer themselves, Mr. A. and Mr. 8., and that one of them, having canvassed the electors, has received fiftyone pledges. The day of election comes, and this candidate, Mr. A., finds himself rejected. He is sure of this, that some one has betrayed him, but how can he know who the traitor is ? The consequence is, that he suspects the whole fifty-one, and an elector's protestations to the contrary are of no use for how can be prove that he has acted as he promised. It is childish for him to go to the poll with a ticket stuck in his hat, with " Vote for Mr. A.' ' upon it. It may still be said he voted for Mr. B. It is of no use for him to tell Mr. A., after he has lost his election, that he voted for him. He cannot Erove it, and the more he protests, the more he may be di». elieved. The consequence is, that for one or two hypocrites a great number of honest men are mistrusted, and feelings the very reverse of amicable are engendered. (Hear.) What must be the conduct of a mob at an election who wish to take an advantage of the ballot? The yellow voters must march up under blue colours, they must abuse and pelt the man they intend to vote for, they must break their real friends' heads, and drink their enemies' punch, and shout hurrah for Smith because they intend to vote for Brown. (Cheers and laughter.) These are the things which a man must have recourse to who is afraid of his real opinions being known, and who wishes to mislead those whose undue influence he is afraid of. There is but one other alternative— the most absolute and religious silence, not only before the public, but in the bosom of his family ; not only when he is sober, but when he has had a glass too much ; not only the silence of words, but of predilections and deeds. Hypocrisy is much easier than this, and is a much more efficient protection. He regretted much that *uch a proposition should have been entertained. He considered it anything but a credit to the community. There might be some excuse for it in England. There could be none here. It was entirely at variance with the spirit of free institutions. It wu a thing that a free and independent people would be ashamed of. It was unmanly, cowardly, and unEnglish, and he sincerely trusted that the Meeting would condemn it.
Mr. J. P. Robinson remarked, that he supported the proposition in favour of the ballot not on account of its secrecy merely, but because he hoped, by its aid, the people would be able to avoid the bribery, the intimidation, the gross immorality, perjury, and misery, which characterize the system of voting as at present practised in England. He had been an eye-witness of some of those proceedings connected with what is termed open voting ; and he considered them a disgrace to sny civilized community ; and he was therefore prepared to advocate the ballot, if it only tended to prevent one- half of the disgraceful practises he had alluded to. But instead of one-half, he believed it would entirely prevent all those scenes of outrage and infamy which almost invariably attach to the opposite system. It had been stated that no reasons had been given in favour of the ballot. He dis s ented from that statement, for he belisved good reasons had already been urged by the mover and seconder of the Kesoiution, as well as by levcral speakers that day; but he would venture, it time would permit, to give some additional ones, and they ihould be facts — facts which « ere undUptUcd. He would re-"' a few extracts from a work he held in his hand, which was " An Abridgement of the Evidence given bc r ore the Select Committee of the House of Commons, Appointed in 1833, to consider the most effectual Means of preventing Jmbery, Corruption, and Intimidation, in the Ei < ,j:j ol Members to serve in Parliament." [Mr. Hobinson here read a numb— ot extracts from the work alluded to, winch w».at to »how th-
great length to which bribery and intimidation was carried at elections in England a few years ago.] He (Mr. R.) was surprised to hear so much talk about the ballot being unEnglish— it was mere fudge. He would ask, were such transactions as he had read to them, r.nd which were incontrovertible facts, were they English? If so, the sooner we became un-English thebetter. (Cheers.) Talk of un-EDrii»hl it was but a few years since that bull, bear, and badgerbaiting were among the sport* which characterised Englishmen—yes, and Englishmen gentlemen too : but where were they now?— why, they had given place to advanced civilization and purer morality,- and he considered the ballot a step to improvement in the same direction. (Cheers.) He could scarcely refrain from laughing, when he looked around him at those gentlemen who talked so much ahout English and un-English, as though they were afraid to lose any of the distinctive characteristics of Englishmen, and yet, by' the ex. überance of haw on their faces, they gave rathe? evident signs of a desire to imitate a Muscovite Czar. (Cries of order.) He (Mr. R.) loved his country as well, he believed, as any one present ; but he was not unmindful that England with all her bright features, had not always behaved well towards her children. (Hear.) Many of those present were witnesses to the fact. Industry was unrepresented at home, and therefor* misrepresented ; and had it been otherwise, many of those present would have had no occasion to have left their homes for this land ; and he therefore hoped to see them possessed in this country of universal suffrage, and that protected by the ballot. (Cheers.) It was curious, also, that the ballot should be objected to, when it was a well-known fact, that at the various Club-houses in London, which consisted chiefly of members of Parliament of all parties, they should make v«» of it in the election of members. It appeared to him (Mr. It.) that its opponents wished it to be considered as a very good thing for the rich, but not for the poor, which reminded him of the story of the boy who pcriuaded his schoolfellow tho cake was dirty, in order that he might get it all to himself; and, in conclusion, he would call on the Meeting to give its assent to the proposition in favour of the ballot. (Cheer*.)
