Pensions Cuts Provoke Heated Language

Manawatu Times, Volume LV, Issue 6841, 23 April 1932, Page 6

Pensions Cuts Provoke Heated Language

Many Clauses Passed hy Narrow Margins

Allegations Against Members

Per Press Association. WELLINGTON, April 22. Sitting all night, the House of Representatives made further progress with the committee stage of tho National Expenditure Adjustment Bill. The section relating to wages and salary reductions in the Civil Service was .completed shortly after 2 a.m., and the second part of the hill, which deals with pensions, was under discussion when the House adjourned for breakfast. Eight Against Pensions Cut The Leader of the Opposition appealed to the Prime Minister to reconsider the clauses relating to pensions reductions. Mr Eraser (Labour) said the proposal to reduce pensions was a miserable piece of legislation and had never been, endorsed by tho electors. Mr A. M. Samuel (Coalition) supported Mr Eraser’s remarks and said that, if the ' ‘'"a of reducin'!" were put to the people there would be an overwhelming majority in favour of an increase rather than a reduction. Mr Forties said it was easy to say p------- should "of be cut, but the Government had to consider the country’s finances. The bill was growing every year and unless something was ‘’"•".e the whole system would break down. Mr E. Howard (Labour) said the Labour Party was in favour'of pensions being paid in full irrespective of tho country’s finances. Captain 11. M. Itushworth (Country Party) said he did not think the Prime Minister had exhausted possible avenues of raising the money recir'”''d. “Like a Dociie Worm’’ Mr H. T. ' drong (Labour) said the Prime Minister was doing as he was told. “Like a docile worm ho carries out- his clared, and when asked to withdraw said ho was under the srrmr''— : r. u . lie was praising the Prime Minister. Mr H. Atmoro (Independent) deprecated an attack on the most defenceless section of tho community and teveral Labour members added their voices to protests against the section. About 4 a.m. Mr Hargest (independent Coalition), entered the debate to say he deprecated the extravagant statements of Labour members. He would vote against the proposals to reduce pensions, but ho apologised for entering the same lobby as tho Labour members. Mr Forbes moved the closure at 4.35 a.m., after the chairman had announced that four amendments had been handed in. Labour divided the House on the closure which was applied by 3!) to 29, Clause Has Close Call Another division imme-'"-'”"" followed on an amendment to omit the subclause which provides for the reduction of old age pensions by 1/9 per week. The amendment was rejected hy 36 votes to 34, the announcement of the figures being the signal for an outburst of applause from tho Labour benches. Tho division list was as follows: FOR (34). AGAINST (36). Armstrong Ansell Atmore Bitche.ner Barnard Bodkin Black Broadfoot Carr Burnet Chapman Campbell Coleman Clinkard Connolly Coates Eraser Cob-bo Hargest He La PerrcUo Harris Dickie 11. E. Holland Endear.Howard ELeld Jor.es Forbes Jordan Hamilton Langstonc Hawke Lee Healy McCombs Tfenare McKeen 11. Holland Mason .lull Munro Kyle J. A. Nash Linklater W. Nash Lye O’Brien ■ AlrDougail Parry McLeod Richards McSkirn ming Rushworth MacMilla n Samuel Makitanara Schramm Kgata Semple Poison Stallworthy Ransom Sullivan Reid Sykes Stuart "Wright To Tomo Williams Young PAIRS. JTor — Against— Savage Murdoch Wilkinson Stewart Gross Irregularity As soon as the figures were announced Mr J. McCombs (Labour) raised a point of order on what he described as a gross irregularity. The member for Wairau had entered the Chamber and had asked the member for Southern Maori to vote in the “ayes” lobby against the amendment. The Standing Orders provided that a member about to vote could not he influenced by another member. The member for Wairau, Mr E. P. Healy (Coalition) said the member for Southern Maori had not been, well and had asked him to record his vote. The arrangement had been made that all members were to vote on the last division and he had gone to Mr Makitanara to tell him that he must go to the lobby. Ho had not "mentioned which lobby. Mr Somple (Labour): You ought to be ashamed of yourself. " Mr Walter Nash (Labour) said he had seen the member for Wairau ask Mr Makitanara to vote and Mr Alalritanara had said he wanted to vote for the pensions. Amid general Labour uproar Mr J. Lee could be heard exclaiming: “Scandalous.” Mr J. A. Nash (Coalition) said he heard Mr Healy ask Mr Makitanara. to vote, but nothing had been said to induce him to go to any particular lobby. “I am sorry this has occurred,” Mr

