Defence of Defence Expenditure

Manawatu Times, Volume 69, Issue 205, 30 August 1944, Page 8

Defence of Defence Expenditure

Highlight of Budget Debate (Per Press Association.) WELLINGTON, Aug. 29. The period occupied by formal business when tho House of Representatives met to-day was shorter than usual and the Budget debate was under way once more a few minutes after members assembled. A matter of local body interest was raised by Mr. C. M. Bowden (Wgtn. West) who gave notice to ask the Minister of Defence when it would be possible for tho Armed Forces to vacate the recreation grounds in order that citizens could have their rights in such grounds restored. Mr. Bowden pointed out that citizens had given up their grounds when military necessity demanded their use, but the delay in removing military buildings was preventing local bodies from returning or resowing their grounds for another season. „ Mr. C. H. Chapman (Wgtn. North), resuming the debate, said he would not condemn profit-sharing out of hand. Under certain circumstances it had much to commend it. The advocacy of it was a recognition of the workers ’ right to share in the profits they created, but often there was a difference of opinion as to what the employees’ share should be. Profit-sharing was sometimes used as an incentive to workers to produce still greater profits although their own share might be small. Mr. G. F. Sim (Rotorua) said when Mr. Holland spoke to the employees of the State timber mill in Rotorua they were very interested in his exposition of profit-sharing and set about to devise a scheme applicable to themselves. The scheme, which was later applied, divided the profits equally between the State and the employees. It was working very well and last month production was a record for the mill. Discussing rehabilitation, Mr. Sim said it did not end with material provision for the returned men. The problem was partly psychological. Those who because of physical injuries could not return to their old occupations must be trained adequately in bright surroundings. Others who returned injured in mind rather than body must be treated with the utmost sympathy and understanding. Medically they should be cared for by doctors and nurses who themselves had experienced overseas service. Mr. Sim said special care must be given to returning prisoners of war who becauso of their long isolation would come home in some sense strangers in a strange land. Many of them might be in a low State of mental depression on their return as a reaction to their long imprisonment. They might feel frustrated and disgruntled and some would be exposed to dangers of disillusionment. But however difficult they might be, whatever their failings, the community would not be their judges or critics but their debtors. Mr. J. W. Munro (Dunedin North) said Mr. Holland’s only real criticism of the Budget had been that moneys had been wrongly spent out of the War Expenses Account for such items as ration books. Yet another page of the same Budget showed that £13,000,000 had been transferred from the Consolidated Fund to the War Expenses Fund. This fact alone made Mr. Holiand’s criticism quite invalid. Mr. Munro also claimed that Opposition members had left the war Administration because of outside instructions. Mr. Goosman: Have you evidenco of that? Mr. Munro said he did not have evidence, but he was satisfied that it was so and asked if the Leader of the Opposition would deny it. Mr. Holland: Yes, most emphatically. Mr. Munro said if that were so the Leader of the Opposition must take full responsibility for non-cooperation in the war effort. Mr. Holland retorted that the Labour Government had to take a fair share of the blame for that. In reply to an Opposition interjection regarding the attitude of some Labour members during tho last war, Mr. Munro said a man who would not change his convictions was not worth much. He was proud of the way the Labour Cabinet had tackled tho present war effort. On the other hand the Opposition appeared to place party above the war effort. Mr. W. H. Gillespie (Hurunui) dealt with a number of rural problems and said farmers could not be blamed for changing from ■wheat production to other forms of farming such as small seeds which did not deplete the fertility of their soil. If wheat were wanted a price must be paid to farmers enabling them to meet all costs. The present subsidy on wheat benefited not only the farmer but the consumer—it kept down the price of bread. The farmers’ share in the 41b. loaf w r as only Mr. Gillespie said much woolgrowing country, particularly in the high areas, was going out of production because it could not meet present costs. One of the greatest needs of the rural community to-day was a housing scheme. Whether homes were to be provided on farms or in farming centres, better housing was vital if the drift to the towns were to be arrested and farm production maintained. wives to-day were not always* prepared to accept the drudgery of cooking for two or three single farm labourers. Accommodation therefore must be provided for the increasing number of married couples. Organised domestic help for farmers’ wives was also necessary. borne status would have to be given the girls performing this work—perhaps the glamour of a uniform would help and also set hours of duty. Mr. Gillespie said that if strict accounts were kept he believed as much would be lost on the rehabilitation oi men from the present war as from the last war. There was nothing against a few millions being written off because of rehabilitation so long as tho returned men were given a proper opportunity to re-establish themselves. The Minister of Defence (Hon. F. Jones) said there had been a great deal of talk by Opposition members about the pay of soldiers compared with civilians. The private soldier received £l3(j 17s (id a year. His rations and quarters were estimated to-be worth £sl 15s and his clothing £25, a total of £2.1(5 1.2 s Gd, or when it was considered that he paid no taxes it was an income equivalent to a civilian pay of £247 11s 6d a year. Mr. R. M. Algie: It is a pretty dangerous occupation. Mr. Jones said they all agreed on that. A married man with one child received in pay and other items £344 7s 6d which was equivalent to civilian earnings of £393 11s 6d. Mr. Jones praised manufacturers for the clothing and equipment produced for New Zealand soldiers and said it was so good that the ambition of overseas officers was to get fitted with a New Zealand battled ress. Giving details of the war expenditure Mr. J ones - said no one could question the expenditure that had been undertaken if he went fully into the question. This year the estimate

was £100,000,000, or £20,000,000 less than last year, mainly due to the reduction in the Army and some saving in the Navy where the number of vessels had been reduced. The armed forces in New Zealand totalled 46,365 men and 6589 women, and overseas there were 44,143 in Europe, 14,211 in the Pacific and 2714 in other locations, making a total of 52,954 in New Zealand and 61,068 overseas or a grand total of 114,022 in the services.