Mr. Maktin said he considered the ballot the most important question which had been brought before the Meeting. He (Mr. M.) had been a strong advocate for the ballot in England, but he would oppose its introduction here because he considered it was not needed, and.to ask for it was to throw a slur upon the character of the people. If also, votes -were taken at elections by the ballot, members might require to vote by ballot also in the passing of laws. He (Mr. M.) would therefore say, dismiss the ballot altogether, and show the people of England that you are in that independent state which you profess to be ; and this would be likely to cause a greater influx of immigration to the colony than any other step which could be taken.
Mr. Bbkcham had seen ao many evils arise in England from open voting, that lie was decidedly in favour of the ballot.
Mr. Jackson said, that it seemed to be the opinion of several persons that the ballot would deprive men of independently declaring their votes— but it would do nothing of the kind. Under the ballot voters might declare their sentiments independently if they pleased, and vote independently if they pleased.
Mr. J. P. Tatlo* said, in the last Resolution the Meeting asked the British Government to confer upon them the moit extensive franchise that had ever been enjoyed by any nation under the sun. In making that demand, they of course tacitly assert their fitness for it. By the Resolution then before the Meeting, they declare, that they were either ashamed or afraid to exercise it openly. That was simply to stultify themselves, to give themselves the lie. It was such an arrant absurdity, that he might confidently rest his opposition to the Resolution on that ground alone ; and he should be content to do so, had not his name appeared in print, coupled with a very modified dissent from the measure. As it was, he could not forbear offering a few remarks on some of the arguments used in support of it. He might commence by stating, that he had never yet, either here or elsewhere, heard so much as in attempt to defend the ballot on abstract grounds, i. c, as a thing good in itself. All admitted that it was desirable only because it was expedient, because it was necessary under cxisth-g circumstances. If, therefore, he could show that it was not necessary, the question, he imagined, was disposed of. The arguments in favour of the ballot divided themselves in the main into three heads, viz., those which refer respec. tively to intimidation, bribery, and the preservation of peace and good feeling amongst friends and neighbours. Under the first head came the relations of landlord and tenant, and of master and servant. In this country, the number of tenants was, compared with England, very small, and their relation to the landlord, very different ; there was no dependence of the one on the oth r. In the great majority of case*, the tenants were secured by leases from all influences whatsoever ; and in the few cases of yearly tenantry, a landlord must be a very enthusiastic politician indeed who would eject a good tenant for difference of opinion ; for in this country, where the average price of land was much under dSb, instead of, as in England, above dSbO, it was so easy for a tenant farmer to gratify his ambition by becoming a freeholder himself, that he would have infinite difficulty in replacing him. If a tenant was a bad one, a landlord would get quit of him, if he could, on other than political grounds - but though he might be willing to risk his reputation by intimidating his tenants, he would not sacrifice bis interest. The cases, however, in which such influence could be exercised at all, were too few to be taken into the account. If intimidation could exist here at all, it would be on the part of the yearly tenant, who might say to his landlord, to whom, the threat would be a much more serious matter, "If you do not voteas I wish you, I will throw up the farm." (Laughter). The relative position of landlord and tenant in this country was not what it was in England; it was entirely reversed. The same may be said of the relation of master and servant, as had been so justly stated by Dr. Monro. He (Mr. Taylor) appealed to all who had had any experience in this or anyother colony, whether it was not much more common for a servant to discharge his master, thin the reverse ; whether a master in this country would not make greater sacrifices to keep a good servant, than a servant would do to keep his place? It had, however, been stated, that there was one pet-ion at least who stood in the same position as a larga English landowner, representing as he diU so great a number of absenteps. He, at least, said the advocates *f the ballot, had the power of holding over the heads of his clients' tenantry in terrorem the fear of expulsion, if they did not as he wished them. The person alluded to was of course Mr. Fell. He (Mr. Taylor) should not condescend to defend him from such an imputation on personal grounds, for it would be an insult to suppose him to stand in need of it. But suppose Mr. Fell gathered to his fathers, and a man of a totally opposite character appointed to that dreaded office, was there a doubt in the mind of any one there present, that if such a person were to attempt intimidation, he would be hounded out of the country ; that any such practices on hi* part would lose him his clients, and consequently his income ; or that he would be excluded from the society of every respectable man in the settlement. In that case, as in the two former, his interest would prevent what the ballotists fear, if the desire natural to rogues as well as to honest men, of