Crucial Clauses Of Social Security Bill Passed By House

Northern Advocate, 8 September 1938, Page 8

Crucial Clauses Of Social Security Bill Passed By House

[Per Pretnf association. Copyright.'] WELLINGTON. This Day. Yesterday afternoon the house met for further conX SIBERATION OF THE SOCIAL SECURITY BILL, URGENCY BEING ACCORDED THE PASSING OF THE MEASURE. ON THE MOTION OF THE PRIME MINISTER, FIFTEEN CLAUSES WERE RAPIDLY PASSED WITH LITTLE DISCUSSION, BUT AT CLAUSE 19, WHICH DEALS WITH THE PERIOD FOR WHICH SICKNESS BENEFIT IS PAYABLE, MR. W. J. POLSON (OPPOSITION STRATFORD) SAID THE CLAUSE SET OUT 'pHAT PAYMENT WOULD LAST AS LONG AS INCAPACITY LASTED. HE SUGGESTED THAT SUCH PROVISION WOULD TEND TO PROLONG SICKNESS.

The Minister in charge of the Bill, the Hon. W. Nash, said the commission set up under the Bill had powerto transfer a recipient of benefit from one class to another. The effect of sickness on the income of a home had tq. be considered The maximum benefit for a man with a wife and nine children would be £9 a week. If th§ benefit were reduced by half after six months, the benefit would have to be supplemented.

The clause was agreed to without further discussion, as was the next clause.

Unemployment Benefit. Clause 51 was productive of discussion which lasted for practicaly the whole of the remainder of the afternoon. Referring to this clause, which deals with unemployment benefit. the Leader of the Opposition, the Hon. A. Hamilton, said it appeared that pensions were to be paid to men out of work. It meant payment without service. He asked whether the system H was to be the only means of dealing with unemployment, and also how did the Government intend to finance men who were taken from the ranks ;of the unemployed and placed on Public Works? Did it intend to carry on that work out of borrowed money? Would the Public Works Fund be used in future, instead of the Employment Promotion Fund, for paying unemployed men who were placed on Public WOrks.

would be provided with work by the Government that could not be proance might be necessary as a temporary ance might be necesary as a temporary provision between the time a man lost his job until he was again put to work. Was the Opposition suggesting that more sympathetic consideration was given to the unemployed under the previous Government than under the present one? That argument could not be supported by facts. Mr. Nash said there had not been one real word against the clause, only a lot of propaganda.

Opposition’s Attitude.

Mr. Hamilton said the Minister seemed to think that the Opposition had some difficulty over the Bill. There was not the slightest difficulty. He added that the Opposition had not the slightest doubt where they stood. There were aspects of the Bill that had been law for many years, and the Goveimment could not expect them, to vote against aspects that had been in the law for years. The Minister could have his Bill. It was his responsibility and the Government’s, and the Opposition could acept no responsibility.

Mr. W, A. Bodkin (Opposition- | Central Ptago) asked if there was to * be discrixpination between men and \ypmen. Upder the present law it $ was much more difficult for a woman to receive relief than a man. Mr. Poison: Is it intended that the | commission should take over the whole of the Unemployment Department?

Ministers Responsibility.

Mr. Nash Replies.

The Minister, in reply, said that * under the Bill the Employment Pro- | motion Act was repealed, and there r could be no duplication. Unemployment benefits would be paid under the g Social Security Bill, which set out clearly rwhat qualifications to benefit? would be, Those who did not take reasonable steps to find work, or those Whp would not take work, would be disqualified. A married woman would ' qqaljfy if the commission was satisfied her husband was unable to maintain her. Every benefit available to man would also be available to a woman. People Want It. The point is, this is a Social Security Bill, and the people of this country V, want this clause, and every other ; clause to go through,” added Mr. Nash. The Opposition, he said, was forced by the pressure of public opinion not to say too much, but every now and then there came their only resort, and there was opposition to the k Bill. That was the usual procedure, i Mr. S. G. Smith (Opposition-New Plymouth): We are not opposed to the Bill, but financial aspects must be ii, a nightmare to the Minister.

There were some parts of the Bill that were quite good, extending benefits that had been the law for years, but the financial responsibility of the Bill was the Minister’s own.

Mr. Nash reiterated that there had not yet been an argument against the actual provisions of the Bill, which were the best possible to see that those who were entitled to benefits should receive them.

The closure was applied to the clause at 5 p.m. The division on the closure was carried by 49 to 19 and the clause was passed.

Rapid progress was made with the next few clauses, and the House was discussing clause 58 at the tea adjournment. War Pensioners. The House continued consideration in committee of the Social Security Bill when it resumed at 7.30. Speaking on Clause 63 of the Bill, which contains special provisions as to war pensioners, the Minister* in charge of the Bill, the Hon. W. Nash, said the position on April 1 next would be that a returned soldier who had ten years’ residence in the Dominion would receive a benefit of 30/a week.' All returned men would receive that benefit, and if a returned soldier already had an income of say, £1 a week, from other sources, he would receive a total weekly income of £2 10/. Mr J. A. Log contended that more was being done for the returned soldier under the present Bill than had ever been done for him in any measure that had previously come before the House.

Continuing, Smith asked for a definition of “suitable” work as stipulated in the clause under discussion. He §qid that scores of men had been

squeezed off the unemployment register under the present Govern- : ment because only the officials concerned had regarded jobs available as suitable and men had not taken the fy work. People wanted the principles in the Bill, but they did not want a measure pushed through that would break down under its own weight. There should be some provision for appeal against an employment officer making an honest mistake. Mr. Bodkin reminded the Minister thqt the Bill was not the first to establish social benefits. He contended that it was really a measure consolidating numerous types of pensions that, were in existence when the Minister took office. The Minister completely confused the issue every time he was requested to give details as to the cost of the scheme, and where the

Mr W. A. Bodkin (National—Central Otago) expressed the opinion that there were thousands of returned soldiers who would be compelled co contribute to the Social Security Fund who would never derive the age benefit on attaining the age of 60 because their income precluded them from receiving such benefit. He asked if the Minister would give special consideration' of these returned men as a class.