Makitanara said. “I voted with the Ayes and I make no bones about it. [ won’t bo coerced by anyone.” Tho Chairman of Committees: Will the lion, gentleman assure me that liis name has been recorded in the previous divisions by someone else. Mr Makitanara: Oh, yes, several. Mr Atmore (Independent) said that it was perfectly truo that the member for Wairau had said, “Come and vote over here.” The Chairman said it was very improper for any member to try and influence another in his vote, but the Committee had tho word of tho member for Southern Maori that his vote had been recorded according to his own wishes. More Allegations of Influence A further division was taken on ■ the sub-clause governing the amount which may he earned by pensioners. An amendment to delete this portion was defeated by 40 votes to 29. Mr F. Langstono (Labour) rose to a point of order. He said that on an earlier division, Messrs Wright and Stallworthy had voted in the “Noes” lobby and he alleged they had intended to voto similarly on the division just taken, hut Mr J. A. Nash had approached them and taken them over to the “Ayes” lobby. Mr Stallworthy: Don’t bo silly. Mr Semple: Tho dirty dogs. Mr Langstonc submitted that- it had been a question of influencing votes. There had been somethin? at work to Miese members to change their opinions. Mr J. O’Brien (Westland) said he had hear'l Mr J. A. Nash call out to Mr Wright. Mr Nash said there ha 9 been some misconception as to what the vote was being taken on. “I want to say at once that Mr Langsto.ne did not say I had asked other members to go and vote in the other lobby. He said he heard mo call Mr Wright. That is quite true. I told Mr Wright there was a motion against a -reduction in the earning power of old age pensioners. I said I was not voting with tho “Noes” o,n this occasion and ho and Mr Stalin'"-'’-- '••une to the other l"b----by. ’’ Mr Wright said Mr Nash was correct in saying lie had not used any influence - 1 - nI L lie had simply discussed the issue involved. Mr Stallwn-' 1 '" said no one in the House would influence him. It was true he had been in tho “Noes” lobby when the bells rang, but ho had had no intention of staying there. .Mr Nash had not called him. IDs name had not been mentioned. Mr Stallworthy alleged that, on returning from the lobby lie had heard Mr Jordan say to other members: “Oh,, the member for Eden! well stick it into him.” Mr Stallworthy said he considered it the deliberate intention of the Labour Party to do a dirty trick. The Leader of the Opposition submitted that this allegation was wholly unparliamentary and Mr Stallworthy withdrew it, adding, “I will, content myself with thinking what X am not allowed to say.” Mr Jordan: “I want to say very emphatically that what the member for Eden says is untrue.” Mr Jordan declared that what he had said was that he was surprised at the member for Eden. Mr Eraser said it was open to the gravest suspicion when one member endeavoured to explain his own attitude to another member. Mr J. A. Nash: The doors were not locked. The Chairman of Committees said Mr Nash had said his conversation with Mr Wright had taken -kcc before the locking of the doors. Botli other members concerned had said they wero capable of making up their minds. lie thereupon ruled that no irregularity had taken place. Mr- O’Brien immediately moved to report progress in order to obtain the Speaker’s ruling. “I submit,” he said, “that this is too grave for us to go any further without obtaining Mr Speaker’s ruling.” The motion was challenged amidst Labour cries of “Scandalous,” and was defeated by 44 to 24. Divisions were taken on the two other amendments to the old age pensions clause. The sub-clause limiting flic amount of income that might be earned by the pensioner and liis wife was retained by 43 to 39, and the sub-clausc relating to tho computation of pensions in cases where the applicants are in receipt of war pensions was retained by 40 to 31. The whole clause was then adopted by 38 to 34. The Hardship Clause The Leader of the Onnosition (Mr Holland) moved an amendment to the hardship clause attached" to the first section of tho Bill. He said the clause as it stood was nebulous because it simply said the regulations might provide for the adjustment of anomalies or hardships. He wished to. make it mandator »--■■' r>nt that “The regulations shall provide for tho adjustment of anomalies an I for the relief of cases of hardship. Mr Forbes said there were bound to bo numbers of anomalies but tho clause would givo the Governor-General every authority so there was no need for the amendment. Tli amendment was defeated by 43 to 26, and tho clause passed on the voices. A division was taken on tho clause which provides for tho provisions of the Bill to apply to tho Cook Islands and Samoa. The clause was retained by 45 votes to 26. Widows’ Pensions Reduced The clause reducing widows’ pensions was then discussed, the closure being applied at 7.40 a.m. by 43 to 26. An amendment moved by Mr Barnard (Labour) to delete the subclause reducing the widows’ pensions, from 10s to 9s per week in respect of each child was defeated by 39 to 29. Tlic subclause relating to the income of .widow's was retained by 39. to 29