preserving a fair reputation, failed to do so. A rogue, of the stamp they were supposing, if he were not at the same time an utter fool would he extremely unlikely to run such risks as he (Mr. Taylor) had stated ;— would be the last man in the world to sacrifice his solid interests in order to support his political principles. He would be much more likely to court popularity amongst the very people who affected to fear lii« influence, as a (to him) more probable means of advancing hi* own interests. As for the question of bribery, as there could be little beyond the honour and glory of a seat in Parliament to be gained by it, he thought that in this case also a man's interest would prevent his resorting to it, simply bectuie it would be a bad investment. But again he must urge, that if they do not consider themselves proof against bribery, they had no business to ask for the franchise. As regarded the third class of arguments, " that the ballot would prevent disunion amongst friends, 5 ' he could only eipress hit deep regret that it should be thought necessary to urge such an argument. For his own part, had he a friend, or rather, on* who called himself such, who would avail himself of the ballotbox to vote against him, without shewing confidence enough in him to tell him so, he (Mr. T.) would cut him, tbonirh ho had not another in the world ; he should consider it an insult both to the feelings and to the understanding. He wai aware that the argumentum ad hominum was a somewhat nuirracious one to ute ; but that which struck him just then came so pat to the purpoje.'that he could not resist the temptation. J v r V S ?f ton bad been P erha P ß the most strenuous advocate of the ballot on the " amicable pica. He would appeal from Mr. Ssxton's argument* to Mr. Saxton himself. He was, he thought, one of the first men likely to be put in nomination at our first election ; and there was no man, he (Mr. T.) •n ns sure, more deserving «uch a compliment. Yet he told him now to hi* face, that notwithstanding his respect for him as a man, his esteem for him as a friend, snd his participation in the general feeling of gratitude towards him lor hi* great exertions for the good of the_ settlement on thU and many other occasions, he should, if he did not approve his general profession of political faith at the hustings, not only refuse him his vote, but do all else in his power to prevent hi* return to parliament. And he should do so not only in the full conviction that they should be none the worse friends for it but also with the perfect certainty that ho should be acting* precisely as he wouid cipect him to act. He should eoniidc it the very worst of compliments if he did not. Had Kr. Suxtor. or himselt the right to presume that otherr would be actuated by more unworthj fcclinga on such an occasion than
they should be T If not, again he would ask, where is the necessity for the ballot? There had been another argument for the ballot put forward repeatedly with apparent effect, Ti*., " that though they may not require the protection of the ballot themselves, they ought to secure it for their deseendents." That, of course, presupposed that they were to be less honest than they were. It would surely be their own fault if they were ; and he could certainly conceive nothing more strongly tending to produce such a falling off as the lesson they were seeking to inculcate that night, viz., the <nece*sity of veiling their honest convictions, and exercising their freeman* rights in secret, for fear of the consequences. But was it not both arrogant and childish in them to presume to legislate for posterity ? It was constituting themselves se many "finality Jacks," and saying •• thus far shall ye go, and no farther." Could they, who had come out here —all within the last ten years, many within the lost twelve months, with all the habits and prejudices of the old country — could they atsert that they were so fit to legislate for their children, as they, with a lifetimes' experience of the requirements of the colony, would be to legislate for themselves ; and when perhaps, as was most probable, the circumstances «f the colony would be very different from what they were -at present? Let them confine themselves then to the requirements of the time being — sufficient for tht day is the evil thereof He feared that some of them would think part* of hi* reasoning on that subject open to the imputation of cap-tandum-ism, as seeming to appeal to their self- love. He had no such intention, however, and moreover assured them, that if he thought they possessed so little discrimination and sound judgement a* to be led away by such influences, he for one would have nothing to say to them on the matter, for he should consider them totally unfit to sit in judgment on such important questions as thos* which had been brought before them that day. He did not appeal to their self-love, but he did appeal to their self-respect, which he maintained they forfeited if they passed the present Resolution. He entreated them not to let it goforth]tothe world that they who had so'often boasted themselves the most unanimous, orderly, peaceabl*, and moral population of all the British colonies, still required so 'degrading an intervention to protect them from one another. Above all, not to let their children have to blush for their fathers, as surely they must, if they recorded by thsir votes that night that their ;courage was not proof against intimidation, that their integrity required the safeguard of the ballot-box to keep them from bribery, and that thei • friendships were so unstable as to be shaken by an advene vote at the polling booth. (Cheers.)