A Touching Case,

money to pay for it was to come from. It seemed evident that the Minister hoped, if his party were successful at the next election that he would have the opportunity of amending the legislation after deluding the electors that the benefits could quite easily be afforded. Wprk to be Found. The Minister of Labour, the Hon. H. T. Armstrong, said that a person who was capable of rendering service

Mr W. J. Lyon (Government —Waitemata) said Mr Bodkin was- putting up a touching case for returned soldiers who were well off. He considered, as a returned soldier himself, that the general outlook of returned men was that if the Government had any money to spare, it should assist men receiving war veterans’ allowances. The Minister, in replying to the points raised by the Opposition, said that perhaps the provisions which

were contained in the Finance Bill, which might be introduced in the House next day, would assist in clearing up the position. A war pensioner, he said, at present received a pension amounting to 17/6 a week, but the economic pension would raise that amount to 30/- for himself, as well as £1 for his wife and 10/- for each child, in addition to the returned soldier’s disability payment. « At present, said Mr Nash, a war veteran received 20/- for himself. 15/- for his wife, and 5/ for each child, up to a maximum of £2/15/-, while under the Finance Bill he would receive 25/for himself, 15/- for his wife, and 5/for each child up to four in number, with a maximum of £3. Power to Increase. However, added the Minister, the War Pensions Boat’d had power to increase that amount to SO/- for the returned soldier himself, and £1 for his wife, with a maximum of £3/10/-.

'Provision was also made iin the Finance Bill for South African Waxveterans, added the Minister. Mr J. Hargest said that apparently the provisions were not for returned soldiers with money, but he would remind them that returned soldiers had served their country equally, and had suffered the same whether they had money or not. Mr H. M. Christie (Government— Waipawa) remarked that it was interesting to hear members of the party which had cut soldiers’ pensions and left them Lo starve on the land for years, expressing such solicitude for returned soldiers. War pensioners were very well provided for under the Bill.

The Minister, replying to an Opposition suggestion that a returned man should receive benefits at the age of 55 instead of 60, in view of their expectation of life being reduced as a result of war service, said any soldier who could qualify for the age benefit at 55 would be able to qualify for the war veterans’ allowance. If •he were permanently incapacitated, he would get relief by emergency or invalidity benefits. That being so. why x’educe the age to 55? asked Mr Nash. The clause was passed,

Medical and Hospital Benefits.

A number of clauses were rapidly passed, with little or no discussion, until Clause 76 was reached. This deals with the administration of the medical and hospital benefits, and Mr H. S. S. Kyle (Opposition—Riccarton) asked the Minister to inform the House hqw far the Government had gone towards reaching agreement with the medical profession. It was pointed out by the Minister that this aspect of the Bill could be discussed under a later clause, and the clause was passed. Commenting on the next clause, defining classes of benefits provided under the Act, the Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates (Opposition—Kaipara) asked if benefits would be provided in the case of fester children or adopted children, etc.

The Minister; Yes, they are all provided for under the Bill.

Thrust and Parry,

The clause was passed. Dealing with Clause 79. dealing with qualifications of persons entitled to claim benefits, the Hon. A. Harnil-

ton asked what was the necessity of providing medical benefits for people who did not need it. The medical service suggested what could be called a universal partial service. What was the use of taxing the community for/free service for those who could afford to pay for it themselves? Mr Hamilton thought that fully twothirds of the community would be able to pay for their own health service. It was not*social security to give free health service to a man receiving say, £IOOO a year. Mr Nash: He pays £SO a year for it.

Mr Hamilton; He pays a lot more than that. He doesn’t want the service. Continuing, he said that he thought the Minister of Health himself. if lie took ill, would prefer to call in his own doctor. The Minister of Health (the Hon. P. Fraser): I am interested in the hon. gentleman’s point of view, but I find it difficult to understand. Under this scheme everyone will have the right to select their own doctor, and the doctor will have the right ot * accept or x’eject a patient. There is complete freedom of choice given under the Bill. The only trouble will be when more people want a popular doctor than he can handle, but that difficulty exists today.

Country People’s Position. Mr Hamilton: What about people in country districts, where there is only one doctor, and they want to go to some medical man in the town? Mr Fraser: There is nothing to stop them doing so in the Bill. Continuing, he said it appeared that the Opposition wished to limit the benefits to certain incomes. Would the Opposition definitely say that, and nominate the income above which benefits would not bo received.

Medical Profession. Referring to the medical profession, he said that apart from a difference of opinion on the scope of the scheme with regard to income, there was no great difference between the views of doctors and those of the Government.

The clause was passed, and discussion was commenced on Clause 84, dealing with the scope of medical benefits.

After Midnight,

At midnight, in reply to a point raised by Mr Hamilton on Clause 84, Mr Nash said the doctors themselves v/ere to determine what special skill was, and the Minister would have some representation on an appropriate committee. That was one reason that might justify an all-in scheme for everyone. In country districts, doctors would have to be paid mileage The clause was passed. Good progress was made after the passing of Clause 84, when sections of the Bill dealing with medical benefits and pharmaceutical benefits were passed. A section covering hospital benefits was being discussed at 1 a.m.

The hospital benefit section was passed, and the House also putthrough Clause 94, dealing with maternity benefits, leaving practically only the financial section of the Bill to be dealt with. The House rose at 1.20 a.m.