PASTOR NIEMOLLER EIGHT YEARS' CAPTIVITY ENDS

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume 80, 4 August 1945, Page 7

PASTOR NIEMOLLER EIGHT YEARS' CAPTIVITY ENDS

THE GERMAN PEOPLE'S FUTURE

"AN INFLATION IN THE WORLD OF WORDS"

This interview with the great German theologian and religious leader on his release was contributed to the “Christian Century.” New York, by Dr. G. Bromley Oxnam, ol Boston, a bishop of the Methodist Episcopal Church and prominent figure in inter-church movements.

I met Martin Niemoller at the Parco Hotel in Naples on May 15, and had a two-hour conversation with him, in company with Chaplain Milton O. Beebe, chief of chaplains in the Mediterranean theatre of operations, Chaplain A. Stanley Trickttt, deputy chief, and my son Chaplain Philip H. Oxnam. Pastor Niemoller is not the tall man I had somehow imagined, but a person of medium height, very thin —no doubt because of terrible experience. I judge his suffering has been as much mental as physical. His skin is tanned, the face somewhat angular, eyes dark brown and penetrating, his hair carefully trimmed. He wore a grey suit of good material, a grey-brown tie and tan shoes. He clasped my hand with the grip of an athlete. “There is no man in Enrope I would rather meet,” I said, “You have been an inspiration to us.” “Thank you very much,” he answered, “you are very gracious.” FATE OF HIS CHILDREN Niemoller seemed very nervous, mov N ing from one position to another as he talked. I later learned the reason for this tension. Said he: “I was the personal prisoner of Hitler. It has been announced that I was liberated, but I am not sure of my present status. I was ordered to remain here for this conference. Am I a prisoner of the Americans?” I explained that word had reached me in Leghorn that he was in Naples, and I bad expressed the hope that I might have the privilege of seeing him on my return. Apparently, in conveying the message the request had been misunderstood. In a moment the real reason for his concern became clear. He had requested the authorities to notify his wife that he was safe. ‘‘That was four days ago, and no word has reached me. Such a simple thing; just a telegram would do it. My wife is twenty-eight kilometres out of Munich. Her residence is well known. Why should they refuse this? I cannot understand it. You see, I fear for my wife. How long can her mind stand this terrible strain? My oldest daughter, who is married to a German naval officer and the mother of a child, is somewhere in Germany, but we do not know where. My oldest son was killed in Pomerania. No official word reached my wife. The first she knew of it was when his keepsakes arrived in a box with a label, ‘The relics of Hans Jochen Niemoller’—a watch, a New ‘Testament, some books. My daughter Brigitte, where is she? My oldest son is dead. My next son, Heinz Hermann was wounded and listed ‘missed.’ That was in Russia. And Jan, he is ‘missed’ also in Russia. Hertha is with her mother. My youngest daughter died on December 30, 1944. And Martin, my little son, is with his mother. I must know about them. Why can this not be?” : . AMERICANS GIVE HELP Chaplain Trickett telephoned, head! quarters at once for me, and learned that the request was lying upon some desk awaiting formal action. I telephoned General Spofford immediately, and explained Pastor Niemoller’s concern. He was most considerate, and promised action. Within two hours a telegram from General Alexander was sent, requesting that information concerning Pastor Niemoller be taken to Mrs Niemoller at once, and the next day word reached the pastor, much to his relief and very great gratitude. I began the interview by stating that there were certain questions in which we were all interested. “What do you think the Christian forces of the United States can or ought to do as far as Germany is concerned?” I a’sked. His answer was typically German, thorough, lengthy, somewhat involved, but comprehensive, and moving steadily in one general direction. He speaks good English, but hesitates at times as he struggles to find the precise English term, stating it in German and then choosing the proper words from several English words that he had suggested while seeking the right one. PLEA FOR FRIENDSHIP “Yes, yes, ja,” he said, “I will try to answer, but you must remember I have been a prisoner for eight years. I have therefore not been in touch with our life, our church life, as intimately as is necessary for a clear answer to the question. My wife was allowed to see me twice each month for thirty minutes, with a Gestapo (he pronounced it ‘Jest-a-po’) guard present. She told me some of the news, but not all. If the Christians of the United States approach the Christians of the German Church in friendly fashion, I believe there is the possibility of success. I am not sure that a friendly approach to the German nation will be successful.