Mr. Bonnington supported the ballot, and cautioned the Meeting against being won over by the specious statement* of the opponents ot the measure.
Mr. Robinson said, that while he freely admitted the chief opponents of the ballot were actuated by a sincere desire to promote the welfare of the settlement, he differed with tb«m on this measurs, which he considered highly necessary. Mr. Jollie said he considered the franchise to be a trust bestowed upon men to be used for the benefit of society, and ne was averse to any secrecy in the exercise of it.
Mr. C. Elliott wished to make some remarks on the Resolution then before the Chair, notwithstanding the lateness of the hour and the number of speakers who had already ad' dreised the Meeting on the subject. Had the question been one of less importance he would have been content to suffer it to go to the vote without troubling them with his views, but holding it, as he did, of the very highest consequence to the future peare and well-being of the colony, he could not suffer it to pass unnoticed. The chief objections to the ballot hs would place under four heads, and then address a few words to each separately :—l,: — 1, That voting, by being secret, would _ engender hypocrisy and immorality ; 2, That the ballot is not practised at elections in England, and therefore must be bad ; 3, That it would not secure the ends its friends desire, and would consequently prove a failure ; and, 4, That though the ballot may be needful in Great Britain, to give protection to voters, it is unnecessary here, throughjthe more independent position of the people. First, then, that the ballot would lead to hypocrisy and immorality. The whole strength of this objection rested on a fallacy, which assumed that a voter, by holding a public trust; was bound to declare openly his mode of exercising it. Now this would be plausible enough if the voter was accountable to others for his political acts ; but though it was true that the trust he held was a public one, and that he was bound to use it for the public good, yet the manner of its use was to be determined only by his own conscience, to which alone he was accountable ; ana to say otherwise, and demand to know a man's political opinions unless he thought proper to declare them, was a villanous tyranny, which but that it had been sanctioneil by long custom, would be scounted by all right thinking men. You say a man's political opinions belong to the world ; he (Mr. E.) would say they belonged to himself only, if he thought proper to keep them to himself, just as much as did a man's religious opinions, and no one had a right to be inquisitive as to either without violating the sacred principle of «ml and religious liberty. But to use the franchise secretly it was said a man must be an immoral character, and a hypocrite. Strange perversion of ideas thii. So hypocrisy consisted in discharging a great duty conscientiously ! and the converse must therefore necessarily be the fact, an 4to violate conscience to please one who had power to influence your actions, was to be upright and honest. But then the immorality of giving a promise, and under the secrecy of the ballot afterwards to break it— thus preferring your conscience to your word. There was no doubt of this being an evil, but ■who were the authors of the evil ? not the honest voters, but the dishonest men who sought to influence them. Evils, however, were comparative, and he (Mr. E.) held that under a strong sense of public duty to break a promise extorted through fear, was far less an evil than to keep such a promise •nd violate conscience, one man giving up to another, to whom chance had placed him under pecuniary and other obligations, the right of private judgment. The franchise was the most sacred and highest trust which would be bestowed on man, and if not used in the way he thought most beneficial to his country, the trust was most grossly abused. Next, of the un-English objection to the ballot, which, though puerile in the last degree, he (Mr. E.) was surpnied to hear constantly put forth by .men of whom better things might have been expected— a sure proof how desperately hard they were pushed for sound arguments to support their views. But what was meant by un-English ? He did not understand the term as applied to voting by ballot at elections. Was it used opprobnously, because the ballot would be a novelty to England ? Were all novelties therefore bad in themselves, and to he condemned ? A couple of centuries ago potatoes and tobacco, tea and coffee, were novelties in England, besides many other excellent things now in daily use by us, and a very senseless outcry was raised against the introduction of these articles in their day ; although as regards the one article of tobacco, now in such high favour by some of those_ who would cry down a good thing becanse of its novelty in England, he was not sure that its very general use h»d been attended with any great benefits. But there was another thing not English in its origin, but now extensively adopted in Great Britain, the effects of which were not so questionable— be meant Temperance Societies. What a splendid cry it was for a three-bottle-after.dinner man, or the poor wretch who spent bis last farthing on a dram while his family were starving, to cry down Temperance Societies as un-English, .as Yankee. And how glorious it was less than half a century ago to see men of all ranks, from the peer to the peasant, making intoxication their chief pleasure. Temperance was then most un-English. There was something so jolly, so independent, so English ia getting drunk like our fathers, who had even, as one of the speakers had told the Meeting, made drunkenness a part of their institutions. Temperance being un- English, of course, the improved moral and intellectual acquirements of the people which have sprung from it, must be un-English also, and ignorance, brutality, and every vice which intemperance gave rise to, are to be mourned as among the departed characteristics of an Englishman. A writer in an old number of the Westminster Review, however, fully answers this futile objection to the ballot^ — "Some say the ballot is not English Wh