Referring to press comments on the services, Mr. Jones said these were a reflection on the men in the services—men who had given up good positions to serve their country. When he took office New Zealand’s Air Force would not have kept the enemy out of the country for two minutes, and these men had built it up to what it was to-day, and it was not fair that they should be

criticised and abused. It was true that there was a surplus in the Air Force, but those making the accusations were not aware of the facts. The Air Force had to carry a surplus, first, because aircraft were not always available when the men had finished training; secondly, because the casualty rate had been lower than expected. Then there was the cancellation of personnel for the Empire Training Scheme. It was all to the good that the men were not required for the scheme because it showed that other Dominions and Britain had also built up surpluses of trained men to be drawn on as required. During the last seven months 1925 men had been released from the Air Force and 528 had been granted temporary releases. It should be remembered that it cost some thousands of pounds to train a pilot and about £7OO to train a technicion, and then it would be understood why the Air Force was not anxious to release those men if they were likely to be required later. During tho last 12 months 2330 men had been released from the Army. Mr. Jones said the total personnel of the Air Force was 41,547. Of these 24,780 men and 3410 women were in New Zealand and the total personnel overseas was 13,315. Since tho Empire Training Scheme started New Zealand had sent 7980 men to Canada. The Air Force had done a good job in training tech nicians and there were no better technicians anywhere than New Zealanders. There was still a great deal of work to be done, particularly by the Air Force. The total of New Zealanders in the Navy was 9525. The new cruiser manned by the complement of the Achilles was in the theatre of war, as was also the Monowai, and the men of the Leander were being transferred to the Achiiles. Mr. Jones paid tribute to the Admiralty for the way it-had helped New Zealand with ships, and said the First Lord had told him that the Admiralty was glad to do so because of the way New Zealand had helped. Over 600 R.N.Z.N.V.B. men had been ready to leave for service at the outbreak of war and they were scattered all over the world. They had done a marvellous job and many had distinguished themselves. New Zealand was fortunate to have such men who were prepared to serve when and where required. Dealing with the reduction of the Army in New Zealand, Mr. Jones reminded the House how the Japanese threat had forced the Government to arm as many men as possible. There had been 75,000 men in the Army in New Zealand in 1942 and the reductions made had left a large surplus of equipment. A great deal of that had been sent overseas, but that which remained had to be maintained and the equipment returned from the Pacific had to be reconditioned. Camps had to be broken up, and until this was completed the men required for the work could not be released. In conclusion, Mr. Jones said the waT situation was very heartening. He paid tribute to the work done in the Pacific bj-" the United States forces, and said it was New Zealand’s duty to play its part alongside them. When the war was over in Europe the Allied resources would be brought to the Pacific, but until Japan was defeated and peace assured for all time New Zealanders could net relax their war effort. Mr. F. W. Doidge (Tauranga) invited the Prime Minister when he speaks in the debate to give “a plain and straightforward statement” concerning tho recent agreement with Britain. Mr. Doidge claimed that tho whole country was waiting for such a statement. The Minister of Marketing had already spoken but Refused to give anv such information. An Opposition interjector: Why not table tho agreement? Mr. Doidge said the Prime Minister had made conflicting outside the House concerning tho agreement. Tho House was tho place where he should say what ho really meant. Nobody would dare to say that Britain had made extra profit from our wartime imports from Britain. Therefore, if we considered imports alone we had no claim on Britain for additional payment. The only claim of Mr. Nash and Mr. Fraser when they went to London recently and negotiated the agreement must have been based on our exporta If the payments were not because we had been getting well below world prices for our primary products, then Britain must have given us the lump sum out of pure charity. Mr. Doidge said actually wo were getting an increased payment from Britain as an adjustment of the prices for our primary products. The farmers would therefore not take kindly to the proposal that the rest of the community should get some sort of social security at the farmers’ expense. Moreover, it was ridiculous to contend, aj a Government spokesman had done, that the additional 2d per lb. butterfat would jeopardise the whole stabilisation system. The farmers if they received payment, as they should, would use it to re-stock and renew equipment and pasturage, thus preparing for postwar opportunities. Mr. Doidge claimed that the Government was making an awful mess of rehabilitation as of everything else it touched. Rehabilitation was being buried under a mass of blueprints. Men coming back were being treated ae forced labourers and promises which had been made were not being kept. They had been promised homes but the Dominion was 60,000 homes short. The Government’s ideas of rehabilitation and regimentation "went hand in hand. Had we fought the war only to have foisted on us in perptuity those things wo set out to destroy? The longer the war went on the more German we were becoming because we were bullying people into doing things they did not want. * * Snoop the Snoopers ’ ’ Instances of pinpricking regulation?, could bo given in thousands. Tho Government was employing too man) snoopers, and he suggested that there was need for some “snooper snoops to snoop the snoopers. ’ ’ Tauranga had been visited by 40 inspectors in one week. If things got much worse the townspeople of Tauranga were likely to have a Boston tea party of their own and throw the snoopers into the sea. Mr. Doidge said the Government should go after “the big fellow” rather than persecute the small shopkeepers who were loyal, hard-working people. He asked if it were correct that there had been an inquiry into such matters as the issue of import licenses and the sale of army vehicles in Christchurch. If there had been any wartime irregularities of that nature there should be- a public inquiry.

Mr. A. G. Osborne (Oneliunga) dealt at length with the remarks of previous speakers and deprecated Opposition criticism of the Budget which, he said,

was a good one. Opposition members did not appear to be awjfte that the war was not yet won. Britain was budgeting this year for a war expenditure of £16,00*0,000 a day and that indicated that the British Government realised that there could be no cessation in the war effort.