and tho whole clause was adopted by 39 to 30. Tho House adjourned at 8.10 till 9.30. Miners’ Pensions Tho clauses relating to tlie pensions of miners and miners’ widow's wero debated when tho House resumed at 9.30. Air Parry (Labour) appealed to the Government to drop the clause which limited the duration of miners’ widows’ pension to two years after widowhood. Ho said some of tho widows would within six months boeomo absolutely destituto and it would be impossible for them to obtain employment._ Mr Coates gave an undertaking to have the question of tho elimination of widows’ pensions reviewed next session. Mr G. C. Black (Independent) pointed out that tho revenue from tho gold duty had been earmarked for a fund for payment of miners’ phthisis and miners’ widows’ pensions. Tho Leader of the Opposition appealed to the Government to drop all. the clauses relating to miners’ pensions. Tho amount of tho saving involved would not be very large, but would mean a great deal to tho people con’cerned. lie submitted that the mining industry should have bc-cu. caiicu uno.ni to pay pensions to those whose lives had been wrecked in the industry. “Tho Angels Would Weep” Mr Samuel said no or.c who had lived in a mining electorate would be a party to reducing those pensions. It would bo a crime over which tlie angels would weep if women who had toiled devotedly for those who had been broken on the industrial wheel wero deprived of their means of livelihood. Mr Parry said there were only 409 widows affected by the clause. "The closure was applied to the debate on tho miners’ pension reductions, and divisions were then taken on the clause and amendments. The latter consisted of attempts in turn to veto each reduction. The proposed amendments wero each defeated by 41 votes to 33, and the clause was adopted by the same majority. Coalitionists Vote With Labour Messrs Atmore, Black, Harris, J. A. Nash, Itushworth, Samuel, Stallworthy, Sykes, Wilkinson and Wright voted with Labour in opposing tho clause. Mr Parry moved to amend the clause relating to miners’ widows’ ponsions with the object of retaining the pension subject to the ten per cent, reduction already imposed by the House in connection with other pensions. Decision Reviewed Next Session Mr Coates repeated his assurance that the question of miners’ widows’ pensions would be reviewed next session when legislation would bo introduced with a view to giving satisfaction to those affected. Mr Semple: Will you give a guarantee that the pension will be restored. Mr Coates: I am not altogether in a position to givo a guarantee. Members raised the question as to the exact meaning of Mr Coates’s undertaking, expressing the fear that circumstances might prevent the pension from being restored. Mr Coates promised that legislation would bo introduced to enable the matter to be reconsidered. On his motion the closure was applied at 1.5 p.m. and tho clausa was passed on a division, after Mr Parry’s amendment had been defeated by 42 to 31.