But in the Church we have a common faith, one Lord and Savfcur. We speak out of unities that are wider than those of the nation. As I see this, I think of what could be. Hitler was unable to eradicate the Church, ; ts faith and its practice. Beneath oppression the fires burned. He could not quench them. They were of the spirit. I think they may flame again but the flame will need tending. The Christians abroad can help.” I interrupted to ask, “Do you believe a friendly approach by government would be regarded as weakness by men imbued with Nazi phy?”

j DOUBTS OF RUSSIAN POLICY I “It is very difficult to answer,” he j said. "We do not know what the postwar occupation is to be like. It appears there will be four policies, certainly differing ideologies. If the | Russian is hard and cruel, or if he I is fricndlv and kind—and I do not know which would be worse for Geumany—that is one factor. But what of the other policies? If the Russian is considerate, I believe the people will respond. His occupation J is political, and has other ends. I j think it will mean Bolshevism where j he occupies, and if he brings ideas i to practice I fear our people will go i to Bolshevism like bees to honey. You 1 se e, much of National Socialism and Bolshevism is the same—the promises, the plans. Hitler did not put them into practice. The Russians have. Our people may find them congenial. There is an inflation in the realm of words, just as there is monetary inflation. We have had so many, many words that words lose their value, they buy nothing. If we have deeds, value goes to the words of those who act. I think, therefore, Bolshevism will spread to other, zones.” I could not tell whether Niemoller in this reference to the inflation of words, was referring to the Wilsonian promises of the last war or simply to Hitler’s promises. “What re-education is necessary? Is re-education possible?” I asked. TRUTH FOR YOUNG GERMANS “I see hope. Perhaps this is due to my long understanding of human beings. Hope lies in the group from 16 to 22 years of age. In these youth the critical faculties are still alert. They must be given honest answers to their questions until they come to believe the answers are true. The educational policy must be one of truth-telling. Truth must be told and retold, the whole story of Hitler, the truth . concerning Nazi thought and practice at home and abroad. This group may respond to truth. Youth still asks questions. But the group from 22 to 30! I do not think so. They are hopeless. They have become habituated to the Nazi way. j Little children can be won. The older people are without leadership, stunned.” I took another line for a moment and asked, “How do Germans do the brutal things done in the camps?” “What has been reported is true. Indescribable and incredible things were done. A preacher knows the reason because he knows‘“sin. These acts were like the practices of sin. A man commits adultery* He is under the conviction of conscience. Suffers remorse. But he commits the second act, and conscience dpes not speak so sharp. And finally he commits adultery without remorse. At first, those ordered to torture and kill , did so because they were afraid they would be killed if they did not. Then they became acaustomed to brutality, they killed with little feeling and finally did their terrible work as a matter of routine. The camps were worse than reported. It is like a terrible dream or, worse, the dreaming of a dream within a dream. All is still a nightmare, and you waken to disbelieve today what you know was true just the day be/ore.” NAZI INHUMANITY He went on, his voice tense: “We have been beneath a power that is unhuman.”—l think he . meant ‘inhuman.’—“We have ceased to know what human is. The policies came from this invisible, controlling inhumanity and permeated . society. It made its way into all the life of those who are human and have human desires, so that the inhuman is the only visible expression.” “How can the Nazi philosophy be eradicated? Do the German people regard this world view , as ethically wrong, or merely think it at this time has failed?” He did not grasp -the full import of the question, but described the educational system of the Nazis and showed the result of Nazi teaching, so far as character was concerned, varied. Where there was sympathy for the view and the teacher was enthusiastic, the child became saturated with the Nazi teaching. Where the teacher was not enthusiastic, he did his required duty, but the ideas did not become ruling forces in the life of the child. “I know this is true. At Dahlem, my own children experienced it. There must be many of our people who did not accept and follow. For instance, when we went away to war there was no singing, no enthusiasm. In 1914 we marched away with song. This time, no.” “We are most interested in you personally. Is there anything we can do to be helpful?” STRONGER BY SUFFERING Like a man who has memorised a table of figures, perhaps repeating out loud the recollections of the long black years in solitary confinement, he recounted his trial, rearrest “before I could see my wife or children,’’ and then the story of one prison, a camp, another, another, and so on and on until finally, “we were moved by the Gestapo. We could have escaped. It would have been simple to take the pistol of the guard. But we talked it over, and decided it would be better not to smudge our hands with their blood. We were rescued from the Gestapo by the Wehrmacht, not the Americans. They came two days later. The papers say they liberated us. . . ” i! was at this pointy that control left him. He became somewhat excited in speech, and told of his fears concerning his wife related at the beginning of this article. When assured by my telephone conversation with the general, he was soon at ease, affable and brotherly. He autographed my New Testament, signed “short snorter” bills for the chaplains, and wrote a few lines in a little notebook for my son. We left him in a happier mood, a strong man made stronger by suffering, a warrior who had moved from the war of nations to the battle 0 f the spirit, a symbol of Christian, resistance to pagan tyranny, a man who may yet become a power in Germany.”