..igluu. jjr not English, we ask? If the Ballot be good, and English is not applicable to it, then english is not applicable to a good thing:. I« the word English applicable only to bribery, suborning, false swearing, plundering, drunkenness, and dissolute conduct of every kind ? This is nonsense ; and people will no longer be gulled with nonsense." The third objection to the ballot was, that it would not serve the ends ■ought, and that it would prove a failure. The persons who used this argument were opposed altogether to their allies who charge the ballot with the sin of secrecy. The ballot •would cause secrecy, says one, and secrecy is bad. The ballot would fail in ensuring secrecy, says another, and therefore it ia worthless. These were the contradictions alway» found when a bad cause had to be upheld. But the strong point on which the latter objectors rested, was the so said failure of the ballot in America. This was generally a very safe argument, because few here were in a condition to give it a contradiction. However, one raan's>ord was as good as another's, and the ballot had its proa as wells as its con* among those who had visited the United States. There were men" howercr. whosejtestimony would always carry additional weight from the circumstanco of their known intelligence, powers of observation, and opportunities for turning these to account, and of this class of men he esteemed Mr. Justice Chapman, who, in a pamphlet whicii be some time since wrote on the "Ballot in America," says, that "English writers who state the ballot to be a failure in America, are chiefly tourists, who know little either of the country or the people." And ths same gentleman informs us, as the result of a patient inquiry on tbt spot, that th« ballot is prised by
the people of America as one of the most valuable of their institution*, " though some of the wealthy classes, who would use their wealth to coerce voters, are opposed to it, just as the wealthy classes are in England.' ' It was no argument against the Resolution to say, that the ballot was not a perfect measure, and that such things as election row* occasionally occurred in America. All measures which the ingenuity of man can devise, contained an admixture of good and evil, and the utmost that legislators could do was to select those which possessed the greatest amount of good, and were alloyed by the smallest quantity of what was bad. It was no vice in the ballot that men of strong passion* arrayed themselves under party banners, paraded the streets, and broke the heads of the opposite party when they encountered them. Such men might, if they chose, make the same parade of their opinions indulge in the same lawless practices, with secret voting as with open voting. Under the latter system, however the good and quiet citizen, deeply anxious to exercise conscientiously the sacred tract confided to him, was often subjected to the brutal insults of an incenied mob ; while, in the former if he thought proper to keep his own counsel, he might walk to the polling booth unmolested ; for where no opposition was exhibited, no offence could be given. But, said the opponents of the ballot, a man's opinions were sure to be known. He (Mr. E.) did not see this. Some men, it wasjtrue, would make their opinions their boast ; and let them do so if they pleased • others, governed by prudence, or from other motives, would keep their opinions to themselves. Besides, political warfare in this .colony would be a different thing to what it was in England, where, for instance, the great parties of Whig and Tory, Liberal and Conservative, personified antagonistic principles, on which most men were supposed to have made up their mind. But here the contests on the hustings would chiefly be personal ones, and whether a voter preferred A or B was not likely to be a matter of great notoriety. He now came to the last objection to the ballot, which assumed that in this happy colony it was not needed, owing to the superior condition of the people. So far from the ballot not being required in New Zealand, he (Mr. E.) was of opinion that it would be peculiarly needful here ; that in short without the ballot a great abuse of the electoral franchise would take place in some of the New Zealand settlements. It was well known that much of the land sold in the colony belonged to absentees, »nd that the management of these lands was in the hands of agents residing in the colony. He would instance the case of the Nelson settlement, where two-thirds of all the land was represented by one firm. Now he did not mean to insinuate that the present absentee agents would be likely to make their office a political one, and he was even willing to concede, for the sake of argument, that neither they nor thos<! who might succeed them, would ever so use their powers. Still, without the ballot, tue evil that would spring from this absentee feature of our settlements would be in full force. It could not be denied that in the relationship of landlords and tenants, the latter body must always leel a certain degree of dependence upon the former. Besides such things as seeking renewals of leases, purchasing clauses, timber licenses, and a dozen others, there was the always recurring one of rent, which even in this prosperous, this independent, this happy land, was often found by landlords to get into arrears. Now to say that one man, who alone might have more than twothirds of the tenantry of the settlement, would not possess an immense political power, was to say that human nature in this colony was different from what experience taught it to be in every other part 'of the world. When men had favours to seek, or an indulgence to gain, th*y ever did and ever would make court to the man who could grant or withhold the favours they desired, even though he should not ask for it. There was one gentleman, and one only, who had attempted fairly to argue against the ballot at the present Meeting, but even he had not been able to bringforward anything substantial against it. Mr. Taylor would not believe that tenantry could be influenced by landlords in New Zealand, because land was plentiful and teuants scarce, and that tenants could more easily get land than a landlord get tenants. Now, specious as this argument appeared, in reality it was most worthless. A tenant who had taken wild land, and by much labour and expense brought it into cultivation, was really not so independent of his landlord as Mr. Taylor seemed to think ; and it might suit the purposes of the latter very well, were he dishonestly inclined, to get rid of such tenants, and get back the improved land with all the buildings upon it, and then let it again at a much higher rate. Mr. Taylor, too, was a believer in the wonderful virtues of a voyage of 16,000 miles, which is supposed to regenerate the moral as well as the physical powers of men. Intimidation was known to be practised at nearly every election which took place in Great Britain by men who pass as good members of society, and who are not thought much, if anything the worse, for their conduct. Yet here, any one who would be guilty of such an act would be excluded from the society of every respectable man in the settlement, and be hounded out of the country, huch might be the case, but he (Mr. E.) would ask pardon when he doubted the fact. _ And it should be remembered, that while in the case of resident proprietors public opinion might be brought to bear upon them for using any act of oppression, the man who i* agent for another could always shelter himself when pushing a tenant hard, by an allusion to the instructions of his client. The whole of the opposition to the ballot reminded him of (he believed) one of Wilkie's pictures, where a country shoemaker is seen looking admiringly at the feet of a clown, who has just contrived to get on a new pair of shoes. The poor countryman, by the contortion of his features, gives evident signs that the shoes do not fit, and that they pinch him sadly across the toes. Criipian, who does not feel this, only admires the beauty of his workmanship, and would fain persuade his customer that the misfit was only n matter of imagination. So with the opponents of the ballot. In the Constitution they would make for us they persist in declaring that open voting will look best, and that it will fit us admirably. The men however who may be supposed to know best where the shoe pinches, declare, like Wilkie's countryman, that it is no fit at all, and claim the more roomy ballot to save their corns. But dismissing all other considerations of the great question of the ballot, he would rest his support of it on the broad principle of the unnccountability of one man to another for his opinions, be they political or otherwise, and the right of every one to receive a full protection in the exercise of those opinions, which, if not provided for by English law, then such should be done without delay, for shameful was the omission. (Cheers )
Mr. H. Adams said, at that late hour, he would make but very few observations upon the question before them. He had supported universal suffrage, and could not now turn round, and, by supporting the ballot, declare that they were unfit to receive the franchise. There was no doubt that bribery and corruption did exist in England to a very great extent, but it was universally admitted that there was no occasion for the ballot here now; every man declared his independence ; and there was no probability of its being required for generations, if at all. Neither did he consider the ballot an efficient remedy, as he did not believe it would prevent either bribery or intimidation. He was surprised to see the great advocates of universal suffrage supporting the ballot. He believed that if that Resolution was carried, it would do more to prevent their gettiug universal suffrage than could be done by its greatest opponents. (Cheer*.)
Mr. Rankim thought the Meeting, after asking for universal suffrage, was bound to claim the ballot as a protection for the voter.
Mr. Humphries considered it to be the duty of every father of a family to endeavour to secure for his children the most free form of Government it was possible to attain ; and the ballot was a necessary adjunct of such a Government.
On the Amendment being put, the Meeting divided, and there appeared to be about one-fourth of those present in its favour. The original Resolution was then carried by the majority, amidst much cheering.
Mr. Tbaveks said he had the honour of having been requested to propose the Sixth Resolution, which wai to be brought under the consideration of that Meeting; and, at that late hour, he should confine his observations to those parts of it which might require explanation. It was difficult to adduce arguments in favour of any specific number of years in fixing the period for the duration of Parliament! : but he would endeavour to state some reasonable grounds for selecting the period of three yean, named in the Resolution, rather than any shorter period. There were two evil effects likely to result from frequent elections, a* regards electors. In the first place, they tend to keep the people in a constant state of excitement, which is to be deprecated in a small community. It had already been seen, in the discussion of the principles embodied in the Fourth Resolution, that an attempt was successfully made to array the town and country people in antagonism to each other, by persuading the latter that the former wished to dictate to them. Now, when we see such an attempt successful on a question of public interest, we had a right to suppoie that it would be repeated when personal interests became involved. It was useless to blink the question. There waa little doubt but that the people of this settlement would come to loggerheads when they were called upon to express their opinions as to men (hear) ; and he (Mr. T.) felt assured, that all right-minded people would think it desirable that this should not occur too often. In the next place, frequent elections tend to render the people apathetic on the subject; and this was certainly a worse evil tha-i the former one. Wh*n this occurs, a great power is usurped by a few active, and, generally speaking, dishonest individuals, who merely use it for their own advantage. He (Mr. T.) had known small boroughs in England, in which an election had not created so much excitement as Punch with hit pipe and tabor ; in which tha candidate had, in fact,
only to name to a chosen few, elected by the freemen for that purpose, the sum he was prepared to pay for bis seat. It became a question of mere pounds, shillings, and pence, and not of opinions or principles. He need not comment on either of those evils. They were certainly too obvious to require any further illustration. But frequent elections were also objectionable as regards the members, and more particularly so in a new community. Those who were likely to be elected would require the experience of one session at least, before they became acquainted with the routine of business, or competent to attend to the interests of their constituents. Now, by fixing three years for the duration of the Parliaments, we secure at least two years of experienced legislation, and he could not but think this very desirable. He agreed that it was also very desirable to have the power of turning out, at short notice, a man who would not attend to the wishes of his constituency. But this may be carried too far. A certain license should be given to member*. He did not in general like to hear too decided an opinion given by any man on grave questions, unless he could be satisfied that they had previously undergone such a degree of investigation as warranted the formation of that opinion. We should, moreover, be prepared to trust in some degree to the opinion and knowledge of the man whom we select to be our representative, and not fetter him too cloiely. With respect to the powers of the Parliament, as stated in the Resolution, he need hardly say, that upon those powers hinged not only the effect of the former Resolutions, but also the future prosperity of the colony. The main causes of the prosperity of colonies in general, were said to be the plenty and cheapness of good land, and the liberty of managing their own affairs a* they liked best. This was the doctrine laid down by all writers on political economy, and this doctrine had nevtr been refuted or denied. He (Mr. T.) need not*go into any arguments to shew that upon the constitution and powers of the Parliament, ana the limitation of the prerogatives of the Crown within bounds certain and defined, all our political liberty depended. The subject was a trite one, as indeed was the whole of this Resolution ; and therefore he now begged without further remark to submit it to the Meeting: —
"6. That in the opinion of this Meeting, no Parliament for New Zealand should >it for more than three years from the return of the writs, and that no longer period than twelve calendar months should elapse between one session and the next ; that the powers of such Parliament should be absolute in all questions not affecting the prerogatives of the Crown, or being Imperial questions, but nevertheless, that such Parliament should have full power to repeal or alter any of the provisions of the Act passed for the Government of the colony, provided that any vote in favour of such repeal or alteration respectively should be passed by a majority of not less than two-thirds of the whole number of members of each House ; and that ao Act of the Parliament of New Zealand not affecting such prerogative* and Imperial questions, shall be referred to the Home Government, but that the Governor ■hall be required to declare his assent to, or dissent from, every Bill passed by the New Zealand Parliament before the close of the session in which such Bill was passed."
Seconded by Mr. Beecham.
Mr. Cawtlkt stated, that he preferred a shorter period than three years for the duration of the Parliament, and would wish to see it limited to two years. He would theretore propose as an Amendment —
" That the duration of the session of Parliament should be limited to two years, instend of three." Seconded by Mr. B. Jackson. Mr. Outkidge spoke briefly in favour of the Resolution as it stood.
Mr. J. P. Robinson said that the point on which the Amendment had been moved, as well as the whole body of the Resolutions, had been well considered by the Committee who drew them up ; and he really thought, that unless the Meeting saw good reason for supporting the Amendment it should pass the Resolution in its present state.
The Amendment was lost when put by the Chair, and th« Resolution carried by a large majority.
Mr. Nixon briefly proposed the next Resolution—
" 7- That in the opinion of this Meeting, all Bills forjr»ising and appropriating the revenue of the colony should originate in the Lower House, and that no salaries of any officers of the Colonial Government should be reserved from the control of the Parliament of New Zealand, except those of the Governor (if not, as already recommended, paid from the Treasury of the United Kingdom) and of the Judges, after the salaries of the latter have been fixed at the period of their appointment." Seconded by Mr. Odtridgb. j
Carried unanimously.
Mr. C. Elliott said that the Resolution he wished to propose was one of some importance, and was a reply to many of the remarks on the Native question made by previous speakers. In asking, as had been done in the first Resolution, for one Government for the whole of these islands, the Meeting had condemned that system of Provincial rule by which the colony would be divided into little petty Governments, the sole object of which seemed to be to override the settlers with bands of officials, and to maintain a hostof drones at the expense of the industry of the colony. Still, there was a difficulty which could not be overlooked, and the Native interests in that part of the colony, now styled the Northern Province, were of too great a magnitude to be dealt with lightly. (Hear.) The framers of these Resolutions bad felt this difficulty even while asking for a single Government. They were in a great measure ignorant of the real bearing of the native interests in the North on those of the European, and, in deference to strongly-expressed opinions of those who, by residence in, and a more intimate aquaintance with, that part of the colony, the Committee hesitated to say that, though portions of the same colony, the North and the South could with safety be put on the same footing. The residents in the South might fairly be considered capable of dealing with their own case — those in the North were equally able, no doubt, to suggest what would be best fitting for the circumstances by which they were surrounded ; and the object of the Resolution he (Mr. E.) now held was, to state to her Majesty's Government that, in the event ot the native interests of the North being considered a bar to that simple unity of Government so much to be desired, on economic as well as political grounds, then that one Government only should exist for what is now the Southern Province, where the whole number of natives at the present time is below the number of Europeans— where no great questions about land can arise between the two races, as the native title had been very generally extincuished ; and that the senseless and profligate idea of giving a Governor, and Executive and Legislative bodies to every new settlement which makes pretensions to become some day great out out of a very small beginning, should not be persevered in. (Cheer*) : —
" 8. That it is the opinion of this Meeting, that in ease the peculiar circumstances of the Province of New Ulster as at present constituted, more particularly as regards the aboriginal native population thereof, should prevent the adoption of one general Executive for the whole colony, it is expedient that there should be but one general Executive for the Province of New Munster, as at present constituted, and which should be as central possible." Seconded by Mr. Watts. Carried unanimously. Proposed by Mr. I. M. Him,, seconded by Mr. HtJKphries, and carried unanimously —
" 9. That a memorial embodying the wishes of this meet* ing on the subject of the future Government of this colony, as expressed in the Resolutions adopted by this Meeting, be forwarded, with those Resolutions to her Majesty* Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies ; that copies of such memorial be sent to such members of the Imperial Parliament as have shewn an interest in colonial questions ; and that a committee of seven person* be forthwith appointed to prepare such memorial."
Proposed by Mr. Vicx.im.UAti, seconded by Mr. Pack»> and carried unanimously—
" 10. That the following gentlemen be appointed to prepare and forward such Memorial: — Messrs. Stafford, Travers, Saxton, Elliott, Robinson, Adams, and White. On the Chairman being requested to' allow his name to be placed on the Committee, Mr. Bell said, that in respectfully declining the honour of being placed on the Committee, he trusted the Meeting would give Him credit for the motives that really actuated him. He had endeavoured to conduct the Meeting with the utmost impartiality, and bad desired that every one should have a fair opportunity of stating his views : but while it wM generally assumed that a Chairman was committed to the feeling of the Meeting over which he presided, his speech on the second Resolution must havsi shown them that he reserved to himself the fullest right of private judgment. Agreeing, as he did, with some of their Resolutions, he differed so strongly from others, that he could not, with any sincerity, be engaged in drawing up a Memorial that recommended them all : he felt assured, therefore, that his refusal would be appreciated by a Meeting which had shewn so much patient respect for the opinions of the minority.
The thank* of the Meeting wera then very cordially (riven to the Chairman for the able manner in which he had performed the arduous and prolonged duties of the day, which terminated between one and two o'clock in the morning, the Meeting having, as we have already stated, sat cince neon, with only a short interval of an hour for refreshment.
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Bibliographic details
Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume IX, 11 January 1851, Page 178
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32,346GREAT PUBLIC MEETING Nelson Examiner and New Zealand Chronicle, Volume IX, 11 January 1851, Page 178
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